Bound Hero Battle: The Restoration Twins

[gralbeord]

47 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

I understand people who are better at this than I am, or people with higher merges / higher si units want some other challenges, but I feel trying to make it infernal might end up blocking too many people out. 

I always thought the Lunatic Chain Challenges, especially, were enough of a challenge for higher players, especially those with reinforcements and time limits. I could be wrong, though. I literally still fail to beat those, but at least it's not on a time limit. I don't like the idea of time limited quests that are too hard for too many players, personally. 

while it is nice if everyone gets to do everything, there is a certain point where you need to be making new content for the endgame on a regular basis. Otherwise people get to the higher levels and get bored and quit. It does suck for the people who can't do the content but it incentivizes learning game strategy and improving unit builds. Lunatic chain is a different kind of challenge because you are more focused on specific counter-play to make best use of the units you are fielding. Not saying GHB is the best place for this kind of stuff, but there isn't anywhere else in the game right now where they could put it

[Cute Chao]

7 minutes ago, gralbeord said:

while it is nice if everyone gets to do everything, there is a certain point where you need to be making new content for the endgame on a regular basis. Otherwise people get to the higher levels and get bored and quit. It does suck for the people who can't do the content but it incentivizes learning game strategy and improving unit builds. Lunatic chain is a different kind of challenge because you are more focused on specific counter-play to make best use of the units you are fielding. Not saying GHB is the best place for this kind of stuff, but there isn't anywhere else in the game right now where they could put it

I'm not saying they shouldn't put harder content in, but in the end, time limited quests would just put off the players that can't do it. I already know several people that have already been put off and have either left the game or only play it for the free pulls - plus Hilda mentioned the complaints from players about Legion's mode that were apparently enough to make them scale it back again.

I know I've stopped playing several games because it got to a point where it felt like the majority of things added were only for whales or very high level players and it didn't care about lower level players any more. 

In my opinion, they should be done in quests that aren't time sensitive. That way, they can be worked towards but there isn't that pressure to do it straight away and the lower level players can work towards it, like the Lunatic Chain, which is still in the game for higher level players even if it is a different challenge than maybe you wish for. Forcing you to complete X with X unit on Infernal in X amount of time just feels like an even more artificial and lazy way to increase difficulty, and people can do that to challenge themselves anyway without leaving other players out of rewards. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Cute Chao

[gralbeord]

1 minute ago, Cute Chao said:

I'm not saying they shouldn't put harder content in, but in the end, time limited quests would just put off the players that can't do it. I already know several people that have already been put off and have either left the game or only play it for the free pulls - plus Hilda mentioned the complaints from players about Legion's mode that were apparently enough to make them scale it back again.

I know I've stopped playing several games because it got to a point where it felt like the majority of things added were only for whales or very high level players and it didn't care about lower level players any more. 

In my opinion, they should be done in quests that aren't time sensitive. That way, they can be worked towards but there isn't that pressure to do it straight away and the lower level players can work towards it, like the Lunatic Chain, which is still in the game for higher level players even if it is a different challenge than maybe you wish for. Forcing you to complete X with X unit on Infernal in X amount of time just feels lazy, and people can do that to challenge themselves anyway without leaving other players out of rewards. 

to that end though there's not much else they can do in that regard without just straight up not putting out content. they already make it where there aren't any missions that involve clearing infernal. the only thing forcing anyone to do infernal is their own obsessions with clearing all content. When you hit the mentality that "only whales can do this" you have already dismissed the strategic elements of the game. and once again, while it does suck that they are time limited, there isn't anywhere else to put them without creating a new mode, at which point people would just complain that they made another mode that only whales can do.

[ShadowYoshi]

So I have an old clear recorded on my channel, but it involves Ephraim so it wasn't a solo. And for some reason I haven't shared this particular BHB on Serenes. Don't worry, I can fix this, and with a better version too! (warning, involves a lot of Draw Backs)

 

[Cute Chao]

3 minutes ago, gralbeord said:

to that end though there's not much else they can do in that regard without just straight up not putting out content. they already make it where there aren't any missions that involve clearing infernal. the only thing forcing anyone to do infernal is their own obsessions with clearing all content. When you hit the mentality that "only whales can do this" you have already dismissed the strategic elements of the game. and once again, while it does suck that they are time limited, there isn't anywhere else to put them without creating a new mode, at which point people would just complain that they made another mode that only whales can do.

