Religion.

[Krevin]

It's a little hard to do that, considering the volume of contradictory, outdated, and morally questionable content in the Bible.

Contradictory? Proof or it didn't happen.

Also:

chew on that one for a while.

[Thingy Person]

chew on that one for a while.

You make a persuasive argument. NOT

Hell, there was a similar macro detailing how a cosmic jewish zombie and a rib-woman who got fooled by a talking snake makes perfect sense, and it was slightly more amusing.

As for contradictions:

http://www.religionisbullshit.net/articles...tradictions.php

[Phoenix]

I love those! See I'm not a traditional Christian because the interpretation is clearly wrong. But I'm not an Athiest primarily because of that picture Krevin posted, it's not that crazy to believe in a creator, it's just hard to with no in your face evidence.

Also... Krevin, I'm so posting that thing whenver Revan and Esau get back lol. After all them posting the Christian version of that "perfect sense" thing is pointless as I am not a T. Christian

[Esau of Isaac]

Contradictory? Proof or it didn't happen.

You don't think that many of the events that occur in the Bible are contradictory to reality?

Also:

chew on that one for a while.

Atheism is only necessarily associated with a lack of belief in God; that's it.

So, first learn your shit about science, because that's a pretty pitifully incorrect view of science's take, and second learn your shit about atheism.

But HURR let me add one for the sake of the macro chain:

[Agro]

For clarity, it's "Qu'ran".

I'm Catholic by birth, and you know what? I think the Bible is bullshit. It's old. Way old. Society evolves, humans evolve, things change. If someone were still following the Bible down to the last letter, they would be on the streets by now.

One of the things that has really made me think this is me being bisexual. Yes, that means I like boys too. Probably more than girls. But that's not the topic at hand, so we'll try to deviate from that. I think condemning homosexuals and whoever else is stupid. To me, religion is more of a guideline on life than anything.

I believe in God, and in science. Maybe there's a bit of both in the world. I want to believe that there's life after death. I don't want to simply stop existing.

[Cynthia]

To be honest, I see more Atheists preach that they are right and everyone should listen to them than Christians. Who cares who is right? How about we just listen to our OWN beliefs and use them to be better people. Honestly this is why Atheism is just as bad as Christianity in the "we're right your wrong so believe us!" department.

Little known fact, but actually the Atheists are what helps cause the religious arguments and holy wars. If Atheists would shut their mouths and just believe what they want without trying to convince people they were right, the religious people would retaliate as much, then Atheists could actually blame them. They are just as guilty though. They attack the religious people, and laugh at their retaliations.

Who cares who's right? Are you not going to be able to sleep at night just because someone believes there is some power watching over them and that feeling brings them comfort and helps them get through the day? Why bother ridiculing what people believe if it makes them happy, and gives them a reason to be good people.

Now the argument that Christians use their faith to sway the law such as in gay marriage is completely different. You don't have to say their entire religion is wrong and that they should listen to you to tell them that they can't use religion to make the laws.

Honestly though, Christians need to learn to stop trying to convert everyone, and Atheists need to stop complaining, and telling people they are all wrong. The fact of the matter is that neither of side can prove they are 100% correct, and that it won't matter.

Why not let people just do what makes them happy and not tell them they are wrong.

And don't bother making absurd arguments such as, "well what if murder makes me happy, should I do it then?" The fact of the matter is the Christian faith and all other major religions condemn murder. You can disagree with something they do without saying their entire religion is wrong.

Yes I'm a hypocrite at times, but that doesn't mean I can't change my opinion or mind.

It's always been my opinion though, that although I don't support the Christian or Muslim, or whatever faith you can think of, that I think they all should listen to me and not do what makes them happy.

That's what it's about; being happy (within the confines of the law that is. i.e. no murder, rape, human sacrifices, etc.)

[Shuuda]

Who cares who is right?

...Try everyone. If you did not believe that your opinion just now was right, you would not have posted it.

How about we just listen to our OWN beliefs and use them to be better people

Because I do not believe that many of the Christian (and religion) beliefs do better people, see discrimination against homosexuals/atheists/other religions and no doubt many other groups "God" does not like. Sure, many Christians possess the brain not to fall into these kind of things, but many other still do; and they need to be taught a damn good lesson. Until such prejudice ends, I am firmly opposed to organised religion.

