General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Seafarer]

16 hours ago, Jotari said:

But newer dancers are going well above that base line. We don't get just "normal" dancers any more. It's Duo units with effects or legendary or fallen units. Course that's partially because they've (almost) exhausted the list of dancers in the series, the only ones left are Elffin (who should be good anyway when he comes because he's a plot important character), Laylea (who risks not getting in at all as she's a substitute) and any new dancer units they create like Seadall.

how could you forget Lara? 😢

[Othin]

10 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

Olivia has 33/38 offenses with maximum Dragonflowers. For a convenient comparison with a recent combat refine, that's actually identical to Panne's offenses. Panne's refined weapon grants +23/12/16/16, effective damage against cavalry, and a guaranteed follow-up to make up for her abysmally outdated stats.

I have a hard time believing they'd be willing to give anywhere near this much to a dancer in order to make them competent in combat when modern combat dancers still get only the bare minimum in combat effects. Spring Triandra gets +6/9/0/0 and no other combat effects. Winter Dorothea gets the exact same. Legendary Ninian, the best combat dancer in the game, gets +9/6/0/0 and Sweep.

While I don't have anything against giving a dancer something strong enough to make them viable for combat, I don't see the developers ever actually doing it in any case other than Phina. (It's worth noting that Phina has almost identical offensive stats as Young Marth, so she actually has the potential to be a good combat unit.)

Dancers don't need to have combat that competes with combat units, because they're dancers. All they'd need is to have combat uses that set them apart from otherwise-comparable dancers, so they can be useful in unusual but distinct combat situations.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, Seafarer said:

how could you forget Lara? 😢

Oh dang you're right. She's not in the game. My Thracia fan credentials will need to be revoked. I hope they do something interesting with her to reflect her veritable thief dancer status. I don't know what they could do unique given they've already thrown daggers on multiple dancers for want of actual weapons to give them. Maybe a Lethality build with the ability to charge her own special via dancing (though that leans a bit more on assassin than thief).

Edited July 5, 2023 by Jotari

[XRay]

I have used Olivia in Arena since near the beginning all the way until I quit. It would definitely be nice if she can get some fun stuff, but I do not think she needs it. I also used a lot of Dancers/Singers in Arena Assault, but even when I tried to collect every single one of them, it took a really long time for me to have enough for that mode due to how slowly the game releases them.

But yeah, I also think Dancers/Singers do not need Refines. Dance/Sing by itself is more than powerful enough as is. As far as premium Dancers/Singers go, the most important ones would be:
1. Dorothea: Twilit Harmony and Azura: Hatari Duet since they can Dance/Sing twice in one turn.
2. Ninian: Ice Dragon Oracle since she got Galeforce Dance.

If we want to be generous:
3. Peony, Plumeria, Mirabilis, Triandra, and Azura: Vallite Songstress for scoring. Any future Harmonized Dancers/Singers.
4. Pseudo Dancers/Singers (Lucina: Glorious Archer, Tiki: Harmonized Hope, Marianne: Serene Adherent, etc.) to get around Dance/Sing restrictions.

If a Dancer/Singer actually wants to be a cut above the rest mechanically, they need to provide more actions than a regular Dancer/Singer (ideally Dance/Sing a second time; Galeforce out of the way works too, just less ideal). Failing that, they need to be critical to a mode for one reason or another (usually via scoring purposes; alternatively, be bad enough at Dance/Sing because they are not actually Dancers/Singers, but can provide a similar function to get around restrictions).

[Othin]

6 hours ago, XRay said:

I have used Olivia in Arena since near the beginning all the way until I quit. It would definitely be nice if she can get some fun stuff, but I do not think she needs it. I also used a lot of Dancers/Singers in Arena Assault, but even when I tried to collect every single one of them, it took a really long time for me to have enough for that mode due to how slowly the game releases them.

But yeah, I also think Dancers/Singers do not need Refines. Dance/Sing by itself is more than powerful enough as is. As far as premium Dancers/Singers go, the most important ones would be:
1. Dorothea: Twilit Harmony and Azura: Hatari Duet since they can Dance/Sing twice in one turn.
2. Ninian: Ice Dragon Oracle since she got Galeforce Dance.

