General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Xenomata]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Galeforce activating will prevent Canto from activating at the same time, meaning Canto will end up activating on the second round of combat. However, the self-inflicted Gravity will cause Canto (Rem.) to be mostly worthless because it will count his movement range as 1 instead of the usual 3.

That's essentially the same as Canto (1) on Scion Leif/Seliph, albeit worse since Leif will probably need to use the one move he's allowed to actually reach whoever he's trying to attack.

[Ice Dragon]

12 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

That's essentially the same as Canto (1) on Scion Leif/Seliph, albeit worse since Leif will probably need to use the one move he's allowed to actually reach whoever he's trying to attack.

The Canto (1) on Harmonized Leaf was there specifically to reference Noba's Zeal, as it provides the same 1 movement, but without the ability to attack again.

The only thing that giving Far Trace to Legendary Leaf does is allow him to choose whether to attack then move or to move then attack with the 1 movement he has after Galeforce activates, which is a really minor benefit given that it costs him half of a skill slot.

[Xenomata]

Haven't seen this posted in a bit.

[Diovani Bressan]

We should get Peony and Triandra Thrasir remixes next month, with the speculation of each Mythic getting their own banner now considering the amount of units scheduled for February.

I am looking forward for these refinements, since I use Peony in every Light season and Triandra needs some help. I remember when she was a threat back when she released in 2019.

For Peony, I would like for her to grant "nullifies unit's penalties during combat" status effect when refreshing allies in her refinement or remix, so she can work as a Yune counter.

Next month's seasonal refinement should be New Year Alfonse & Sharena, so I don't think we will see Dimitri or Forsyth next month. 

I can see the New Power banner taking one of these two forms:

• NY Alfonse, Edelgard, Norne and Catria
• NY Alfonse, Byleth, Nagi and Silque

Sigurn will be the Grail refinement.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Diovani Bressan
Correcting a wrong name.

[Othin]

39 minutes ago, Diovani Bressan said:

We should get Peony and Triandra remixes next month, with the speculation of each Mythic getting their own banner now considering the amount of units scheduled for February.

I am looking forward for these refinements, since I use Peony in every Light season and Triandra needs some help. I remember when she was a threat back when she released in 2019.

For Peony, I would like for her to grant "nullifies unit's penalties during combat" status effect when refreshing allies in her refinement or remix, so she can work as a Yune counter.

Next month's seasonal refinement should be New Year Alfonse & Sharena, so I don't think we will see Dimitri or Forsyth next month. 

I can see the New Power banner taking one of these two forms:

• NY Alfonse, Edelgard, Norne and Catria
• NY Alfonse, Byleth, Nagi and Silque

Sigurn will be the Grail refinement.

Do you mean Peony and Thrasir? Triandra is much later.

[Diovani Bressan]

1 hour ago, Othin said:

Do you mean Peony and Thrasir? Triandra is much later.

Oh sorry. Yeah, I meant Thrasir.

Triandra will not get her remix at least until later 2023/early 2024.

[Xenomata]

10 hours ago, Diovani Bressan said:

We should get Peony and Triandra Thrasir remixes next month, with the speculation of each Mythic getting their own banner now considering the amount of units scheduled for February.

I don't think we've had a dual Mythic remix yet, so I think Legendary Celica would be a more likely appearance alongside Peony, assuming they don't care about the two remix units sharing the same unit type (Green Tome Infantry) and letting her go with Thrasir.

Edited January 23, 2023 by Xenomata

[Othin]

31 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

I don't think we've had a dual Mythic remix yet, so I think Legendary Celica would be a more likely appearance alongside Peony, assuming they don't care about the two remix units sharing the same unit type (Green Tome Infantry) and letting her go with Thrasir.

I think it's just that they haven't had reason to have reason to have dual mythic before, and now they do. Peony was the first mythic released immediately after another mythic, without a legendary in between. That mythic wasn't Thrasir, but still, the result is skewing the oldest part of the lineup more towards mythics than before.

[Diovani Bressan]

13 hours ago, Xenomata said:

I don't think we've had a dual Mythic remix yet, so I think Legendary Celica would be a more likely appearance alongside Peony, assuming they don't care about the two remix units sharing the same unit type (Green Tome Infantry) and letting her go with Thrasir.

12 hours ago, Othin said:

I think it's just that they haven't had reason to have reason to have dual mythic before, and now they do. Peony was the first mythic released immediately after another mythic, without a legendary in between. That mythic wasn't Thrasir, but still, the result is skewing the oldest part of the lineup more towards mythics than before.

 

Considering we may have 2 remix banners now (that's the speculation at least), I don't see a problem in having 2 Mythic remixes in the same month. Last year they started to do 2 Legendary Banners in a row, and it was something we didn't had before... so twi mythic remixes could be something new as well.