I'm not saying they should make it easier for the people that left, but I am saying if they get the balance wrong then more might leave. And Infernal is not time sensitive in that it does come back, especially with the boring BHB reruns, which at least give people a chance to do that Infernal mode again. 

But if they made the quests to use X unit onto Infernal, I feel it's going too far. Not only do they bring a map back which blocks a player like me from receiving the orbs I've already received, but now they're bringing missions that become a bit too much. I'm not sure if I can or can't do it on Infernal mode, but I've found having to do it on Lunatic mode is frustrating enough for several missions, and I've also found people giving their own challenges out for the people who do want it in a different way - like the ones who issue challenges online for the prestige of their peers instead of straight up game rewards like orbs. 

I don't see the problem with only wanting really hard content (to the type that will keep extremely skilled players or highly merged / si'd players happy) away from time limited quests. Quests that come back, maybe. I didn't have a problem with Legion's map being hard (even though I looked for guides for it). I'm just afraid of there coming to be a point where guides won't work because you have to have a certain strength or level of SI to be able to beat them and even guides no longer being able to help on time sensitive missions. 

[gralbeord]

2 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

I'm not saying they should make it easier for the people that left, but I am saying if they get the balance wrong then more might leave. And Infernal is not time sensitive in that it does come back, especially with the boring BHB reruns, which at least give people a chance to do that Infernal mode again. 

But if they made the quests to use X unit onto Infernal, I feel it's going too far. Not only do they bring a map back which blocks a player like me from receiving the orbs I've already received, but now they're bringing missions that become a bit too much. I'm not sure if I can or can't do it on Infernal mode, but I've found having to do it on Lunatic mode is frustrating enough for several missions, and I've also found people giving their own challenges out for the people who do want it in a different way - like the ones who issue challenges online for the prestige of their peers instead of straight up game rewards like orbs. 

I don't see the problem with only wanting really hard content (to the type that will keep extremely skilled players or highly merged / si'd players happy) away from time limited quests. Quests that come back, maybe. I didn't have a problem with Legion's map being hard (even though I looked for guides for it). I'm just afraid of there coming to be a point where guides won't work because you have to have a certain strength or level of SI to be able to beat them and even guides no longer being able to help on time sensitive missions. 

I get that fear, but that's a matter of implementation, not design. I definitely have no plans to do hilda's challenge (partially because I just really don't like Alphonse) but it's not as if they would just throw it out to the wild without balancing it. In all honesty I think they haven't done it yet because they don't have a way of making infernal balanced for f2p while still making it hard, which is honestly more consideration than I expect from them in the first place. They are not without precedence for time limited content that f2p player can't reasonably do, and they don't lock anything of special value behind infernal (we can argue about the true value of 4 orbs elsewhere). FGO has challenge quests that expect a lvl 90 team average (nothing you get for free in that game can reach lvl 90 by default)and PAD has had high level dungeon rotations for years that lock out characters you cant get otherwise. If they start locking content (unique or rare materials) behind infernal that's another story, but at the end of the day they are rewards for a reason and I don't see anything wrong with rewarding players for becoming better at your game.

[Cute Chao]

5 minutes ago, gralbeord said:

I get that fear, but that's a matter of implementation, not design. I definitely have no plans to do hilda's challenge (partially because I just really don't like Alphonse) but it's not as if they would just throw it out to the wild without balancing it. In all honesty I think they haven't done it yet because they don't have a way of making infernal balanced for f2p while still making it hard, which is honestly more consideration than I expect from them in the first place. They are not without precedence for time limited content that f2p player can't reasonably do, and they don't lock anything of special value behind infernal (we can argue about the true value of 4 orbs elsewhere). FGO has challenge quests that expect a lvl 90 team average (nothing you get for free in that game can reach lvl 90 by default)and PAD has had high level dungeon rotations for years that lock out characters you cant get otherwise. If they start locking content (unique or rare materials) behind infernal that's another story, but at the end of the day they are rewards for a reason and I don't see anything wrong with rewarding players for becoming better at your game.