If we want to be generous:
3. Peony, Plumeria, Mirabilis, Triandra, and Azura: Vallite Songstress for scoring. Any future Harmonized Dancers/Singers.
4. Pseudo Dancers/Singers (Lucina: Glorious Archer, Tiki: Harmonized Hope, Marianne: Serene Adherent, etc.) to get around Dance/Sing restrictions.

If a Dancer/Singer actually wants to be a cut above the rest mechanically, they need to provide more actions than a regular Dancer/Singer (ideally Dance/Sing a second time; Galeforce out of the way works too, just less ideal). Failing that, they need to be critical to a mode for one reason or another (usually via scoring purposes; alternatively, be bad enough at Dance/Sing because they are not actually Dancers/Singers, but can provide a similar function to get around restrictions).

I'm not looking for units to be a cut above the rest. I'm looking for units who are mostly inferior to their counterparts to get something interesting they can do that the others can't, even if it's niche.

[XRay]

58 minutes ago, Othin said:

I'm not looking for units to be a cut above the rest. I'm looking for units who are mostly inferior to their counterparts to get something interesting they can do that the others can't, even if it's niche.

If Olivia ever gets an exclusive Weapon, I guess they can slap Hone Spd 4 on there and call it a day. If you upgrade her default Hone Atk 3 to 4, that is Atk/Spd+7, which is not bad, but not meta defining. I guess the Refine can be Sword Valor, so while it is useful, it does not really affect the competitive meta.

Hell, if Hone Spd 4 is too much, I guess there is always Sword Exp, although it is a real shitty effect.

[Othin]

2 hours ago, XRay said:

If Olivia ever gets an exclusive Weapon, I guess they can slap Hone Spd 4 on there and call it a day. If you upgrade her default Hone Atk 3 to 4, that is Atk/Spd+7, which is not bad, but not meta defining. I guess the Refine can be Sword Valor, so while it is useful, it does not really affect the competitive meta.

Hell, if Hone Spd 4 is too much, I guess there is always Sword Exp, although it is a real shitty effect.

Hone/Exp/Valor skills sound like a good approach to me, personally.

[GuiltyLove]

[Sunwoo]

Kempf is going to inflict us with a chat website?

These refines are good, I guess. I'm not gonna lie, my eyes are glossing over and my brain is going "oh look, numbers".

EDIT: Crap ... I can't find my Gerik. Did I fodder him off by mistake or lose him in one of my reserves? False alarm, I found him.

Edited July 6, 2023 by Sunwoo

[Xenomata]

Huh, they went the complete opposite direction with Gerik and gave him a mostly supportive Axe... that thing has built-in Infantry Pulse except for everyone, as well as bonuses for anyone with less HP than him with no positioning requirements mentioned.
Imagine him with a theoretical Infantry Pulse 3 Sacred Seal. Most units would be able to have a special like Ignis or Blazing Wind charged on Turn 1. That's very impressive, I can't lie.

One use of To Change Fate!+ gives Chrom one bonus and one penalty to work with by default, those being Bonus Doubler and Isolation. On the plus side the computer isn't always able to force him to use his assist all the time so facing him won't be much different ALL the time, but on the other it's easier for him to cripple Blue Armors.

The fact Brammimond is able to get a Pulse effect if the enemy has the Slaying effect... that's MOST of the cast, especially if they have an Arcane Weapon. He's also doubling down on the effects based on enemy stat calcs, so that's something.

So, that's what they gave Perceval... interesting. Wonder if they'll refer back to him when it's Mininerva's refine time...

Ross at +10 merge, neutral HP, and his refine sits at 54 HP. That's about 8 extra damage per attack. Shame he'd rather keep his HP up, so Vantage wouldn't be a good idea for him, but I think with some help from Bulwark and Mystic Boost he can make his HP recovery very high. Not that I'm that incentivized to actually use him even with this refine...

Kempf just proves to continue to be annoying.

And Idunn's refine is also good.

[GuiltyLove]

19 minutes ago, Xenomata said:

So, that's what they gave Perceval... interesting. Wonder if they'll refer back to him when it's Mininerva's refine time...

 

He just copied Sirius again!

[Humanoid]

Turns out my Gerry is +HP (and +1), so that works out nicely. In theory anyway, I'd still need to devise a team where he's the lynchpin for the dew expenditure to make sense.

