Hawkwing Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 (edited) @XRay Spoiler 1 hour ago, XRay said: For the Genesis thing, Jacob did nothing to prevent his sons from violence and God did nothing to prevent such atrocities from happening. Jacob basically gave them a slap on the wrist and a lecture. On the other hand, when intervention means destruction and suffering, God seems much more willing to intervene as seen in the following. The Bible does not say that what Simeon and Levi did was good. Nor does it condone their behavior. God is open about how the people he uses are flawed, and Simeon and Levi did an evil act against a man that did an evil act against their sister, and tried to hide behind it by marrying her and convincing his people to intermarry with the Israelites, despite God saying never to do this. God does not hide the sins of the people he uses, yet is clear that he finds worth in flawed humans. This was a situation where neither was in the right. One side raped and innocent woman and tried to lead a people into further sin. The other spoke deceitfully and murdered many to avenge their defiled sister. 1 hour ago, XRay said: Exactly. Do you kill your wife and give her family anthrax if she cheats on you? No. You divorce her and take custody of your kids. The punishment has to match the crime. God in the Old Testament have anger management issues and a huge lack of self control. When God acts, often times it means indiscriminate suffering for many people. And who says humans know good and evil better than God? They are inconsistent about their laws, no matter the time period. They have called good evil and evil good countless times. Not to mention that Jesus actions changed several old testament laws. We no longer have to sacrifice animals for our sins; we can ask God to forgive us directly. No longer do we put adulterers, thieves, and murderers to death, they can be granted a second chance. It should also be noted, less we throw away the Old Testament Laws, that the book Jesus quoted the most was Deuteronomy. 1 hour ago, XRay said: I am pretty sure God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son once. God back tracked at the last moment. That is a pretty sick and disgusting way to test someone's loyalty, and if it were anyone else but God, they would be condemned for utilizing such tactics. Luke 14:26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his own father and mother and wife and children and brothers and sisters, yes, and even his own life, he cannot be my disciple." Jesus is not saying that we must be angry at the important people in our life or that we must see only the negative of parts of ourselves. On the contrary, God says to love and obey our fathers and mothers, and a key result of true humility that a person sees the worth and beauty in all things, including himself, and is no less (or more) happy about someone else great achievements than they would be their own. Instead Jesus is saying that, when the choice comes between following God and following our family or friends, that God takes priority, no matter how much must be sacrificed. It reminds me of Malachi 1:2-3, where "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated". In Genesis, as far as we can tell, nothing terrible falls upon Esau's life. His tribe, the Edomites, were eventually destroyed poetically for their actions against Israel far in the future, but nothing says that Esau met a nasty end or lived a less than happy life. Jacob, meanwhile suffers much humiliation, deception, tragedy, and bereavements. Yet he is was used by God in countless ways. 1 hour ago, XRay said: If it were that easy to satisfy victims of abuse, many victims of abuse would not have to go through counseling and suffer continued mental anguish after their ordeal. The passage makes it seem like it is okay to abuse Job because God will reward him later. I am not okay with that. That just seems messed up. God does not let us suffer more than we can bear. Job was considered an upright and righteous man, and when all his troubles came, and he lost everything and suffered under several personal illnesses, he did not blame or criticize God for his troubles. To quote C.S Lewis “Why should the righteous suffer? Why not? They’re the only ones who can handle it!” Job questioned why these evils befall him when he committed no sin, which his friends did not understand, believing that if he asked for forgiveness, he would be forgiven, except that there was no evil to repent of. The two people who successfully rebuked Job, Elihu and God, did so with wisdom, with the former stating that Job justified his own actions rather than praise God's, and with God asking Job if a human could understand the end from the beginning and just how must knowledge and power He has. Job as a whole shows that innocence can suffer even if they do no wrong. That's a truth of life, and rather than blame God for this, we should praise Him for the chance to grow stronger and closer to Him through the struggles. 