Skill Inheritance Discussion.

[MaskedAmpharos]

@BANRYU Given that Nino generally doesn't need a proc bc she can ORKO everything (especially once she gets into Desperation range), how do you feel about a defensive proc on her instead, like Sacred Cowl? She'll be especially squishy with Life and Death, so perhaps she'd benefit from a proc that would let her tank a ranged hit on enemy phase and finish them off the next turn if she can't ORKO straight away?

[eclipse]

13 hours ago, Vaximillian said:

Alright, I've a 4⋆ +Atk, –Def Gordin and I'm going to make him even better.

Death Blow as an A passive and Moonbow as a special are probably obvious, right? What about Threaten Spd as a C? Or will some other Threaten be better on him?

Oh, and I guess I should tag @eclipse so that she knows I'm caring about her boy.

I don't like Moonbow on Gordin.  If you're going with Death Blow, you can either use Dragonic Aura or Dragon Fang.

13 hours ago, Arcanite said:

She's not the only one on here with a Gordin y'know!

Threaten speed is unnecessary in trying to prevent the inevitable, he's slow, he has a brave bow, if he gets hit, he gets doubled, he dies. 

Threaten could work if he's hiding behind something or if he's just out of range. I like spur attack on my Gordin because he sticks very close to my units anyway! Really any hone/spur on him is good especially if you want to pair him with Nino, Tharja and the like

Edit: now that I think of it, where is she? haven't seen her around. Probably engaging her social life unlike me   ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I went out and hurt myself on Rising Fire Hawk.  Probably shouldn't attempt 14s without proper adult supervision. . .or attempt to unlock Triple Counter.

In other words, I was making awful decisions.

23 minutes ago, Zero1000 said:

Would Effie, Sharena and Abel benefit from a Heavy Spear? I have a lot of Ests and Fiorinas, and I'm thinking who to give their weapons to.

Probably not, no, and definitely not.  Of the three:

- Effie's not going to use the effect of that spear unless she's either in a mirror match or against Hector (and she's screwed if it's the latter).  Otherwise, it's a direct nerf to her attack power.
- Sharena's spear comes with a nifty aura
- Abel's schtick is to run up and stab something in the face twice.  If you have a +Spd variant and want a gimmick build, you're better off with any of the other generic lances (Silver for power, Killer for cooldown reduction).

On 3/29/2017 at 6:45 AM, BANRYU said:

Yeah dude these are great, thanks for your work!

Actually, my suggestion to you-- and to everyone else in this thread, really-- would be to go put these builds up on the FE Heroes wiki, which now has a 'Builds' tab for each character.

I've contribbed the Sophia and Camilla builds that I was discussing with folks earlier in the thread (...well... no one except eclipse acknowledged the sophia ones but whatever lol) as well as standard Nino and a!Tiki stuff. I highly recommend people go put their builds up on the wiki, since SFF has no formal system for easily viewing and retrieving these great analyses that everyone's doing. 

TBH I actually highly considered making a thread to announce/urge this, but wasn't sure if there'd be enough discussion to warrant it ;; @eclipse, thoughts on that? would that be a pointless thread or could I do that as a means of getting ppl's attention / spreading the word to other people who keep writing these analyses?

I need to see if Jyo is free.  I've suggested something, and if it gets implemented, it'll solve the problem nicely.

Edited March 31, 2017 by eclipse

[Arcanite]

1 minute ago, eclipse said:

I went out and hurt myself on Rising Fire Hawk.  Probably shouldn't attempt 14s without proper adult supervision. . .or attempt to unlock Triple Counter.

In other words, I was making awful decisions.

At least you're not dead!

[eclipse]

Just now, Arcanite said:

At least you're not dead!

I feel it.  And yes, I unlocked Triple Counter.  Now I'm sore.

---

I see questions in here, but it looks like you guys got to them, so thanks everyone.  Less things for me to review!

[!Skydiver]

I would use Death Blow+ raven tome on +ATK Spring Camilla. It allows her to 1 shot almost every blue and colorless including + RES Robin, Linde and Takumi.
She also packs a punch on red units, like 20 damage on +3 RES Lucina. For B slot maybe G tomebreaker to counter Nino?
Note that this build is mostly offensive focusing on OHKO due to her low SPD and RES, and on enemy phase, even Linde can counter her.

[Vaximillian]

18 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I don't like Moonbow on Gordin.  If you're going with Death Blow, you can either use Dragonic Aura or Dragon Fang.

