Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Othin]

39 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Ah, I wasn't aware of their roles in the game so I didn't know if they'd be a possibility.  

Assuming they're going to add bird and beast Laguz, I would bet dragon Laguz would be separate.  They might just avoid adding Laguz altogether, though.

Dragon laguz could be handled just fine with the same breath weapons as other dragons, so I don't see a need to do anything different. Bird and beast laguz would need new weapons, though. If they add bird/beast laguz, one way to do that would be to add a "strike" weapon type like with breath, where the skills can be inherited regardless of color, just with physical damage and probably a fist icon. Infantry strike users could use claws (including both beast laguz and the beast shifters from Awakening/Fates) while flying strike users could use talons.

[Lushen]

How long do you think they can prolong the introduction of Zacharias?

Been waiting to see him since day 1.

[ruruo]

I think I will vainly chuck more orbs into colourless in the hopes for a male summer unit until a get one. Seasonal art is more scarce to me than skills ._.  *sigh* If none appear, I will 5* a Saizo out of pure rage. Such a shame because love some Sonya and Mathilda :<

After summer, judging by my luck, I will have to save orbs until Halloween. Phantom of the Opera Camus please! Really want Summer and Halloween stuff, since they're my favourite holidays :'D

[shadowofchaos]

1 hour ago, Lushen said:

Ah, I wasn't aware of their roles in the game so I didn't know if they'd be a possibility.  

Assuming they're going to add bird and beast Laguz, I would bet dragon Laguz would be separate.  They might just avoid adding Laguz altogether, though.

I mean the system is there. No need to complicate it. Just have them be just as the dragon shapeshifters we have now. Just make dragons red to be weak to blue thunder users, beasts green to be weak to red tome fire users, and birds blue to be weak to wind users.

[shadowofchaos]

1 hour ago, Lushen said:

Ah, I wasn't aware of their roles in the game so I didn't know if they'd be a possibility.  

Assuming they're going to add bird and beast Laguz, I would bet dragon Laguz would be separate.  They might just avoid adding Laguz altogether, though.

I mean the system is there. No need to complicate it. Just have them be just as the dragon shapeshifters we have now. Just make dragons red to be weak to blue thunder users, beasts green to be weak to red tome fire users, and birds blue to be weak to wind users.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 minute ago, shadowofchaos said:

I mean the system is there. No need to complicate it. Just have them be just as the dragon shapeshifters we have now. Just make dragons red to be weak to blue thunder users, beasts green to be weak to red tome fire users, and birds blue to be weak to wind users.

The system isn't "there" until they've crafted an entirely new weapon type for the non-dragon laguz and other beast shapeshifters. And it's anybody's guess how they do it. A set of colorless claws/talons, a set of colored beaststone type weapons even though that's not canon for Laguz. We've never seen them introduce a new weapon class in heroes, so the possibility that we'll never see Laguz or beaststone users can't be ignored in my imo.

[shadowofchaos]

3 minutes ago, Gustavos said:

The system isn't "there" until they've crafted an entirely new weapon type for the non-dragon laguz and other beast shapeshifters. And it's anybody's guess how they do it. A set of colorless claws/talons, a set of colored beaststone type weapons even though that's not canon for Laguz. We've never seen them introduce a new weapon class in heroes, so the possibility that we'll never see Laguz or beaststone users can't be ignored in my imo.

It doesn't have to be any new "type".

From a programming perspective, each of the "dragonstones" are of the same type. Literally just add 3 more enums in the weapon type array and copy the attribute (color).

The animations for each character are what they have to make that are "new".

They can do what you said... But what reason is there to do so?

Edited July 12, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Lushen]

I think the biggest issue is dragonstones are referenced OFTEN in the game.  Laguz don't use dragonstones.

A new system for the Laguz would be beneficial if it were added 3-5 months from now when the game starts to get stale again.  IS has already done crazy updates (like tempest, chain challenge, etc.) to shake up the game when people start getting bored.

I don't see how them adding laguz as normal units could be anything but disappointing to FEH fans who have played PoR and RD.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Lushen

[shadowofchaos]

11 minutes ago, Lushen said:

I think the biggest issue is dragonstones are referenced OFTEN in the game.  Laguz don't use dragonstones.

