General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Perhaps more importantly, Florina’s speed hinders her greatly because she’ll be facing sword units who can dispatch her with a special (quite possibly boosted by Wrath), so the extra cooldown is meaningless if she gets 2HKO’d. She’s bulky, but not on the physical side. All she can do reliably is take on the Tikis and to a lesser degree Nowi and Corrin but... like, Falchions and better tanks exist. That’s why preventing follow-ups is so beneficial to her combined with the effective damage. She’ll have more options than just picking on dragons. Of course there’s no use to trying to improve that speed as it’s pretty much a lost cause, but we can’t act like it’s not a serious problem for her. Fliers in general (barring some exceptions) usually make for poor tanks, and the girl can’t even use a breath.

I was actually thinking about Atk/Def Bond would be quite useful on the A slot with my Florina refine. However, as a refine itself it’d be pretty underwhelming for the reasons I stated in my previous paragraph. Plus what’s she going to run in her A slot? Distant Counter? With my weapon I guess it would be a solid option as she could tank mages and guarantee to kill them. With yours though it wouldn’t work. Mages can usually scrape by Florina by doubling her and procing a special unless they’re red, which are the least common among mages. With Colorless it’s even worse as 2/3rds of the group can easily get around her, and daggers can still possibly KO Florina if they have a Barb Shuriken. I’m honestly just kind of confused because you talk as if my idea is bad yet you point out the effective damages in a way that sounds like that’s what sells the weapon. In other words I’m not sure where you’re getting at with your critique of sorts.

Getting hit by specials is not a problem, and you seem to be severely underestimating Florina's physical bulk. Florina's current optimal build is a standard non-armor mixed tanking build (same build as Jagen):

Florina [+Def/Atk, -Spd] (Slaying Lance [Def], Glacies, Distant Counter / Close Def 3, Guard 3, Atk Ploy 3, Quick Riposte 3).

This build gives her a stat spread of 42/43/24/33/34 with +Def and 42/46/24/29/34 with +Atk when using Distant Counter. This gives her a stat spread very similar to a pre-Slaying Sheena (45/44/22/36/33) that doesn't have vulnerability to enemy Special skills.

With my suggested weapon and only Fortify Fliers (or Def Tactic + Res Tactic on a mixed team) as support, she has zero losses against reds and only fails to kill Firesweep/Windsweep users and bulky units that can't double her (Tiki, Zephiel). Against blue, she has no losses except against Bold Fighter Brave Lance Effie and Bold Fighter Blarblade Lyn.

 

2 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:

because you talk as if my idea is bad yet you point out the effective damages in a way that sounds like that’s what sells the weapon.

Because it is the only thing that's selling that weapon. Florina wants either effective damage or Special acceleration in order to deal enough damage to pull off kills on the counterattack. Your weapon is relying on only effective damage, and therefore, that's what selling the weapon. Being able to negate the opponent's follow-up is actually hurting her already weak damage output by further denying her a powerful Special (your weapon forces her to use Moonbow for a single-round activation).

 

2 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Plus, assuming we’re going off of Rex Hasta and not a personal weapon in general, a -1 cooldown wouldn’t have made much sense as it never had a higher critical chance. Granted, Basilikos didn’t have one either, but I think that’s just because IS couldn’t think of a smooth transition from Raven’s former signature weapon ie. the Brave Axe.

If she could have anything she wanted within reason, Florina would really just want Dauntless Lance with a different refine. Special acceleration (-1 cooldown), armor effectiveness, and Atk/Def Bond as the refine.

[ILikeKirbys]

11 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:

Thanks! Honestly Mist is pretty subpar, even for a healer, but I feel the least that can be done is give her something of her own to make her “worthwhile”. The effect is actually something that I could see on a regular staff in the future and made think if I made Mist underpowered, but who knows.I kinda have a soft spot for her as well. I plan to do Marisa, Joshua, Azura, F!Corrin, and both Robins in the future.

Yeah, Mist is pretty much always gonna suck unless she gets, I dunno, an Owl-staff or something (and even then she probably would just be alright).
I don't think they'd go for Elena's Staff as a regular thing though. Maybe put a Guard-type Special Charge -1 during combat kind of debuff on people (in fact I'd quite like that), but not outright preventing Special charging altogether (at least that's how I read the effect, could be wrong on this). You're in the clear on making a not-underpowered weapon there.

