New trailer: Warriors' Awakening

[omegaxis1]

7 hours ago, Anacybele said:

Yeah, exactly.

But Emmeryn's survival, as well as Gangrel's and Aversa's and all, make their "death" scenes much less meaningful, imo. But I won't complain much about Gangrel since his supports and DLC conversation with Emmeryn actually make him a pretty decent character. So logically, these paralogues could've been done well, they just generally weren't, imo.

I truly wish that Elincia and Ike could have deepened their relationship and eve having a paired ending in Radiant Dawn as well, like with Soren. We know that Soren has someone he cares for and is looking for in Path of Radiance. Radiant Dawn arrives and we see its Micaiah.

I don't disagree. Personally, I would have loved it if Mustafa was one of the guys that survived. Everyone loves Mustafa and the man ONLY appears in just a SINGLE chapter. Gotta admit that they really made Mustafa an amazing character that I wish was playable. And Gangrel is actually the best villain in Awakening, even though he still doesn't completely compare to others in the past, but Gangrel is actually VERY realistic about human nature, and he has legit reasons for his hatred, and it really brings some moral grey where he's a man driven by revenge. 

Hell, he even has some amazing supports with Robin. Almost makes me feel bad about his ending, if he really is dead. 

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

I truly wish that Elincia and Ike could have deepened their relationship and eve having a paired ending in Radiant Dawn as well, like with Soren. We know that Soren has someone he cares for and is looking for in Path of Radiance. Radiant Dawn arrives and we see its Micaiah.

I don't disagree. Personally, I would have loved it if Mustafa was one of the guys that survived. Everyone loves Mustafa and the man ONLY appears in just a SINGLE chapter. Gotta admit that they really made Mustafa an amazing character that I wish was playable. And Gangrel is actually the best villain in Awakening, even though he still doesn't completely compare to others in the past, but Gangrel is actually VERY realistic about human nature, and he has legit reasons for his hatred, and it really brings some moral grey where he's a man driven by revenge. 

Hell, he even has some amazing supports with Robin. Almost makes me feel bad about his ending, if he really is dead. 

I would've guessed it was Stefan, since he even invited Soren to come live with him in his Branded community. I wish they'd gotten that ending, I think it would've been very good for Soren. ...Or were you talking about Sothe? And yeah, I wish Ike and Elincia had gotten an ending too, even if it was platonic.

Mustafa was well written for a one-time boss, yeah. I can see why people like him. And agreed, Gangrel is the best Awakening antagonist/villain for just what you said. Grima and Validar just suck.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Anacybele

[SSbardock84]

*Sigh* Awakening is great and all, but they always focus too much on that game and Fates. We need more stuff from the older games. Ephraim and Hector would be sick in this game.

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I would've guessed it was Stefan, since he even invited Soren to come live with him in his Branded community. I wish they'd gotten that ending, I think it would've been very good for Soren. And yeah, I wish Ike and Elincia had gotten an ending too, even if it was platonic.

Mustafa was well written for a one-time boss, yeah. I can see why people like him. And agreed, Gangrel is the best Awakening antagonist/villain for just what you said. Grima and Validar just suck.

Yeah, platonic works too. Or hell, maybe even have them accept they can't be together. Seriously, SD and Mystery already showed that love doesn't always work out, since Nyna and Camus (GODDAMMIT ;-;) failed to ever work. 

In a single chapter, he served to truly drive the moral grey and everyone wished that he was the one that survived in some way. And maybe Cervantes. Gotta love that mustache. XD

Granted Grima and Validar were pretty screwed over, you have to at least give some credit. They actually succeeded where many other villains failed. The world DID end up ruined and destroyed and Lucina and the others were forced to abandon it to go back in time. It really isn't everyday where the threat of apocalypse actually DOES happen, whereas other villains only endanger a nation or two, and at best a continent. 

2 minutes ago, SSbardock84 said:

*Sigh* Awakening is great and all, but they always focus too much on that game and Fates. We need more stuff from the older games. Ephraim and Hector would be sick in this game.

In all honesty, those two being the biggest seller of the franchise, it'd be weird if they DIDN'T get in.

I'm okay with Hector, but I cannot stand Ephraim. But if Ephraim was in, I could have the satisfaction of using my characters to beat Ephraim up over and over and over and over again.

[Anacybele]

5 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Yeah, platonic works too. Or hell, maybe even have them accept they can't be together. Seriously, SD and Mystery already showed that love doesn't always work out, since Nyna and Camus (GODDAMMIT ;-;) failed to ever work. 

