General Weapon Refinery discussion/speculation/creation thread

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Etheus said:

Is it always? I could have sworn that they will often release early enough ahead that stat datamines often occur (not for that reason, only incidentally so). 

The update adds the refines and characters into the game immediately (hence why we can get datamines of stats the moment the update appears on the app store), but the characters aren't pullable until the banner actually goes live at the daily reset.

[Diovani Bressan]

Edited May 9, 2019 by Diovani Bressan

[Kaden]

Man, somebody on the development team hates Shiro. :p

Edited May 9, 2019 by Kaden

[Humanoid]

Stahl quadding back when attacked, sounds like fun times. Sully on the other hand suffers for it since she doesn't have the appropriate statline - stinks somewhat of a thoughtless approach where they just blindly apply the same effect without thinking. What happened to the retrofit Prfs being tailored to best address each unit's particular issues? At least their weapons are strictly upgrades from what they carry now, so no harm in learning them I suppose.

Lukas is fine but I don't think I could justify 200 dew for it at this stage as a Def-refined Slaying Lance is close enough. Never pulled a Faye so eh.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

26 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Man, somebody on the development team hates Shiro. :p

I'm not one of the developers but thanks for noticing me

Jk, I never recruited any of the Fates kids.

Faye's base effect is interesting, probably taking advantage of Faye's very balanced statline. And I'm glad it wasn't just a guard bow, but something that provides some speed and attack power as well. I also got my wish for Stahl and Sully maintaing their gem weapons since I care more about AA counters than I do about units being all star characters. If the "unit attacks twice" stacks with Quick Riposte than Stahl and even Sully might get some decent damage. 

[Fabulously Olivier]

Lukas' refine is as good as I'd hoped. 

[Jingle Jangle]

ooo Faye's personal bow give 4+ to all stats when attacked and qr5. I can make good use out of this. I can see link skills being a good b slot for her now. If only I had distance defense 4.

[Xenomata]

Lukas gets pretty much exactly what we were expecting... whoda thought. It's kinda like his normal variant and his Picnic variant fused their weapons together to make this...

Sully and Stahl get the exact same weapon. Sully at least can prevent certain doubles with her Speed and has... mixed enough defenses that she can take most anything Red have to throw at her. Distant Counter on her wouldn't be the worst thing in the world, but... man, she has low Atk...

As for Stahl... well, at least he'll be a devoted Axe killer. I could see him taking a few Green Manaketes on as well, but... hm...

Faye got way more than she ever had since the release of the game. Sure she loses a little bit of ranged defensive ability, but she then gets a little more Attack as well. And me oh my Quick Riposte as the forge? So glad I invested Distant Defense 4 into her now.

Glad I saved my Divine Dews to see what comes this update. I think Hana can wait a little longer for her refine to ensure Faye and Lukas get the treatment they deserve...

[LordFrigid]

For Faye, I’m not sure how I feel about losing out on all those defensive stats (2 HP, 3 flat Res, and 2 Def/Res when defending at 2-range), but it’s definitely worth at least trying out refined Bow of Devotion. QR5, Steady Stance 4, and Dull Ranged 3 is a nice suite of defensive effects. If I ever pull a spare copy of Null C-Disrupt, I might consider giving it to her.

Edited May 9, 2019 by LordFrigid

[Hilda]

whats up with the latest garbage refines?

We used to get interesting refines like Felicia, Seliph, Jaffar etc. 

or good ones like Raven, Clair, Carda etc.

[redlight]

Meh. They seem to blow all their load on new heroes' prfs when coming up with new weapons.

[colossus86]

I've never used Faye but her prf seems fine on paper. Lukas' is solid but nothing to spend dew on unless you really have nothing better to do.

I... sort of apprtiate what they wanted to do with Sully/Stahl. Even if they leverage their super boons in atk and spd respectively, they are still out classed on the player phase. I think Sully suffers from forced symmetry here but at least they tried something new as Camus and Xander are the only Cavs with dedicated enemy phase prfs.

Edit: Also ward stacking is a thing so they can get their defenses up to healthy amounts. Also you can use CA in your build if you aren't partial to the gem effects

 I'm actually starting to come around on these... If i were ever willing to use Enemy Phase Cavs that is.

Edited May 9, 2019 by colossus86

[redlight]

I feel as though Stahl and Sully benefit more from horse bond brave effect with TA than just +2 atk/def for horses near unit.

Lukas' is just a small upgrade. Rather meh. More attack is good, but it's not that big of an improvement

Faye is okay I guess.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

7 hours ago, Kaden said:

Man, somebody on the development team hates Shiro. :p

Its weird because Shiro is one of those character who have Tier 1 weapon right before tier 2 become a thing. Same with Siegbert but at least his tier 1 weapon is fucking swift sparrow so hes still really freaking good

 

Refined weapon already shits on tier 2 weapon in concept, because they have 2 effect AND +3 HP so tier 1 just get dicked even harder

[Ice Dragon]

Well, it looks like my next Caineghis is being fed to Faye. I'm extremely satisfied with her weapon, and I'm glad at least someone on the design team actually understands how this game works.