1 hour ago, XRay said: So that means God is not omnipotent since He does not have the power to give humans free will and the power to always reject evil at the same time. If God is so easily offended by such a simple question, He probably is not so benevolent in the first place either. It would not be free will if we had the inability to reject evil. We can choose not to steal, not to murder someone, not to have an affair, not to lie, not to cheat. We can also chose to do those things. The fact that both options are available means that we have free will. However, if I was literally unable to cheat, and I mean literally and not some fancy workaround or excuse, despite knowing what it was, then it would not be free will, but instead a clever form of automation. And God did not want robots worshiping Him, but humans that could chose to love and follow Him out of their own free will, or to reject and hate Him with that same free will. To force a human to do good would be a violation of free will, and that is not what He wants nor does. *** I used a few resources while answering this. If you want to review them for yourself: Chuck Smiths Commentary on Genesis: https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/smith_chuck/c2000_Gen/Gen_032.cfm Chuck Missler's notes on Job: http://cobalt.rocky.edu/~hyla.thompson/bible_notes/13 Job Notes.pdf C.S. Lewis's The Four Loves: https://www.ccearlsfield.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/the-four-loves.pdf Edited April 24, 2019 by Hawkwing Added in some resources I used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted April 24, 2019 Author Share Posted April 24, 2019 Then you're snuffling and you're the Snuffleupagus. Is there a Bigger Bird that lives on Sesame Street? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espurrhoodie Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Perhaps. Is it a general consensus that Evillious Chronicles is the most confusing Vocaloid song series? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 No idea what that is. Is Hatsune Miku the most famous vocaloid? 20 hours ago, Purple Mage said: When will Hawkwing and XRay finish their debate? I'm staying out of this. 20 hours ago, Emperor_Siegfried said: When they have answered the question that continues to ellude the minds of humans to this day and will continue to do so for millennia to come. Should either one of them achieve an empirical answer, it will truly be a grand achievement that will dwarf all other progression that the human race has discovered in its time on this planet. 42 is the answer to life's mysteries. @Hawkwing Spoiler 19 hours ago, Hawkwing said: And who says humans know good and evil better than God? They are inconsistent about their laws, no matter the time period. They have called good evil and evil good countless times. Not to mention that Jesus actions changed several old testament laws. We no longer have to sacrifice animals for our sins; we can ask God to forgive us directly. No longer do we put adulterers, thieves, and murderers to death, they can be granted a second chance. It should also be noted, less we throw away the Old Testament Laws, that the book Jesus quoted the most was Deuteronomy. And God is consistent? He violated His own Commandment of not to kill like countless times. 19 hours ago, Hawkwing said: Instead Jesus is saying that, when the choice comes between following God and following our family or friends, that God takes priority, no matter how much must be sacrificed. A god that makes a person choose between faith and loved ones is no god to me. Such a god is no different from false gods and demons that demand evil deeds from their followers, the very type of beings that God warned people about to not worship. 19 hours ago, Hawkwing said: God does not let us suffer more than we can bear. Job was considered an upright and righteous man, and when all his troubles came, and he lost everything and suffered under several personal illnesses, he did not blame or criticize God for his troubles. To quote C.S Lewis “Why should the righteous suffer? Why not? They’re the only ones who can handle it!” Job questioned why these evils befall him when he committed no sin, which his friends did not understand, believing that if he asked for forgiveness, he would be forgiven, except that there was no evil to repent of. The two people who successfully rebuked Job, Elihu and God, did so with wisdom, with the former stating that Job justified his own actions rather than praise God's, and with God asking Job if a human could understand the end from the beginning and just how must knowledge and power He has. Job as a whole shows that innocence can suffer even if they do no wrong. That's a truth of life, and rather than blame God for this, we should praise Him for the chance to grow stronger and closer to Him through the struggles. Replace God with any bully, sex offender, abuser, or horrible person you can think of and that logic is not going to fly. 19 hours ago, Hawkwing said: It would not be free will if we had the inability to reject evil. The point is that God did not give us free will AND the ability to be above the temptation of evil. He only gave us the former and not the latter. Not giving us the latter means He has damned those unable to resist evil. If God is truly benevolent, why would he allow His creations to fall to evil? Free will and the ability to always reject evil are not mutually exclusive things. With how shitty this reality is, God cannot be both omnibenevolent and omnipotent at the sametime. God can have one or none of those traits, but definitely not