11 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:

I plan to do Marisa, Joshua, Azura, F!Corrin, and both Robins in the future.

And I look forward to seeing those! And seeing where you take Azura and the Robins in particular, since I'd like to compare them to what I did with those three.

11 hours ago, SilvertheShadow said:

However, I think you misunderstood what I said concerning refinements for healers. It’s not that I don’t think they should have them, which I actually do. The problem is that healers can only get wrathful/dazzling refines for staffs. It’s like how the stat refines for ranged units are lower than those of the melee ones. While it’s disappointing to a degree, it’s not like we can complain about having easy access to wrathful/dazzling staff. Maybe something might be changed in the changed in the future, but I wouldn’t hold my breath.

I think I understand you, but IMO, staves so far have only gotten Wrathful Staff 3 or Dazzling Staff 3 for refinements because we don't have personal staff weapons that can be refined at the moment, so in the event that we do get personal staves that can be refined, I think they'd get a third option beyond Wrathful/Dazzling (making that third refinement something that would be better than having Wrathful and/or Dazzling on the weapon is a problem I have trouble with, though).

Also, since CYL2 is coming, and with it a new Armads (probably), here's a possible refinement for the only Armads without a prefix, as well as something for Eliwood because he's gonna feel left out if Lyn and Hector get refinements and he doesn't:

Hector - General of Ostia

Armads [Refine] | MT 16 | This unit performs a follow-up attack when attacked with HP > 70%.
Skill-Refinement: Grants Special Charge +1 during combat initiated by foe.

Hector's original Armads gets a refinement to compete with the other versions of Armads, and it's coming prepared with Quick Riposte 3 by default and the ability to be refined to have Empty Breath on it, strengthening the Omnibreaker build while also letting Hector run Distant Counter/Bold Fighter/Special-Charge-+1-When-Attacked/Quick Riposte fairly well since he'll have the latter two skills on his weapon. Nothing overly flashy, but it's a definite upgrade over normal Armads, and might maybe be worth using over Berserk and Thunder Armads.

Eliwood - Knight of Lycia

Durandal [Refine] | MT 16 | Effective vs. Dragonstones. Grants ATK +6 when this unit initiates combat.
Skill-Refine: Grants SPD/RES +4 when this unit initiates combat.

Eliwood gets quite the upgrade for Durandal, starting with Dragon-effectiveness because Durandal had that in FE6/7 and upgrading to Death Blow 3, giving him a bit more power than he had before. The skill-refinement gives Eliwood additional stats when he initiates combat by tossing Swift Strike 2 onto his weapon as well, putting him at a minimum of +6 ATK/+4 SPD/+0 DEF/+4 RES when he initiates combat, making him pretty decent for killing Dragons if nothing else. He would still require a decent amount of investment to make him great (I would recommend Iceberg/Glacies, Swift Sparrow 2, Desperation, SPD Ploy, and either the DEF Ploy or Heavy Blade Sacred Seal to maximize Eliwood's damage while taking advantage of his good RES), and maybe it isn't better than Blazing Durandal, but it's certainly an upgrade over the regular version.

[bottlegnomes]

@ILikeKirbys True on Effie. I guess my concern was that people would still opt for other sets, though she wouldn't be the only unit whose refine still doesn't really outweigh generic weapons.

As for your other two, I'm a fan of Eliwood's. Makes him a offensive powerhouse and an even better dragon killer. Maybe drop the dragon effectiveness though. His res will let him handle them well enough, and with SS, he can hit 39/57/41/20/37 before buffs if he goes spd boon def bane, which is already very solid.

Hector, I say give him a killer effect too. Lets him run 1-round aether, double bonfire if he gets doubled, or proc bonfire and still setup a bonfire vantage combo for next round. Even then, I'm still not sure it's better than Berserk Armads. That thing is gross.

