New trailer: Warriors' Awakening

[Anacybele]

Just now, Etrurian emperor said:

I think its because no one really has a reason to expect that one. Its never been released in the west, doesn't have anything in Smash and doesn't seem to be particularly beloved in Japan compared to Archenea. So everyone knows it would be an extremely weird pick.

Yeah, poor Jugdral, huh. I've been interested in a remake of it, but yeah. Sad that it isn't that loved...

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Etrurian emperor said:

I think its because no one really has a reason to expect that one. Its never been released in the west, doesn't have anything in Smash and doesn't seem to be particularly beloved in Japan compared to Archenea. So everyone knows it would be an extremely weird pick.

True. But it would be hilarious if by some miracle, they brought that series over instead of the other ones. Actually, it wouldn't even be as negatively looked on. That series is still hailed by many hardcore fans as the best series yet. 

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Yeah, poor Jugdral, huh. I've been interested in a remake of it, but yeah. Sad that it isn't that loved...

It's not that it isn't loved. But you gotta remember, the Jugdral series is Kaga's LAST work before he left the company. In some way, wouldn't you think that the series never being touched on is actually Nintendo's way of honoring Kaga's last work with them? 

Of course, I'm not sure if that's the case, since there could be many other reasons, since technically speaking, Nintendo DID sue Kaga.

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

It's not that it isn't loved. But you gotta remember, the Jugdral series is Kaga's LAST work before he left the company. In some way, wouldn't you think that the series never being touched on is actually Nintendo's way of honoring Kaga's last work with them? 

Of course, I'm not sure if that's the case, since there could be many other reasons, since technically speaking, Nintendo DID sue Kaga.

What? How would that honor Kaga? If I wanted to be honored for my work, I'd want my work to be used! Archanea and Gaiden were his, but Jugdral and Thracia are too! Why honor him by repeatedly using some of his work, but always ignoring the rest?

What did happen between Kaga and IS and Nintendo though? Did they just disagree on what to develop? All I know is that Kaga was sued for trying to name Tear Ring Saga "Emblem Saga" Which is kind of dumb. The word "emblem" shouldn't be a trademark or anything. It'd be like trademarking "legend" because it's in The Legend of Zelda.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Anacybele

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Anacybele said:

What? How would that honor Kaga? If I wanted to be honored for my work, I'd want my work to be used! Archanea and Gaiden were his, but Jugdral and Thracia are too! Why honor him by repeatedly using some of his work, but always ignoring the rest?

I refer to remaking the games. Not including them to the other series. 

Like if they remake the games, and if it doesn't go well, what do you think ends up happening? They kind of screwed over Kaga's last work.

Of course, morality aside, other reasons not to remake it could be because of how difficult the game is. One single chapter in Genealogy takes hours. Thracia 776 is ridiculously hard. Plus, if they are going worldwide, imagine how much censoring that could possibly happen? Need I remind you that Arvis and Deirdre are half siblings that marry? Or how Sigurd goes through a REALLY fancy barbecue later?

[Escalario]

5 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

It's not that it isn't loved. But you gotta remember, the Jugdral series is Kaga's LAST work before he left the company. In some way, wouldn't you think that the series never being touched on is actually Nintendo's way of honoring Kaga's last work with them? 

Of course, I'm not sure if that's the case, since there could be many other reasons, since technically speaking, Nintendo DID sue Kaga.

What are you talking about? It's Kaga who sued Nintendo after leaving and got his ass handed to him in court about FE series rights.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Escalario said:

What are you talking about? It's Kaga who sued Nintendo after leaving and got his ass handed to him in court about FE series rights.

No, Kaga got sued by Nintendo because of the new series he was making that was being released on PlayStation that was very similar to Fire Emblem.

[Anacybele]

6 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I refer to remaking the games. Not including them to the other series. 

Like if they remake the games, and if it doesn't go well, what do you think ends up happening? They kind of screwed over Kaga's last work.

Of course, morality aside, other reasons not to remake it could be because of how difficult the game is. One single chapter in Genealogy takes hours. Thracia 776 is ridiculously hard. Plus, if they are going worldwide, imagine how much censoring that could possibly happen? Need I remind you that Arvis and Deirdre are half siblings that marry? Or how Sigurd goes through a REALLY fancy barbecue later?

