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14 hours ago, Phillius the Crestfallen said:

I guess it depends on what you consider to be 'acceptable'. Generally speaking, 4/4/4 is servicable enough and only requires skill gems. Not counting mats for ascension of course, but I'd say it's a worthwhile investment unless you're desperate for the mats.

Pretty much this. As you say 4/4/4 and max. Ascension itself aren't too much trouble really.
The amount of mats for Iskandar, Gil and Scathach alone is killing me. It's not the Gold or even Silver stuff it's the pure quantity of bronze mats that kills me. I don't even have the Hero Proofs to do Emiya's 2nd Ascension anymore and that's not something I was expecting to say.

That alone makes me very hesitant to raise any more Golds than the ones I set as my priority.

3 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

We have lotteries, event shops, hunting quests, and guaranteed mat drops from quests depending on what servants you’ve obtained.

That's the thing though not every event has the mats you need and they are capped at 20 each. That is not that much if you think about it. For Ascension it's plenty I agree but that's not the hard part about raising your Servants.
Why can't Hunting Quests be a weekly thing?

3 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

Well over half the units in my box are MAX Ascended, completely disregarding the fact that one of them is Lv. 100 and two (with a third on the way) are 10/10/10. It just takes good resource management.

I might not have a Level 100 Servant but I have 3 Servants at 10/10/10 and 5 are just waiting for more lores. If I combine my 2nd Archive with my main box I have roughly half of them max. ascended with the rest at their Interlude requirement. Btw. I'm sure I started much later than you (Okeanos, pretty much).
Tell me more about resource management, mongrel.

3 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

Also when does “raising” servants mean “maxing” them? There are not even enough Lores in the game yet to level every skill past

What's the point of stopping halfway? It's not like I'm leaving them at base, they all get leveled up to their Interlude requirements at least.
Plus I'm not entirely oblivous about lores being relatively exclusive resources (though I will not get the lore back I used on Medea's 1st skill, RIP).

So yeah, just because they are in my 2nd Archive doesn't mean they are staying at Level 1. I enjoy FGO's story and that includes all of the Interludes I want to do (that Stheno interlude is still taunting me from my days as a beginner).

3 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

Pretty much everyone else is an afterthought to me at this point.

Yet again you forget about Lancer Alter.

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3 hours ago, The Priest said:

It's not the Gold or even Silver stuff it's the pure quantity of bronze mats that kills me

That is also what happens to me... and I consider myself quite an ok farmer.

Bones are my problem most of the time. Tamamo + Sca + couple others ate over 100 of those just by themselves. Scary

Silver can be an issue too - feathers and seeds are needed in rather large quantities aswell, watch out

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1 minute ago, QKumber said:

That is also what happens to me... and I consider myself quite an ok farmer.

Bones are my problem most of the time. Tamamo + Sca + couple others ate over 100 of those just by themselves. Scary

Silver can be an issue too - feathers and seeds are needed in rather large quantities aswell, watch out

bones are indeed an issue when it comes to waifus..

Spoiler

especially the anti-heroes or ones that have lore related to shit like dun scaith or hell.

 

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8 hours ago, Czarpy said:

you fraud I thought you mentioned Ruler Martha and li shu wen before.

isn't the only one on that list that's getting a banner this year summer altria?

Saberfaces come before everything else. That and Ruler Martha and Archer Artoria share a banner.

And yeah. Okita gets rereleased with GUDAGUDA Meiji Ishin next year while MHXA is from Valentine’s and Rider Alter is during Dead Heat Summer Escape!

7 hours ago, The Priest said:

Btw. I'm sure I started much later than you (Okeanos, pretty much).

I was pretty lazy with resources until Christmas to be honest.

You missed a lore boo-hoo

7 hours ago, The Priest said:

 (that Stheno interlude is still taunting me from my days as a beginner).

DO IT

7 hours ago, The Priest said:

Yet again you forget about Lancer Alter.

She is free from the Pick Your SR Event. But I’m getting Helena or Gil so whatever

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6 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

Saberfaces come before everything else. That and Ruler Martha and Archer Artoria share a banner.

And yeah. Okita gets rereleased with GUDAGUDA Meiji Ishin next year while MHXA is from Valentine’s and Rider Alter is during Dead Heat Summer Escape!