Edited August 20, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[Mercakete]

I know that Soren already got a special weapon from refine, but I keep wondering why he's never gotten anything like his native Adept skill, especially when you could just make a custom brave tome or something for him. He's got good speed, but that's not quite the same. Anyone else ever think about this?

[ILikeKirbys]

@bottlegnomes Durandal getting Dragon-effectiveness is mostly there because I couldn't come up with a better base effect for it than Death Blow 3, so I figured it would need something extra, and also because Eliwood's RES could make him a good choice for Dragon combat so why not give him that extra edge against them? Glad you like it outside of that though, I was worried about it not being good enough compared to Blazing Durandal.

And yeah, Berserk Armads is crazy. It's why the only Hector I haven't used for Distant Counter is my Love Abounds Hector (that and he's +ATK/-SPD).

I like the idea of Special Cooldown -1 on that Armads refinement... But I feel like it could be a bit too good when combined with QR3 and the Breath effect, and I'd like to avoid that sort of thing if I can (not that Hector is a stranger to having weapons with great effects, but still).

On 8/20/2018 at 10:46 AM, Mercakete said:

I know that Soren already got a special weapon from refine, but I keep wondering why he's never gotten anything like his native Adept skill, especially when you could just make a custom brave tome or something for him. He's got good speed, but that's not quite the same. Anyone else ever think about this?

I would guess that they're afraid of giving out brave tomes ever since Reinhardt.

Also, just realized that I never did a Seliph refinement, even though I did his sister:

Seliph - Scion of Light

Tyrfing [Refine] | MT 16 | When HP < 80% at start of combat, grants DEF/RES +7 during combat.
Skill-Refinement: If unit's DEF > foe's DEF+1, foe cannot perform a follow-up attack.

Seliph's Tyrfing makes him a bit sturdier once his HP dips by giving him Brazen DEF/RES 3 on his weapon (which, much like Alfonse's new Folkvangr, can be combined with Brazens in the A Slot), and gives him optional DEF-based follow-up denial similar to Brynhildr's skill-refinement, allowing him to more safely battle low-DEF foes who would otherwise double and murder him (though if they carry Swordbreaker or Bold Fighter, Seliph can still get wrecked since his SPD sucks), an effect that starts off pretty alright since Seliph has decent DEF, but can make Seliph very difficult to double once he enters Brazen range thanks to Brazen DEF/RES 3 on his weapon boosting him up to 33/37/40 (and if you add in Brazen ATK/DEF 3, Seliph can hit 40/44/47 DEF).
If nothing else, Seliph's Tyrfing should make him a decent mixed tank that gets sturdier once his HP takes a hit (and thanks to Seliph's naturally high HP, he'll still have plenty to work with once he hits Brazen range).

Edited August 31, 2018 by ILikeKirbys

[bottlegnomes]

@ILikeKirbys I was going to say I thought it made Eli a little too good versus his competition in that case, Siegbert and Brave Roy, since it gave him similar offense, but dragon effectiveness, but upon looking at stats again, he still lags a little behind depending on setup.

Siegbert +spd/-res, SS, Desp, HB seal:

41/58/46/31/12 +special cool down

Roy +spd/-res, SS, Desp, +spd seal:

38/55/44/26/21 +special cool down

Eli (same setup as Siegbert):

39/57/41/23/33 +special cool down (or 44 spd with no cooldown bonus)

They're all comparable, but I'd Say Eli is definitely the worst due to the lower speed. As for not being better than Blazing Durandal, I don't think you need to worry. The only advantage BD has is built-in HB, which is kind of moot anymore due to the seal. In exchange, this has +3 attack and +1 effective speed since BD lets you run the speed seal in place of HB if you so desire.

As for Armads, I agree that it's very good as is. Were it someone besides Hector, it'd probably be fine, but it has to compete with BA. For a point of comparison, neutral Hector deals 18 damage with Bonfire, meaning if he doubles and runs vantage, he can setup a vantage bonfire once for 70 damage. For BA to match that 18 damage boost with moonbow, the enemy needs 27+def, which isn't exactly a lot: Difference is that BA has continued sustain since at the start of every turn, Hector reactivated moonbow/glimmer without being in any danger.