IS said they were interested in remaking more games though. And that incest is a plot point, not just there to be there. The west generally looks down upon incest, but since Deidre is forced to marry Arvis, they don't get together simply because they decided they were in love despite being siblings, it's okay. And I don't think Arvis even knew Deidre was his sister.

I've also seen cases like this in American media too, where incest happens because the parties didn't know they were related or there was rape or something like that.

Also, RD had attempted child murder and execution. Sigurd being roasted is nothing.

IMO, Kaga had every right to make another FE-like game. He created FE in the first place, so he wasn't stealing someone else's work, he was stealing his own. xP Disney steals from their own works for crying out loud.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Anacybele

[Escalario]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

No, Kaga got sued by Nintendo because of the new series he was making that was being released on PlayStation that was very similar to Fire Emblem.

Oh the "Emblem Saga" name lawsuit. Forgot all about that lol

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Anacybele said:

IS said they were interested in remaking more games though. And that incest is a plot point, not just there to be there. The west generally looks down upon incest, but since Deidre is forced to marry Arvis, they don't get together simply because they decided they were in love despite being siblings, it's okay. And I don't think Arvis even knew Deidre was his sister.

I've also seen cases like this in American media too, where incest happens because the parties didn't know they were related or there was rape or something like that.

Indeed, but you'd be surprised how they would try to censor things that they look down on. Just come some media has it doesn't mean that Fire Emblem would be spared. And while they did say they'd remake the games, Jugdral is still the trickiest of the bunch. Thracia 776 wouldn't be remade without at least bringing in Genealogy since the game is a midquel to Genealogy. 

Hence why we're more likely to get the Elibe series instead of Jugdral being remade. Hell, we might end up getting a new remake of the Archanea series before a Jugdral remake.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Indeed, but you'd be surprised how they would try to censor things that they look down on. Just come some media has it doesn't mean that Fire Emblem would be spared. And while they did say they'd remake the games, Jugdral is still the trickiest of the bunch. Thracia 776 wouldn't be remade without at least bringing in Genealogy since the game is a midquel to Genealogy. 

Hence why we're more likely to get the Elibe series instead of Jugdral being remade. Hell, we might end up getting a new remake of the Archanea series before a Jugdral remake.

Hey, people weren't expecting Gaiden to be remade either because it wasn't popular. And knowing IS, they'd find some way to remake FE4 and FE5 anyway, even if they didn't end up being localized. It'd be disappointing, but I find it a realistic scenario.

[Pokechu]

On 7/14/2017 at 2:15 PM, Anacybele said:

I explained that. Didn't you read my post?

And I never said Ike had to shove everyone aside. I would HATE for him to do that after the hate he got for "shoving" Micaiah aside in RD. That's pretty much the main reason he has some haters even though he didn't actually shove Micaiah out of the spotlight, Yune did (literally, because she took over her body...). If Ike stole the show, he'd just get even more hate that he doesn't deserve and it wouldn't be fair to other characters anyway.

Ridley was given a decent reason not to be in Smash. He works better as a boss than a playable character.

And out of the Fates royals, Sakura and Hinoka don't appear to be liked much. I personally liked Ryoma, Elise, and Hinoka the best though.

Well, he's been rude to me before and he comes off as a self-proclaimed know-it-all who thinks he knows more about games and characters he hasn't played than I, someone who DID play those games, does. I'm sorry, but I often don't like his attitude. We clash too much and from this point on, I just prefer not to talk to him.

You're being a bit more reasonable though, so I thank you for that.

Yes. I did read your post. That's why I took so long to respond. I wanted to make sure I covered all parts. You only explained how Ike would fit in, that being a surprise after filling in all 5 orbs. You didn't explain Hector, Ephriam, and Micaiah. And while Ike doesn't have to shove everyone else aside, it would feel that way if everyone's fawning over him like "NO WAY! IKE, THE STRONGEST HERO, HAS COME TO HELP! HOLY NAGA!". And about the royals, all of them are liked. Sakura and Hinoka are certainly at the bottom of the 10, but imho it only seems that way because the others, such as Camilla, Leo, Takumi and Elise are more popular than them. To be honest, I haven't seen much love for Ryoma but that may just be me.