I was pretty lazy with resources until Christmas to be honest.

You missed a lore boo-hoo

DO IT

She is free from the Pick Your SR Event. But I’m getting Helena or Gil so whatever

is MHX Alter any good? I know you're not gonna roll for Vanilla Jeanne you damn fraud. 

oh I'm definately rolling the next gudaguda event. Hijikata looks like fun.

 

 

when do we get the pick your SR event.

I'm probably gonna have to choose between Saberlot, Caster Gil, Gorgon, Nitocris, or Li Shu Wen. (Depending on who I need the most for gameplay reasons)

 now that I think about it, my waifus seem to have really revealing clothing (Raikou, Summer Servants, Nitocris) or some level of insanity (Brynhildr, Nightingale)

i swear the only sane ones seem to be mata hari and possibly carmilla.

 

Spoiler

 

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It seems I been having crazy luck with CE drops. Here's me proofs.

mCLSpyj.png
J8ML1DI.png
* * * * * * * * * *
I got enough to MLB His Rightful Place (I had two CE drop in one run) and still have enough to outfit an entire party for spares. I wonder if I'll get another drop so I can MLB another copy. // I also got that Volumen Hydragyrum off of a ticket. I guess all of my luck goes to Craft Essences (or MHX).

As for the event itself, I've been taking it pretty casually ever since I finished the main story. All I got left to do mission-wise is do x/10 runs of the Church, and after that it it just casually grinding for QP. A part of me wanted to get more EXP for Iri, but I guess I'll wait for another event or something.
* * * * * * * * * *
For upcoming (and current) Servants, here's my current wishlist (not counting welfares).

Spoiler

Saber:
Arthur Pendragon (Prototype): While OG Saber is nice and all, I want Arthur as a dude. Also, the Prototype stuff interests me.
Attila: I mostly want Attila because of the artist huke, who I know from working on the Steins;Gate Visual Novels.
Siegfried: I got a Grailed 85/90 Georgios. Let's go Dragon Hunting!
Honorable Mentions: Nero Claudis, Saber Alter, Mordred, Okita

Archer
Artoria (Archer): I hear she is OP. While I already have Nobu as my wave clearer (and spent some grails on her), maybe Archer Artoria is better.
Ishtar: All right, I've been charmed by Ishtar's appearance. I love her design! It's a shame she'll likely be competing against Merlin for Quartz...
Honorable Mentions: EMIYA, EMIYA Alter, Gilgamesh, Asagami Fujino

Lancer
Ereshkigal: I find Eresh to be a bit adorable, even though all I know about her is from fan depictions on the FGO Reddit.
Scáthach: Originally one of the servants I was gunning for when I first started FGO, nowadays getting her is more of a bonus. Still, I think she fairs fairly well as a ST NP Lancer.
Tamamo no Mae (Lancer): I keep hearing she's pretty good, so that's about it. I find the Tamamo artworks to be either hit or miss, and this doesn't do much for me.
Honorable Mentions: Artoria Lancer, Kiyohime Lancer, Medusa Lily

Rider
Iskander: It is Iskander. I need not say more. (Shame I won't be getting him this time round. Perhaps I am not worthy, at least not yet.)
Artoria Alter (Rider): Just look at this NP. While I personally am indifferent to the maid service, her first and third ascensions look pretty neat. It just sucks there's only one Rider slot (since I grailed Georgios and Santa Alter)...

Caster
Waver: It's Waver, and he is an excellent support because of all the NP Charges. It would be nice to have one of my own instead of constantly relying on supports.
Illya: I watched Prism Illya and am a fan of Illya in general.  I found Prism Illya to be an enjoyable series once I got past the fanservice.
Merlin: OP OP OP OP OP OP OP OP OP OP

Assassin
King Hassan: A part of it is due to the Gramps comics on Reddit, and another part is because he looks bad***!
Kiritsugu: I loved Fate/Zero, and he seems to have a pretty fun skillset.
Katō Danzō: I know absolutely nothing of this character, but I really like the design!