In a single chapter, he served to truly drive the moral grey and everyone wished that he was the one that survived in some way. And maybe Cervantes. Gotta love that mustache. XD

Granted Grima and Validar were pretty screwed over, you have to at least give some credit. They actually succeeded where many other villains failed. The world DID end up ruined and destroyed and Lucina and the others were forced to abandon it to go back in time. It really isn't everyday where the threat of apocalypse actually DOES happen, whereas other villains only endanger a nation or two, and at best a continent. 

It would've been sad to see Ike and Elincia decide they couldn't be together. :( But I guess it'd be better than them acting like they don't acknowledge any friendship between them. For some reason, a lot of relationships in Archanea don't work out. There's a lot of unrequited love and even Marth and Caeda apparently had a lot of bumps in the road because of emotion issues with the former or something.

True, Grima and Validar DID technically succeed in one timeline, but they were so poorly written. There was no history or real motive behind their actions, we aren't ever told where Grima came from or why he wants to destroy everything or why Validar wants him to do so. They're like generic lame cartoon villains.

Ashnard technically got what he wanted, btw. He wanted to throw Tellius into war to awaken the Dark God from Lehran's Medallion, and this actually happened. Though it was after he died.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Anacybele

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Anacybele said:

It would've been sad to see Ike and Elincia decide they couldn't be together. :( But I guess it'd be better than them acting like they don't acknowledge any friendship between them. For some reason, a lot of relationships in Archanea don't work out. There's a lot of unrequited love and even Marth and Caeda apparently had a lot of bumps in the road because of emotion issues with the former or something.

True, Grima and Validar DID technically succeed in one timeline, but they were so poorly written. There was no history or real motive behind their actions, we aren't ever told where Grima came from or why he wants to destroy everything or why Validar wants him to do so. They're like generic lame cartoon villains.

Oh yeah. Catria and Marth cause Marth was with Caeda, Palla and Abel because Abel marries Est. And even Est and Abel didn't fully work out because Est left Abel presumably out of guilt for being the hostage that forced Abel to fight against Marth. 

But like you pointed out, I would rather have Ike and Elincia talk and admit that they DO have feelings for one another, but because they live in two different worlds, it just can't work out, and decide to remain close friends. And maybe show a bit more sign of Elincia and Geoffrey being able to work out. Personally, I didn't find that much chemistry between them. 

Grima does have some backstory now, as he is an abomination, created by a mad alchemist that sought to create the perfect life form using Divine Dragon Blood. Grima seems to always had dark destructive thoughts, which makes sense if he was created by such a mad scientist. As for Validar, yeah, I agree. I would loved to have seen a bit more on Validar's motives. My headcanon is that all Grimleal heads are taught to despise the world by only seeing the ugliness in it, from the poverty, famine, betrayal of family, and so on. Everything to mold the person to believe the world is beyond salvation, and that Grima is in fact a god that embodies mankind's sins, so that the world can reset. 

[Arthur97]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Oh yeah. Catria and Marth cause Marth was with Caeda, Palla and Abel because Abel marries Est. And even Est and Abel didn't fully work out because Est left Abel presumably out of guilt for being the hostage that forced Abel to fight against Marth. 

But like you pointed out, I would rather have Ike and Elincia talk and admit that they DO have feelings for one another, but because they live in two different worlds, it just can't work out, and decide to remain close friends. And maybe show a bit more sign of Elincia and Geoffrey being able to work out. Personally, I didn't find that much chemistry between them. 

Grima does have some backstory now, as he is an abomination, created by a mad alchemist that sought to create the perfect life form using Divine Dragon Blood. Grima seems to always had dark destructive thoughts, which makes sense if he was created by such a mad scientist. As for Validar, yeah, I agree. I would loved to have seen a bit more on Validar's motives. My headcanon is that all Grimleal heads are taught to despise the world by only seeing the ugliness in it, from the poverty, famine, betrayal of family, and so on. Everything to mold the person to believe the world is beyond salvation, and that Grima is in fact a god that embodies mankind's sins, so that the world can reset. 

Grima's origin may also shed some light on why it's so eager to destroy everything. It probably believes that it is superior to all life and therefore all other life is obsolete.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Arthur97 said:

Grima's origin may also shed some light on why it's so eager to destroy everything. It probably believes that it is superior to all life and therefore all other life is obsolete.

Forneus did create Grima to be the perfect life form, as well as to try and create an army of the dead. Perfection does seem to always lead to some method of destruction.