At the end of the day, I feel that Ike may be in, Ike might not be. But the game is focused on Awakening, Fates, and Shadow Dragon. It would be nice to see characters outside of those three, but I think that we should be content that FE Warriors is even a thing. Who knows? The next may focus on Ike's game and Lyn's game.

 

to be honest, this may be me, but I think your wording hurts a bit. Asking "Did you read my post?" is a bit crude since I took so long planning out my post, and saying I'm being a "bit more reasonable" hurts, after saying you feel the person I'm being more reasonable than is a self proclaimed know-it all. I'm not saying you're right, not saying you're wrong, but your wording can hurt people. Saying I'm "a bit more" kind of implies I'm not much better. I know you don't mean it in a negative way but that's how I took it at first, you know? Just my two cents! If I offended you during my posts at all, I do apologize.

 

Edited August 13, 2017 by Pokechu

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Hey, people weren't expecting Gaiden to be remade either because it wasn't popular. And knowing IS, they'd find some way to remake FE4 and FE5 anyway, even if they didn't end up being localized. It'd be disappointing, but I find it a realistic scenario.

I'm not saying its absolutely impossible. But the odds are more against them. Jugdral isn't actually unpopular. Just... tedious. If they remake Genealogy, they wouldn't likely be making the huge multi-hour long tedious gameplay, but instead would have to completely break apart the chapters into ~3 chapters or so, rework designs, add new additions, etc. It would take a while to make, as if they are making something purely from scratch.

Shadows of Valentia was more or less a testing grounds on whether they can make remakes work. 

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Pokechu said:

Yes. I did read your post. That's why I took so long to respond. I wanted to make sure I covered all parts. You only explained how Ike would fit in, that being a surprise after filling in all 5 orbs. You didn't explain Hector, Ephriam, and Micaiah. And while Ike doesn't have to shove everyone else aside, it would feel that way if everyone's fawning over him like "NO WAY! IKE, THE STRONGEST HERO, HAS COME TO HELP! HOLY NAGA!". And about the royals, all of them are liked. Sakura and Hinoka are certainly at the bottom of the 10, but imho it only seems that way because the others, such as Camilla, Leo, Takumi and Elise are more popular than them. To be honest, I haven't seen much love for Ryoma but that may just be me.

At the end of the day, I feel that Ike may be in, Ike might not be. But the game is focused on Awakening, Fates, and Shadow Dragon. It would be nice to see characters outside of those three, but I think that we should be content that FE Warriors is even a thing. Who knows? The next may focus on Ike's game and Lyn's game.

[collapse]to be honest, this may be me, but I think your wording hurts a bit. Asking "Did you read my post?" is a bit crude since I took so long planning out my post, and saying I'm being a "bit more reasonable" hurts, after saying you feel the person I'm being more reasonable than is a self proclaimed know-it all. I'm not saying you're right, not saying you're wrong, but your wording can hurt people. Saying I'm "a bit more" kind of implies I'm not much better. I know you don't mean it in a negative way but that's how I took it at first, you know? Just my two cents! If I offended you during my posts at all, I do apologize. [/collapse]

Heroes noted Ike to be the strongest without over-pandering to him. Warriors can do this too. Hector, Ephraim, and Micaiah could be DLC. Elincia could even join Micaiah in a Tellius pack. It might seem odd for one part of Tellius to be in the base game and for the rest to be DLC, but HW got a TP pack and stuff when TP was already in the base game, so it's not unprecedented.

Also, why do people keep bringing up sequels? HW didn't even get a true sequel. There's no reason to expect a sequel for FE Warriors.right now. Yet I repeatedly see people act like this is a given.

[Etrurian emperor]

4 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Indeed, but you'd be surprised how they would try to censor things that they look down on. Just come some media has it doesn't mean that Fire Emblem would be spared. And while they did say they'd remake the games, Jugdral is still the trickiest of the bunch. Thracia 776 wouldn't be remade without at least bringing in Genealogy since the game is a midquel to Genealogy. 

Hence why we're more likely to get the Elibe series instead of Jugdral being remade. Hell, we might end up getting a new remake of the Archanea series before a Jugdral remake.

Yet another Archenea remake sounds like a worst case scenario as far as remakes go. It would be a point where the favoritism really got out of hand.