A new system for the Laguz would be beneficial if it were added 3-5 months from now when the game starts to get stale again.  IS has already done crazy updates (like tempest, chain challenge, etc.) to shake up the game when people start getting bored.

I don't see how them adding laguz as normal units could be anything but disappointing to FEH fans who have played PoR and RD.

I do apologize if I'm coming off as rude to anyone or making myself sound like I know the game more.

But anyways, the game, Fire Emblem Heroes, treats *dragons* as the unit type with that color and weapon.

Their item... The skill, such as light breath, etc do not affect them.

Hacking the game shows that by morphing a lance flier into Xander before he was released... Let him fly and have the 2 move into any terrain.

Archers were also super effective against him. And had weapon triangle disadvantage DESPITE Seigfried being equipped.

 

There is no need to code new "weapon types" for Laguz to complicate things in order to implement them. Doing so for the benefit of staying true to lore or fanservice to FE9/FE10 players? That's kind of an odd justification.

Edited July 12, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Lushen]

18 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

I do apologize if I'm coming off as rude to anyone or making myself sound like I know the game more.

But anyways, the game, Fire Emblem Heroes, treats *dragons* as the unit type with that color and weapon.

Their item... The skill, such as light breath, etc do not affect them.

Hacking the game shows that by morphing a lance flier into Xander before he was released... Let him fly and have the 2 move into any terrain.

Archers were also super effective against him. And had weapon triangle disadvantage DESPITE Seigfried being equipped.

 

There is no need to code new "weapon types" for Laguz to complicate things in order to implement them. Doing so for the benefit of staying true to lore or fanservice to FE9/FE10 players? That's kind of an odd justification.

Don't worry, you're really not sounding rude at all xD

It is a bit odd that they call dragon's weapons "Breath" but they reference "Dragonstones" in some other skills (Like buff skills that buff 'dragonstone users').  Additionally, this runs into the issue that they would have to update a lot of the skills in the game.  For example, in the new banner, dark aura buffs all melee units but it specifically lists out swords/axes/...etc.  If they added a new melee class, they would have to edit that skill's description and functionality.  This would be very easy to do, but it's important to note the only time the devs have edited something is to bugfix (this isn't really a bug) - they have not done anything like this before.  At the same time, they also mention swords but laguz have claws.  If there were only one Laguz, it would be a decent oversight.  But the fact is, if they add laguz, they're going to have to revamp a lot of skill descriptions regardless of how they do it.  

This is why I think they will just never add Laguz.  There are plenty of units they can choose from already, including a multitude of manakete.  And someone (I believe it was Ice_Dragon <actually I think it was eclipse?> who mentioned this) said that the devs have never played PoR or Radiant Dawn so they probably think the Beorc roster is plenty.  I'm definitely not EXPECTING them to put Laguz in the game. I'm optimistic, but I see the logic behind never implementing them.  If they do add them, however, I expect a major update, they can't just slide them in as sword units when they use claws.

Game developers can always modify the engine, they do it all the time for major DLC updates.  It may not be possible for hackers to mod in a new weapon type, but it's certainly possible for the developers.  They would never add a new color, obviously, but they could add new weapon types onto existing colors.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Lushen

[Zapp Branniglenn]

13 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

There is no need to code new "weapon types" for Laguz to complicate things in order to implement them. Doing so for the benefit of staying true to lore or fanservice to FE9/FE10 players? That's kind of an odd justification.

Is it odd justification? Laguz do not use weapons to fight. I'm certain IS is torn between making a new weapon class to accommodate them, making them physical damage dealing manaketes, or not putting them in the game at all. You say there is no dilemna.

[Othin]

References to "dragonstones" might need to be edited to "dragon breath" to include dragon laguz, but that's not too big of a deal.

Lumping beast/bird laguz under that weapon type wouldn't make sense, though. It'd mean having them do magic damage and be weak to Falchion and having their weapon icon be dragon breath.

[Kaden]

1 hour ago, Lushen said:

How long do you think they can prolong the introduction of Zacharias?