I haven't used Kempf at all in his current form but he might be a fun novelty as a feather sink since I'm just hovering around 900k constantly these days.

 

(Incidentally it turns out I do have a Perceval, no memory whatsoever of getting him. Awful nature though so he stays in the reserves.)

[Ice Dragon]

Gerik: Desert-Tiger Axe

Base effect is:

• At start of first turn:
  • -1 Special cooldown to unit and allies with HP less than unit
• At start of turn:
  • +6 Atk/Spd, stat Penalty nullification, and Null Panic all as Bonuses to unit and allies with HP less than unit
• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat

Refine effect is:

• If unit is within 3 spaces of an ally:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Boost to each stat in combat equal to the highest stat Bonus on unit or ally within 3 spaces for that stat
  • 30% damage reduction on opponent's first attack
  • The offensive half of Tempo

They did end up giving up Gerik's Firesweep Axe in exchange for an amazing support weapon that still has solid combat performance.

The weapon effectively has Quickened Pulse and Infantry Pulse with no movement-type restriction, which is incredibly useful for non-infantry units that could really benefit from the Pulse effect and allows Gerik to grant 2 stacks of Infantry Pulse to infantry allies. He also grants +6 Atk/Spd, stat Penalty nullification, and Null Panic with global range to himself and all allies with less HP than him. The Penalty-related effects aren't quite as good a Legendary Robin's Grand Strategy, but the global range is amazing.

As far as combat effects, Gerik gets +8 to all stats, a version of Bonus Doubler that uses nearby allies' Bonuses if they're higher than his own, the offensive half of Tempo, and the obligatory 30% damage reduction on the opponent's first attack.

Gerik's HP is actually higher than most recently released armors, hitting 54 at +0 merges, maximum Dragonflowers, and no other HP investment other than the +3 HP from his weapon, so he doesn't actually need HP investment at all unless you're using some of the few units that actually have more HP than that.

If you do somehow have someone with more HP than him, we just got the release of tier-4 Boost skills, which grant the same +7 to 2 stats as other tier-4 A skills, but also grants +5 HP, though he'll probably want to wait for the release of Windfire Boost 3 to get the stats he wants. If you don't want to wait, he can still sacrifice some of his combat performance with G Duel Infantry or the new Squad Ace Sacred Seals to get more HP.

Ross: Father's-Son Axe

Base effect is:

• Meister effect
• Permanent -5 Spd

Refine effect is:

• If unit initiates combat or with a Unity condition:
  • -5 Atk/Def to opponent in combat
  • Additional damage equal to 15% of HP at start of combat (including AoE Specials)
  • 7 HP recovery after combat

It looks like Ross did actually end up going the Brave weapon route instead of Hatchet, with his weapon being a Meister weapon with no other effects in its base form. The refine grants him an effective +13 Atk (at max HP with +10 merges, maximum Dragonflowers, and no other HP investment) and +5 Def/Res, which is really good for a Meister weapon. For comparison, Legendary Leif gets about +11~12 Atk and +4 Def/Res and the offensive half of Tempo. The weapon also grants HP recovery after combat, which is nice for keeping his HP high for the additional damage.

Ross also wants a tier-4 Boost skill, though he's perfectly capable of running the existing Fireflood Boost 3 instead of waiting. Alternatively, he can run a Distant Counter skill. While the Push variants clash with his HP requirements, we have enough options for passive healing in other slots and team support that he can probably still get away with it.

That said, I think he might actually be best with a Finish skill if you don't need Distant Counter on him. An enemy-phase build like

Ross [+Atk]
Father's-Son Axe [unique]
[Assist]
Ruptured Sky
Atk/Def Finish 4
Quick Riposte 4
Time's Pulse 4
[any Sacred Seal that boosts Atk/Def] / Fierce Breath

would be able to activate Finish's +5 damage and 7 HP regeneration per attack immediately after the opponent's first attack, giving you the effect for every single one of Ross's counterattacks. For player phase, he could instead run Brash Assault 4 and activate Finish's additional effects starting from his second attack.