Edited August 20, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[ILikeKirbys]

@bottlegnomes Nice analysis. Couple things though: One, I feel like Eliwood would run -DEF over -RES, and with that he could probably run SPD Ploy to somewhat compensate for his lower SPD, which is something that neither Seigbert nor Brave Roy can really do (maybe Roy could, but Seigbert peaks at 19 RES so he definitely can't unless he's up against a team of Dancing Xanders or Virions or Ardens or something). Two, if Eliwood is running the skill-refinement (I assume he is in your calculations), he would have 42 HP rather than 39, and 36 RES instead of 33. 

Still, you've convinced me that Eliwood didn't really need dragon-effectiveness with this Durandal. The other effects are enough to make him a solid swordcav in his own right, especially since he's a lot more readily available than Seigbert or Brave Roy.

Edited August 20, 2018 by ILikeKirbys

[bottlegnomes]

@ILikeKirbys Honestly, the reason I said same as Siegbert is that it seemed like less typing and I was feeling lazy. I'm not proud, but that's why <_<

I do agree he might prefer -def since either way he's squishy enough that he'll usually get 2HKOed but shouldn't be in danger of OHKOs. Completely forgot about the +HP of refines.

I will say regarding spd ploy, he either has to give up his C slot or drops to 38 speed w/o the ploy active. I don't think either of those are terrible enough to necessitate dragon effectiveness, especially since none of the other Elibe weapons have it, save BB, and dragons are such a threat thy dragon effective units automatically have a niche.

In short, I'd honestly be fine with either way. I can see a case for both sides, but the import thing is that it improves Eliwood and strengthens his niche of killing dragons/CC mages/general magic tanking thanks to his solid res.

Edited August 20, 2018 by bottlegnomes

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

So an idea i always had for Eliwood R weapon is

 

Durandal R base - Deathblow 3

Durandal Refine option - Eliwood can't make follow up attack, increase ATK by 50% of ATK

 

So like lets say Eliwood have 34 ATK, Durandal for 50, and Durandal R! for 56, Deathblow for 62

hes going to hit as if he have 93 Attack - followed by weapon triangle but only once because you totally need a second hit obviously

The idea comes from the quirks of Durandal's image being a sort of heavy blade that does 1 decisive blow

Edited August 21, 2018 by JSND Alter Dragon Boner

[Silverly]

I was bored so I made some more refines.

Robin (both)

Grandmaster’s Tome| 14 Mt| Effective against armored, flying, and calvary foes. Attack Tactics (male)/Speed Tactics (female)

Reasoning: The main thing about Robin is that they’re a jack of all trades. So I thought that could extend to the weapon. As Robin doesn’t have overbearing stats, I feel this would be a great fit for them. Now I went back and forth on whether or not Robin should have a bond refinement (likely something along the lines of Lucina/Chrom’s) or something supportive. While both make sense from a character perspective, I felt people would cry foul if I gave combative boosts to an already powerful weapon, so I went with the latter. Plus, since the tomes will have to be different colors despite sharing the same name, I decided to give them unique refinements.

 

Marisa

Shamshir|16 Mt| Grants +3 Def. Adds +10 damage to specials. Brazen Atk/Spd.

Reasoning: I’m aware that the Shamshir is just a renamed Wo Dao in Sacred Stones, but the name itself is so unique to the game and to Marisa specifically that I think it can get a pass as a personal weapon. Basically the same as before, except Marisa now gets a handy 3 defense to her already solid bulk. I think Brazen Atk/Speed should help her a lot. It bolsters her somewhat middling attack while bringing her speed to very high levels. Plus this can be stacked with other skills, so this should help her combat performance a lot. Not a lot to say here. Imo Marisa got robbed by being a TT unit.

 

Joshua

Auhdulma|16 Mt| -1 cooldown. Grants +5 Resistance. Odd Attack Wave.

Reasoning: I think the weapon itself is a good start (cooldown reductions are no joke), so I didn’t mess with it. I do feel a refine is in order though, and I decided to give Odd Attack Wave to help him with his offense. It also fits Joshua with how he tends to rely on luck (or in this case timing). Another short one.

