Fate/Grand Order General

[MacLovin]

2 minutes ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

Ok real talk

Why is Salter so high rated. It bothers me when people makes her off to be better than she actually is(going to say as far as saying Grailed Salter is better than Artoria which is honestly pretty dumb because the resource used on the former is significantly more)

Compared to Artoria. WIth both at NP1:

Artoria - 29851

Salter - 29337

Her damage is lower. No, i don't care Artoria have Interlude while Salter doesn't. Fact of the matter is, she does, so her NP is 400% vs Salter 450% which resulted in.... that above.  Thats like saying Bedivere NP is weaker than Caesar because Bedivere need Interlude to beat Caesar, if you compare both of them obviously you compare them at their full build

Literally the only thing she have is cost efficiency which is quite good, but its one thing if she have cost efficiency of an SSR that gave you a good to great SSR, In NA theres currently Heracles, and Lancer Alter who fits that criteria. America would have Rama. And then theres guys like Kintoki Rider(who is a better version of Okita).  Vanilla Saber is widely regarded one of the worst SSR in the game, and Salter, is for obvious reason a worse version of Arturia in every way possible.

 

@MrSmokestack gone wild

but she's edgy!

[Shiki]

@JSND Alter Dragon Boner
5 Grails to get a minimal increase of stats is really not worth it. There are some exceptions like Jeanne Alter or Cu Alter but that's because they have class modifiers on them plus ridicilous skill sets. Otherwise it is just a way to pump your favorites and it only shows substantial difference on 3* or lower Servants (Asterios being the best example for it). 

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Your numbers aren't really clear. Are you comparing them at Level 90? What buffs are in effect? Pretty sure that NP2 SAlter will outdamage her more than the couple hundred points.
The existence of Heracles or Lancer Alter don't de-value her either. I mean if we're taking this further I could say Herc is a worse version of Cu Alter. But that's not saying a lot, isn't it? Being close to an SSR in performance only makes a Servant really good and if anything SAlter is what Artoria should have been.
Not that I would call Saber Alter the best 4* Saber (because that's reserved for Yagyu and Saberlot) but she is certainly very good within class and considering just how many SR Servants are really mediocre, it makes her stand out more.

I would say you overrate Rama.

[The Geek]

I think the basis of the argument that Artoria Alter is better than normal Artoria is the fact that she's a lower rarity and therefore easier to get to a higher NP level which will improve her damage.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

11 minutes ago, Zeratul said:

@JSND Alter Dragon Boner
5 Grails to get a minimal increase of stats is really not worth it. There are some exceptions like Jeanne Alter or Cu Alter but that's because they have class modifiers on them plus ridicilous skill sets. Otherwise it is just a way to pump your favorites and it only shows substantial difference on 3* or lower Servants (Asterios being the best example for it). 

I'm not sure what you are trying to say. Your numbers aren't really clear. Are you comparing them at Level 90? What buffs are in effect? Pretty sure that NP2 SAlter will outdamage her more than the couple hundred points.
The existence of Heracles or Lancer Alter don't de-value her either. I mean if we're taking this further I could say Herc is a worse version of Cu Alter. But that's not saying a lot, isn't it? Being close to an SSR in performance only makes a Servant really good and if anything SAlter is what Artoria should have been.
Not that I would call Saber Alter the best 4* Saber (because that's reserved for Yagyu and Saberlot) but she is certainly very good within class and considering just how many SR Servants are really mediocre, it makes her stand out more.

I would say you overrate Rama.

For context - i often saw Salter being reccomended as grailling consideration because in summarization "her ATK is higher than Artoria and her NP have way higher multiplier'

 

now lets break it down one by one

Oh yeah lets assume NP1

- her NP have way higher multiplier - It really isn't, their actual difference is 50%, and Arturia's buff value made up the difference. With both at base investment, Arturia deals higher damage, and with L100, Salter only deals 2500 more damage(7%) than Arturia at 34.5k vs 32k. For all intent and purpose we can see that Salter without grail is worse Arturia, Salter with +2 Grail becomes a slightly better Arturia