Why should I have to put up with something that believe is hurting someone? And they probably see atheists in the same way.

Atheists are what helps cause the holy wars

Care to give an example, not including any where Atheists are the ones being discriminated against in the war. Because reading up a bit of history on wiki, I'm getting the impression it has been the Christians who could not tolerate us.

Why bother ridiculing what people believe if it makes them happy, and gives them a reason to be good people.

Because I view it as a false hope and a waste of time.

Now the argument that Christians use their faith to sway the law such as in gay marriage is completely different.

As I have implied before, religion has hurt/discriminated many more groups though out history including, but not limited to: Homosexuals, "non-believers", black people, "witches", and even other Christians who have thought independently.

As far as I am concerned, Religion (particularly Christianity) was an overblown bully. Sure, the problem is not as big was it used to be, but it still exists.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Shuuda

[Deity]

I do believe in God, in the bible, the only source available to us humans of his existence. If you have read the bible, and if you are smart and see what needs to be seen in there, then you should believe as well. But if you are blind, then you wont be able to believe even when the proof is there.

[Cynthia]

Funny, I could have sworn I said you can disagree without saying someone's entire religion is wrong...

Secondly, the "false hope," and whatnot, it's not your problem. So people want to think something nice happens when they die and that evil people get what's coming. Is that really worth tearing down just to be right? Not ALL religious people aren't so extreme to where they use religion to justify everything.

Also I meant who cares about what is right on the issue, not right about ANYTHING.

Atheism is becoming just as big of a bully as Christianity. You going around telling Christians they are wrong and that their faith is a lie, and that you're right is just as bad as them doing the same. You think that because someone did something and you have the opportunity to retaliate that means you should?

The tables have turned, now Atheism is just as big of a bully. Atheists telling Christians they are wrong is what makes them retaliate with holy wars. Now I'm not saying it's Atheists faults, but it takes two to tango.

Yes religion in the past bullied people, but that doesn't make it right to turn around and do it back, as all it does in continue the cycle. We have laws now to prevent religion from killing people in the name of God, and to keep them in check. The same applies for gay marriage, when a compromise is met, there will be a law put in place to prevent Christians from changing things because "God" told them to.

We don't live in the burning times anymore, people can't kill you for not being Christian. And people can not deny you rights for it either. Gay marriage is a special case because it's a question of weather Marriage is under God or a legal thing, which makes sense, because there are two aspects to being married. Christians just don't want the law to compromise their religion, which ALSO MAKES SENSE. Because they believe gay marriage is against their religion, which the constitution states they have the freedom of religion, and if the law is defying their religion that's controversial to them. At the same time though, if they don't allow it, it contradicts equal rights. It's a tricky issue, and thus it shouldn't just be thrown to one side and then tell Christians to live with it.

Atheism going around telling people to stop believing in God and trying to convert people to Atheism is just as bad as Christians converting people. I've seen Atheists flat out attack Christians ENTIRE RELIGION over the issue of gay marriage. Their entire religion isn't what's in question though, it's only if Gay marriage is against the word of God.

You can't say you were oppressed for so long and now you have your chance to strike back to justify being a hypocrite. You say Christians are bullies, and they try to tell people they are right, yet you turn around and do the same thing to them, and expect them to stop? You get what you give. You give them crap, they give it back. I'm not saying doing nothing will stop it, but attacking them is DEFINITELY going to get a retaliation.

I am in no way Christian, but I don't support Atheism going around and whining about how Christianity bullied them so they should do it back. So many people have been oppressed, and if all of them attacked back the world would be chaos.

Let people believe what they want, that's why we HAVE the freedom of religion to let people believe what they want. You tactics of bullying and then playing the victim of prior bullying is pathetic, and a waste of your time. I doubt you're going to convince the entire Christian faith that you're right with those tactics. You may convince a few that aren't as devout, but you're not going to get them all.

It's a waste of YOUR time to try and tell them they are wrong, because obviously your tactics aren't going to work, and you're doing the same thing they are.