Berserker
Vlad: I want him so I can do some Art NP shenanigans with Tamamo Mae. Right now all I really got is Medea...
Cu Alter: A damage machine that can survive and a possible addition of the Cu Chu Train? Of course I would want him!
MHX Alter: She looks cool. I also happened to get her good counterpart, so I wonder if luck will net me several copies of her without much effort.
Honorable Mentions: Beowulf, Nightingale, Nobu Zerker

Extra
Gorgon: I am a fan of normal Medusa and could use an AoE Avenger since I got Jalter.
Salieri: This guy looks AMAZING. I don't care if he is just 3*, is probably a story lock, and won't be arriving her for quite some time. One day he shall join my roster!
Honorable Mentions: Jeanne d'Arc, Dantes

* * * * *
Yeah, it's a tall order to get all of them and I do not expect to. It's hard enough trying to raise the guys I do have.

If I had to make a top 3, it would probably be Artoria Alter (Rider), Ishtar, and Merlin. If I couldn't pick Merlin (only chose him because he's OP), then the substitute will be King Hassan.

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3 hours ago, Czarpy said:

is MHX Alter any good? I know you're not gonna roll for Vanilla Jeanne you damn fraud. 

oh I'm definately rolling the next gudaguda event. Hijikata looks like fun.

 

 

when do we get the pick your SR event.

I'm probably gonna have to choose between Saberlot, Caster Gil, Gorgon, Nitocris, or Li Shu Wen. (Depending on who I need the most for gameplay reasons)

 now that I think about it, my waifus seem to have really revealing clothing (Raikou, Summer Servants, Nitocris) or some level of insanity (Brynhildr, Nightingale)

i swear the only sane ones seem to be mata hari and possibly carmilla.

 

  Hide contents

 

MHX Alter is okay, I should know since she was my third SSR in JP.  She gets better after her SQ (which comes out not long after her release) but is still considered inferior to Heracles.  She is very cute, though.

The free pick SR is for the second anniversary event, so a year from June.  Personally I picked Artoria Lancer Alter since at the time I was really lacking in Lancer class Servants (and then immediately afterwards I got Summer Raikou who is considered one of the best Lancers in the game).

49 minutes ago, Sire said:

It seems I been having crazy luck with CE drops. Here's me proofs.


* * * * * * * * * *
I got enough to MLB His Rightful Place (I had two CE drop in one run) and still have enough to outfit an entire party for spares. I wonder if I'll get another drop so I can MLB another copy. // I also got that Volumen Hydragyrum off of a ticket. I guess all of my luck goes to Craft Essences (or MHX).

As for the event itself, I've been taking it pretty casually ever since I finished the main story. All I got left to do mission-wise is do x/10 runs of the Church, and after that it it just casually grinding for QP. A part of me wanted to get more EXP for Iri, but I guess I'll wait for another event or something.
* * * * * * * * * *
For upcoming (and current) Servants, here's my current wishlist (not counting welfares).

  Hide contents

 

Archer
Artoria (Archer): I hear she is OP. While I already have Nobu as my wave clearer (and spent some grails on her), maybe Archer Artoria is better.
Ishtar: All right, I've been charmed by Ishtar's appearance. I love her design! It's a shame she'll likely be competing against Merlin for Quartz...
Honorable Mentions: EMIYA, EMIYA Alter, Gilgamesh, Asagami Fujino

Artoria Archer and Nobu are good at different things.  Nobu is good for clearing waves while Artoria Archer is better for bosses.

IIRC Ishtar and Merlin gachas are at different times.  Merlin is during one of the Babylon gachas (which will be in October/November IIRC) and Ishtar is during the Christmas gacha (late December)

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My wish list is pretty short.  It consists of:

- A Saber that can hit back
- A Lancer that can hit back
- Another Caster that can hit back
- Amakusa for mass buff removal

I'm a very easy girl to please.

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Well as long as we're making wishlists, I'm only really looking for two servants at most per class.

Spoiler

Saber:
-Mordred

Archer:
-Atalanta

Lancer:
-Ereshkigal
-Karna

Rider:
-Summer Salter
-Quetzalcoatl

Assassin:
-Summer Scathach
-Semiramis

Caster:
-Merlin
-Lostbelt Caster

Berserker:
-Atalanta Alter (I actually did manage to get her in JP, so yay me

Extra:
-Meltlilith

 

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8 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

You missed a lore boo-hoo

I missed 3 lores in total (Nero Fest, Moon Goddess, 1 in Halloween). Taunt me properly, mongrel.