By the way, Celica is not scheduled for next month. She is scheduled for March's Remix. She should get a remix alongside Bramimond... or even alone, like how Azura was the only remixed unit in March last year.

If they decide to not do 2 Mythics at the same time, then my guess will be Peony & Chrom. I this case, I believe they will do Peony before Thrasir (even though Thrasir released before her), because looks like they like to do remixes for Book OCs in the anniversary. 

[GuiltyLove]

 

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH CATRIAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[Xenomata]

So... yes Catria is one of 7 units being refined this month.

• Astra Blade, for Sword Flier Catria: Mild Middle Sister (Grants Atk+3. If unit's Atk > foe's Def, boosts damage by 50% of unit's Atk minus foe's Def.)
• Noble Lance, for Lance Cavalier Dimitri: The Protector (Grants Atk+3. At start of combat, if both unit's and foe's HP = 100% or if both unit's and foe's HP < 100%, unit makes a guaranteed follow-up attack.)
• Command Lance is a new weapon for Lance Flier Sigrun: Loyal Protector (Default Weapon: Reprisal Lance (If foe initiates combat, grants Atk +6 during combat )
• Flower of Joy, part of the remix for Mythic Blue Tome Flier Peony: Sweet Dream (Grants Res+3. Grants Atk/Spd+3 to any ally in a cardinal direction from unit during that ally's combat.)
• Ífingr, part of the remix for Mythic Green Tome Infantry Thrasir: Omnicidal Witch (Effective against dragon foes. If unit is within 3 spaces of an ally, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 and neutralizes effects that guarantee foe's follow-up attacks during combat, but after combat, if unit attacked, inflicts Atk/Spd/Def/ Res-4 on nearest ally through its next action.)
• Guardian Fang, for Green Beast Cavalry Lethe: New Year's Claw (Grants Spd+3. If unit's Spd > foe's Spd, deals damage = 70% of difference between stats. (Maximum bonus of +7 damage. Combos with Phantom Spd.) If unit's Spd > foe's Spd, reduces damage from attacks during combat and from area-of-effect Specials (excluding Røkkr area-of-effect Specials) by percentage = difference between stats × 4 (max 40%) .At start of turn, if unit is adjacent to only beast or dragon allies or if unit is not adjacent to any ally, unit transforms (otherwise, unit reverts). If unit transforms, grants Atk+2, and if unit initiates combat, inflicts Atk/Def-4 on foe during combat and foe cannot make a follow-up attack.  )
• Volunteer Bow, a new weapon for Colorless Bow Infantry Norne: The Volunteer (Default Weapon: Guard Bow (Effective against flying foes. Grants Def/Res+6 during combat if unit is attacked by foe using bow, daggers, magic, or staff.)

[Diovani Bressan]

I already expected this batch after looking at the Valentine Banner leak, since Lethe appeared there as arena bonus unit.

Looking forward for the mythic remixes, especially Peony. I would like her Cross Spur Atk/Spd effect to be boosted to be like Gratekeeper's. Outside Peony, I am only interested on Dimitri, who needs a lot of help.

So... for March's refinements:

If we get New Year Selkie as season, we should get:

• Legendary/Mythic: Celica and Bramimond;
• Grail: Astram
• Seasonal: NY Selkie;
• Normal Heroes: Edelgard, Bantu and Forsyth.

But if we get New Year Alfonse & Sharena, we could have:

• Legendary/Mythic: Celica and Bramimond;
• Grail: Astram
• Seasonal: NY Alfonse & Sharena;
• Normal Heroes: Edelgard, Bantu and Silque.

We could get Byleth instead of Edelgard. If that happens, then Bantu changes for Nagi.

Edited February 3, 2023 by Diovani Bressan

[Humanoid]

Hmm, no one I've built is going to appear for the next couple batches then. For the common units, Norne may be a chance since I'm yet to +10 any archers, but no chance for Sigrun as she's a TT unit and therefore too expensive to get. For the Mythics, Peony only gets it if PM1 starts using the refine for F2P guides, while I have no use for a defense mythic like Thrasir. For the general pool units, I sadly don't have Catria, and I don't like how Dimitri looks. And finally Lethe ...I guess I'm channeling my inner Shinon because I struggle to tell the Tellius cats apart and can't remember what this one does or if I even have her.

Next month's is looking pretty thin too. Celica probably the only realistic option.

[GuiltyLove]

3 minutes ago, Humanoid said:

And finally Lethe ...I guess I'm channeling my inner Shinon because I struggle to tell the Tellius cats apart and can't remember what this one does or if I even have her.

i mean they all look the same and are filthy subhumans

[Ice Dragon]

The usual translation notes:

Command Lance is "神使親衛隊隊長の槍" (shinshi shin'eitai taichō no yari), "Lance of the Captain of the Apostle's Elite Guard". "神使親衛隊隊長" (shinshi shin'eitai taichō), "Captain of the Apostle's Elite Guard", is localized as "Commander of the Holy Guard".