You're basically using the, "he hit me, so I'm going to hit him back," tactic which is what causes only more fighting.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Cynthia

[Shuuda]

I do believe in God, in the bible, the only source available to us humans of his existence. If you have read the bible, and if you are smart and see what needs to be seen in there, then you should believe as well. But if you are blind, then you wont be able to believe even when the proof is there.

You try to string fancy mystical phases together; but all it equates to is dribble. You claim that God is some all powerful being, but he is constantly used as a tool by people of "faith". Who are you to claim to know what god is or wants?

I wonder: if god did exist, would he be displeased by religion; the people who used (and still do) his/her/it's name to justify the very things they consider "evil".

- Claiming that people are equal, or racism is wrong, but it is okay to hate homosexuals because god does not like them, and it is okay to portray god as a man to oppress women.

- You are not allowed to create "idols" of God, but the bible in itself is a written portrait of God.

- Murder and torture is all bad, but killing so called "witches" and inquisitions are okay in Gods name.

People who waste their time in church, or knocking on people's door, when they could have used that time to better themselves, actually help people, or atleast enjoy life. The standards to get into heaven are not Gods, but yours; you just say that's what God wants to give it more impact, and so the masses will conform to it. Can a good deed be called a good deed if the doer is doing it because the bible says they should?

This is not about whether God exists or not; it is about whether religion is for the best, which I believe it is not. Sure, religion helps people, but religion is not needed in order for people to help each other, that is what empathy is for. Religion hurts people as well, and they have bad justifications for it.

So spare me your mumbo jumbo, I want some real proof that you know the mind of "God". Only then will I accept your right to say what God is or wants as fact.

Secondly, the "false hope," and whatnot, it's not your problem.

I guess it is not too different from when someone criticises a piece of artwork; sure it is not my problem if their art is bad, but that should not stop me from speaking out.

Yes religion in the past bullied people, but that doesn't make it right to turn around and do it back, as all it does in continue the cycle.

I'm not bullying anyone back, I am not torturing or killing anyone who opposes me. I am merely trying to win an argument with words.

You say Christians are bullies, and they try to tell people they are right, yet you turn around and do the same thing to them, and expect them to stop? You get what you give.

See above. I am not forcing anything on anyone, I am merely arguing. If (hypothetically) I were to come up with an argument so good that it won the debate, would that be forcing or bullying people?

Edited December 17, 2008 by Shuuda

[Deity]

I dont even have to answer any of that. You yourself know all that you say is wrong.

Why do we hate homosexuals? Because its wrong, and you know it damn too well.

And those people that serve God going door to door, they are not wasting their time, they are giving it as service to God, you moron, you just dont know anything about religion, you only have your own viewpoints, which are all messed up anyway.

There is only one true religion, and from what I can see, its the one I am currently serving. We take care to do what Jesus instructed us to do. Dont believe me, read the freaking bible.

[Shuuda]

I dont even have to answer any of that. You yourself know all that you say is wrong.

Will not, or cannot?

Why do we hate homosexuals? Because its wrong, and you know it damn too well.

So people can be born morally wrong and doomed to go to hell? Homosexuality is not a choice, why must they be hated for it?

Do you want to know what happens when gays marry! HERE!

And those people that serve God going door to door, they are not wasting their time, they are giving it as service to God, you moron, you just dont know anything about religion, you only have your own viewpoints, which are all messed up anyway.

So, going around, bugging people who are just living their life, trying to convert them using an inefficient method is serving God? That makes so much sense. Charity work is better, it actually helps people who need it, without annoying anyone.

There is only one true religion, and from what I can see, its the one I am currently serving. We take care to do what Jesus instructed us to do. Dont believe me, read the freaking bible.

Well, that is because you have been raised to think that. And do not use the same argument back at me; my parents are protestant (last time I checked) but I thank them very much for not influencing me that much.

[Deity]

I am not gonna go further in this debate, not because I cant answer, I can, but to what end? You people are so blind, are so silly sometimes, that anything I say will only cause more debate.

It's not even worth spending my time debating something that I know already about. It's your own choice if you dont want to believe. It is written well in the bible, people. When the end of the system of things of satan comes, you wont have any excuses to make. You chose to follow that empty and wide path that most of humanity takes, so be it.