Now if only Anna were kind enough to give me Hawkeye. Two Hawkeyes, actually. One for Death Blow, another for Threaten Atk. Anna, please.

Why Draconic Aura though? What is generally considered a sufficient Atk threshold for Draconic Aura to overtake other options?

[BANRYU]

17 minutes ago, eclipse said:

I need to see if Jyo is free.  I've suggested something, and if it gets implemented, it'll solve the problem nicely.

Cool man, cool~ Sounds like it's probably for the best that I was lazy and didn't get around to making the 'hey ppl come submit your builds to the FEH wiki' thread I was gonna do yet lol.

32 minutes ago, MaskedAmpharos said:

@BANRYU Given that Nino generally doesn't need a proc bc she can ORKO everything (especially once she gets into Desperation range), how do you feel about a defensive proc on her instead, like Sacred Cowl? She'll be especially squishy with Life and Death, so perhaps she'd benefit from a proc that would let her tank a ranged hit on enemy phase and finish them off the next turn if she can't ORKO straight away?

nahh man from the calcs I've run Nino would rather just pile on more muscle to nuke things harder-- the absolute least damage she can do with max buffs and Draconic Aura up is 20 damage to Roy and 16 damage to Sanaki (both res-neutral)... and that's actually not terrible considering that's through Triangle Adept. It could actually be enough to finish them off if they're highly weakened and Nino has nothing better to do in theory.

Compare that to her defenses and we're looking at a measly 21 in Res and paper-thin 14 in Def for neutral Life and Death Nino-- and in the case of her 'best' nature, -Def, that's dropping down even further to 11. I don't think either of those stats want to be taking hits, and if you're running her with Fury in place of LaD, her res is sitting a bit better at 29 neutral, but there's still the matter of her pitiful HP stat and just how quickly that ticks down from Fury recoil.

Nahh man IMHO Nino is like the attack-form Deoxys of this game (for those that know Pokemon stuff ;; )-- she wants to nuke stuff and nuke it hard, but doesn't want to be taking hits like ever. That's my preference ofc; I'm positive there are Nino builds that are perfectly feasible with more defensive setups to let her take some magic hits pretty well at least, but they don't pack the destructive power that the hyper-offensive builds can muster. She's better off sticking to that IMO. 

[AW91]

Hello!

What skills would be perfect on:

- Hector

- Lucina

- Azura / Ninian

Thanks!

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, Vaximillian said:

Now if only Anna were kind enough to give me Hawkeye. Two Hawkeyes, actually. One for Death Blow, another for Threaten Atk. Anna, please.

Why Draconic Aura though? What is generally considered a sufficient Atk threshold for Draconic Aura to overtake other options?

Dragonic Aura is 30% of your Atk.  Moonbow is -30% of your opponent's Def/Res.  Your Atk will almost always be higher than your opponent's Defense - in other words, Moonbow will only shine if Gordin's trying to burst down a literal wall of a unit.

1 minute ago, AW91 said:

Hello!

What skills would be perfect on:

- Hector

- Lucina

- Azura / Ninian

Thanks!

Who else is on the team?  What do you want Lucina to do?  Do you expect your dancers to see combat?  What other skills does your team have?

[AW91]

Hej!

@eclipse - this is my team: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6tzltMx1OAZcFJ2d1RyUVFvY2c

Only Hector has inherite "Pivot" from 3* Cherche

 

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, AW91 said:

Hej!

@eclipse - this is my team: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6tzltMx1OAZcFJ2d1RyUVFvY2c

Only Hector has inherite "Pivot" from 3* Cherche

 

Can Eldigan fill in for Lucina?  Reinhardt's Goad Cavalry will turn him into an absolute beast.

Again, depending on the answer, the skills will change. I'd run Azura over Ninian, though.

[AW91]

@eclipse:

Please see here Eldigan´s Stats = https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6tzltMx1OAZc1Q2UkNIazZBZmc

So you mean Eldigan and Reinhard together in a team? I everytime thought, that he isn´t so good, because he lose everytime hp when attacking/getting attacked.

Normally I use: Azura + Hector + Lucina + Reinhard(+Def / - HP)

I use Azura as dancer and as fighter(but don´t really want to - she hit´s not hard enough).

Lucina is fine cause she can selfheal every 3 rounds and that´s a nice skill in hard battles.

No other skills, except "Pivot" - I don´t have inherite other skills yet

[eclipse]

Just now, AW91 said:

@eclipse:

Please see here Eldigan´s Stats = https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6tzltMx1OAZc1Q2UkNIazZBZmc

So you mean Eldigan and Reinhard together in a team? I everytime thought, that he isn´t so good, because he lose everytime hp when attacking/getting attacked.