Volunteer Bow is "義勇兵の弓" (giyūhei no yumi), "Volunteer Soldier's Bow".

 

And my hopes, predictions, and other analysis:

Sigrun: Command Lance

Currently has Reprisal Lance, which grants Fierce Stance 3.

Sigrun has a fairly typical stat spread for an older pegasus knight, having less Atk and Spd than modern pegasus knights, but more Def, while having a more typical Res stat. Four-star fast lance fliers are a very saturated unit archetype, so she'll likely get something unique to set her apart from the others, but I won't bother trying to predict it.

Norne: Volunteer Bow

Currently has Guard Bow, which grants Distant Def 3.

Norne is a moderately fast infantry bow with less Atk in exchange for more HP and Def. She was originally released as a fast version of Faye, but never really caught on because ranged attackers have always needed too many skill effects to actually tank, and units that can't get access to enough of those effects at once with a combination of their weapon and passive skills are simply not viable.

If they want to have Norne actually be a fast ranged tank, she needs a sizable boost to her Spd to catch up to modern units and additional sources of bulk, like Dodge or flat damage reduction, like Duo Askr or Gotoh, though I wouldn't expect her to actually get those as a 4-star unit. Bulwark would also be nice to have since she can't get the effect normally.

Echoes Catria: Astra Blade

Current effect is:

• Permanent +3 Atk
• If unit's Atk is higher than opponent's Def:
  • Deals additional damage equal to 50% of the difference between unit's Atk and opponent's Def

Catria really just wants more Atk and Spd. It would also be nice to get something like Dive Bomb on her weapon to open up her B slot for Seal Def 4 or a Flow or Trace skill.

Dimitri: Noble Lance

Current effect is:

• Permanent +3 Atk
• If unit's HP and opponent's HP are 100% at start of combat or unit's HP and opponent's HP are 99% or lower at start of combat:
  • Guaranteed follow-up

If they choose to keep the base effect's condition intact, all they really need to make it reliable is to give it Savage Blow and Push.

On release, Dimitri was a decent Galeforce unit with Heavy Blade and Savage Blow, and it would be nice if they would also give his weapon a Special charge rate boost so that he isn't reliant on the Heavy Blade Sacred Seal and trying to satisfy a condition that is much harder to win with how high Atk stats can get now. Furthermore, having too high of an Atk stat to try to win the stat comparison can be a detriment for Galeforce units simply because it makes it more difficult to leave the opponent alive to actually land the follow-up attack to charge Galeforce.

Peony: Flower of Joy

Current effect is:

• Permanent +3 Res
• Grants +3 Atk/Spd in combat to allies in orthogonal directions from unit

Peony's remix upgrades Gentle Dream to grant +4 to all stats instead of the original +3 and now also grants penalty nullification as a status effect. The penalty nullification status effect presumably only applies to stat penalties, as it uses the same wording in Japanese as skills like Asura Blades.

Her new skill is Cross Spur Res, replacing Fortify Res 4.

It's likely that Flower of Joy's base effect will be boosted to +5 to match Cross Spur's effect.

As a support unit, there is any number of effects that could be added onto her weapon, either as start-of-turn effects or on-Dance effects, with a slight limitation that Peony focuses on applying buffs and not debuffs. Currently, the biggest threat in her Aether Raids season is Embla, who inflicts two extremely devastating debuffs that cannot be nullified by Gentle Dream+'s effect. While it would go against her theming to inflict debuffs, inflicting False Start would be the most useful effect she could have. However, if we explore novel effects, the ability to shield nearby units from being hit with debuffs in the first place would also be just as useful, even if it steps on Gentle Dreams+'s toes a bit.

Thrasir: Ifingr

Current effect is:

• Effective damage against dragons
• If there is an ally within 3 spaces:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • The defensive half of Null Follow-Up
  • If unit attacked in combat:
    • Inflicts -4 to all stats as a Penalty to closest allies after combat

Thrasir's remix upgrades Killing Intent to inflict Exposure at the start of the turn on the closest opponents within 5 spaces and all opponents within 2 spaces of them. Her new skill is Atk/Spd Ideal 4, replacing Flashing Blade 4.

Thrasir notably gets only the defensive half of Null Follow-Up despite really wanting the offensive half to pair with Killing Intent granting her the Desperation effect with a very lenient condition. Given that Killing Intent is a passive B skill, her only option right now to get the offensive half of Null Follow-Up is to use the Null Follow-Up Sacred Seal, which is not ideal. She should really get the offensive half of Null Follow-Up, too.