- One of the main consideration for grailing is skills.... and they have same skillset except Salter is worse overall. I'll be one of the first guy who said Arturia's skillset isn't that bad and instinct is a pretty good skill, it still falls below the water when compared to other 4* Saber. Putting this into a comparison, its kinda like this, grailing Salter gave you a slightly better version of the current lowest rated SSR, for some whack arbritrary numbers, lets say using memelist, Saber is 4.5, grailed Salter is 5.0. The one's i'd consider stronger, is a slightly worse version of higher level SSR - Heracles would be 8.0/8.0+ to CuAlter 8.5, Lalter would be 7.5 or 8.0, being around Karna level but more self sufficient, Kinrider would be like 8.0 being basically "quick Vlad" thanks to his hideous 1st

- 4* Saber happen to be one of the most absurd pool in the entire game. Rama is so messed up that his biggest downside is he don't have Instinct, Saberlot and HIStORICALLy ACCURATE is.... Saberlot and HISTORICALLY ACCURATE. On budget zone theres Bathory Saber which really is a servant people would make a fuss for no reason when she's really the most straightforward Saber in the game with modern np gain scheme(the core difference of card set of modern Saber and classic saber is Clasic have Sub 1.6 Arts gain and sub 1.6 Quick gains. Modern have Sub 1.6 and sub 2.5 intended to make Riding a bit more useful where it counts) and a skillset that boils down to STNP, Mana Burst, Self Invul

 

Overall i think Salter is a fine servant(good even), but i don't see what makes her so special that she's one of the better grail target. 90% of stuff you did wth Salter, is the same thing that Saber did. Also i don't really see how Salter is how Saber should be. If anything, Bathory, Bedivere(ok this one is Mordred and Bedivere is a Lancer so its more arguable), and Lalter fits that better, each showing the areas where Saber and Salter falls over

Really part of my wonder about this is when i saw people saying Salter is better for grailing than Lalter thats when i went balistic for armor waifu, and partly since theres the whole funny ssr ranking disparity where the difference between 7.0 on SR Tier and 7.5 is kinda worlds apart while SSR ranking had a rather calm stratification

[MrSmokestack]

 

2 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

And then theres guys like Kintoki Rider(who is a better version of Okita yeah i went there). 

I agree with this

2 hours ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said:

@MrSmokestack gone wild

Eh

50 minutes ago, Zeratul said:

 Pretty sure that NP2 SAlter will outdamage her more than the couple hundred points.

If you’ll excuse my being pedantic I’d argue that normal Saber is more common than Saber Alter. Saber is a spook in every single gacha except for like male or x class-only summons while Saber Alter literally does not exist outside of rate up. Normal Saber is also one of if not the most common SSR in JP so it’s not as much of a stretch as it might seem to be.

[Shiki]

20 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

f you’ll excuse my being pedantic I’d argue that normal Saber is more common than Saber Alter. Saber is a spook in every single gacha except for like male or x class-only summons while Saber Alter literally does not exist outside of rate up. Normal Saber is also one of if not the most common SSR in JP so it’s not as much of a stretch as it might seem to be.

Considering that we should talk about this that we want to pull her, SAlter wins. She had enough rate-ups and gets even more along the line thanks to Singularity summons and such. Getting Saber is a lot harder since she isn't on rate-up that many times and getting spooked specifically by her is pretty unlikely. Even now with Mordred added every SSR Saber card only has 33% chance to be her and that's with the 1% chance of getting an SSR without rate-up.

@JSND Alter Dragon Boner
While I don't disagree with you there in regards of Saber Alter, that rating system doesn't work in FGO at all. Trying to compare an SR with an SSR is pointless, even more if the comparision flies over class separation. That's why FGO tier lists on the whole aren't really helpful for Gold Servants because SR and SSR are fundamentally different. Just because Saber is the worst SSR doesn't make Saber Alter a bad SR and Heracles is the only true case of an SR comparable to an SSR because he is that absurd.

[MrSmokestack]

37 minutes ago, Zeratul said:

Considering that we should talk about this that we want to pull her, SAlter wins. She had enough rate-ups and gets even more along the line thanks to Singularity summons and such.

Saber and Saber Alter have had roughly the same number of rate ups, and they share nearly all of them with other SRs and SSRs. In addition, Saber Alter shares her rate up with more SRs than Saber does with SSRs.

While your odds of getting Saber Alter are better than Saber, they are not so much better (3% vs 1%) that they warrant giving Saber Alter an arbitrary NP level advantage for the comparison, especially on a unit that does not even exist outside of rate-up. I’ll take a near-zero chance of being summoned over a flat 0% chance of being summoned any day.