 

F!Corrin

Raging/Torrential Breath|16 Mt| After combat, inflicts Atk/Spd -7 on target and foes within 2 spaces of target through their next actions. If foe's Range = 2, damage calculated using the lower of foe's Def or Res. Owltome effect.

Reasoning: The weapon itself is loosely based on what Corrin (and to a lesser extent Kana) could do when going berserk in their dragon forms. I had to look up the name for the actual attack and it’s called Draconic Rage, though in Japan it’s simply called Water Droplets so it looks like the localization took some creative liberties lol. Thus I gave it two potential names. I decided to keep the Dark Breath effect because it’s unique to Corrin at the moment. The only difference is that the effect is triggered after any attack, rather than requiring initiation. I considered including Def and Res in the debuffs but I thought it was too overpowered to have -7 to all stats as the highest we currently have is 4. Deciding on a specific refinement was especially tricky. I didn’t want to give that lame skill that her male counterpart has, but after extensive research on the skills Corrin could have as a Noble in Fates, none of them really seemed feasible. In fact, I’m pretty sure Dark Breath was inspired by Draconic Hex. In the end, I went with a boring owltome effect which honestly should help Corrin offensively and defensively as well as play into her character of being supported by her allies.

I was planning on doing Azura but I just couldn’t figure out a refinement for her. As always I’m interested in responses. ^_^

[ILikeKirbys]

@SilvertheShadow Thoughts on those refinements:

Robins: I feel like triple-effectiveness is one effectiveness too many. Maybe dump the Flying effectiveness, or Cavalry (keep Armored though, anti-Armor will be super useful with CYL2 Hector and Ephraim around). Tactic skills for the skill-refinement makes sense since Robin is supposed to be a tactician (tome name aside), and I'd probably go for F!Robin's skill-refine simply because it's SPD Tactic and I want more of that (M!Robin would probably get a DEF-Refine since I have a +DEF one and being able to tank physical better seems like a good thing, but ATK Tactic is a worthwhile skill-refinement as well, I'd just be more interested in running what I always run but with effective damages).

Marisa: Two things:
1) By default, it's a Nameless Blade with that weapon's refinement already attached. Pretty sure you need to pick either the Cooldown -1 or the Wo Dao effect for the base weapon, since I doubt they'd powercreep the Nameless Blade so directly like that.
2) DEF +3 probably shouldn't be there, as this is a weapon that can be refined. The stat boosts are generally given to weapons that aren't refineable.
Outside of that, I like the Shamshir. It'd justify my hesitation to burn my Marisas (outside of not having anyone who really wants Infantry Pulse and having Athenas to fodder for Wo Dao+), and it looks good!

Joshua: Can't have a problem with the RES +5 here since it was already a part of the weapon. I was underwhelmed by giving it Odd ATK Wave at first, but then I remembered that Even ATK Wave is gonna be a thing sooner or later so Joshua can equip that and always have ATK +6 (and give it to his allies) with this refinement. I like it, more than I thought I would have at first (though the ability to have HP +5 and RES +9 would also be tempting... I'm really not sure what I'd do if Audhulma became refineable, to be honest).

Corrin: The base effect is just refined Dark Breath with 16 MT, but I kinda like Seal ATK/SPD Smoke 3 so I like the base weapon, and the Owltome effect could be a good effect as well (don't think we've seen that on a melee unit yet, have we?), as it boosts up Corrin's kinda-meh 40/43/47 ATK (also, until writing this, I didn't know Corrin had a superboon in ATK) into a pretty-alright 46/49/53 while also boosting her up to 37/40/43 SPD and DEF, which are both nice to have (24/27/30 RES is less good, but it's probably good enough to let her tank a hit from a magical foe, though I can't see why Corrin would need to tank magic in the first place). I quite like this refinement as well.

So, here are a few more of my own personal weapons and refinements:

Hinata: Wild Samurai - Hinata's Katana
MT 16 | Grants ATK +6 when foe initiates combat.
Skill-Refine: When foe initiates combat and uses Sword, Lance, Axe or Dragonstone, damage from first attack is reduced by 30%. Damage reduced (from any source, including other skills) is added to next attack. Resets at end of combat.