I feel we're arguing the same thing now? I feel like if they do it well so there can still be guides on YT that mean f2p units can still be used to complete them, then that's still a fine level of difficulty. However, I felt that others were mentioning harder than that, so they can use their higher merged units or higher si'd units. This game is currently pretty good at balancing, imo. I really don't want to see it become like you mentioned, or like Tales of Link, which put me off by having huge difficulty spikes that often made no sense to me (maybe others see that one differently but even following the advice online, you had to have the right units). So that's my fear and why I don't want things that can't be completed by ftp units on time limited quests. Quests that are always around, fine, because then people actually can become better at them by having a chance to have a stab at them without the pressure of knowing they'll be gone. I don't see how people can become better just by dangling rewards for a few days that are then gone forever, whether it's 'just' an orb or not. 

[gralbeord]

8 minutes ago, Cute Chao said:

I feel we're arguing the same thing now? I feel like if they do it well so there can still be guides on YT that mean f2p units can still be used to complete them, then that's still a fine level of difficulty. However, I felt that others were mentioning harder than that, so they can use their higher merged units or higher si'd units. This game is currently pretty good at balancing, imo. I really don't want to see it become like you mentioned, or like Tales of Link, which put me off by having huge difficulty spikes that often made no sense to me (maybe others see that one differently but even following the advice online, you had to have the right units). So that's my fear and why I don't want things that can't be completed by ftp units on time limited quests. Quests that are always around, fine, because then people actually can become better at them by having a chance to have a stab at them without the pressure of knowing they'll be gone. I don't see how people can become better just by dangling rewards for a few days that are then gone forever, whether it's 'just' an orb or not. 

Huh, yeah I think I figured out where the miscommunication was. Regardless, IS unfortunately did not include an achievement system in FEH so shame that it is, all quests are time locked. The fact that there are no infernal missions is basically your answer to that last comment, you don't lose anything by not being able to do infernal, you just get stuck waiting till next time since its always gonna be the same reward.

[Punished Dayni]

Tried to do the missions in Lunatic with Bride Lyn. Failed, went for Sonya.

Team of 5* Alfonse, Sharena, Anna and Sonya. Sonya tanks the green mage first (because the blue mage doesn't bother to fight her) and then I pull back a bit. Then the sword cav fights Sharena on enemy phase and loses to Alfonse on player phase, Sharena moves to fight Eirika who gets Luna'd to death and Anna then has to move in to take out both blue mage and Ephraim.

Would you believe it but Alfonse and Sharena got to S rank right afterwards too. (Probably deserve all the disgusting memes my way)

[Hilda]

3 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

I feel we're arguing the same thing now? I feel like if they do it well so there can still be guides on YT that mean f2p units can still be used to complete them, then that's still a fine level of difficulty. However, I felt that others were mentioning harder than that, so they can use their higher merged units or higher si'd units. This game is currently pretty good at balancing, imo. I really don't want to see it become like you mentioned, or like Tales of Link, which put me off by having huge difficulty spikes that often made no sense to me (maybe others see that one differently but even following the advice online, you had to have the right units). So that's my fear and why I don't want things that can't be completed by ftp units on time limited quests. Quests that are always around, fine, because then people actually can become better at them by having a chance to have a stab at them without the pressure of knowing they'll be gone. I don't see how people can become better just by dangling rewards for a few days that are then gone forever, whether it's 'just' an orb or not. 

I am not saying they should get rid of the Lunatic quests, thats fine to stay. However i would like Infernal quests that "Clear Infernal with Alphonse, Anna and Sharena in your Team" that reward you with something. It can be orbs, it can be weapon Reforge stones or hell even merged levels for the Askar Trio.
Noone is forcing others to do those quests, besides almost all GHB & BHB Infernal modes could be cleared with some basic skill inheritance and the Askar trio, the ecxeption was BHB Tana&Amelia (that one required some massiv exclusiv SI for Anna Sharena, Alfonse + Fjorm to be cleared). And no their partner doesnt even need to be Reinhardt or some other strong unit. Wrys/Fjorm etc is allready enough. Some dont even require any Skill inheritance at all.

I mean those 3 are the staple characters of FEH and they are barely used in quests... seriously ¬.¬

People also seem to forget that Units have gotten quite alot stronger with the Weapon Reforge and bloatet BST. And alot of F2P longtime players have quite some merged units. It is really time to up the challenge again either by designing the battle harder (which is a bad Idea imho, because it cuts out new players) or by adding additional Quests that require you to use the Askartrio together for an additional reward.