I think Gaiden being remade does increase Jugdral's chances because a lot of the excuses IS would have to avoid it no longer apply. They can't hold the lack of recognition or weirdness against the game when they went out of their way to give the even less well known Gaiden another chance. Its mechanics being outdated isn't a sufficient explanation either now that Fire emblem rides high in part thanks to a feature introduced in genealogy. I think deliberately skipping Jugdral downrights requires an explanation at this point. 

That said I can see genealogy being skipped and I even expect it but I no longer think its as self evident or (sort of) justified as it once was.  

[Anacybele]

Oh yeah, Jugdral should honestly be right up some Awakening fans' alley at least because it introduced the marriage thing. People can't complain that it'd be poorly implemented either since FE4 has an actual realistic time skip and not some dumb time travel or baby realm nonsense.

[omegaxis1]

8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Oh yeah, Jugdral should honestly be right up some Awakening fans' alley at least because it introduced the marriage thing. People can't complain that it'd be poorly implemented either since FE4 has an actual realistic time skip and not some dumb time travel or baby realm nonsense.

Despite the parallels, that's not necessarily the case. The parallels actually draw a lot of comparisons and causes more scorn to be thrown at Awakening at times. 

29 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Yet another Archenea remake sounds like a worst case scenario as far as remakes go. It would be a point where the favoritism really got out of hand.

I think Gaiden being remade does increase Jugdral's chances because a lot of the excuses IS would have to avoid it no longer apply. They can't hold the lack of recognition or weirdness against the game when they went out of their way to give the even less well known Gaiden another chance. Its mechanics being outdated isn't a sufficient explanation either now that Fire emblem rides high in part thanks to a feature introduced in genealogy. I think deliberately skipping Jugdral downrights requires an explanation at this point. 

That said I can see genealogy being skipped and I even expect it but I no longer think its as self evident or (sort of) justified as it once was.  

It's a possibility, given how the Archanea series didn't fully enter worldwide, as FE12 never left Japan. 

Gaiden being remade is because it is a single game of a series that never went further that that game. It's a good method of testing waters. Archanea, Jugdral, Elibe, and the Tellius series are all games that are made with multiple games in. Magvel and Fates are the only ones to be their own story, though Fates is mistakenly believed to be some distant past of Awakening, which isn't even true, all because of the DLC. To remake Jugdral would require them to first remake Genealogy if anything, and then have to remake the entire game from scratch. Remember that Genealogy is the most different of all the Fire Emblem games, being 10 chapters of being a huge continental wide conquest that you have to go through multiple castles that requires hours of gameplay. Unless they try to be loyal and make just a newer version of the exact same game, which I don't think would sell as well, they need to break apart the chapters heavily and rework everything. 

There's a high chance of it being skipped. But like everyone else, I do have a lot of hopes that genealogy does get remade. Just if it does, it loses that tedious gameplay map. 

[Folt]

Honestly, Awakening and Fates are here because those games are actually hugely popular worldwide. A lot of the other games either cater to one specific part of the fanbase or have cult following, but Awakening put Fire Emblem on the map for many, many people in part due to successfully catering to people besides FE fans with their mechanics, and Fates solidified the series's turn from niché games to an actual marketable brand in much the same way.

(The two also have some of the best class rosters in terms of variety.)

I'm actually gonna have to say that I think M!Robin's default design is more of a young adult, alongside a teen boy design and an older adult one. F!Robin also pretty much follows those though I'm not fond of any build other than the default build for her, and M!Robin's designs still edge that one out.

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Despite the parallels, that's not necessarily the case. The parallels actually draw a lot of comparisons and causes more scorn to be thrown at Awakening at times.

What? What do you mean? I don't understand. I'm not the biggest fan of Awakening, but still. Why would it make people hate on Awakening?

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

What? What do you mean? I don't understand. I'm not the biggest fan of Awakening, but still. Why would it make people hate on Awakening?

Look at all the parallels we have:

• Evil cult wanting to revive a dark god to bring about an apocalypse and inflict terror on humanity.
• Holy blood
• Naga's bloodline that unlocks a weapon that is the only method to stop the evil dragon god.
• Second generation that tries to fight the war after most of the first gen lose or are killed. 
• First generation actually lose (pre-time travel). 
• Deadlords

So many parallels and how Awakening and Fates are mocking labeled as "Waifu" Emblem, the fact there are so many parallels to Jugdral got it insulted more by die hard Jugdral worshippers. I've had some nasty run ins with them over the internet. Can't say that I would like to ever meet them again.