Kempf: Venin Edge

Base effect is updated:

• Permanent +3 Def
• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat (new)
• If unit attacked in combat:
  • Inflicts 10 damage on opponent and enemies within 2 spaces of opponent after combat
  • Inflicts Flash on opponent and enemies within 2 spaces of opponent after combat

Refine effect is:

• If there is at most 1 adjacent ally:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • 30% damage reduction on opponent's first attack
  • If unit attacked in combat:
    • Inflicts Discord on opponent and enemies within 2 spaces of opponent after combat

Kempf gets +8 to all stats, the obligatory 30% damage reduction from the opponent's first attack, and now inflicts Discord on top of his other after-combat effects. It's not quite Dazzling Staff, but it's still good.

The only downside is the fact that half of the stat boost and all of the new non-stat effects are locked behind him having at most 1 adjacent ally, which doesn't work for enemy phase in Pawns of Loki. This makes him more effective on the opponent's team than on your own since opposing units are typically higher leveled unless you get lucky and get a lot of level ups on him.

Duo Idunn: Zephyr Breath

Base effect is updated:

• Effective damage against armor
• Permanent +3 Res
• If unit has a stat Bonus or with a Unity condition:
  • Nullifies stat Penalties in combat
  • -6 Atk to opponent in combat
  • -4 Spd/Def/Res to opponent in combat (new)
  • Follow-up prevention
• Dragonstone common effect

Refine effect is:

• With a Stance condition or if opponent's HP is 75% or higher at start of combat:
  • -4 to all stats on opponent in combat
  • 5 flat damage reduction on opponent's non-follow-up attacks
  • Dragon Wall 3
  • 7 HP recovery after combat

For reference, her Duo Skill grants +6 Def/Res and nullification of effective damage against dragons and armor to herself and allies within a 5×5 square centered on her.

Exactly as predicted, Idunn gets damage reduction in the form of Anankos's new flat damage reduction from the opponent's non-follow-up attacks and combos that with Dragon Wall 3. Additionally, she gets an additional effective +8/8/4/4 on top of her existing effective +0/0/6/9 (including the permanent +3 Res) and heals 7 HP after combat.

And that's plenty good enough.

Percival: Prized Lance

Base effect is updated:

• Slaying effect
• With a Blow condition (new) or if opponent's HP is 75% or higher at start of combat (previously 100%):
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Guard effect

Refine effect is:

• If HP is 25% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Null Follow-Up
  • The offensive half of Tempo
  • Additional damage equal to 15% of Spd (excluding AoE Specials)

Percival gets the expected loosened condition on his base effect and gets about +15/4/4/4 on top of his existing +4 to all stats plus both Null Follow-Up and the offensive half of Tempo on top of his existing Guard.

The lack of the obligatory 30% damage reduction from the opponent's first attack is a bit surprising, as it means he has no real form of damage mitigation, though it probably shouldn't be that surprising given that all of his default passive skills boost his defenses. Having Null Follow-Up on his weapon means he can run Windsweep or Watersweep as a defensive effect, but that prevents him from running something better like Trace (though he does still get access to Alarm for Canto).

Legendary Chrom: Randgridr

Base effect is updated:

• Permanent +3 Atk
• Effective damage against armor
• Bow common effect
• If opponent's HP is 75% at start of combat (previously 100%):
  • Nullifies stat Penalties on unit in combat
  • -6 Atk/Def to opponent in combat

Refine effect is:

• With a Blow-or-Unity condition:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • +2 to all stats in combat for each non-stat Bonus and non-stat Penalty on unit
  • If unit has a Bonus:
    • Guaranteed follow-up
    • 30% damage reduction on opponent's first attack

For reference, the remix for To Change Fate! grants an additional Def Bonus and Bonus Doubler on use. Chrom's new skill is Blue Feud, replacing Rouse Def/Res.

I'm a bit surprised that Chrom doesn't get the Blow condition added to his base effect, though it's not like it matters that much when the goal is generally to kill opponents in one round of combat. Otherwise, the base effect is left unchanged.

The refine adds the much-needed guaranteed follow-up, +4 to all stats, and the obligatory 30% damage reduction from the opponent's first attack. It also grants an additional +2 to all stats for each non-stat Bonus and Penalty on Chrom, and the remixed To Change Fate! grants him 2 stacks of this effect immediately on use by granting him Bonus Doubler and inflicting Isolation on himself, bringing his total stat boost from all weapon effects (including the permanent +3 Atk) to a rather substantial +17/8/14/14.