You wont be able to blame God for your fuckups, because you know you sin daily. And those that hate him, or did not believe, will only go to their ruin.

So yeah, I care about you folks, for you all are brothers and sisters, despite being so far away. I wish you all the best of luck.

[Shuuda]

You people are so blind, are so silly sometimes, that anything I say will only cause more debate.

And I would say the same about you. Funny no?

It's not even worth spending my time debating something that I know already about. It's your own choice if you dont want to believe. It is written well in the bible, people. When the end of the system of things of satan comes, you wont have any excuses to make. You chose to follow that empty and wide path that most of humanity takes, so be it.

Such contempt and pride will surely land you in hell with the rest of us. Not that hell exists. Or who knows, maybe we will not be punished, God loves us after all, and hopefully accepts the consequences of the free will we were given.

You wont be able to blame God for your fuckups, because you know you sin daily. And those that hate him, or did not believe, will only go to their ruin.

I am not blaming God here. Remember you are a human to, you sin just as much as the rest of us do. I vow to stop hating God: because if I did hate him, that would make me no better than all the people who claim to know him.

Now, assuming you have nothing of worth to say, I too am done; I do not wish to get any warn.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Shuuda

[Cynthia]

You're behaving rather rudely Shuuda, thus making you a bully. You don't need to physically abuse someone to be a bully.

All I'm going to say to Quet is that he is no more right than Shuuda, and a religion that condomns people to Hell for an eternity of suffering for LOVE is certainly not one I want to be a part of.

[Deity]

You're behaving rather rudely Shuuda, thus making you a bully. You don't need to physically abuse someone to be a bully.

All I'm going to say to Quet is that he is no more right than Shuuda, and a religion that condomns people to Hell for an eternity of suffering for LOVE is certainly not one I want to be a part of.

What religion condems people to hell?

There is no hell, only the lake of fire, which will come to be when God passes down judgment to everyone. If you dont appear in the book of life, your ass will be thrown in there, where you will simply cease to exist.

And Shuuda is not a bully, not against me he isnt. His beliefs are morally wrong, and he knows that. So how can he be bullying me when in return I am bullying him in correctness?

[Cynthia]

What religion condems people to hell?

There is no hell, only the lake of fire, which will come to be when God passes down judgment to everyone. If you dont appear in the book of life, your ass will be thrown in there, where you will simply cease to exist.

And Shuuda is not a bully, not against me he isnt. His beliefs are morally wrong, and he knows that. So how can he be bullying me when in return I am bullying him in correctness?

So throwing people into a lake of fire isn't punishing them...?

Secondly, I have yet to see you prove you're "correct," about anything. All you've said is that you're correct and that you don't want to argue. Therefore you haven't justified anything. On top of that, you returning the favor to him is just retaliation a natural response. It's EXACTLY what I was talking about. He says your religion is wrong, so you retaliate.

[Deity]

So throwing people into a lake of fire isn't punishing them...?

Secondly, I have yet to see you prove you're "correct," about anything. All you've said is that you're correct and that you don't want to argue. Therefore you haven't justified anything. On top of that, you returning the favor to him is just retaliation a natural response. It's EXACTLY what I was talking about. He says your religion is wrong, so you retaliate.

Lets be honest. Debates only cause more debates and flame wars. I dont want that.

If I say my religion is correct, it is. You want me to say it isnt? Then my beliefs would be all for naught!

That being said, how is man on man, girl on girl relationships not immoral and wrong? Of course its wrong, and you all know it, you just think your views are correct when they arent.

The true religion is one that does what Jesus instructed them to do. And one of those commandments was to go city to city, door to door and talk to ignorant fools about the good news. But, it is well known that not many will hear the news, still, it keeps being our mission to do so, until everyone living in earth hears about the good news, that way, humans will never use the excuse of saying that they never knew these good news. There wont be no excuses for lame people that do not believe, and thus they will be simply erased from this earth. When everyone here on earth knows about the news, and whenever everyone thinks of peace, sudden destruction will come.