They removed the demerits from Lyfjaberg, but it's unclear if they intend to do so for the characters that remain affiliated with Hel (the location), as they left the "distributed recoil" effect of Kriemhild intact during its refine and recently added a new one with Morph Fimbulvetr. I don't think they would remove the effect, but if they wanted to, they could have her grant Grand Strategy to the units that receive her weapon's recoil effect.

And due to the fact that they are replacing Thrasir's Flashing Blade 4, she'll probably get some form of Special acceleration on her refine to make up for it and allow her to activate a 2-cooldown Special on her follow-up attack.

I'd also like to see her get the 50% reduction to the opponent's percentage damage reduction that Thjalfi has, especially since she has effective damage against dragons and modern dragons have a tendency to have percentage damage reduction effects.

New Year Lethe: Guardian Fang

Current effect is:

• Permanent +3 Spd
• If unit's Spd is higher than opponent's Spd:
  • Deals additional damage equal to 70% of the difference in Spd (maximum 7)
  • Dodge 3
• Standard beast transformation condition with standard beast cavalry transformation effect

Guardian Fang already has really good skill effects and really just wants more stats and one more skill effect to bring it up to par with more recent weapons. For comparison, Lumera's Monarch Blade has the same permanent +3 Spd and Dodge 3, deals damage equal to 15% of the user's Spd, has the Guard effect, and grants +5 to all stats.

Replacing the additional damage based on a stat difference with additional damage based on the stat itself has been a thing ever since Nino's Gigascalibur refine, so it's pretty likely Guardian Fang will get the same treatment.

The offensive half of Null Follow-Up would be nice to have so that she can run something other than Beast Agility or a Flow skill in her B slot, given that those are quite expensive and don't grant additional stats like Trace skills do.

More damage reduction for even stronger sustain would also be nice. Fixed damage reduction equal to a percentage of Lethe's Spd would be really nice to have since it is functionally boosted by the Dodge effect already on the weapon.

Extremely unlikely, but it's not outside of the realm of possibility to give her a conditional Distant Counter (probably based off of a Spd comparison) to reference the Beast-Tribe-exclusive Quickclaw skill. In Radiant Dawn, Kyza has the skill by default, but it's a Spd-based skill, so their Heroes version doesn't work particularly well for it even though it works fine for them in their source game.

 

 

And my overall thoughts:

There are a lot of refines that I'm looking forward to in this batch. Peony and Thrasir are a given since they're bound to be good and are on units that I use often enough. I have New Year Lethe at +10 merge from her most recent rerun and the copy of her from one of the holiday orb packs and have been waiting for her upcoming refine before attempting to build her. Catria and Dimitri are both units that were good on release, but have fallen off, and I'd like to be able to use them again.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Ice Dragon

[vikingsfan92]

I am excited for Sigrun's refine I have her +10 and have had her +10 for a while. Still need to get better skill fodder for her as my current skills are meh at best but with her refine I will have  a better idea of what skills I want.  I am also curious to see what they do with the beast refines. Not just Lethe but all of the ones yet to get one. Thrassir is one my most mythics so giving her a boost is nice.

Edited February 3, 2023 by vikingsfan92

[GuiltyLove]

Catria's refine is nice. Wish she got more though!

[Diovani Bressan]

Peony's refinement is a little disappointing... She can fight now at least, but that's whatever. I wished her healing was not behind her fighting first though.

At least Norne got a very good refinement, even though she is a demote.

[Xenomata]

Catria gets what amounts to All Stat +8 and the Grimoire-Warp effect. She also has a Clash effect that REALLY wants someone to move 4 spaces to get the highest effect possible, which is... something? That'd require Catria to warp to a space 2 spaces from an ally that is exactly 2 spaces away from herself. Still, at worst it's an effective +4 Atk for her so why complain?

So much for a fair fight, eh Dimitri? Both his base effect and refine effect can trigger if the enemy is at least mostly healthy, a damage boost/reduction based on his Atk, and partial Damage Reduction ignorance.
...sigh... I suppose Edelgard is next... can't wait for Team Galeforce meta...

Sigrun mostly statballs now, and with the 40% damage reduction on her first attack AND post-combat healing, she should be quite annoying to try and kill without a Bow weapon or guaranteed follow-ups.

So I... guess Dancer refines are going to mostly be offense based, and only kind of touch their support effects...that's very lame. The only time my dancers see combat is whenI  Ieave them in range of combat I know they can survive, and Peony isn't surviving crap without Triangle Adept (which at least Azura had the decency to carry in her refine...)

I guess Thrasir's penalty effect can sometimes be helpful, but... I'd still rather they did away with it. Other units have been able to access similar to it without hurting their allies...
Otherwise, stat boosts acceerate special trigger combine it with her remixed Prf passive for massive returns.