I'm thinking a set of

• Bow of Devotion [unique]
• Moonbow / Iceberg / Glacies / Aether
• Distant Def 4
• Null C-Disrupt 3
• Distant Def 3 / Warding Stance 3

for use in Aether Raids.

Effectively Distant Kestrel Stance 2 + Distant Def 9 + Dull Ranged 3 + Quick Riposte 5 + Null C-Disrupt 3. That's some serious slot efficiency.

[Kaden]

Stahl and Sully's enemy phase Brave effect made me think of Subaki getting it or rather, an enemy phase version of Palla's Whitewing Blade. The thing is that it wouldn't really reference his personal skill, Perfectionist, or his Pike in Fates. Still, it'd be hilarious considering Subaki comes with Quick Riposte.

"Whitewing" Pike: "16 Mt. If unit has weapon-triangle advantage, boosts Atk by 20%.If unit has weapon-triangle disadvantage, reduces Atk by 20%."

Unique refinement options:

• "If flying allies within 2 spaces uses sword, lance, or axe and if foe initiates combat, unit attacks twice." Stahl and Sully's enemy phase Brave effect.
• "If the number of flying allies within 2 spaces ≥ 2, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+3 during combat, and if foe initiates combat, unit attacks twice." Whitewing sisters' Brave effect, but on enemy phase.
• "If the number of flying allies within 2 spaces ≥ 2, grants Def/Res+7 during combat, and if foe initiates combat, unit attacks twice." Subaki's more of a tank, but against reds, this probably would be overkill.

If going off of what his what his personal skill does and what his Pike does in Fates, then he'd probably have something very underwhelming. Perfectionist's effect is "Hit rate and Avoid +15 when HP is full." Heroes doesn't have hit rate or avoid, so this closest thing would be Guard 1. Not Guard 3 or Guard EX like on The Land's Bounty weapons, but straight up Guard 1.

As for Subaki's Pike's effect in Fates: "Doubles Mt when wielder's Skill is higher then enemy's." Heroes doesn't have the Skill stat either and I can't really think of anything really for this.

[Corrobin]

I think a +6 buff to everything when Subaki has full HP at the start of combat could work for a weapon.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

37 minutes ago, Kaden said:

Stahl and Sully's enemy phase Brave effect made me think of Subaki getting it or rather, an enemy phase version of Palla's Whitewing Blade. The thing is that it wouldn't really reference his personal skill, Perfectionist, or his Pike in Fates. Still, it'd be hilarious considering Subaki comes with Quick Riposte.

"Whitewing" Pike: "16 Mt. If unit has weapon-triangle advantage, boosts Atk by 20%.If unit has weapon-triangle disadvantage, reduces Atk by 20%."

Unique refinement options:

• "If flying allies within 2 spaces uses sword, lance, or axe and if foe initiates combat, unit attacks twice." Stahl and Sully's enemy phase Brave effect.
• "If the number of flying allies within 2 spaces ≥ 2, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+3 during combat, and if foe initiates combat, unit attacks twice." Whitewing sisters' Brave effect, but on enemy phase.
• "If the number of flying allies within 2 spaces ≥ 2, grants Def/Res+7 during combat, and if foe initiates combat, unit attacks twice." Subaki's more of a tank, but against reds, this probably would be overkill.

If going off of what his what his personal skill does and what his Pike does in Fates, then he'd probably have something very underwhelming. Perfectionist's effect is "Hit rate and Avoid +15 when HP is full." Heroes doesn't have hit rate or avoid, so this closest thing would be Guard 1. Not Guard 3 or Guard EX like on The Land's Bounty weapons, but straight up Guard 1.

As for Subaki's Pike's effect in Fates: "Doubles Mt when wielder's Skill is higher then enemy's." Heroes doesn't have the Skill stat either and I can't really think of anything really for this.

Skill = crit = proc

 

Wo Dao Effect or huge damage boost during special works

[Fabulously Olivier]

On 5/9/2019 at 11:06 PM, Kaden said:

Stahl and Sully's enemy phase Brave effect made me think of Subaki getting it or rather, an enemy phase version of Palla's Whitewing Blade. The thing is that it wouldn't really reference his personal skill, Perfectionist, or his Pike in Fates. Still, it'd be hilarious considering Subaki comes with Quick Riposte.

"Whitewing" Pike: "16 Mt. If unit has weapon-triangle advantage, boosts Atk by 20%.If unit has weapon-triangle disadvantage, reduces Atk by 20%."

Unique refinement options:

• "If flying allies within 2 spaces uses sword, lance, or axe and if foe initiates combat, unit attacks twice." Stahl and Sully's enemy phase Brave effect.
• "If the number of flying allies within 2 spaces ≥ 2, grants Atk/Spd/Def/Res+3 during combat, and if foe initiates combat, unit attacks twice." Whitewing sisters' Brave effect, but on enemy phase.
• "If the number of flying allies within 2 spaces ≥ 2, grants Def/Res+7 during combat, and if foe initiates combat, unit attacks twice." Subaki's more of a tank, but against reds, this probably would be overkill.