Explanations: The base effect is actually from Hana's Katana in Fates (where the weapon's MT doubled when the unit was attacked), but I felt it was better suited to Hinata in Heroes (where it becomes just Fierce Stance 3).
The skill-refine references Hinata's Triple Threat skill from Fates, which reflected half of the damage Hinata took from Swords, Lances and Axes while at or below half health back onto his foe. Here in Heroes, it's been upgraded to a first-strike Deflect Melee 1 mixed with Ice Mirror's damage-reduced-is-added-to-damage-dealt effect, giving Hinata a little more power against melee foes in addition to increasing his durability against melee enemies (for best results, run with Pavise, Shield Pulse and at least one ally with higher HP and Infantry Pulse, so Hinata reduces that first strike by 80% and 5, and gets to add that damage he didn't take to his counterattack, dealing potentially-massive damage, especially when combined with his built-in Fierce Stance 3 boosting his ATK).
If nothing else, Hinata's Katana should make Hinata a bit stronger as an Enemy Phase unit.

Hana: Focused Samurai - Hana's Katana
MT 16 | Grants ATK +6 when this unit initiates combat.
Skill-Refine: When this unit initiates combat and defeats an enemy, inflicts 7 damage on foes within 2 spaces of target, and inflicts ATK -7 on foes within 2 spaces of target through their next action.

Explanations: The base effect is taken from Hinata's Katana from Fates (where the weapon's MT doubled when the unit initiated combat), but was given to Hana because IMO it works better on her than him in this game.
The skill-refine references Hana's Fearsome Blow skill from Fates, which harmed enemies close to Hana when she killed someone. Here, it's Savage Blow with ATK Smoke 3 added on, letting Hana damage and nerf other enemies when she initiates and kills someone (though if you run this, you might want to run Hardy Bearing to avoid being Desperation'd to death by any damaged-enough-to-enter-Desperation-range foes who can reach Hana afterward... or just move her out of harm's way).
Hana probably doesn't need a personal weapon, but I'd like to think that this one makes her better at doing what she does well already, if nothing else.

Tailtiu: Thunder Noble - Thrud's Thoron
MT 14 | Adds +10 damage when Special triggers.
Skill-Refine: When HP < 75% at start of turn, grants Special Cooldown -1. When HP < 75% during combat, grants +10 damage dealt when Special activates.

Explanations: As the original user of Wrath, it's only right that Tailtiu get a weapon that gives her the Wrath skill (for 200 Divine Dew, but still).
As for the default skill, the Wo Dao effect is pretty good on its own, but when combined with Wrath's Special acceleration, Tailtiu can drop +20-damage Moonbows/Glimmers on anyone she doubles once her HP gets into Wrath range.
If nothing else, the sizable damage boost that Thrud's Thoron can give Tailtiu's Specials should be enough to make her stand out compared to other mages, I think.

Sonya: Vengeful Mage - Dark Excalibur [Refine]
MT 14 | Adds +10 damage when Special triggers.
Skill-Refine: Grants SPD/RES +5 during combat when within 2 spaces of Staff- or Tome-using ally.

Explanations: Sonya's getting a refinement here because Thrud's Thoron at base is basically this weapon but refineable. As such, the default effect is the same Wo Dao effect it already has.
The skill-refinement is a SPD/RES buff that's active when near a Tome-using ally (for example, Celica, whose route you recruit Sonya in in Gaiden/Echoes) or Staff-using ally (like Genny, with whom Sonya shares her one set of Support conversations in Echoes), making her situationally faster and better at tanking magic.
This might not improve Sonya too much, but a refineable Wo Dao tome is certainly a step up from a non-refineable one, if nothing else.

Gunter: Inveterate Soldier - Gunter's Axe
MT 16 | Grants DEF +7 when foe initiates combat.
Skill-Refine: If unit is within 2 spaces of Support partner, grants ATK/SPD +6 to that ally during combat.