8 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

DO IT

She is a Rare Prism and I didn't ascend to her Interlude requirements. Beginner mistake.

---

1 hour ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Call me crazy but from all that we know so far, Sieg is the one that is most interesting in gameplay

Unless he has good skills he will be pretty bad with that Atk stat.

Spoiler

 

Chiron and Achilles are permanent.

Apparently this event is a Part 1-1.5 event, considering you only need to finish Orleans to participate (the CM shows that they are back in Chaldea in their normal uniforms). Seems like they planned to release this one quite a bit earlier or they aren't ready to release an event under the Lostbelt conditions.

Edited by The Priest
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7 minutes ago, The Priest said:

I missed 3 lores in total. Taunt me properly, mongrel.

She is a pile of ashes and I didn't ascend to her Interlude requirements. Beginner mistake.

---

Unless he has good skills we will be pretty bad with that Atk stat.

  Hide contents

 

Chiron and Achilles are permanent.

Apparently this event is a Part 1-1.5 event, considering you only need to finish Orleans to participate (the CM shows that they are back in Chaldea in their normal uniforms). Seems like they planned to release this one quite a bit earlier or they aren't ready to release an event under the Lostbelt conditions.

I made that post before the skill is known

 

 

Achilles:

Basically Kintoki Rider with Leonidas Taunt, garden variety "protection of Arrows but worse", and his 1st is a 3 turn Quick with Crit buff(simmilar to Parvati 1st and Kintoki Rider 1st).

His NP is Overcharge Quick buff AOE NP Quick that lasts 3 turns

 

Chiron:

QQAAB deck, Arts NP. The NP is ST, reduces Crit chance, and buff cleanse before it its. Also its a laser beam summoned from the sky that hit crotch

Skillset is: Eye of the Mind True(the def buff one), Hans Critical buff with Instinct tied on it, and TARGETTED 3 CARD BUFF THAT LASTS 3 TURN AND HAVE 6 CD

So he's basically EMIYA

 

Sieg is Galvanism, Arts Mana Burst and Special Damage

 

Overall i think all 3 of them are interesting but it should be obvious which ones i'm most hyped for

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@JSND Alter Dragon Boner

Achilles:
- 1st is Quick buff and Crit damage buff; lasts 3 turns
- 2nd Protection from Arrows Cu Alter Edition with Invulnerabity instead of Evasion; lasts 5 turns
- 3rd is Taunt with Np Gain Up and Np charge; lasts 1 turn
- NP grants Quick buff for 1 turn (effect triggers first) and is AoE.
Just saying but this is absurd. He can constantly crit pretty much while being able to spam his NP for that sweet Quick boost. The only thing that could screw him over are numbers on his skills but if they are just around the average values he is going to be an amazing Rider.

Chiron's NP only removes Defense Buffs.

Edited by The Priest
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4 hours ago, eclipse said:

My wish list is pretty short.  It consists of:

- A Saber that can hit back
- A Lancer that can hit back
- Another Caster that can hit back
- Amakusa for mass buff removal

I'm a very easy girl to please.

So brave Liz, Summer Kiyohime, caster gil, and evil shirou.

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10 hours ago, Czarpy said:

is MHX Alter any good? I know you're not gonna roll for Vanilla Jeanne you damn fraud. 

MHXA is not that good. Her NP is nice but I don’t find the rest of her kit that interesting except for the partywide star absorb drop.

Am I going to be a fraud unless I roll every single Saberface?

10 hours ago, Czarpy said:

oh I'm definately rolling the next gudaguda event. Hijikata looks like fun.

We also get Chacha who has the feet.

10 hours ago, Czarpy said:
  Reveal hidden contents

 

Life is good.

1 hour ago, The Priest said:

I missed 3 lores in total (Nero Fest, Moon Goddess, 1 in Halloween). Taunt me properly, mongrel.

Laughs in three extra Lores

That better?

1 hour ago, The Priest said:

She is a Rare Prism and I didn't ascend to her Interlude requirements. Beginner mistake.

Cursed.

After getting all the Berserker statues, I will have cleared out the shop. I’ll grind embers to finish ascending Iri before I grind QP. We get God Hearts from Rashomon so I won’t bother with the drop rates here.