If going off of what his what his personal skill does and what his Pike does in Fates, then he'd probably have something very underwhelming. Perfectionist's effect is "Hit rate and Avoid +15 when HP is full." Heroes doesn't have hit rate or avoid, so this closest thing would be Guard 1. Not Guard 3 or Guard EX like on The Land's Bounty weapons, but straight up Guard 1.

As for Subaki's Pike's effect in Fates: "Doubles Mt when wielder's Skill is higher then enemy's." Heroes doesn't have the Skill stat either and I can't really think of anything really for this.

Subaki:

If unit's hp = 100% at start of combat, unit attacks twice (dual phase). Unit takes 1 damage after combat.

Refine - Atk/Spd Push 3

[colossus86]

Well It's about that time again. Topping my personal hopes is still Mathilda. And IS' aggression at addressing all the uninspiring lance units over the past few months fills me with hope. Other than that I'm hoping my boy Gray gets some love. Amelia getting a refine means gen 1 trainees are on the table, and he's still one of the worst 5 star units in the game.

As for things that should happen... Jaigen and Gunther could probably use those support refines I suggested a while back. Then there's all those terrible Fates units in the 3-4 star pool. F!Corrin being left in the state she's in since launch has always been a surprise to me. Some more of the colorless pool could certainly use some love. And as I've said before some of the low end GHB units could use a Navarre esq. pick-me-up.

This round in the "didn't need it but hey you're kinda popular" sweepstakes, Nowi and Fae are still around, and a better light breath could be nice for arena.

Three important thresholds IS has yet to pass are: Not giving any pure gen 2 units a refine, not giving any staff unit a refine, and not giving any refines to DC weapons. I can't help but wonder which one of these will give first... (Probably the Gen 2 thing)

[Fabulously Olivier]

My hopes are for:

Hawkeye and/or Barst for axes

Laslow for swords

Berkut and/or Finn for lances

Virion and/or Jamke for bows

Kaze and/or Legault for daggers

Boey and/or Lyon for tomes

Female Corrin for dragonstones

Lucius for staves

Edited May 30, 2019 by Etheus

[Stroud]

Somehow I think it would be interesting for Julius to get a refine with Loptous now. Just give us to spice things up with him and justify the effect.
Other than that I am still waiting for Selena, Beruka, Athena, Sheena or Wendy. who are my merged units D=. 
Units who I just saved up and hope for refines are, Kagero, Leon, Mathilda, Mae, Boey.

For Athena almost anything helping with cooldown could help out.

For Selena, Saggitae would be awesome, alternately anything which helps her to survive easier and make use of her rounded stats. I could also imagine her getting Warding Breath and Beruka getting Steady Breath.

 

[Hilda]

Hopeing for refines on:

Saizo
Arvis + Saias (yes, his Valflame has been surpassed by Chill skills and his RES usually doesnt cut it anymore in some modes)
Hawkeye
Valter
Lyon

Also Ryoma (legendary and regular), Camus and Xander could use some love on the refines of their Distant Counter weapons, they are heavily outclassed

[Jingle Jangle]

I do wish Rhajat got a refine soon because currently she's a middle of the road green mage with a higher rarity. Perhaps something similar to Tharja would benefit her.

I was thinking of an effect of Niu. For the idea of her being a reverse blade tome to be a counterpart with her Awakening self. I do wonder the effectiveness of that skill being on a ranged unit.

Edited May 31, 2019 by Jingle Jangle

[colossus86]

33 minutes ago, Stroud said:

Somehow I think it would be interesting for Julius to get a refine with Loptous now

Julius having what passes for Gen 2 bst for an infantry mage and IS never refining +stat weapons (since they consider it a full effect) make this rather unlikely. Although I agree in light of Tharja and the Adrift Tomes Loptous isn't in the best place.

25 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Arvis + Saias (yes, his Valflame has been surpassed by Chill skills and his RES usually doesnt cut it anymore in some modes)

Since Katerina's weapon established duel ploys to be a single effect, Arvis is Eligible. Saias on the other hand has the curse of a few additional BST. Also Valter has the same issue as Julius, even if one of your effects is bad, it's still 2 effects.

 

27 minutes ago, Hilda said:

Also Ryoma (legendary and regular), Camus and Xander could use some love on the refines of their Distant Counter weapons, they are heavily outclassed

I actually think all the Infantry DC units are in a decent spot. They can run bonus doubler with Null-C or Vantage to great effect and while that's one expensive build it is a very effective one. Camus sharing his weapon with Hardin probably means he's screwed for quite some time.

 

16 minutes ago, Jingle Jangle said:

I was thinking of an effect of Niu. For the idea of her being a reverse blade tome to be a counterpart with her Awakening self. I do wonder the effectiveness of that skill being on a ranged unit.

That would make her an outstanding Vantage option for AR. Many teams run field buffs and with potentially 38 Atk as base she could do some serious damage.