He unfortunately still completely lacks any form of Special acceleration and doesn't have Tempo unless you give it to him as a passive skill, which means he's still stuck using 2-cooldown Specials and relying on the opponent to counterattack to charge it up. Time's Pulse can be used to run Deadeye, but he still needs the opponent to counterattack to have it charged up in time for his follow-up.

As expected, his new Blue Feud does absolutely nothing to help, and there are still no blue Grimas for him to use it against.

Bramimond: Void Tome

Base effect is unchanged:

• Permanent +3 Atk
• If opponent's Atk is 50 or higher at start of combat or if opponent has a Penalty:
  • +5 Atk/Def/Res in combat
• If opponent's Spd is 35 or higher at start of combat or if opponent has a Penalty:
  • Guaranteed follow-up

Refine effect is:

• If opponent's HP is 50% or higher at start of combat:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
• If opponent has a Special equipped and has the Slaying effect:
  • -1 Special cooldown before unit's first attack in combat
• If opponent's Atk is 50 or higher at start of combat:
  • Additional damage equal to 15% of opponent's Atk at start of combat (excluding AoE Specials)
• If opponent's Def or Res is 35 or higher at start of combat or if opponent has a Penalty:
  • Percentage damage reduction equal to the higher of opponent's Def or Res (maximum 50%) (excluding AoE Specials)

For reference, the remix to Impenetrable Dark inflicts -5 to all stats to the opponent in combat to bring it in line with other Feud skills and also nullifies half of the opponent's non-Special percentage damage reduction. Bramimond's new skill is Atk/Res Tempo, replacing Lull Atk/Res.

They actually just doubled down on how weird Bramimond's weapon is. And for the first time in a very long time, we have a weapon that has no changes to its base effect on refine.

The most notable addition is the Pulse effect before their first attack that activates against almost every relevant unit released in the past couple years because pretty much everything gets the Slaying effect. If effectively gives Bramimond the Slaying effect without actually giving them the Slaying effect, but also counters Scowl (assuming it activates simultaneously like most things do), which the Slaying effect doesn't do. They also get up to 50% damage reduction based on the opponent's higher defensive stat, which is interesting because it's less effective against glass cannons that dumped both defensive stats, but is very effective against bulky units and units with extremely lopsided defenses.

Almost everything worth using these days has at least 50 visible Atk, so they'll almost always activate the pseudo-Ruptured Sky effect, which deals about 7~12 damage depending on the opponent's visible Atk stat.

 

Overall thoughts

Gerik is amazing. He looks like he can absolutely function as a replacement for Legendary Robin in Aether Raids offense during seasons when Robin is not available. He's a top-tier support unit and doesn't even need to give up combat performance to do so.

Idunn looks to be a pretty solid choice for a Far Save tank, though she'd ideally want to swap out her base kit for Scowl and Crafty Fighter. Now if only my copy of her weren't stuck at +1 and if only the game would give me as many copies of Rearmed Grima as it does of Rearmed Ophelia.

Ross is pretty solid for a 4-star unit, especially if you're willing to give him a lot of premium fodder.

Kempf also looks good, though his inability to activate his new effects on enemy phase in Pawns of Loki is a bit of a bummer. Still good, though. Discord is fancy. I'll probably try to get Guard 4 on him for Pawns of Loki for better survivability, but that'll probably have to wait until we have a more accessible source of Guard 4 that I'm not in the middle of merging.

Percival is the least impressive unit of this group, and that's mostly because I have no idea how he's supposed to survive combat.

My only real complaint for Chrom is his lack of any Special acceleration, which pretty much forces you to run either Ruptured Sky or Time's Pulse to make him more workable. And also the fact that Blue Feud is still useless.

Bramimond is good. Will be a pain in the ass to deal with on Aether Raids defense, though.

[Diovani Bressan]

I can see Bramimond being a very effective WoM becon, since he can easily get 50% damage reduction from his tome... and that's on all attacks, and not only the first one. 

And yes... his refinement and Scowl nullify each other.