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And when i thought i can't get salty at reddits post enough

 

Sieg Skilset have bad synergy

 

 

Because you know, a skillset that is literally perfect for farming servant without having to pay the normal consequences for it have no synergy

 

@MrSmokestack I honestly think MHXA is super good when it comes to skill

> 3 turn Quick buff tied to Instinct is good

>1st sucks for obvious reason, but it does make heal sustaining her easier if nothing else

>Charisma that makes it more likely for critting

>The Bonus damage is against Saber and tied to NP as a super effective hits, all in all making her THE Top damage dealer against Archer class, and super scalable. When it comes to bonus effect, i dare say this is one of the best to ever exists, and you know how much i hyped Nobu's NP

> Brynhildr Card Set

 

 

All in all, had almost everything that makes Brynhildr awesome and then more, fixes the issue of MHX having Saber damage bonus as an Assassin. An interlude away from being super good but that should be obvious since she have the strongest NP1 damage if she have that on normal value

Edited by JSND Alter Dragon Boner
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9 hours ago, The Geek said:

Artoria Archer and Nobu are good at different things.  Nobu is good for clearing waves while Artoria Archer is better for bosses.

IIRC Ishtar and Merlin gachas are at different times.  Merlin is during one of the Babylon gachas (which will be in October/November IIRC) and Ishtar is during the Christmas gacha (late December)

Huh, for some reason I remembered Artoria Archer being an AoE Archer instead of a ST one. All the more reason to try and get her then!

For Ishtar and Merlin, I've been using this Rate-Up Calendar. Ishtar shows up late November while Merlin shows up in the middle of December. A half a month is not long enough to save up Quartz!

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3 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

Am I going to be a fraud unless I roll every single Saberface?

Not every Saberface, every Saberface Alter.
Until you get Lancer Alter, Rider Alter and MHXA you will be a fraud.

3 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

Cursed.

Look at my rolls and tell me if they look cursed to you.

2 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Because you know, a skillset that is literally perfect for farming servant without having to pay the normal consequences for it have no synergy

AoE Caster ... with a skill that gives effective damage against DRAGONS.
Has Independent Action EX ... but nothing else to get him stars or boost his awful star weight.
This is way too funny.

But the gacha Servants are amazing. Chiron should work really well in Arts Crit teams and can be general support while Achilles makes Quick somewhat look good.

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3 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

MHXA is not that good. Her NP is nice but I don’t find the rest of her kit that interesting except for the partywide star absorb drop.

Am I going to be a fraud unless I roll every single Saberface?

We also get Chacha who has the feet.

Life is good.

Laughs in three extra Lores

That better?

Cursed.

After getting all the Berserker statues, I will have cleared out the shop. I’ll grind embers to finish ascending Iri before I grind QP. We get God Hearts from Rashomon so I won’t bother with the drop rates here.

why do you want to note an underage loli's feet you sick fraud

why bother getting statues and pieces? we just walked out of da vinci.

24 minutes ago, The Priest said:

Not every Saberface, every Saberface Alter.
Until you get Lancer Alter, Rider Alter and MHXA you will be a fraud.

Look at my rolls and tell me if they look cursed to you.

AoE Caster ... with a skill that gives effective damage against DRAGONS.
Has Independent Action EX ... but nothing else to get him stars or boost his awful star weight.
This is way too funny.

But the gacha Servants are amazing. Chiron should work really well in Arts Crit teams and can be general support while Achilles makes Quick somewhat look good.

well we all know sieg is supposed to lolsuck

man i want chiron and achilles when they come. oh well....

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1 hour ago, The Priest said:

Not every Saberface, every Saberface Alter.
Until you get Lancer Alter, Rider Alter and MHXA you will be a fraud.

Look at my rolls and tell me if they look cursed to you.

AoE Caster ... with a skill that gives effective damage against DRAGONS.
Has Independent Action EX ... but nothing else to get him stars or boost his awful star weight.
This is way too funny.

But the gacha Servants are amazing. Chiron should work really well in Arts Crit teams and can be general support while Achilles makes Quick somewhat look good.