Normally I use: Azura + Hector + Lucina + Reinhard(+Def / - HP)

I use Azura as dancer and as fighter(but don´t really want to - she hit´s not hard enough).

Lucina is fine cause she can selfheal every 3 rounds and that´s a nice skill in hard battles.

No other skills, except "Pivot" - I don´t have inherite other skills yet

Reinhardt gets Goad Cavalry, which gives Eldigan +4 to Atk/Spd when they're within two squares of each other.  Eldigan already has a very impressive Atk stat and a decent Spd one, so the stat boost will help him to kill even more things.

The problem is that Lucina's okay, but doesn't really synergize as well with everyone else. . .so I'll dump what I had in mind.

Azura - Her job is to dance, so I don't really care about her special skill. . .but if you absolutely insist on something, I'd consider Sacred Cowl for survivability.  B slot can be something like Renewal to make sure she stays alive, or Wings of Mercy so that she can dance for wounded allies.  C slot should be changed to Hone Atk.

Eldigan - He needs Swap for this to work (either swap with Reinhardt to get him out of danger, or with Hector to move him up a space).  If you really don't like Fury, something like Spd +3 will work in the A slot instead.  I don't really care for Lunge, and would prefer something like Escape Route instead (so he can run away at a moment's notice) or Seal Defense (because no one in their right mind will attack Eldigan at melee range).  C slot should be something like Threaten Spd, so that anything that survives him will become fodder on the next phase.

Reinhardt - Should work with Shove, to help move anyone else along.  Give him Death Blow and replace Vantage with Wings of Mercy, because a roving Reinhardt is something to be feared.

[AW91]

@eclipse - big thanks to you!

I only know, that my Eldigan has not good +/- ... But if he´s ok, then it sounds fine!

I need to get the skillfodder then

Thanks for the answer(s)!

[eclipse]

1 minute ago, AW91 said:

@eclipse - big thanks to you!

I only know, that my Eldigan has not good +/- ... But if he´s ok, then it sounds fine!

I need to get the skillfodder then

Thanks for the answer(s)!

No problem!

I totally forgot about Hector, so uhhh. . .he REALLY appreciates Wings of Mercy!

[AW91]

What would be a perfect Eldigan?

I already have "Pivot" - is it not good as "Wings of Mercy" is? -> Good point is, I have Palla... But not lvled yet and only 3*

@eclipse - thanks!

Edited March 31, 2017 by AW91

[eclipse]

Just now, AW91 said:

What would be a perfect Eldigan?

I already have "Pivot" - is it not good as "Wings of Mercy" is?

@eclipse - thanks!

PIvot helps with the initial stages.  Wings of Mercy is when the enemy team is split, and you need to move Hector across the map RIGHT NOW.

Perfect Eldigan IMO is +Atk/-HP, with a close runner-up being +Spd/-HP.  +Atk is for OHKO shenanigans, while +Spd makes him more defensive (with Fury, it bumps him up to a very nice 31 Spd, which stops things like +Spd Young Tiki from doubling him - and with Reinhardt's Goad Cavalry, it's 35 Spd, which stops most major threats from doubling, while he doubles things like neutral Young Tiki).

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

You can actually just run an Eldigan with only Fury and he'll be mostly fine lol.

Eldigan really benefits from Threaten Def or Threaten Spd. The latter is a better pick since he's kinda slow. Pivot is hard to use with Eldigan, since despite his high stats, his longevity is limited with Fury.

Escape Route actually works fairly well with Eldigan because of Fury, I think.

[AW91]

Thanks @eclipse and @SatsumaFSoysoy

So Pivot is not the first thing, that Hector should have(then I need to bring up Palla I guess, to have Wings of Mercy ready), right?

I won´t sacrifice my Ninian for Eldigan, I think.

But first step is to lvl up Eldigan to 40 to team him up together with Azura and Hector and Reinhard and see, how good this team will work(I can´t do the last 3 storymissions on extreme, maybe with that team it´s possible?).

I hate it, that my Eldigan is neither perfect nor nearly perfect

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by AW91

[mcsilas]

Trying to think of a set for Oboro..

How's this?

Brave Lance+ 

Swap, Bonfire/Escutcheon/Sacred Cowl

A- Death Blow/Fury

B- Swordbreaker/Lancebreaker/Renewal

C- Threaten (Atk/Def/Spd)/Fortify Attack/Speed

She's kind of like an infantry version of an armour with nice defense, but poor Speed. Too bad she can't get Wary Fighter.