In my opinion, NP level should only be taken into account when those levels are guaranteed or nearly so, like with welfare SRs or 3* units that can be summoned from both the FP Gacha and the Quartz gacha.

Mind you, I’m not arguing that Saber Alter is worse than Saber or vice versa. I prefer Saber Alter I wouldn’t mind getting Saber too between them, but I disagree with using NP levels as an argument between the two.

[Shiki]

1 hour ago, MrSmokestack said:

While your odds of getting Saber Alter are better than Saber, they are not so much better (3% vs 1%) that they warrant giving Saber Alter an arbitrary NP level advantage for the comparison, especially on a unit that does not even exist outside of rate-up. I’ll take a near-zero chance of being summoned over a flat 0% chance of being summoned any day.

In my opinion, NP level should only be taken into account when those levels are guaranteed or nearly so, like with welfare SRs or 3* units that can be summoned from both the FP Gacha and the Quartz gacha.

Mind you, I’m not arguing that Saber Alter is worse than Saber or vice versa. I prefer Saber Alter I wouldn’t mind getting Saber too between them, but I disagree with using NP levels as an argument between the two.

You can get Saber Alter as a free gift if you want to pull that card. So she's 100% compared to near-zero or costing real money.

I would only agree if this would be between SRs but it isn't. Considering we're talking about SR vs SSR this is an undeniable advantage for SAlter and being three times more likely is definetly a lot in FGO standards.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Zeratul

[MrSmokestack]

22 minutes ago, Zeratul said:

You can get Saber Alter as a free gift if you want to pull that card. So she's 100% compared to near-zero or costing real money.

I really really really want to do this when it comes around but only if I get Heracles and Caster Gil first.

[Shiki]

... Ok, its not the 14th Februar yet, right?
Please don't let this escalate into Korean speed (btw. they are scheduled to get all of Part 1 within this year and they already got Strengthening Quests, RIP).

17 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

I really really really want to do this when it comes around but only if I get Heracles and Caster Gil first.

... aren't you forgetting someone? Be careful, she might want to impale you~
Will you pull for Nero Bride since you're on the Nero train? (and even further anger Jeanne Alter)

Edited January 18, 2018 by Zeratul

[MrSmokestack]

35 minutes ago, Zeratul said:

Please don't let this escalate into Korean speed (btw. they are scheduled to get all of Part 1 within this year and they already got Strengthening Quests, RIP).

I can’t wait for Strengthens to make my Martha OP~

Won’t we get all of Part 1 by the end of this year too? Camelot should be around Summer Time and Solomon by late December. EoR will take a while though.

Quote

... aren't you forgetting someone? Be careful, she might want to impale you~
Will you pull for Nero Bride since you're on the Nero train? (and even further anger Jeanne Alter)

Saber Faces make me weak. It doesn’t matter if it’s a Roman tyrant, a space traveler from another dimension, a water sports champion, or the vengeful manifestation of a martyr.

To love a Saber Face is to inevitably grieve at every turn. At least Nero Bride has quite a few rate ups so I’ll stick to saving Jeanne Alter

Maybe after I do a few ticket rolls...

Edited January 18, 2018 by MrSmokestack

[MacLovin]

45 minutes ago, MrSmokestack said:

I can’t wait for Strengthens to make my Martha OP~

Won’t we get all of Part 1 by the end of this year too? Camelot should be around Summer Time and Solomon by late December. EoR will take a while though.

Saber Faces make me weak. It doesn’t matter if it’s a Roman tyrant, a space traveler from another dimension, a water sports champion, or the vengeful manifestation of a martyr.

To love a Saber Face is to inevitably grieve at every turn. At least Nero Bride has quite a few rate ups so I’ll stick to saving Jeanne Alter

Maybe after I do a few ticket rolls...

it's a slippery slope.

 

You all know what's fun? Mana Burst Buster NP chain

Edited January 18, 2018 by Skurge

[MrSmokestack]

 

36 minutes ago, Skurge said:

You all know what's fun? Mana Burst Buster NP chain

That can 1 turn the London final boss. I know because I tried it.

[MacLovin]

Just now, MrSmokestack said:

 

That can 1 turn the London final boss. I know because I tried it.

yeah but the new mystic code just makes it even easier to do.