[Xenomata]

A good few Jugdralians in this batch of refines:

• Virtuous Tyrfing, as part of the Remix for Legendary Sword Cav Seliph: Scion of Light
• Mareeta's Sword, for Sword Infantry Mareeta: Sword of Stars
• Thracia Kinglance, a new weapon for Lance Flier Travant: King of Thracia
• Eagle's Egg, for Blue Tome Flier Est: Springtime Flier
• Western Axe, a new weapon for Axe Infantry Echidna: Unyielding Idealist
• Winds of Silesse, for Green Tome Infantry Ced: Hero on the Wind
• Nightmare Horn, as part of the Remix for Green Beast Cav Freya: Lady of Nightmares

...so even for his weapon refinery update, Travant still isn't allowed to use Gungnir...

[Ice Dragon]

Translation notes for the new weapons:

Thracia Kinglance is "トラキアの王槍" (torakia no ōsō), "Thracian King Lance". As in "king lance of Thracia" and not "lance of Thracia's king".

Western Axe is "西方の勇者の斧" (seihō no yūsha no ono), "Axe of the Hero of the West".

 

And the usual hopes and predictions:

Trabant: Thracia Kinglance

Currently has Silver Lance.

The rest of his base kit doesn't say much, being Ignis, Vantage, and Flier Guidance.

Trabant has the highest HP stat of all lance fliers at 50. He also ties with Melady for the second highest Def of all lance fliers at 44, beaten only by Spring Michalis's 48. Otherwise, his stat spread is just a pretty typical slow physical tank, and he wants the same skill effects as any other slow physical tank.

Echidna: Western Axe

Currently has Rearguard, which grants +7 Def with a Stance condition.

The rest of her base kit doesn't say much, either, being Sol, Brazen Spd/Res, and Drive Atk.

Echidna's base stats are rather workable, having 38/40 offenses with maximum Dragonflowers, and the obligatory stats on refined weapons should already be enough to make her at least viable. Her biggest issue, though, is the fact that Valentine Effie exists and has amazing stats. Echidna needs +9/4 offenses just to match Effie's base stats and an additional +5/8 on top to match Arcane Downfall, totaling +13/12. As large as those necessary boosts are, they aren't actually out of the ordinary for refines, so it's entirely possible.

Legendary Seliph: Virtuous Tyrfing

Current effect is:

• Permanent +3 Res
• If HP is 99% or lower at start of combat or with a Stance condition:
  • -6 Atk/Def to opponent in combat
  • 7 HP recovery per unit's attack in combat

For reference, the remix for Holy War's End grants a guaranteed follow-up and follow-up prevention on both phases, the Brave effect on enemy phase, and an obligatory -5 Atk/Def to the opponent. His new skill is Distant Ferocity (Distant Counter + Fierce Stance), an upgrade to his existing Distant Counter.

Seliph is still geared towards enemy phase, as the Brave effect from his exclusive B skill only activates on enemy phase, but he is no longer dead weight on player phase now that he has a guaranteed follow-up on player phase.

His base weapon has an obvious issue where he has HP recovery, but needs to have at least 1 damage in order for his weapon to actually function on player phase. I can see the refine either changing the condition to something more reliable or adding a Push effect or start-of-turn self-damage effect to make the condition easier to activate on player phase.

It's extremely likely that he'll get the Miracle effect since all 3 other versions of him (including Harmonized Leaf) have the effect. Canto would be useful for player phase, and Vantage would be useful for enemy phase, especially since he can't run either of them normally without removing his exclusive skill. I can also see him getting additional damage and/or damage reduction (flat or percentage or both) based on his Def or a Def comparison. Ideally, he should be able to compete with Brave Dimitri in tanking ability.

Mareeta: Mareeta's Sword

Current effect is:

• Slaying effect
• With a Solo condition:
  • +4 to all stats in combat
  • Null Follow-Up

Mareeta is your typical fast sword infantry. Her refine will probably give her typical fast sword infantry effects. Maybe it'll have something more novel like what Fallen Mareeta got, but it'll be in service to the same role as a typical fast sword infantry.

Spring Est: Eagle's Egg

Current effect is:

• Permanent +3 Atk
• With a Unity condition:
  • +5 to all stats in combat
  • Nullifies stat penalties to all stats

Est's Spd stat is pretty decent at 39 with maximum Dragonflowers, but she's obviously more focused on her Atk stat instead, having the second highest base Atk among blue tome fliers at 42. I wouldn't be surprised if she gets both an additional +4~5 to all stats and a guaranteed follow-up just to make sure.