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by Hilda

[Poimagic]

Just got my first horse emblem clear on this map. Team was Reinhardt, Brave Lyn, Sigurd, and Eldigan. Ironically, Eldigan did nothing and yet Rienhardt was the weakest link, not being able to kill anything on the map besides the sword Cav and Ephriam. And this map made me love Sigurd's gimmick even more, because he tanked both the Blue Mage and green mage.

[Infinite Dreams]

16 hours ago, Infinite Dreams said:

For fun, I tried doing all of the quest requirements in one go on Infernal.  Success!  

Team: Laslow, Olivia, Sharena, and Anna.

My first attempt at making a video, hehe:

  Hide contents

 

 

Hey guys, I got a message from YouTube saying my video was flagged because it violates their guidelines, but I'm not sure why because nobody else seems to be having this problem & their videos seem similar to mine?  This is the first time I've tried uploading one, so I'm kinda clueless.  Does anyone know why this happened?

[Poimagic]

2 hours ago, Infinite Dreams said:

Hey guys, I got a message from YouTube saying my video was flagged because it violates their guidelines, but I'm not sure why because nobody else seems to be having this problem & their videos seem similar to mine?  This is the first time I've tried uploading one, so I'm kinda clueless.  Does anyone know why this happened?

It might be the music on the video, as IS has been very harsh about FeH music lately.

[Infinite Dreams]

2 hours ago, Poimagic said:

It might be the music on the video, as IS has been very harsh about FeH music lately.

I had the music muted when I recorded it, though, so I know it can't be that.  Also, YouTube said I violated the community guidelines (and not a copyright thing).    I dunno, I'm so confused.  I asked them why it was removed, but haven't heard back yet.  I looked through YT's community guidelines, and I can't think of any that the video is in violation of... It's just a recording of me clearing the stage, after all!  

[Cute Chao]

9 hours ago, Hilda said:

I am not saying they should get rid of the Lunatic quests, thats fine to stay. However i would like Infernal quests that "Clear Infernal with Alphonse, Anna and Sharena in your Team" that reward you with something. It can be orbs, it can be weapon Reforge stones or hell even merged levels for the Askar Trio.
Noone is forcing others to do those quests, besides almost all GHB & BHB Infernal modes could be cleared with some basic skill inheritance and the Askar trio, the ecxeption was BHB Tana&Amelia (that one required some massiv exclusiv SI for Anna Sharena, Alfonse + Fjorm to be cleared). And no their partner doesnt even need to be Reinhardt or some other strong unit. Wrys/Fjorm etc is allready enough. Some dont even require any Skill inheritance at all.

I mean those 3 are the staple characters of FEH and they are barely used in quests... seriously ¬.¬

People also seem to forget that Units have gotten quite alot stronger with the Weapon Reforge and bloatet BST. And alot of F2P longtime players have quite some merged units. It is really time to up the challenge again either by designing the battle harder (which is a bad Idea imho, because it cuts out new players) or by adding additional Quests that require you to use the Askartrio together for an additional reward.

 

It's a bit iffy to me. If they made it so that it can be done with all three without heavy SI, then that might be fine. It feels like forcing people to use units they might not want to, but at least everyone has them. If it starts including the need for heavy SI, too, though, then it might be a bit too restricting. I'm not sure. I really don't want to have to use my only Steady Breath on Alfonse, for instance xD But oh well. If they ever bring it in, we can see how it goes :)

[KMT4ever]

Managed to clear Infernal with the same all-infantry team I've been using for the Tempest Trial. No Reinhardt, no B!Lyn, no dancers, just the way I like it.

1. Julia (as always): S-supports with summoner and Lucina; Divine Naga; Fury 3, QR2, BoL3; Atk+3 seal
2. Lucina: S-support with Julia; Darting Blow 3, Vantage 3, Spur Atk 3; Spd+3 seal
3. B!Lucina+2: Sturdy Blow 2, Vantage 3, Drive Spd 3; Hone Spd 3 seal
4. Lachesis (literally unnecessary)

After all of the buffs laid down Julia ends up with 63 Atk and 44 Spd, which combined with Divine Naga made this hilariously easy. Rallies? What Rallies?