both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espurrhoodie Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Yes, however, she is not the first; she's the seventh. How does this hypothetical roster for another FEW game sound? (Spoiler due to length): Spoiler Tried to limit it to three characters per game, but I made a slight exception for FE4 since it's huge: Shadow Dragon: Marth, Caeda, and Tiki. Gaiden/SoV: Alm, Celica, and Berkut. Mystery of the Emblem: not that knowledgable on this one, so I'm going to spitball and say that Camus, Hardin, and Nyna woukd be good reps for MotE. Genealogy gen 1: Sigurd, Deirdre, and Arvis. Genealogy gen 2: Seliph, Julia, and Jullius. Thracia 776: Leif, Finn, and Nanna. Binding Blade: Roy, Lillina, and either Zephiel or Idunn. Blazing Blade: Eliwood, Lyn, and Hector. Sacred Stones: Ephraim, Eirika, and Lyon. (Gonna spitball for these next two) Path of Radiance: Ike, Elincia, and either Soren or Ashnard. Radiant Dawn: Sothe, Micaiah, and Zelgius. Awakening: Chrom, Lucina, and Robin. Fates: Corrin, Azura, and either Anankos or Garon. Seems unlikely, and it's also kind of sword-heavy, but it seems passable to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted April 25, 2019 Author Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) Passable. Should the OoT Goron City music play when fat people ride the motorized carts at Walmart? Also..hate to be a hardass, but @Hawkwing and @XRay can you take your debate to PM? It's in spoilers but yeah, no sense in doing it here when PMs exist. Edited April 25, 2019 by Dragoncat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 That is messed up. With how fat America is, would it be cheaper for oil companies to give people liposuction instead of drilling for oil? 4 minutes ago, Dragoncat said: Also..hate to be a hardass, but @Hawkwing and @XRay can you take your debate to PM? It's in spoilers but yeah, no sense in doing it here when PMs exist. Sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwing Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 @XRay Spoiler 49 minutes ago, XRay said: And God is consistent? He violated His own Commandment of not to kill like countless times. Exodus 20:13 You shall not murder. God is no fool. There is a time to kill and a time to heal (Ecclesiastes 3:3). There are some evil people in the world who will repent of their sins when faced with judgment, and others who will not. There are times when men must take up arms to defend the homes, country, and families they love, even if it means killing the attackers. 49 minutes ago, XRay said: A god that makes a person choose between faith and loved ones is no god to me. Such a god is no different from false gods and demons that demand evil deeds from their followers, the very type of beings that God warned people about to not worship. Sarah told Abraham to sleep with their slave Hagar when she was barren, and laughed when God said that she would give birth to a child. Jesus's parents criticized him for getting lost instead of praising him teaching in the temple. Solomon's many wives led to worship of false gods in the land and the splitting of the kingdom of Israel. Sometimes the people closest to us are also the ones holding us back the most. And when that happens, it is our choice whether to put our trust in God, or in humans. 49 minutes ago, XRay said: Replace God with any bully, sex offender, abuser, or horrible person you can think of and that logic is not going to fly. Would the bully, sex offender, abuser, or horrible person show mercy? Would they help you through those tough times? You act as if God slew Jobs family and lifestock Himself. He did not. Satan had to ask permission to do those things. Satan is not God's equal, and the everything that happens in the universe is an open book to God. He sees the end from the beginning, and will aid us in our hardships. Sometimes without us even knowing. 50 minutes ago, XRay said: The point is that God did not give us free will AND the ability to be above the temptation of evil. He only gave us the former and not the latter. Not giving us the latter means He has damned those unable to resist evil. If God is truly benevolent, why would he allow His creations to fall to evil? Free will and the ability to always reject evil are not mutually exclusive things. We DO have the ability to resist the temptation to do evil! Every. Single. Day. We can choose whether or not we engage in good, in evil, or neither. That's what our free will allows. The temptation is always there. It will always be there, because when Adam and Eve disobeyed God at the garden of Eden, humans gained the knowledge of good and evil, and thus a sin nature to know and do those wicked things. If we were unable to do evil, then it would not be free will. We can choose to lead upright lives, but that is through resisting and defending against the enemies attacks and the temptation to do wrong. We have the ability to choose to do the right thing, or the wrong thing. There is no way free will can be present in our current state. Even in the New Earth and N Heaven, where evil will be abolished, everyone there will have known what evil is. 10 minutes ago, Dragoncat said: Also..hate to be a hardass, but @Hawkwing and @XRay can you take your debate to PM? It's in spoilers but yeah, no sense in doing it here when PMs exist. My apologies. I saw something I knew was false, and was compelled to speak. I believe the argument is starting to cool down now, though. If it is not, then we will take it to PMs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted April 25, 2019 Author Share Posted April 25, 2019 53 minutes ago, XRay said: With how fat America is, would it be cheaper for oil companies to give people liposuction instead of drilling for oil? No because the equipment needed for that will cost them millions even with insurance. Why does Waluigi have a taco stand? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor_Siegfried Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 I actually wanted to bring this up. From what I gathered, it was apparently a meme on Gamefaqs before memes got to be as big as they are and the idea was mentioned somewhere long ago. Speaking of which, how did said meme get to be so big that it managed to motivate some hackers to decide to make a Super Mario 64 hack based on the premise? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFlames Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Memes be memes, I guess. Also, I apologize for indirectly sparking a religious debate with my question. I hope you can find it in your hearts to forgive me. Who came up with the idea of fanfiction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espurrhoodie Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Teenage girls. Would you like to hear the word of our Lord and savior Ebony Dark'ness Dementia Raven Way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor_Siegfried Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 ebony's name is ENOBY nut mary su OK! Does love really mean never having to say you're sorry, or does it really mean always having to say you're sorry? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dismissed Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Both. Is it weird that my OC is caught in a love triangle between his two potential love interests while his female counterpart is off to the side? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawkwing Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Not really. Both love triangles and characters not engaging in romance are common in fiction. What is the actual quality of the metals found in meteorites? 1 hour ago, DragonFlames said: Also, I apologize for indirectly sparking a religious debate with my question. I hope you can find it in your hearts to forgive me. Apology accepted. Don't worry about it. Unpredictable answers are an inherit risk in these topics. Besides, it's both my and Xrays fault for not taking it to PM's earlier. It is good discussion, but it shouldn't have lasted as long as it did within this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted April 25, 2019 Author Share Posted April 25, 2019 40 minutes ago, Hawkwing said: What is the actual quality of the metals found in meteorites? They kill Superman so you tell me. Why are robin eggs blue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nym Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Because otherwise they would tip the scales. Or attract bats. Why don't cat fish purr? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFlames Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Because they catfish you. Come to think of it, why are catfish called catfish when they look nothing like cats? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor_Siegfried Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Same reason sailors think manatees are mermaids. At least catfish are a bit closer to what they resemble. (Then again some sailors might have a fetish for overweight wrinkled old people...) What do you think Victoria's secret is and why does she not share it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted April 25, 2019 Author Share Posted April 25, 2019 Her secret is that the lingerie she sells is overpriced. Can you ever be too white and nerdy to sing White and Nerdy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonFlames Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Yes! Can you answer every question with "no" and tell the truth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emperor_Siegfried Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Probably depends on what question you get asked. ie, you want something but someone asks you if you do want it and you say no. Who is the best Pokémon Gijinka artist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espurrhoodie Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 (edited) Not me. Where did the Clive x Joel's dad Kermit the Frog ship come from? Edited April 25, 2019 by Espurrhoodie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoncat Posted April 25, 2019 Author Share Posted April 25, 2019 I have never even heard of that. Why is somebody putting Ronald Mc Donald statues in an abandoned house in Florida? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espurrhoodie Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 It's Florida, that's the only answer you need. Does drinking half of a 5-hour energy give you 2.5 hours of boosted energy, or 5 hours of half-assed energy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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