Otherwise, Est doesn't really have much that really stands out for her. There's a possibility that the condition on the weapon's base effect will be upgraded to Blow-or-Unity, but it's also possible that it gets a teleportation effect that makes it easy to always initiate combat with the Unity condition fulfilled. It would also make sense to add a teleportation effect since Spring Veronica's Vedrfolnir's Egg gained the effect with its refine, and this weapon was intended to be related to it. (In Japanese, Vedrfolnir's Egg is "Folnir's Egg", whereas Eagle's Egg is "Vedr's Egg" due to "Vedrfolnir" being too long in Japanese to fit into a single skill name.) Additionally with Vedrfolnir's Egg granting stat bonuses and then using them like Ashera's Order's Sentence, I would not be surprised if this weapon's refine gains a Dominance-like effect due to Est having Chill Atk/Res as her default B skill.

Sety: Winds of Silesse

Current effect is:

• Permanent +3 Spd
• With a Solo condition:
  • +6 Atk/Spd in combat

The condition on his weapon will likely be upgraded to Blow-or-Solo.

I'm expecting Sety to function like a modernized version of Levn; i.e. Levn, but with a longer skill description.

His default Special is Luna, and I wouldn't be surprised if they gave him some skill effects to reliably activate it, like the Slaying effect, Null Follow-Up, and Tempo and either the Desperation effect (with +1 Special charge rate) or percentage damage reduction on the opponent's first attack to keep him alive until his follow-up.

Freyja: Nightmare Horn

Current effect is:

• Permanent +3 Spd
• Distant Counter
• Dodge 3
• Standard transform condition with old cavalry transform effect

For reference, the remix for Binding Necklace grants unconditional transformation, +7 Phantom Spd, the offensive half of Tempo, and an effective +2 to all stats on top of its original effect. The activation condition for all effects other than the unconditional transformation and Phantom Spd effect has been changed from Solo to Stance or at most 1 adjacent ally. Her new skill is Spd Smoke 4, replacing Pulse Smoke.

The additional effects on Binding Necklace are obviously there to match the effects from Eitr's default Arcane Nihility and Beast Perception 4, and because those effects are there, I expect her refine to cover for the missing Null Follow-Up. Null Follow-Up already makes sense to have since Summer Freyja has the offensive half of it on her weapon, and Freyja being now set up to be a dual-phase unit will probably want the full skill and will likely get it. Additionally, because she isn't getting an Alarm skill as her new skill, it's likely they'll give her some form of Canto so that she'll be more useful on player phase.

The only remaining effect on Arcane Nihility is additional damage based on Spd, which I don't expect Nightmare Horn to get. Instead, I think it's more likely to get flat damage reduction based on Spd, which helps Freyja more with her primary role of being a fast tank and has good synergy with piles of percentage damage reduction she's getting from her default skills.

Personally, I'd also like to see her get her weapon's base Dodge effect upgraded to Dodge 4, mostly to keep her a step above Beast Perception 4, which only has Dodge 3 instead of Dodge 4.

Gaining the Tempo effect on Binding Necklace also appears hint that Nightmare Horn will get an effect top help activate a Special. Freyja's default Special is Luna, and there's currently no way for her to reliably activate it in every round of combat due to having no sources of Special acceleration. She would need at minimum the Slaying effect and either +1 Special charge rate or Time's Pulse 4.

[Xenomata]

2 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

The condition on his weapon will likely be upgraded to Blow-or-Solo.

I could see them maybe upgrading the Solo effect to the variant that's been given to recent skills, see Alarm skills, Freya's Binding Necklace II, and Eitr's Power of Nihility, and then maybe doubling down on giving him similar pseudo-Solo triggers.

Heck, they could just outright give him Alarm Atk/Spd built into his weapon.

[Jotari]

Travant getting a refine huh? And they're not giving him Gungnir? That's....as strange as his initial appearance. Well we are almost certainly getting a Jugdral banner this month so we might see Arione pop up with Gungnir.

[Othin]

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

Travant getting a refine huh? And they're not giving him Gungnir? That's....as strange as his initial appearance. Well we are almost certainly getting a Jugdral banner this month so we might see Arione pop up with Gungnir.

Thing is, they've been tending to alternate the generations, and last year was Gen 2. Of course, that's no guarantee.