Explanations: Gunter's Axe is meant to give Gunter a bit more utility, so to start, he gets the Safeguard effect to give him 36/40/43 DEF on Enemy Phase.
The Skill-Refine is based on Gunter's Forceful Partner skill from Fates, letting him greatly boost his Support partner's offensive stats when he's close to them (if you give him the Spur ATK or Spur SPD 3 Seal, then the maximum offensive boost that Gunter can give his Support Partner is [+2 from adjacent to Support partner + 6 from Skill-Refine skill + 6 from Hone Cavalry + 4 from Spur ATK 3 or Spur SPD 3 Seal =] +18 in one stat and +14 in the other, assuming Gunter's Support partner is a Cavalry unit).
This weapon mostly makes Gunter a better buffmaster, though the Safeguard effect could make running something like Bonfire a reasonable idea for damage-dealing. But mostly, Gunter's Axe is here to give someone else extra high offenses.

Jakob: Devoted Servant - Jakob's Tray
MT 14 | After combat, if unit attacked, inflicts DEF/RES +7 on target and units within 2 spaces of target through their next action, and grants DEF/RES +7 to unit and allies within 2 spaces of unit for 1 turn.
Skill-Refine: If unit is within 2 spaces of Support partner, grants DEF/RES +6 to that ally during combat.

Explanations: Jakob's Tray acts as a boosted Rogue's Dagger, letting Jakob inflict the dagger-standard -7 DEF/RES, but also letting him give himself and his allies +7 DEF/RES for 1 turn by attacking.
The Skill-Refine is based on Jakob's Evasive Partner skill from Fates, letting him greatly boost his Support partner's defenses when he's close to them (if you give him Spur DEF/RES 2 and the Spur DEF or Spur RES 3 Seal, then the maximum defensive boost that Jakob can give his Support Partner is [+2 from adjacent to Support partner + 6 from Skill-Refine skill + 3 from Spur DEF/RES 2 + 4 from Spur DEF or Spur RES 3 Seal + 7 from Jakob's Tray post-combat buff =] +22 in one stat and +18 in the other, making his Support partner quite a bit tougher to take down.)
Jakob's Tray makes Jakob a better supporter by giving him massive defensive buffs that he can give his allies, but he reserves the largest possible buffs for whoever his Support partner is.

Please let me know what you think of these!

Edited August 31, 2018 by ILikeKirbys

[Ice Dragon]

Now that Odin is slated to get a new weapon and refine, it's time to start taking bets on the weapon's effect.

I'm going for Litrblade as its base effect and Exalted Falchion as its refine effect.

[DehNutCase]

38 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Now that Odin is slated to get a new weapon and refine, it's time to start taking bets on the weapon's effect.

I'm going for Litrblade as its base effect and Exalted Falchion as its refine effect.

That won't be allowed as long as Bow!Lucina exists, I think. +36/+12/+12/+12 turns Odin into a literal god of war without even costing a turn.

Personally I think it's either Thunderhead (with the default stat refines + either owl effect or killer effect) or Nosferatu (without -blade). Nos being more likely, I think, since it's a unique effect that'll be a sidegrade, kind of like Leo and his Prf, which are basically two completely different, moderately viable tomes.

 

-blade is just way too hard to balance, since unlike every other weapon it tends to get stronger when powercreep happens, rather than weaker.

[Nowi's Husband]

I have Odin and Cherche at 5* but I'll have to see the weapons first.  Cherche's hammer is useful for beating armors is AA and Odin needs his bladetome just to do any damage at all. 

[Ice Dragon]

9 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

That won't be allowed as long as Bow!Lucina exists, I think.

You say that as if Legendary Lucina is the only character in the game that can use Link skills.

[DehNutCase]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

You say that as if Legendary Lucina is the only character in the game that can use Link skills.

She's the only one that can use it without costing a turn or a mobility assist.

 

Odin has other support options, but she costs the least to support.

[Humanoid]

Would take something special to replace Brave Axe on Cherche since it fits her statline so well, unlike Hinoka's and Camilla's weapons for example. Brave Hammer would do nicely enough for me, because screw Hectors and Brave Ephraims standing on the forts in GC.

While on the screw armour theme, give Celica Sacae's Blessing. Maybe something similar to the Light Brand effect on Odin.

[Ice Dragon]

4 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

She's the only one that can use it without costing a turn or a mobility assist.

With how ridiculously common Reposition is on builds, I don't think players really mind losing the turn so much as they mind losing the skill slot.