His skillset is just Mana Burst, ATK buff, NP charge, and Golden Rule effect

 

and thats literally everything a farming servant ever want to have. Theres MANY bad things to say about SIeg, im pretty sure the obvious ones can be pointed out super quickly, it starts with A, and ends with K but his skilset making no sense isn't one of them

 

 

Also i don't know passive ever matters >_>

 

 

That said while Achilles looks good, my opinion on him drops considerably after his card set ended being Tristan Tier. Its not "bad", but my first look was thinking hes a Brynhildr, Kuro, or Kintoki

 

Chiron otoh is a perfect example of ridiculously good servant that isnt broken but still made you bat an eye at how ridiculous some of his stuff are

- Rivals WAVER as a damage buffer having 390% damage buff which is on par with Waver's no NP buffs(NP waver is 480-540% depending on NP level)

- literally a 2P1 servant who can be slapped on ANYTHING because he buffs all 3 card types

- His Crit buff comes with Instinct

- Nero Bride np gain on QQAAB, with solid 3 hit Quick and 5 hit extra so he produces 11 stars at least on an AAQ

- Dodge isnt too special, but dodge is a dodge

 

LIke had he have Charisma he would outright rival 5* Caster in term of support value just from how splashable that is., although support!Chiron value is lowered from Archer weight, and as a quick support he didn't have NP drain that is obviously required on any support. And the fact that he looks like a support should tell you hes a great DPS

 

Interlude away from being really OP but hes just a super awesome unit overall

Edited by JSND Alter Dragon Boner
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1 hour ago, The Priest said:

Not every Saberface, every Saberface Alter.
Until you get Lancer Alter, Rider Alter and MHXA you will be a fraud.

Only one of them is in the current pool but I’m still planning on rolling for the other two. Guess I’ll roll Lancer during the New Year’s gacha.

Quote

Look at my rolls and tell me if they look cursed to you.

With those rolls, I’d say suffering through mat hell is punishment enough.

Rejoice while you still can.

46 minutes ago, Czarpy said:

why do you want to note an underage loli's feet you sick fraud

Can we appreciate a character’s features without there being an overtly sexual connotation? Okita has better feet anyway

Besides I’m not into feet. Just Alters

Quote

why bother getting statues and pieces? we just walked out of da vinci.

Because I’m getting QP while I’m doing it and have over 10 days to finish the event? Iono

 

Why is Sieg a Caster

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4 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

 

Can we appreciate a character’s features without there being an overtly sexual connotation? Okita has better feet anyway

Besides I’m not into feet. Just Alters

Why is Sieg a Caster

 

He's a Master and his strongest feature have always been really high mana value. The logic used is also probably he "emulates Siegfried' with mana making him a caster that selfs buff in categorization

Many of his skills and class stuff is one of those things where it look weird until you think about it then it made perfect sense tbh

.....except Dragonslayer Caster. I need to agree that made no sense, although its probably added for L O R E because its obvious that is an NP charge skill first and foremost

 

WHAT IF THE FEET

 

IS

 

ALTERED

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1 minute ago, MrSmokestack said:

Only one of them is in the current pool but I’m still planning on rolling for the other two. Guess I’ll roll Lancer during the New Year’s gacha.

With those rolls, I’d say suffering through mat hell is punishment enough.

Rejoice while you still can.

Can we appreciate a character’s features without there being an overtly sexual connotation? Okita has better feet anyway

Besides I’m not into feet. Just Alters

Because I’m getting QP while I’m doing it and have over 10 days to finish the event? Iono

 

Why is Sieg a Caster

fraud didn't roll for cu alter tsk tsk

 

I'm guessing sieg's a caster because turning him into a Siegfried-based pseudoservant that's basically siegfried 2.0 is just something DW doesn't want to give us.

tho if anything, I'd rather see a saber sieg with the shit he pulled in that fight against amakusa. 

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Oh yeah if anyone wonders this meaningless shit

 

Is Sieg's stats actually bad?

Yes. His stats is comparable to Edison. He's one of those servant whose stats is legitimately bad. LIke not badly distributed, not "Saber Lilly" or people think its bad but it really isn't which is rare but its there. Its just bad. low ATK, mid range ish HP, and 1000 less stats total than the ussual or peaks. You mainly expect standard Caster SR to have 20.500 stats total. Sieg have 19.500+ alongside Edison

 

 

Other example of this is Kiyohime Lancer and Hijikata

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