[Arthur97]

5 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Forneus did create Grima to be the perfect life form, as well as to try and create an army of the dead. Perfection does seem to always lead to some method of destruction.

It is strange though that Grima has a mind of it's own seeing as most Dracozombies seem to have lost any semblance of sentience.

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Arthur97 said:

It is strange though that Grima has a mind of it's own seeing as most Dracozombies seem to have lost any semblance of sentience.

Except Grima isn't "dead" per se. He was created using Divine Dragon blood and other experiments, possibly revolving around the Thanatophages. But Grima was tiny, the size of a thumbnail in the Japanese version, and only grew when given Forneus' blood. 

It's more accurate to say that Grima is more of a monstrosity that is between life and death.

[Arthur97]

2 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Except Grima isn't "dead" per se. He was created using Divine Dragon blood and other experiments, possibly revolving around the Thanatophages. But Grima was tiny, the size of a thumbnail in the Japanese version, and only grew when given Forneus' blood. 

It's more accurate to say that Grima is more of a monstrosity that is between life and death.

I thought a Dracozombie was the basis though. Particularly one of a divine dragon.

In any case, whatever that guy did, he somehow created a being that even Naga could not kill, so...

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Arthur97 said:

I thought a Dracozombie was the basis though. Particularly one of a divine dragon.

In any case, whatever that guy did, he somehow created a being that even Naga could not kill, so...

Depends on who that divine blood belonged to. Fun fact: Thabes is where Naga is said to have died. 

Let that sink in a little. If Naga died in Thabes and Forneus somehow got his hands on Divine Dragon blood, it isn't a stretch to consider that Naga's blood was used here. As for the corpses, it wasn't actually said that it was corpses used. Since Forneus is an alchemist, its possible that Grima is actually a form of a homunculus, which makes the initial size understandable, as homunculus are very small. 

So Grima can be believed some messed up alter clone of Naga, or Naga's artificial child, aka, Tiki's little brother.

[Arthur97]

1 minute ago, omegaxis1 said:

Depends on who that divine blood belonged to. Fun fact: Thabes is where Naga is said to have died. 

Let that sink in a little. If Naga died in Thabes and Forneus somehow got his hands on Divine Dragon blood, it isn't a stretch to consider that Naga's blood was used here. As for the corpses, it wasn't actually said that it was corpses used. Since Forneus is an alchemist, its possible that Grima is actually a form of a homunculus, which makes the initial size understandable, as homunculus are very small. 

So Grima can be believed some messed up alter clone of Naga, or Naga's artificial child, aka, Tiki's little brother.

Wait, Naga died?

Either way, I'm not sure clone is the right word if Grima was simply augmented by her blood, but that could explain why they seem to have some sort of yin and yang relationship maybe. Though, if Grima's powers were a distorted form of Naga's, it seems odd that she could not end him. Maybe they were simply too distorted or it simply became too strong.

[omegaxis1]

3 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Wait, Naga died?

Either way, I'm not sure clone is the right word if Grima was simply augmented by her blood, but that could explain why they seem to have some sort of yin and yang relationship maybe. Though, if Grima's powers were a distorted form of Naga's, it seems odd that she could not end him. Maybe they were simply too distorted or it simply became too strong.

Oh, sorry about that. Yeah, the Naga in Awakening is questionable on whether its the original Naga. Naga is Tiki's mother, and was the Divine Dragon King. After the war with the Earth Dragons, and a little side trip to Jugdral, Naga enshrined Falchion and the Shield of Seals, and put Tiki to sleep. She then died in Thabes, around the age of 5000. However, in Shadow Dragon, there's a character called Nagi that is believed to be Naga's reincarnated form, and there are many hints that prove it by Nagi's titles and ending title. 

In Awakening, "Naga" acts as a form of title, as in Future Past 3, we see Tiki's spirit become the "new Naga", meaning that this Naga we see is a Divine Dragon that took on the title of "Naga". However, its possible that this "Naga" is Nagi as well. 

True. But Grima clearly is much weaker than he was later. There's even a thing where in the KNights of Iris book, Grima is some sort of descendent from Earth Dragons, but it doesn't make sense if he was created by Divine Dragon blood.

Edited July 17, 2017 by omegaxis1

[Anacybele]

...People. SPOILER TAGS. I did not complete SoV yet, and while I was aware that the game does mention Grima somewhere, I didn't know it was backstory or anything. -_-

But at least IS made attempts to rectify Awakening's lack of history on the villains and such.