[Stroud]

For Celica I think trading Atk/Spd buff with double hit at full HP could be a thing. She and Alm just have comparable abilities on their weapons.

I guess Odin is doomed if he does not get a blade effect? But copying the effect of a Mystleteinn would be ok for him with a good special. But I guess that is something they keep for Ophelia. After all Odin is past his Chuunibyou.

I guess Blade with Special Trigger -1 and more mt would be good. 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Stroud

[DehNutCase]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

With how ridiculously common Reposition is on builds, I don't think players really mind losing the turn so much as they mind losing the skill slot.

If it's a pure enemy phase Odin, maybe, but that's kind of a waste of his fairly decent offenses. Player phase units are a bit more sensitive to losing unit-turns since they can only get more via Galeforce. 

 

And Lucina uses Atk/Def Link (or, ideally in the future, Atk/Spd Link) really well, since it's also a self-buff for her own player phase, freeing up the rest of the team to run drives. She doesn't really need much from her B-slot, her mobility is absurd via Future Visions already, self-buffing adds to her combat, and sustain isn't too much of a problem for someone with brave weapon and firesweep access.

Other people lose the B-slot as a skill slot since they can't really leverage link to self buff (someone is going to lose a turn, even if it's not them), but Lucina doesn't really have that issue.

[Korath88]

I don't think they will change the original effect of Ragnarok, but rather upgrade it to only drop 1 HP like Atk/Spd push 

I'm honestly unsure as to what the best possible refine for it would be but please don't let it be another bond.

[Garlyle]

If Odin's refinement give +4 to all his stats, he can work alone pretty well. His weakness is his attack strength. Even if he would get an effective against *something* effect, that might be only good as a situational unit, and why would we invest Divine Dew into that one?

[Ice Dragon]

15 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

If it's a pure enemy phase Odin, maybe, but that's kind of a waste of his fairly decent offenses.

How? Odin receives the buffs from Link regardless of if he is the unit using Reposition or the unit being targeted by Reposition. Odin doesn't lose his turn if someone else is the one using Reposition, and an Odin with stat buffs that strong can afford to give up his B slot for a Link skill so that regardless of who uses Reposition on him, he'll always get the buff.

[Diovani Bressan]

What IS could do is give  Odin a Legendary Blade tome (like Green Olwen), and the extra effect could be the Exalted Falchion's effect (grants bonus to Atk/Spd/Def/Res during combat = current bonus on each of unit's stats).

[ILikeKirbys]

No Azura? Damn, I was certain she was gonna get a personal weapon this time.

As for the actual weapons we're getting:

Cherche's Axe... I was expecting her to get Helswath, so I'm gonna go ahead and assume this means we're getting Helswath!Lex for next banner. As for what Cherche herself is getting... I'm gonna guess a 16-MT Slaying Axe+, possibly with Armor-effectiveness too since Nephenee got both of those effects so why not, and for the skill-refine, hoping for Odd/Even ATK Wave 3 (for more power, could be combined with Even/Odd ATK Wave 3 when we get that to stay at +6 all the time), DEF-based follow-up denial (because Cherche has enough DEF that this would probably work pretty decently on her) or Lancebreaker 3 (a nice thing to have sometimes, though probably not as good as the other possibilities I listed).

Odin's Grimoire is gonna be Nameless Blade But It's A Tome. I'm calling it now. I highly doubt they'll give him a refineable Bladetome, even if he probably needs it to be on par with literally any other Blue mage who can be handed Blarblade+... though if they did, a refineable Bladetome (with or without the Special Cooldown +1, though I would guess with) with ATK/SPD Link or DEF/RES Link would be a good way to make Odin better.

Celica's getting, at minimum, upgraded to ATK/SPD Push 3 on her weapon (current Ragnarok costs 5 HP, ATK/SPD Push costs 1). I'm hoping that Celica gets some sort of HP-Recovery effect on her skill-refinement, be it Renewal 3, Recover Ring, Built-In Daylight, some kind of Lifetaker, or something else that heals Celica so she can either stay in or get back to 100% HP.

Edited August 30, 2018 by ILikeKirbys