-Bonfire is to make use her defense stat. Otherwise, if you want to be more defensive, Escutcheon when against non-Reds and Sacred Cowl to lessen archer damage? (Not sure how much it will protect her from her Lord Takumi's arrows...she'll gets doubled a lot though).

-Swap is a call back to her Fates appearance and goes well with her physical tanking ability/if using a Fortify skill.

-Death blow (or Swift Sparrow if you can) to ramp up damage on player phase with the Brave Lance. Fury also works as a general stat increase.

-Renewal works with Fury and for the defensive route in general. Swordbreaker may sound like overkill, but with her Speed she'll need as much chance to double as she can. Otherwise, maybe Lancebreaker for general weapon coverage when tanking. Wings of Mercy is also generally good option for clutch Swap plays.

-Threaten or Fortify of your choice for general team support.

Brave Lance does lower her Speed even more, but having Life and Death lowers her tanking niche. Sapphire Lance makes her an even more specialised battler against Reds and at least reduces red mage damage a bit. Would Killer Lance (for Skill activation) or Carrot Lance be worth it for more defensive sets?

[Pimalai]

I'm thinking on a build for Spring Lucina (-Spd+HP). I have kind of an optimal setup, but I don't have access to all these skills:

• Blàrblade+ (I'd need to promote an Odin to 5*... too expensive). This will have good sinergy with Eirika.
• Ardent Sacrifice (no problem, I have an spare Florina).
• Moonbow (another Odin... and 2k feathers; hell, I'm using Moonbow on everything xD).
• Keep Swift Sparrow 2
• Desperation 3 (I need to sacrifice a 4* Shanna, but it may worth it)
• Threaten Res 3 for added spice, but I can only sacrifice a 4* Oboro.

Buffs from Eirika and Desperation could turn this Lucina in a killing machine. BnB of the build is Desperation and Ardent Sacrifice, may I just wait and make this perfect or should I find easier alternatives?

Substitutes for Moonbow? Glimmer maybe? Iceberg?

 

 

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Pimalai

[Raven]

12 hours ago, Raven said:

This is a spreadsheet of every duplicate I have right now:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ddAZXbjs5ZicoV_WtJnu4-CrIJBShUXlNDfpHHuAse4/edit?usp=sharing

I'm looking for a good setup for a number of my 5-star units I've yet to give new skills to, namely Takumi, Camilla (both vanilla and Spring variants), Male Robin, Hinoka, Catria, Tharja, Lyn, Spring Chrom, and Spring Lucina.

I've already given Fury 2 and Fortify Cavalry from a 4* Jagen to my Spring Xander, but he could still use a good B skill and Special.

Those who enjoy theorycrafting with such resources and would like to help out, any suggestions?

Well I have more time today so I can have a proper look for myself. Since my Spring Lucina is the most gifted of the newest units, I'll be looking to prioritise her and give her first pick of my skills crop.

Considerations for my +Atk -Res Spring Lucina:
Assist skill:
Rally Speed is fine, but I'm looking for something with more map impact, something like Smite, Draw Back, Reposition or Swap to help her or others escape a bad situation or put the team in a favourable position
Special skill:
Obviously something that increases her damage output. Luna, Draconic Aura, Moonbow, etc. However, taking Moonbow from Odin would mean R Tomebreaker 3 going to waste.
B skill:
Seal Res is fine I suppose, but I'm looking to use Lucina to delete enemies from the map in one turn and keep her out of trouble during enemy phase unless I'm sure she can survive. She won't need Breaker skills since she's going to have speed buffs to hopefully be able to double even the fastest of red units.
Desperation 2 - Good for nuking enemies without taking further damage.
Wings of Mercy 1 - Situational, but could be clutch to fly in and smite/switch/draw back an ally in danger.
C skill:
Threaten Atk 3 - useful for enemy phase survivability should they happen to not die, and/or if there are more enemies around that could attack Lucina or others next phase.
Spur Res 3 - +4 Res to allies, although this is more suited towards units with more bulk and survivability. More situational than Threaten Atk 3.

Points you agree/disagree with? What would you suggest?

[Pimalai]

Wow, we almost crossed posts on Spring Lucina.

I see you settle with desperation 2, it might be enough. The Special skill can be anything, your route is safer than mine for the glass cannon she is.

Draconic Aura is good I think. It's just slower than Moonbow, but I do't have that many Odins to waste.