And another thing...sounds like Grima's backstory is similar to that of a villain I had in mind for a fic sequel. God dang it... At least my villain's not a dragon (he's more of a demon spirit).

Also, I agree that Geoffrey and Elincia had little chemistry compared to Ike and Elincia, though part of it is because Ike and Elincia interacted a lot more throughout both games. But imo, even in his PoR support with Elincia, Geoffrey felt more like an overprotective big brother than a potential lover.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Anacybele

[Arthur97]

19 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Oh, sorry about that. Yeah, the Naga in Awakening is questionable on whether its the original Naga. Naga is Tiki's mother, and was the Divine Dragon King. After the war with the Earth Dragons, and a little side trip to Jugdral, Naga enshrined Falchion and the Shield of Seals, and put Tiki to sleep. She then died in Thabes, around the age of 5000. However, in Shadow Dragon, there's a character called Nagi that is believed to be Naga's reincarnated form, and there are many hints that prove it by Nagi's titles and ending title. 

In Awakening, "Naga" acts as a form of title, as in Future Past 3, we see Tiki's spirit become the "new Naga", meaning that this Naga we see is a Divine Dragon that took on the title of "Naga". However, its possible that this "Naga" is Nagi as well. 

True. But Grima clearly is much weaker than he was later. There's even a thing where in the KNights of Iris book, Grima is some sort of descendent from Earth Dragons, but it doesn't make sense if he was created by Divine Dragon blood.

After some research, I'm inclined to believe it may be some sort of title. For one, apparently Naga in Awakening is never referred to as Tiki's mother.

[SSbardock84]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

In all honesty, those two being the biggest seller of the franchise, it'd be weird if they DIDN'T get in.

I'm okay with Hector, but I cannot stand Ephraim. But if Ephraim was in, I could have the satisfaction of using my characters to beat Ephraim up over and over and over and over again.

I mean, I guess so. But FE is a lot more popular in Japan. Lol why do you hate Ephraim so much?

[omegaxis1]

21 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

...People. SPOILER TAGS. I did not complete SoV yet, and while I was aware that the game does mention Grima somewhere, I didn't know it was backstory or anything. -_-

But at least IS made attempts to rectify Awakening's lack of history on the villains and such.

And another thing...sounds like Grima's backstory is similar to that of a villain I had in mind for a fic sequel. God dang it... At least my villain's not a dragon (he's more of a demon spirit).

Also, I agree that Geoffrey and Elincia had little chemistry compared to Ike and Elincia, though part of it is because Ike and Elincia interacted a lot more throughout both games. But imo, even in his PoR support with Elincia, Geoffrey felt more like an overprotective big brother than a potential lover.

Whoops. Sorry.

An idea me and my buddy Werdna had is that Grima is the accumulation of Loptyr and Medeus' spirits merging together and the bodies of every Earth Dragon. 

Exactly. They were childhood friends, but it didn't 'feel' like they could be lovers, but just sibling like. 

9 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

After some research, I'm inclined to believe it may be some sort of title. For one, apparently Naga in Awakening is never referred to as Tiki's mother.

Yeah, there's that. But since Nagi doesn't appear at all, it's possible that Naga is Nagi. 

5 minutes ago, SSbardock84 said:

I mean, I guess so. But FE is a lot more popular in Japan. Lol why do you hate Ephraim so much?

"I don't pick fights I can't win." - Picks a fight with the Grado Empire. 

"You're surrounded." - Escapes perfectly.

"The Sacred Stone has you trapped." - Requires a literal plot device mcguffin crystal to stop Ephraim. 

Need I go on?

[Lightchao42]

I figured that Tiki "becoming" Naga was a metaphorical way to say that she adopted Naga's role, and that before her there was only ever the "original" Naga (who regained physical form briefly as Nagi to fight Medeus) since it's never implied anywhere else that there were multiple Nagas (well, aside from Hindu/Buddhist mythology).

I also assume that rather than dying in the conventional manner Naga "ascended to a higher plane of existence" to avoid degeneration, like the First Dragons did. Granted, it's never said how she died but, as powerful as she's said to be, it seems like a plausible explanation.

18 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

There's even a thing where in the Knights of Iris book, Grima is some sort of descendent from Earth Dragons, but it doesn't make sense if he was created by Divine Dragon blood.

If we still assume that the Earth Dragon explanation is still canon and wasn't just retconned away, it's possible that Forneus used Earth Dragon blood instead of Divine Dragon blood when creating Grima. After all, we don't know where Forneus got the blood from so he could have been mistaken. Alternatively he just used "divine dragon" as a term to refer to powerful dragons in general and not the Divine Dragon Tribe in particular.