Been waiting to see him since day 1.

Plot twist: the guy everyone thinks is Clive at the end of the new banner trailers? That's actually Zacharias. Dun dun dun! :P

[Kaden]

2 hours ago, Lushen said:

How long do you think they can prolong the introduction of Zacharias?

Been waiting to see him since day 1.

Plot twist: the guy everyone thinks is Clive at the end of the new banner trailers? That's actually Zacharias. Dun dun dun! :P

Plot twist #2: Double post. Dun. Dun. Duuuuuuh.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Kaden

[wizzard of soz]

yeah i don't agree with having the laguz be types like red or green, etc. sure it covers the weakness against wind magic and fire, but also introduces other weaknesses...against swords and axes, which doesn't make sense...also, fliers in Heroes apparently aren't supposed to be weak to wind magic except for Excalibur, so i wonder if there would be specific red tomes that would be effective against beasts. i can see bird laguz just being colourless fliers, and then yeah make a new type for beasts, lump dragon laguz with manaketes. but also colourless melee units seem kind of OP though...only weak to Litrraven and having the stats of a melee unit instead of ranged? well, we'll see. i definitely think we will see laguz added to the game, regardless. i wonder if they'll do something to try to incorporate a transformation gauge, it could be neat, or maybe really pointless and tedious. 

i want Nailah ;;

[Lushen]

11 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Plot twist: the guy everyone thinks is Clive at the end of the new banner trailers? That's actually Zacharias. Dun dun dun! :P

I would uninstall.

36 minutes ago, Othin said:

References to "dragonstones" might need to be edited to "dragon breath" to include dragon laguz, but that's not too big of a deal.

Lumping beast/bird laguz under that weapon type wouldn't make sense, though. It'd mean having them do magic damage and be weak to Falchion and having their weapon icon be dragon breath.

Still the issue of claws being called swords.  They would have to redo a ton of skill descriptions.  Yea, you can't really lump them into dragons.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Lushen

[r_n]

Just give them beast stones. Yes yes  I know Laguz don't use beast stones, whatever, handwave it away as them using beast stones to always get them to transform or whatever. Like laguz gems. Even throw in a silly line like Bow Faye got with "here, use these stones so you can transform without waiting". Shoot you could even have a weapon variant called "Laguz Gem" to give different set of bonuses compared with Beast Stone, & Beast Rune and whatever other gems they want to make up for variety.

Just have them use the weapon triangle too. It's not like Ninian was weak to axes and resisted swords in her game. Or that dragon stones had any real weapon triangle in place. I think we'll be ok if Muriam is weak against lances or what have you.

 

They are certainly not going to arbitrarily leave out an entire type of unit, especially ones so prominent in their games and full of popular characters. 

[Lushen]

9 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Plot twist: the guy everyone thinks is Clive at the end of the new banner trailers? That's actually Zacharias. Dun dun dun! :P

I would uninstall.

[r_n]

Just give them beast stones. Yes yes  I know Laguz don't use beast stones, whatever, handwave it away as them using beast stones to always get them to transform or whatever. Like laguz gems. Even throw in a silly line like Bow Faye got with "here, use these stones so you can transform without waiting". Shoot you could even have a weapon variant called "Laguz Gem" to give different set of bonuses compared with Beast Stone, & Beast Rune and whatever other gems they want to make up for variety.

Just have them use the weapon triangle too. It's not like Ninian was weak to axes and resisted swords in her game. Or that dragon stones had any real weapon triangle in place. I think we'll be ok if Muriam is weak against lances or what have you.

 

They are certainly not going to arbitrarily leave out an entire type of unit, especially ones so prominent in their games and full of popular characters. 

[Lushen]

6 minutes ago, r_n said:

They are certainly not going to arbitrarily leave out an entire type of unit, especially ones so prominent in their games and full of popular characters. 

Radiant dawn has about as many playable characters as any other game, even if you exclude the Laguz

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_characters_in_Fire_Emblem:_Radiant_Dawn

There are 791 total characters listed on CYL, and that's no even including all characters that could be added (like Greil) and alternate skins.  We don't even have 150 yet, and that's including a huge bulk we got at the beginning and duplicates.