Apparently Lethe is so fast that if they upgraded the Spd Puissance effect to damage equal to 15%-20% of her Spd, that would be too powerful. Oh no definitely not complaining [/sarcasm]. Otherwise she just gets Atk/Spd +10, Phantom Spd 3, and Null Follow-up. Not gonna lie, I was hoping for something good for her and this is kind of disappointing...

Norne's refine is... perfectly alright. Not broken or anything, but it does give her a bit more identity, make her somewhat bulky.

[vikingsfan92]

I have a +10 Sigrun and its nice seeing huge + stats numbers. Have got to see +31 attack a couple times and probably can see higher numbers with a more optimized team.  Not sure what skills to go for fodder for he as I don't have the best skills on her and just have Attack/ Def form on her but it kind of fits with her new weapon so might keep it.

Edited February 6, 2023 by vikingsfan92

[Ice Dragon]

Sigrun: Command Lance

Base effect is:

• If there is an ally within 3 spaces:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • 40% damage reduction on opponent's first attack

Refine effect is:

• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Additional +2 to all stats in combat for each ally within 3 spaces (maximum +6)
  • 7 HP regeneration after combat

Total +8 to +14 to all stats based on the number of allies within 3 spaces. Also 40% damage reduction on the opponent's first attack and 7 HP regeneration after combat.

Her Res isn't amazing, but she does have the fifth highest base Res of all lance fliers at 38 with max Dragonflowers, and with an 8- to 14-point boost to Res from her weapon, she can probably viably run Flow Feather and have it activate on everything except super-bulky units.

If you're looking just to stack stats, Thea is better, but the damage reduction and HP regeneration are both relatively unique.

Norne: Volunteer Bow

Base effect is:

• Bow common effect
• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • If opponent's range is 2 (applies even with no weapon equipped):
    • -5 Atk/Def to opponent in combat
    • Nullifies opponent's positive stat bonuses (i.e. Dull Ranged 3)

Refine effect is:

• If there is an ally within 3 spaces:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Guard effect
  • 7 HP regeneration after combat

Total +8 to all stats, boosted to a total of +13/8/13/13 against ranged opponents. Also gets Guard, 7 HP regeneration after combat, and Dull Ranged 3.

Probably not enough of a boost to really make her viable as a ranged tank, especially since she didn't as much of a boost in Spd as she really needed. However, she did get both Guard and Dull Ranged, which frees up a lot of skill slots to run fancier skills, so it might still work out if you have the premium fodder for it. I'm thinking something like

Norne [+Spd / +Def / +Res]
Volunteer Bow [unique]
[Assist]
Deadeye
Def/Res Finish 4 / Spd/Res Finish 4
Quick Riposte 4
Time's Pulse 4
[Any Sacred Seal that boosts Spd/Def/Res] / Deflect Missile 3 / Deflect Magic 3

If Null Follow-Up 4 comes with a good secondary effect, it could also be an option for the B slot. She can also probably run an okay dual-phase build with Atk/Spd Tempo once it's released or a more player-phase build with a Remote skill in the A slot.

Not amazing, but I think it's still possible to make her work.

Echoes Catria: Astra Blade

Base effect is updated:

• Permanent +3 Atk
• If unit's Atk is higher than opponent's Def:
  • Additional damage equal to 50% of the difference between unit's Atk and opponent's Def
• With Blow-or-Unity condition:
  • +4 to all stats in combat (new)

Refine effect:

• Unit can teleport within 2 spaces of an ally within 2 spaces (i.e. Grimoire teleportation)
• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Boost to Atk and reduction to opponent's Def equal to 2 times the distance between attacker's starting and ending space (maximum ±8)

Lots of boosts to her damage output with a total effective +12/8/8/8 to a maximum +36/8/8/8 based on distance moved on top of what she had before her refine, including the additional damage from the built-in Glimmer effect. Grimoire teleportation also makes it extremely easy for her to move very far.

No Dive-Bomb or other defensive effect on her weapon, so she's still stuck either running Dive-Bomb or just aiming for one-hit kills. I'm not too keen on her ability to land one-hit kills due to the fact that percentage damage reduction on the opponent's first attack is a pretty common effect, but it might still work out. She'll probably be a terror with Duo Catria providing Triangle Attack support where you can get the best of both worlds. We seriously need an inheritable Warp Bubble skill.

Dimitri: Noble Lance

Base effect is updated:

• Permanent +3 Atk
• If unit's HP is 99% or lower or opponent's HP is 75% or higher at start of combat (changed from both 100% or both 99% or lower):
  • +4 to all stats in combat (new)
  • Guaranteed follow-up

Refine effect is:

• With Blow condition or if opponent's HP is 75% or lower at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Additional damage equal to 10% of Atk
  • Fixed damage reduction equal to 10% of Atk (excluding AoE Specials)
  • Reduces opponent's non-Special percentage damage reduction by 50%

Total +8 to all stats on top of what he already had (just +3 Atk) plus additional damage and damage reduction based on his Atk stat. Depending on the build and bonuses, this should come out to 8 or 9 points of additional damage and damage reduction before accounting for additional team support. The condition on the base effect has been loosened to be much easier to activate. The guaranteed follow-up is still there on the easier base condition, and he also nullifies half of the opponent's percentage damage reduction.