Also, this month's New Heroes banner will be CYL. I'd bet on Thracia in September and Genealogy in October, based on the sequence they've been doing.

[Ice Dragon]

6 hours ago, Xenomata said:

I could see them maybe upgrading the Solo effect to the variant that's been given to recent skills, see Alarm skills, Freya's Binding Necklace II, and Eitr's Power of Nihility, and then maybe doubling down on giving him similar pseudo-Solo triggers.

Heck, they could just outright give him Alarm Atk/Spd built into his weapon.

They definitely could, and it's certainly a likely possibility since they do like to excessively hand out their newfangled toys like that, but he would ideally still get the older Blow-or-Solo condition. The not-quite-Solo condition is better suited for dual-phase units, and he'd much prefer to just have the effect always active on player phase.

It would honestly be a bit disappointing if he doesn't at least get the Blow condition as an alternate activation condition when so many other units have gotten it. What they do with the Solo side if they upgrade it to not-quite-Solo or leave it as is really doesn't matter since he isn't really meant to be used on enemy phase. His weapon and default Spd/Res Solo are more to fill out the Solo skill series than an invitation to use him on enemy phase, as he was the first unit released with Spd/Res Solo.

 

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

Travant getting a refine huh? And they're not giving him Gungnir? That's....as strange as his initial appearance. Well we are almost certainly getting a Jugdral banner this month so we might see Arione pop up with Gungnir.

Trabant never really had a shot at getting Gungnir since this version is him during the second generation where he doesn't have Gungnir anymore. Gungnir would have to come on either a first-generation version of him or on Arione.

[Tybrosion]

Because someone has to say it, Thracia Kinglance better have "effective against cavalry" and/or some effect (which doesn't involve effective damage) that gives Travant an advantage against cavalry foes.

Surely IS can at least give Travant memes in place of Gungnir, right?

[Jotari]

5 hours ago, Othin said:

Thing is, they've been tending to alternate the generations, and last year was Gen 2. Of course, that's no guarantee.

Also, this month's New Heroes banner will be CYL. I'd bet on Thracia in September and Genealogy in October, based on the sequence they've been doing.

Ah yes, forgot about CYL.

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

Trabant never really had a shot at getting Gungnir since this version is him during the second generation where he doesn't have Gungnir anymore. Gungnir would have to come on either a first-generation version of him or on Arione.

I know why, but it's an odd bit of adherence to authenticity. Like, he does have it in the story right up until you fight him. In the face of Michalis having Hautclere despite never touching it, I don't think anyone would balk at him having Gungnir. That is to say, even though he does use a silver lance when you fight him in Genealogy, people would find it less weird if he had Gungnir than him not having it.

[Xenomata]

4 hours ago, Ice Dragon said:

They definitely could, and it's certainly a likely possibility since they do like to excessively hand out their newfangled toys like that, but he would ideally still get the older Blow-or-Solo condition. The not-quite-Solo condition is better suited for dual-phase units, and he'd much prefer to just have the effect always active on player phase.

It would honestly be a bit disappointing if he doesn't at least get the Blow condition as an alternate activation condition when so many other units have gotten it. What they do with the Solo side if they upgrade it to not-quite-Solo or leave it as is really doesn't matter since he isn't really meant to be used on enemy phase. His weapon and default Spd/Res Solo are more to fill out the Solo skill series than an invitation to use him on enemy phase, as he was the first unit released with Spd/Res Solo.

If they wanted to do something marginally interesting with Ced, he could be a unit who stacks on effects dependent on the number of adjacent allies when he enters combat, getting more the fewer allies are nearby, in exchange for being a unit purely dependent on being isolated. Maybe like damage reduction for no allies, ignore enemy DR with one ally, additional damage with two or fewer, and so on.

Because honestly if they just go with giving him the Blow and Hp above 25% conditions like they usually do, I can't see him getting any interesting effects otherwise...

[GuiltyLove]

 

Spring Est has a good refine!

[Diovani Bressan]

I am VERY impressed by Seliph's Refinement.

He was one of the worst Legendary Heroes, and now she is an amazing one.the fact that he has so much damage reduction against mages and staves that is for all attacks and not only the first one, brave effect on enemy phase, a total of Atk/Def-16 debuff on foe, Miracle effect and Null-C Disrupt as well? Geez! He went from Zero to above Hero!