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Arthur97 said:

After some research, I'm inclined to believe it may be some sort of title. For one, apparently Naga in Awakening is never referred to as Tiki's mother.

I don't think Naga ever gets a moment with Tiki in Awakening because Tiki is totally optional in the main story post the Mila Tree scene, and Naga herself doesn't first appear until much later in the plot. Furthermore, what would Tiki have to say to Naga? The mother she probably has near zero memories of. I'd love to have the two talk, or at the least someone else ask Tiki about her feelings towards Naga as her mother, but unfortunately that never happens.

52 minutes ago, Lightchao42 said:

I figured that Tiki "becoming" Naga was a metaphorical way to say that she adopted Naga's role, and that before her there was only ever the "original" Naga (who regained physical form briefly as Nagi to fight Medeus) since it's never implied anywhere else that there were multiple Nagas (well, aside from Hindu/Buddhist mythology).

I also assume that rather than dying in the conventional manner Naga "ascended to a higher plane of existence" to avoid degeneration, like the First Dragons did. Granted, it's never said how she died but, as powerful as she's said to be, it seems like a plausible explanation.

Naga's body perished, but her soul entered the Alterspire somehow, which is in an alternate dimension, to begin reincarnation. By the time of SD and NM, she has regenerated a physical form of some power, but not her full strength. Sometime after Archanea but before or during the First Exalt's era, she reenters the world of Archanea; in what form, we do not know. By the time of Awakening, she is in a purely spiritual form and spends all of her existence like this (at least there is no chance of degeneration this way).

I like to think, recalling some words said at the ending of a Tales game about a character from the ending, that Awakening Naga is in fact all the long dead good Divine Dragons and their draconic allies with their souls combined into one, led by the soul of their former leader Naga, whose appearance the aggregate takes.

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Exactly. They were childhood friends, but it didn't 'feel' like they could be lovers, but just sibling like.

The impression I got from Geoffrey's Elincia and Calill supports in PoR was that he struggles to tame his wild romantic love for Elincia.

 

[Thany]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

"The Sacred Stone has you trapped." - Requires a literal plot device mcguffin crystal to stop Ephraim.

I dont recall Ephraim being the demon lord, unless there was a part in ephraims story where sacred stones work on humans.

But i guess you just dont like his over confidence attitude. I can understand that. still he can be a strong fighter if he ever appears in the game someday down the line.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Thany

[Interdimensional Observer]

2 minutes ago, Thany said:

I dont recall Ephraim being the demon lord, unless there was a part in ephraims story where sacred stones work on humans.

 

I think they misunderstand the end of Ephraim C18- where Lyon uses a random spell, not the SS of Renais, to paralyze Ephraim. I think that is what they meant judging from the latter half of that statement.

[SSbardock84]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

"I don't pick fights I can't win." - Picks a fight with the Grado Empire. 

"You're surrounded." - Escapes perfectly.

"The Sacred Stone has you trapped." - Requires a literal plot device mcguffin crystal to stop Ephraim. 

Need I go on?

These don't seem like valid points lol. In any case I thought you were going to say something about him as a unit not a character.

[Anacybele]

16 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The impression I got from Geoffrey's Elincia and Calill supports in PoR was that he struggles to tame his wild romantic love for Elincia.

I feel more like Callil just made it look that way. Geoffrey hardly got a word in after she assumed he was in love with Elincia. It's possible that he is though, given that he's kind of obsessed with her to the point where he cares more about her than he does his country. :/ Seriously, Geoffrey, your priorities are dumb. You're a knight, and the general of the knights no less. You're supposed to put your country as a whole first.

And I still feel like Elincia looks at Geoffrey more like family than anything. But everybody has different views and interpretations and that's fine.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Anacybele

[Sentinel07]

42 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I feel more like Callil just made it look that way. Geoffrey hardly got a word in after she assumed he was in love with Elincia. It's possible that he is though, given that he's kind of obsessed with her to the point where he cares more about her than he does his country. :/ Seriously, Geoffrey, your priorities are dumb. You're a knight, and the general of the knights no less. You're supposed to put your country as a whole first.

And I still feel like Elincia looks at Geoffrey more like family than anything. But everybody has different views and interpretations and that's fine.

I completely agree. I always thought that was one of RD's dumber endings, so much that I never did it after my first playthrough. I saw zero romantic intent from Elincia.

But then again, RD as a whole sucked with romance. I don't think it had a single pairing I liked.