No Special charge rate boost is a bit of a bummer for anyone using him for Galeforce since it means he's stuck running Heavy Blade in a skill slot. While his weapon boosts his Atk by 11 points, it doesn't really make up for the fact that he has to lose an Atk-boosting skill slot to run Heavy Blade, and his base Atk stat isn't high enough to absorb that loss.

He's probably better now as a more traditional wall breaker, given he nullifies half of the opponent's percentage damage reduction and has good physical bulk. No Guard on his weapon means he'll want to run Guard 4 (or the slightly cheaper Flow Guard) to not immediately die to an opponent's Special.

Peony: Flower of Joy

Base effect is updated:

• Permanent +3 Res
• Grants +4 Atk/Spd in combat to allies in orthogonal directions from unit (previously +3)
• If there is an ally in an orthogonal direction from unit:
  • +4 to all stats in combat (new)

Refine effect is:

• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Guaranteed follow-up
  • 7 HP regeneration to unit and allies in orthogonal directions from unit

As a reminder, Peony's remix upgrades Gentle Dream to grant +4 to all stats instead of the original +3 and now also grants penalty nullification as a status effect. Her new skill is Cross Spur Res, replacing Fortify Res 4.

She only grants +4 to allies from her weapon instead of +5 like the regular skills of the Cross Spur series, which is a bit of a let-down. She also gains team HP regeneration as her only new support effect from her weapon, which is also a bit underwhelming.

In exchange, she gets +8 to all stats for herself and a guaranteed follow-up, which means she still dies to anything that can counterattack because she completely lacks any defensive effects and has garbage defensive stats. She's not unusable for combat, but she'll probably want to be running both Remote Sparrow and Guard 4 just to be worth doing so.

It's a bit disappointing that her team HP regeneration only activates on her engaging in combat. It would have been better to have it activate when an ally in the same range engages in combat instead or to have it activate on Dance.

Thrasir: Ifingr

Base effect is updated:

• Effective damage against dragons
• If there is an ally within 3 spaces:
  • +6 to all stats in combat (previously +4)
  • Null Follow-Up 3 (previously only the defensive half)
  • If unit attacked in combat:
    • Inflicts -4 to all stats as a Penalty to closest allies after combat

Refine effect is:

• Slaying effect
• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Nullifies opponent's positive bonuses to Spd/Res

As a reminder, Thrasir's remix upgrades Killing Intent to inflict Exposure at the start of the turn on the closest opponents within 5 spaces and all opponents within 2 spaces of them. Her new skill is Atk/Spd Ideal 4, replacing Flashing Blade 4.

Total +6 to all stats in addition to the original +4 to all stats, the full Null Follow-Up instead of just the defensive half, and also gets the Slaying effect and nullifies bonuses to Spd/Res.

The Slaying effect is obviously there because she got Atk/Spd Ideal 4 to replace Flashing Blade 4 in her A slot. This is overall amazing since she has little issue keeping both stacks of Ideal active if she has a source of Bonuses somewhere on her team since Killing Intent gives her the Desperation effect with an extremely easy condition, and the new Slaying effect ensures she can still activate a 2-cooldown Special on her follow-up attack as long as the opponent doesn't have Guard. Alternatively, she's now able to run Time's Pulse 3 to simply land a 2-cooldown Special on her first attack instead.

Not particularly flashy, but an overall solid refine and remix with very clear intent and direction. Slightly disappointed she didn't get Thjalfi's partial percentage damage reduction nullification.

New Year Lethe: Guardian Fang

Base effect is updated:

• Permanent +3 Spd
• If unit's Spd is higher than opponent's Spd:
  • Deals additional damage equal to 70% of the difference in Spd (maximum 7)
  • Dodge 3
• With Blow-or-Solo condition:
  • +5 Atk/Spd in combat (new)
• Standard beast transformation condition with standard beast cavalry transformation effect

Refine effect is:

• Phantom Spd 3
• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +5 Atk/Spd in combat
  • Null Follow-Up 3

Total +10 Atk/Spd in addition to the original weapon effect plus Null Follow-Up and Phantom Spd 3.

Unfortunately, the additional damage is not updated to the more modern effect of just a percentage of the unit's Spd, but the addition of Phantom Spd 3 makes it very unlikely to not be its maximum of 7 damage. Additionally, the weapon's total +13 Spd makes New Year Lethe the untied fastest beast cavalry in the game. For comparison, Selkie with the maximum +16 Spd with her Res comparison still falls short by 1 point when both units have a Spd Asset.