[Hilda]

2 hours ago, Cute Chao said:

It's a bit iffy to me. If they made it so that it can be done with all three without heavy SI, then that might be fine. It feels like forcing people to use units they might not want to, but at least everyone has them. If it starts including the need for heavy SI, too, though, then it might be a bit too restricting. I'm not sure. I really don't want to have to use my only Steady Breath on Alfonse, for instance xD But oh well. If they ever bring it in, we can see how it goes :)

but they are doable without heavy SI, with one ecxeption being Tana&Amelia BHB. altough i have to tackle the Valter rerun too.

[Humanoid]

Having more difficult BHBs and GHBs would be more palatable if they weren't time limited. No good reason why they should be time limited in the first place, just shove the old ones in a submenu of Special Maps, everyone wins.

[mampfoid]

The rewards for solving infernal missions could be symbolic, like badges you see in Arena, in rankings, friend lists etc. 

[Cute Chao]

22 minutes ago, Hilda said:

but they are doable without heavy SI, with one ecxeption being Tana&Amelia BHB. altough i have to tackle the Valter rerun too.

Exactly. If that's the case, I'm all for it :)

But then there is that exception. Does that mean the quest isn't there for those ones? Or they'll change it around? Or just leave it for only those who have the resources to invest in those characters? I'm not sure, but oh well. So long as it isn't for orbs or rocks, but I feel like it would be for orbs... and the bhb reruns are so painful as it is I'm loathe to think of having to leave behind any reward for them >.<

[MrSmokestack]

10 hours ago, Infinite Dreams said:

I had the music muted when I recorded it, though, so I know it can't be that.  Also, YouTube said I violated the community guidelines (and not a copyright thing).    I dunno, I'm so confused.  I asked them why it was removed, but haven't heard back yet.  I looked through YT's community guidelines, and I can't think of any that the video is in violation of... It's just a recording of me clearing the stage, after all!  

Don't worry about it. Youtube is very very arbitrary about enforcing their rules, and even then the reason it got taken down probably had nothing to do with something on your end.

[BANRYU]

how are y'all managing with the quests that want you to kill Ephraim and Eirika with Anna and Sharena? (especially the Ephraim vs Anna one, jeez)

I actually made my arena defense team the twins sans weapons, but IDK if anyone will think to try the Arena Assault trick for that (I did and got nothin). 

[LordFrigid]

33 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

how are y'all managing with the quests that want you to kill Ephraim and Eirika with Anna and Sharena? (especially the Ephraim vs Anna one, jeez)

I actually made my arena defense team the twins sans weapons, but IDK if anyone will think to try the Arena Assault trick for that (I did and got nothin). 

Starting on P6 there’s a challenge for completing all quests in Infernal issued by @SatsumaFSoysoy. Usually the people doing them post videos. Replicability varies, but I’m sure at least one of them could be adapted for Lunatic. Mine required Sword Ike (Vantage), 4* Maria (Rehabilitate, Live to Serve 1, some sort of deal to get her to 34+ Spd), Sharena (various inheritance that may not be needed for Lunatic), and Anna (various inheritance that may not be needed for Lunatic), if that’s something you might be able to make use of.

Edited January 8, 2018 by LordFrigid

[BANRYU]

2 hours ago, LordFrigid said:

Starting on P6 there’s a challenge for completing all quests in Infernal issued by @SatsumaFSoysoy. Usually the people doing them post videos. Replicability varies, but I’m sure at least one of them could be adapted for Lunatic. Mine required Sword Ike (Vantage), 4* Maria (Rehabilitate, Live to Serve 1, some sort of deal to get her to 34+ Spd), Sharena (various inheritance that may not be needed for Lunatic), and Anna (various inheritance that may not be needed for Lunatic), if that’s something you might be able to make use of.

oh I gotcha :0 I'll see what I can do with that. I'm def not likely gonna be able to manage Satsuma's challenge since my Sharena and Anna are only 3* lv40 atm lol. As far as the individual orbs go I should be able to manage something. Thanks!

[Cute Chao]

4 hours ago, BANRYU said:

how are y'all managing with the quests that want you to kill Ephraim and Eirika with Anna and Sharena? (especially the Ephraim vs Anna one, jeez)

I actually made my arena defense team the twins sans weapons, but IDK if anyone will think to try the Arena Assault trick for that (I did and got nothin). 

I just used the lunatic chain challenge for their paralogue. I always prefer killing them in story battles if I can, since I don't need to them worry about anyone dying, so long as the right people kill the right people.