They could ignore Laguz for over 5 years, which point the game won't be relevant enough to add a new class.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Lushen

[wizzard of soz]

4 minutes ago, r_n said:

Just have them use the weapon triangle too. It's not like Ninian was weak to axes and resisted swords in her game.

oh yeah. i don't know why that didn't occur to me, you right. 

i think they probably will go with your method since it's the easiest and most efficient. i still kinda wish there would be something that differentiated stone users from laguz, aside from their type (bird, beast).

[r_n]

2 minutes ago, Lushen said:

Radiant dawn has about as many playable characters as any other game, even if you exclude the Laguz

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_characters_in_Fire_Emblem:_Radiant_Dawn

There are 791 total characters listed on CYL, and that's no even including all characters that could be added (like Greil) and alternate skins.  We don't even have 150 yet, and that's including a huge bulk we got at the beginning and duplicates.

They could ignore Laguz for over 5 years, which point the game won't be relevant enough to add a new class.

yes that's a lot of other characters. yes they could ignore them if they wanted to. They could ignore a lot of things, actually!

But that doesn't mean they will. It's so arbitrary. And to think they'd do it because they'd be too complex is ridiculous. If they're going to be lazy at all, it will probably be in their implementation rather (ie: using beast stones, giving them affinity, whatever) than going "lets not ever add them"

surely we can both agree that the laguz, many of which made it into the top 200 for whatever that's worth, have a better shot at this than any of the padding in this list like Layla or random one chapter general from fe5 #5

[Lushen]

4 minutes ago, r_n said:

But that doesn't mean they will. It's so arbitrary. And to think they'd do it because they'd be too complex is ridiculous. If they're going to be lazy at all, it will probably be in their implementation rather (ie: using beast stones, giving them affinity, whatever) than going "lets not ever add them"

I always imagined it being more procrastinating.  

"Oh hey boss how about we add Laguz now?"
"Nah we'll do it later."

5 years later

"Hey boss, Laguz?"
"At this point, what would we have to gain?"

[Ice Dragon]

54 minutes ago, Othin said:

References to "dragonstones" might need to be edited to "dragon breath" to include dragon laguz, but that's not too big of a deal.

Lumping beast/bird laguz under that weapon type wouldn't make sense, though. It'd mean having them do magic damage and be weak to Falchion and having their weapon icon be dragon breath.

Red and black dragon tribe units dealt physical damage in FE9 and FE10. Making dragon tribe units red strike and deal physical damage isn't particularly out of the ordinary. You'd just have Nasir being weird, but that's probably okay.

 

27 minutes ago, wizzard of soz said:

yeah i don't agree with having the laguz be types like red or green, etc. sure it covers the weakness against wind magic and fire, but also introduces other weaknesses...against swords and axes, which doesn't make sense...also, fliers in Heroes apparently aren't supposed to be weak to wind magic except for Excalibur, so i wonder if there would be specific red tomes that would be effective against beasts. i can see bird laguz just being colourless fliers, and then yeah make a new type for beasts, lump dragon laguz with manaketes. but also colourless melee units seem kind of OP though...only weak to Litrraven and having the stats of a melee unit instead of ranged? well, we'll see. i definitely think we will see laguz added to the game, regardless. i wonder if they'll do something to try to incorporate a transformation gauge, it could be neat, or maybe really pointless and tedious. 

i want Nailah ;;

Thunder magic isn't weak to axes in any of the main games, either. Heroes doesn't need to be 100% accurate to the source material in the same way that DLC characters from other games don't need to 100% accurate to how they behaved in their original games. Heroes has its own rules, and there's nothing saying the characters shouldn't follow them.

[r_n]

8 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Red and black dragon tribe units dealt physical damage in FE9 and FE10. Making dragon tribe units red strike and deal physical damage isn't particularly out of the ordinary. You'd just have Nasir being weird, but that's probably okay.

Dont normal dragon stone usage keep flipflopping too? Like they do physical in FE1/3, 2/15 and Awakening (I think?), but magic in 6,8 and 14