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Look at all the parallels we have:

• Evil cult wanting to revive a dark god to bring about an apocalypse and inflict terror on humanity.
• Holy blood
• Naga's bloodline that unlocks a weapon that is the only method to stop the evil dragon god.
• Second generation that tries to fight the war after most of the first gen lose or are killed. 
• First generation actually lose (pre-time travel). 
• Deadlords

So many parallels and how Awakening and Fates are mocking labeled as "Waifu" Emblem, the fact there are so many parallels to Jugdral got it insulted more by die hard Jugdral worshippers. I've had some nasty run ins with them over the internet. Can't say that I would like to ever meet them again.

But in Awakening, the first gen only lost in another timeline, not the one you play in. And the second generation is optional to recruit in while in FE4, you have to get them.

And aren't Arvis and Julius the villains of FE4, not dragons? I recall Julius being the final bad guy or something.

Awakening doesn't have plot incest or anything either. So those parallels aren't entirely the same.

[Ertrick36]

8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

What? What do you mean? I don't understand. I'm not the biggest fan of Awakening, but still. Why would it make people hate on Awakening?

Because the comparisons just rub salt in their already salty wounds.  And the fact that what they see as the epitome of the series is being compared to what they see as trash in any way is a huge insult to their beloved game.  And maybe the comparisons aren't exactly the same, but it's simply the fact that people compare them in the first place that pisses them off.  It'd be like if someone compared, say, Ike to Corrin in favor of the latter.

Also, how exactly did this turn into a discussion about Jugdral?

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

But in Awakening, the first gen only lost in another timeline, not the one you play in. And the second generation is optional to recruit in while in FE4, you have to get them.

And aren't Arvis and Julius the villains of FE4, not dragons? I recall Julius being the final bad guy or something.

Awakening doesn't have plot incest or anything either. So those parallels aren't entirely the same.

Yes, but think about the original timeline, where the heroes lost midway and then the villains took over, forcing the 2nd generation. The time travel plot just allows you to bring 1st and 2nd generation together simply. 

Julius is the vessel for Loptyr, the dark god that is actually an Earth Dragon. And is an enemy of Naga, that Naga had to travel to Jugdral from Archanea along with 11 other Dragons, one of them being Forseti. 

They aren't, but there are a lot of parallels regardless that you can notice. Hell, its even implied in Robin and Tiki's supports that Chrom's ancestor might even be Seliph/Sigurd. Tiki mentions that Chrom resembles a man that came 1000 years before Marth's time, the time when Tiki herself was born, which is around 3000 years before Awakening, and that is when Jugdral takes place. 

2 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Because the comparisons just rub salt in their already salty wounds.  And the fact that what they see as the epitome of the series is being compared to what they see as trash in any way is a huge insult to their beloved game.  And maybe the comparisons aren't exactly the same, but it's simply the fact that people compare them in the first place that pisses them off.  It'd be like if someone compared, say, Ike to Corrin in favor of the latter.

Also, how exactly did this turn into a discussion about Jugdral?

Cause I mentioned that while we talk of Elibe, Magvel, and Tellius, we ignored Jugdral. One thing led to another regarding remakes, and bam. XP

[Folt]

Speaking of Jugdral parallels, Robin sometimes makes me think of both Julius and Julia. He resembles both in that he has a secret heritage of draconic origin, has amnesia at the start of the game due to events in the backstory (which eventually comes to affect the present day) like Julia has, and was bred to be the ideal vessel of an evil dragon like Julius was. Of course, in other ways, he's practically their opposite as well.

Edited July 14, 2017 by Folt

[Anacybele]

24 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Because the comparisons just rub salt in their already salty wounds.  And the fact that what they see as the epitome of the series is being compared to what they see as trash in any way is a huge insult to their beloved game.  And maybe the comparisons aren't exactly the same, but it's simply the fact that people compare them in the first place that pisses them off.  It'd be like if someone compared, say, Ike to Corrin in favor of the latter.

Also, how exactly did this turn into a discussion about Jugdral?

But wouldn't those people be a minority while Awakening's fans are a much larger group? I still feel like an FE4 remake would appeal to more people than not.

And omegaxis1 answered your question.