Now Fergus can kinda sorta pull off Altria's att buff+manaburst combo tsk tsk.

 

I'm not the only one farming for assassin enmbers right? I've also been raising diarmud up a bit for the fate/zero event since I don't have altria or any of the needed gold servants for that event. (I know it's months away, it dun matter.) I'm gonna get diarmud up to lvl 60 and then stash the lancer exp away for Leonidas/Proto Cu.

[QKumber]

I think for comparison we need to look not only at dmg, but at stuff like NP gain, skill CDs, availability (which you guys went on), cost and Star Absorb

But in all honesty? Both of them (OG Seibah and SAlter) are mainly Excalibur bots. They charge np, they fire np, stuff dies. I don`t see many diferences in those 2.

LancerAlter is a whole dif story...

btw, Brynhildr gacha started earlier and so I rolled half my stash 300sq for:

5 of new jeanne CE; 4 Prisma Cosmos (had 0 before yay); 1 LZO; 1 Formalcraft (number3); 1 heavens feel.

For servants: a Carmilla spook (np3 now nice); a Beowulf aaaand a gold lancer

[MrSmokestack]

@QKumberNice you got Jekyll

Bryn doesn’t really stand out to me other than the fact that she’s rare. I’ll wait for Li Shuwen and Tamamo Lancer.

[MacLovin]

saber/rider exp daily. A.k.a. Nobu and Jack go to work.

 

Focuses

Fergus, then Gilles (Need more pages for caesar but fuck page farming)

Asterios 

Lu Bu(Then Kiyohime)

Ushi(Then Medusa/Alexander idk which one is used in a sooner event)

Euryale/David

Medea/Hans

I'm not gonna spend my stashed assassin cards until we get to the KnK event. After that one, I'll focus on Jing Ke.

Medea/Altria Lilly and the rest of the gold servants stay in the back for bond level farming. I need those SQ after all!

 

Ugh fuck I'm just going to toss my tickets on Brynhildr in the final day of her banner and hope for the best. I'll try rolling on the valentine's event when Altera or Jeanne are on rate-up. Or would saber Shiki be worth rolling for instead?

Edited January 19, 2018 by Skurge

[Jingle Jangle]

Is it possible to get the game on an android emulator? I would get it on by phone, but Fire Emblem Heroes is taking up majority of the space.

[MacLovin]

Just now, Jingle Jangle said:

Is it possible to get the game on an android emulator? I would get it on by phone, but Fire Emblem Heroes is taking up majority of the space.

nope! FGO won't load on android emulators.

[Jingle Jangle]

Just now, Skurge said:

nope! FGO won't load on android emulators.

That's sad, maybe I'm due of an expansion in storage size.

[MacLovin]

4 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

That's sad, maybe I'm due of an expansion in storage size.

FEH runs on emulators though. You could just replace it with FGO for awhile to see how it works for you!

There's a celebration going on right now within the game. If you log in, you'll get goodies and a revamped set of starter rewards. 

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

man thats some P R O G R E S S

Maxed Valor on Herc and DEMONKING on Nobu

Not sure who i want to raise next but i guess last slot Herc could carry me far at this point

[MacLovin]

for farming, who's the better berserker, Kiyohime or Spartacus? 

 

I've gotten asterios/lu bu to final ascension

[MrSmokestack]

7 minutes ago, Skurge said:

for farming, who's the better berserker, Kiyohime or Spartacus? 

Spartacus after he gets all of his upgrades.

[QKumber]

19 hours ago, MrSmokestack said:

@QKumberNice you got Jekyll

Bryn doesn’t really stand out to me other than the fact that she’s rare. I’ll wait for Li Shuwen and Tamamo Lancer.

I really liked her design and her legend - despite the FGO only capturing a very small part of it. So Bryn was among my must get if possible!

8 minutes ago, Skurge said:

for farming, who's the better berserker, Kiyohime or Spartacus? 

 

I've gotten asterios/lu bu to final ascension

Kyo can AoE hands without much investment in terms of skills. Spartacus I can`t say yet, mine still needs some lvls before I test him BUT if you raise his second skill it is much easier to charge his NP

going from a MLB Kscope to a MLB Imaginary element is a huge deal - specially for ppl like me that has a grand total of 0 Kscopes :P