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Pimalai

[MrSmokestack]

2 minutes ago, Raven said:

Well I have more time today so I can have a proper look for myself. Since my Spring Lucina is the most gifted of the newest units, I'll be looking to prioritise her and give her first pick of my skills crop.

Considerations for my +Atk -Res Spring Lucina:
Assist skill:
Rally Speed is fine, but I'm looking for something with more map impact, something like Smite, Draw Back, Reposition or Swap to help her or others escape a bad situation or put the team in a favourable position
Special skill:
Obviously something that increases her damage output. Luna, Draconic Aura, Moonbow, etc. However, taking Moonbow from Odin would mean R Tomebreaker 3 going to waste.
B skill:
Seal Res is fine I suppose, but I'm looking to use Lucina to delete enemies from the map in one turn and keep her out of trouble during enemy phase unless I'm sure she can survive. She won't need Breaker skills since she's going to have speed buffs to hopefully be able to double even the fastest of red units.
Desperation 2 - Good for nuking enemies without taking further damage.
Wings of Mercy 1 - Situational, but could be clutch to fly in and smite/switch/draw back an ally in danger.
C skill:
Threaten Atk 3 - useful for enemy phase survivability should they happen to not die, and/or if there are more enemies around that could attack Lucina or others next phase.
Spur Res 3 - +4 Res to allies, although this is more suited towards units with more bulk and survivability. More situational than Threaten Atk 3.

Points you agree/disagree with? What would you suggest?

How does a Blárblade set sound? She has a +Atk roll so she wouldn't be outclassed by, say, Linde as much. Compared to Blue Egg, Blárblade has only 2 less Mt. It does give a CD+1 penalty, which makes Moonbow proc less. Luna would be better in that case.

Rally skills are fine for ranged units, since they can sit behind the front line and buff allies whenever they aren't needed. Rally Attack is less dependent on your team composition than Rally Speed, so that would make a good replacement. Draw Back is a better option if you must have a positioning skill, especially with a Dancer.

Fury / Life and Death seem like the go-to's for the A skill, especially with Desperation as you mentioned. Fury in particular lets you proc Desperation after two attacks, assuming she takes no damage on the counter. The default Swift Sparrow is fine though.

Breaker skills may or may not be worth using on Blade sets, since with buffs you can simply OHKO without fear of a counter, and Desperation seems more optimal on blade sets to begin with. Wings of Mercy is difficult to use with ranged units but the AI makes good use of it on arena defense--send in a ranged, trade, then Wings the melee in and finish them off. It also forces your teammates to get attacked,  which isn't always possible.

C Skill is pretty flexible, but Threaten Res / Hone Atk / Hone Spd come to mind. Threaten Atk 3 is more situational than Spur Res 3 since the debuff applies after combat occurs, assuming you are trading with a ranged unit. Again, avoiding enemy phase whenever possible is the hallmark of the blade strategy since you can KO the units closest to your team with relative safety.

[Raven]

22 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

How does a Blárblade set sound? She has a +Atk roll so she wouldn't be outclassed by, say, Linde as much. Compared to Blue Egg, Blárblade has only 2 less Mt. It does give a CD+1 penalty, which makes Moonbow proc less. Luna would be better in that case.

Rally skills are fine for ranged units, since they can sit behind the front line and buff allies whenever they aren't needed. Rally Attack is less dependent on your team composition than Rally Speed, so that would make a good replacement. Draw Back is a better option if you must have a positioning skill, especially with a Dancer.

Fury / Life and Death seem like the go-to's for the A skill, especially with Desperation as you mentioned. Fury in particular lets you proc Desperation after two attacks, assuming she takes no damage on the counter. The default Swift Sparrow is fine though.

Breaker skills may or may not be worth using on Blade sets, since with buffs you can simply OHKO without fear of a counter, and Desperation seems more optimal on blade sets to begin with. Wings of Mercy is difficult to use with ranged units but the AI makes good use of it on arena defense--send in a ranged, trade, then Wings the melee in and finish them off. It also forces your teammates to get attacked,  which isn't always possible.

C Skill is pretty flexible, but Threaten Res / Hone Atk / Hone Spd come to mind. Threaten Atk 3 is more situational than Spur Res 3 since the debuff applies after combat occurs, assuming you are trading with a ranged unit. Again, avoiding enemy phase whenever possible is the hallmark of the blade strategy since you can KO the units closest to your team with relative safety.

I'd possibly go with Blarblade, since I also usually run Eirika in my team anyway. Any idea if its power would increase with the Swift Sparrow Atk/Spd+4 buffs?