Null Follow-Up means she doesn't need to run a Flow skill or Beast Agility and can instead run something like a more typical S/D Near Trace or Lull Spd/Def that further boosts her offensive stats.

 

Overall thoughts

Thrasir and Lethe have simple refines that basically give them everything they need to function.

Catria doesn't quite get everything she wanted, but getting a comically high potential +36 effective Atk is more than enough to make up for it. It's kind of a pity she loses a good chunk of that in Rokkr Seiges since units don't tend to move very far there.

Sigrun and Dimitri are good, but aren't really anything too special due to being stuck in competitive classes.

Peony is underwhelming since she's supposed to be a support unit and doesn't get any usable support effects since the only one she gets is tied to her own combat. Could be made workable offensively with premium skills, but that's a lot of effort for not much gain.

Norne is probably workable with premium skills. She gets a lot of good skill effects on her weapon, but she doesn't quite have the stats to make it work without even more premium skill effects and still falls considerably short of the likes of Duo Askr and Gotoh even then. Ranged tanks have it extremely rough.

[GuiltyLove]

 

 

[Xenomata]

Teachers can be refined too. Unfortunately their personalities cannot.

• Creator Sword for the two Sword Infantry Byleth: Tested Professor and Byleth: Proven Professor (Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). During combat, neutralizes effects that guarantee foe's follow-up attacks, prevent unit's follow-up attacks, grant "Special cooldown charge +X" to foe, or inflict "Special cooldown charge -X" on unit.)
• Mercurius for Sword Infantry Astram: Midia's Hero (Grants Atk+3. At start of turn, if unit's HP ≥ 50%, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+4 to unit and sword, lance, axe, bow, dagger, or beast allies within 2 spaces for 1 turn. (Bonus granted to unit even if no allies are within 2 spaces.)  )
• Sol Lance for Lance Armor Forsyth: Loyal Lieutenant (Grants Res+3. When unit deals damage to foe during combat, restores 10 HP to unit. (Triggers even if 0 damage is dealt.))
• Saintly Seraphim alongside the remix for Green Tome Infantry Celica: Queen of Valentia (Grants Spd+3 If unit initiates combat, deals damage = 25% of foe's Res. (Ignores reductions to Res from Special skills.))
• Nurturing Breath along with the remix for Infantry C.Manakete Mila: Goddess of Love (Grants Def+3. If foe's Range = 2, calculates damage using the lower of foe's Def or Res. Grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+2 to allies within 7 rows and 7 columns centered on unit during combat.)
• New Foxkit Fang for Colorless Beast Cav. Selkie: New Year's Spirit (Accelerates Special trigger (cooldown count-1). If unit's Res > foe's Res, deals damage = 70% of difference between stats. (Maximum bonus of +7 damage.) If unit's Res > foe's Res, reduces damage from attacks during combat and from area-of-effect Specials (excluding Røkkr area-of-effect Specials) by percentage = difference between stats × 4 (max 40%).   At start of turn, if unit is adjacent to only beast or dragon allies or if unit is not adjacent to any ally, unit transforms (otherwise, unit reverts). If unit transforms, grants Atk+2, and if unit initiates combat, inflicts Atk/Def-4 on foe during combat and foe cannot make a follow-up attack.)

Celica I wonder if she's going to go down a similar route that Alm went down with his remix, since besides the flat Spd boost her only other effect currently is a partial Moonbow effect that Alm also had. Mila is likely to not improve her supportive game by much, if at all. Maybe make it a completely mapwide effect instead of in a giant box around her? +3 all stats instead of just +2?
Otherwise the only two I'm interested in are Forsyth and Selkie.

...not looking forward to next month's refines and the inevitability of Edelgard in all things... again.

Edited March 2, 2023 by Xenomata

[AimizuK]

Guys Sacred Stones is so close! Both New Heroes banner and refines for Ross, Ewan, Gerik and my boy Cormag! 2 updates until my boy get something (Conrad then Cormag). Everything he gets its good for him since mine is still using his default lance and I guess he will keep the -1 special acceleration.

[Ice Dragon]

No translation notes this month, so my usual analysis:

Male Byleth: Creator Sword
Female Byleth: Creator Sword

Current effect is:

• Slaying effect
• Null Follow-Up 3
• Tempo

Creator Sword is already a pretty solid weapon in terms of skill effects and really only needs a boost in stats. The Byleths already have pretty solid stats, so I'm expecting something like +8 to all stats.

If they want to steal a few effects from the other Byleths, they could give the weapon any of percentage damage reduction nullification, Dodge, Vantage, or Formation.

Astram: Mercurius

Current effect is:

• Permanent +3 Atk
• At start of turn, if HP is 50% or higher:
  • Grants +4 to all stats as a Bonus to self and physical units within 2 spaces

Astram's stats are good, but not great, sitting at 39/40 offenses with maximum Dragonflowers, putting him about 5-7 points behind the modern units in both. His only notable trait is the fact that he comes with Wrath by default.