This earth will not end, its evil that is going to end, the system of things that Satan created.

in 1914, he was tossed down to earth, and since then, things have gotten worse here on earth for us humans. WE suffer day by day, many die as the days go on, there are many illnesses, wars, etc, going on. And all through it, the mission goes on, an not many wish to hear the good news.

So, believe me when I say the last days of Satan's realms are almost over. The prophecies in the bible are happening as we speak...you guys aint blind, surely, you see it happening day by day out there.

[lolDeath]

Your religion being right is your opinion, it can not be fact because it can not be proven. Just like when I say it is wrong it is my opinion.

I don't really want to jump into a debate of opinion again, but I'll just say that this planet IS one day going to die. The sun is a star, stars do not last.

[Thingy Person]

Lets be honest. Debates only cause more debates and flame wars. I dont want that.

And this is why you cling to your bible, say your stuff, tell us our way of thinking is wrong and we know it and then refuse to listen to others because you don't want to debate. When someone tries to defend him/herself, you scoff at them and say they're blind and you're too enlightened for this bullshit.

Of course, what I just said is just the plain truth and entirely normal for you, but I'm too baffled to reply correctly.

[Deity]

Well it is wrong, you fool.

Go steal something from your neighbor, isn't that wrong? Think something about your friend's gf, something immoral, isn't that wrong?

Nay...I wont say no more, because you dont want me to go berserk on the world. There is still much for you people to learn, too much in fact, since you dont know that the bible is actually weapon and shield.

It would be fun if I could get a forum where I could teach about God. That way, I might open up a few of your eyes, people. I mean, I dont wish to see you all lost, when by opening your eyes, I could perhaps save one of you and see you in the new system of things here on earth when all evil is banished from the face of the earth.

Wouldn't it be great if we manage to survive the apocalypse and be granted eternal life?

I take my chances with the good side...even in movies, good guys always win. So its not too hard to see which side is the correct. You stay with the world and its beliefs, you stay on the losing side. What have you to lose if you follow God instead? Not a darn thing tbh.

[Thingy Person]

When the apocalypse is at our doorstep, I will gladly see the light and convert myself to your beliefs.

The problem is that you presume your beliefs to be a proven fact, and you don't go out of your way to convince us who don't feel the same way. Get used to it; we weren't raised the same way as you, and we carry none of your enthusiasm. Doesn't that make you doubt? Just a little bit?

As I said, if everything what you're saying now turns out to be true, I'll accept the truth. But I won't take back what I said, because apart from insults and general chauvenism, you haven't given your system any credibility.

And in a forum where you could teach about god, everyone is likely already Christian.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Thingy Person

[Deity]

When the apocalypse is at our doorstep, I will gladly see the light and convert myself to your beliefs.

The problem is that you presume your beliefs to be a proven fact, and you don't go out of your way to convince us who don't feel the same way. Get used to it; we weren't raised the same way as you, and we carry none of your enthusiasm. Doesn't that make you doubt? Just a little bit?

As I said, if everything what you're saying now turns out to be true, I'll accept the truth. But I won't take back what I said, because apart from insults and general chauvenism, you haven't given your system any credibility.

And in a forum where you could teach about god, everyone is likely already Christian.

Yeah, that's what most people would do, huh? Repent when the end has come to you.

God does not take last minute change of hearts, beliefs, etc.

[Thingy Person]

Yeah, that's what most people would do, huh? Repent when the end has come to you.

How the hell do you know that?! How many raptures have their been before? Save for the velocirapture

God does not take last minute change of hearts, beliefs, etc.

Again, how the hell do you know this? From some book a couple of over-aged men wrote?

I opt that it is because it may as well be.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Thingy Person

[Lord Glenn]

Personal religious beliefs are just that: personal. Let's not get involved in a holy war of personal beliefs, ok guys? Let's try to be civil and objective, especially due to the nature of the topic at hand.

(Also, Quetzalcoatl, I would like to point out the contradictory fact that I seem to recall at least two different people in the New Testament saying what boils down to "Repent because the Apocalypse is coming soon!" in various books (since the different authors say different (and sometimes contradictory) things between texts). To me, this seems to say that as long as you're repenting, you're going to get saved, especially given the world view that the Apocalypse was an impending event and that Jesus' second coming was going to occur very soon in order to save everybody from the wrath.)