Mercurius's stat boosts are almost all Bonuses, which can be supplied through other means and don't stack, so it's likely that he'll get somewhere around +10 to each stat in in-combat boosts to make up for the difference. There isn't much else to take inspiration from since its only notable effect in the source material is that it grants Paragon in Mystery, which is useless in Heroes.

Fast sword infantry is the most crowded class in Heroes, so I wouldn't be surprised if they go the same route as they did with fast lance fliers and give Mercurius a more novel effect.

Forsyth: Sol Lance

Current effect is:

• Permanent +3 Res
• Recovers 10 HP on each of unit's own attacks in combat

I expect more bulk. Slow lance armors are also a relatively crowded class, so there's room for novelty, like with what they did with Kjelle's weapon.

It's also pretty likely that he'll get Claude's partial nullification of Deep Wounds.

Legendary Celica: Saintly Seraphim

Current effect is:

• Permanent +3 Spd
• Deals additional damage equal to 25% of opponent's Res

For reference, Soul of Zofia II grants an additional +5 Spd, partial percentage damage reduction nullification, and improves its Desperation effect to have no HP condition. Celica's new skill is Atk/Spd Menace, replacing Atk/Spd Oath 3.

Also for reference, Saintly Seraphim is functionally identical to unrefined Luna Arc. Luna Arc's refine gave it +10 Atk/Spd, the offensive half of Tempo, and Windsweep 1 with no drawback. Lunar Flash II added full Deadeye-style damage reduction nullification.

The upgrades to Soul of Zofia essentially cover all of the effects added to the refined Luna Arc and remixed Lunar Flash other than the stat boost and Tempo. Since Soul of Zofia takes up the B slot, I'm expecting Saintly Seraphim's refine to include the offensive half of Tempo on it for parity. I can also see it receiving a damage boost based on Celica's Spd stat to make up for Celica not having access to Lunar Flash.

I doubt they'll focus on encouraging players to keep Miracle as her Special because it scores poorly in the Arena, so they might move it onto her weapon. If they do go the route of encouraging the use of an offensive Special, she'll want some kind of Special acceleration added to her weapon in order to actually land it since having Desperation active at full health without Time's Pulse or team support prevents her from activating a Special on her first round of combat.

Mila: Nurturing Breath

Current effect is:

• Permanent +3 Def
• Dragonstone common effect
• Grants +2 to all stats in combat to allies within a 7×7 square centered on unit

For reference, Mila's Turnwheel II also inflicts Guard at the same time as Isolation with the same range and condition and now grants Mila follow-up prevention. Mila's new skill is Dragon Wall, replacing Sabotage Atk.

It looks like they're already content with Mila's support capabilities, as Isolation is still quite strong, so I'm expecting them to focus more on combat for her refine, given that she's getting follow-up prevention and Dragon Wall. Dragon Wall leads me to believe that she'll either get a guaranteed follow-up or a first-attack damage boost similar to Dragon's Wrath or Fallen Rhea's weapon on her refine since she'll be unable to run Quick Riposte or Dragon's Ire in that slot.

I do expect the super-Drive effect to get a small boost, though. The range is already huge, so it would be better to just grant more stats and/or a skill effect.

Phantom Def would be appreciated since Dancer Eldigan notoriously can avoid being hit by Mila's Turnwheel.

New Year Selkie: New Foxkit Fang

Current effect is:

• Slaying effect
• If unit's Res is higher than opponent's Res
  • Deals additional damage equal to 70% of the difference (maximum 7)
  • Reduces damage taken by the difference × 4% (maximum 40%).
• Standard beast transformation condition with standard beast cavalry transformation effect

Selkie's New Year version is weird like her normal version and relies on Res comparisons despite it being really difficult to build for Atk, Spd, and Res all at the same time, and her Atk is too low to build for only Spd and Res, unlike Spring Maria.

Also, she's a dual-phase beast cavalry unit. Also, there are no Distant Counter variants that boost Spd/Res.

If they want to keep her role the same while actually making her viable, she needs to have Distant Counter (even if it has Distant Ward's condition) moved onto her weapon. Selkie absolutely cannot afford to pass up on a Spd/Res skill in her A slot, and Distant Ward isn't going to cut it.

Selkie's physical bulk is also horrendously awful (39/20 with maximum Dragonflowers), which makes it difficult for her to tank melee units even with her Res-based Dodge effect. If they don't mind novel effects, she should nullify effects that target the lower defensive stat and also force all opponents to target her Res instead of her Def.

This Selkie is a Special Hero, so there's at least some hope that they'll actually make her usable, but even then, I don't really trust them to actually give her everything she needs because she needs a lot.