Saint Rubenio Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) Speaking of Berwick, since I got the itch to play it again, I've been thinking... I mentioned yesterday I gotta do a run where I go for all the death rewards. This got me thinking, and I've realized... I can go one step further. @Spara did minimum recruitment already. But how about... Minimum ranks This seemed silly at first, until I realized, this means: I cannot do any civilian requests. Just, none. Every single item and reward tied to a civilian request has to go. Except like, the lumber from chapter 1 lol I cannot do any sidequests. Any map that can be skipped, I must skip. This means I miss every character that's tied to an optional sidequest, of course. Multiple characters must die in order to negate other characters' happiness points. Multiple characters must also die because their happiness requirement is simply to be recruited. I have to go out of my way to avoid some easy tactics points from main maps. The clear points ensure a clean 0/0/0/0 is impossible, sadly. I can only get a max of 5 bounties and 5 Erzheimer rewards. Though at least I can get some of them here, Jesus. EDIT: Oh wait, I have no idea what happens with Erzie if you don't complete his request in chapter 3. Welp, guess I'll find out! I can only forge a max of 9 items from each blacksmith. That's fair enough. I CAN ONLY GET THREE PIECES OF FURNITURE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ...Holy shit. You know, this could actually be an interesting little thing to do while I wait for Octopath. It'd result in a shorter run, perfect to hold me over in the remaining days. Might open a little thread when I make some progress, even, because this sounds like it could have me doing some interesting shenanigans. (In spoilers for Joevar's sake) Spoiler My first thought was "oh shit Owen can't be gotten", but... no, actually. Chapter 3-main requires two bishops survive for a tactics point. If only one survives, you only get the unavoidable point for clearing. This means I can get Sakhalin and Orbell killed and let Grimm alone through so he can make Owen available. Woo! Of course, permanently recruiting Owen is... a different matter altogether. I did, however, think Esteban would be available... But saving him is a civilian request, so nope. No luck there. F for Estie! EDIT 2: Never mind, Serenes says that's not counter toward the fame rank. Estie is saved! I can avoid killing a few people by just not watching their ending event, but that feels kinda cheap. And I need bodies for the Konnigswolffe anyway! The real reason I need to do this run is so I can finally discover how to spell that name Not that this is a foolproof "exploit." Enid can avoid her point of happiness this way... but Derrick's depends on her survival alone, according to Serenes. So her fate is sealed. Same for Elbert and/or Christine, since Ward's happiness is tied to their status. Edited February 13, 2023 by Saint Rubenio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidereal Wraith Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 2 hours ago, Armagon said: Wraith while looking at the SS tier: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Yeah i'm just not gonna go to uni today. I'll still work on assignments but like i need a day off man. Missing one day should be fine anyways, i'll just ask the professor to send me this week's materials (most of which gets uploaded anyways). 57 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said: Personally, I'd at least put the effort of playing every route at least once. Even if it means going through White Clouds four times. I did that but made the mistake of doing it back-to-back. 23 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said: Even when it comes to story, what's the point of doing both Verdant Wind and Silver Snow? They're pretty much just copypastes of each other! I find it funny that i discovered Crimson Flower on accident because it's like the only truly unique route in the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 8 minutes ago, Armagon said: I did that but made the mistake of doing it back-to-back. Yeah, that would be best to avoid doing as well. Which is my plan too with my planned multiple runs of the SRW VTX trilogy, in order to fill up the data libraries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joevar Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 37 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said: Not really. Any time you need to use a character for an objective or a sidequest, the game says it in a cutscene. There is very little guide-baity stuff in this game. The only exception that comes to mind is a single character's promotion event, which requires they be fielded in a specific map, without warning. And to be fair, that character is very well suited for that map, so you might end up deploying them yourself anyway. ...Speaking of that, want me to tell you? i think yes. just tell me name and chapter where its not clear theres sidequest to it, but actually has overarching story, case in point: Faye because i was very sure Faye dont have warning, or i just dont get it. purely by chance really in my playthru. while the other sidequests basically just bring whoever talk in the quest or reese, or whoever can pick item also derrick going away in chapter 4?? 21 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said: Fates did it better, pretty much. Then again, Fates was more like three different games essentially, rather than a single game with multiple routes. wasted opportunity. or maybe they actually want it to be like pokemon.. or is that comparison more appropriate for 3 house 😕 regardless of quality, fates did make its "routes" more distinct than 3 house 14 minutes ago, Armagon said: i'll just ask the professor to send me this week's materials (most of which gets uploaded anyways). your professor willing to do what you asked to them?! where is that.. hogwarts? 15 minutes ago, Armagon said: Crimson Flower on accident because it's like the only truly unique route in the game. but then they make it the shortest, and left some plot holes hanging, or just introduce something different that somehow not clearly explained why its different Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, joevar said: your professor willing to do what you asked to them? That's....standard tho? You miss a day, email the professor for the materials so you don't fall behind. Hell most of the stuff discussed in class gets uploaded to Canvas/Webcourses anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Imagine needing to e-mail the professor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rubenio Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, joevar said: i think yes. just tell me name and chapter where its not clear theres sidequest to it, but actually has overarching story Czene, chapter 2-2. The one with the horses in the forest, you'll know when you see it. Deploy her there. 5 minutes ago, joevar said: case in point: Faye because i was very sure Faye dont have warning, or i just dont get it. purely by chance really in my playthru. while the other sidequests basically just bring whoever talk in the quest or reese, or whoever can pick item Actually, if you don't deploy Faye, she appears on the map and the event happens anyway. You can only miss it by getting her killed/captured, or by killing the super boss, after she's deployed. 5 minutes ago, joevar said: also derrick going away in chapter 4?? He cannot go to main missions. He'll be back at the guild afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 4 minutes ago, joevar said: wasted opportunity. or maybe they actually want it to be like pokemon.. or is that comparison more appropriate for 3 house 😕 regardless of quality, fates did make its "routes" more distinct than 3 house I remember the comparison memes about it. As it was, it was far from the Pokémon formula in the end. White Clouds would be closer to copying Pokémon in comparison, except you weren't paying for it more than once. 4 minutes ago, joevar said: but then they make it the shortest, and left some plot holes hanging, or just introduce something different that somehow not clearly explained why its different It wasn't even conceived first, from what I remember. It was probably the last route made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joevar Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 15 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said: It wasn't even conceived first, from what I remember. It was probably the last route made. Imagine last minute scenario actually had more interesting / different idea than other routes. (Siding with anatagonist for example) But yea, its like they run out of budget/time in the end. And ends up with how it is in the final product -------- 20 minutes ago, Armagon said: That's....standard tho? You miss a day, email the professor for the materials so you don't fall behind. Hell most of the stuff discussed in class gets uploaded to Canvas/Webcourses anyways. The second point yes. The first point... not if you're in backwater country Uni.. 😞 Altho im not implying all "professor" are that bad. --------- 20 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said: Czene, chapter 2-2. The one with the horses in the forest, you'll know when you see it. Deploy her there. Actually, if you don't deploy Faye, she appears on the map and the event happens anyway. You can only miss it by getting her killed/captured, or by killing the super boss, after she's deployed. He cannot go to main missions. He'll be back at the guild afterwards. Anytging else? Again i dont expect anything, and somehow i just.. deploy Czenne there before you told me. Thinking "hey this one is one hell of annoying map with forest, thief can move faster, might as well" .. uhh did i just praise the gameplay design ---- oh faye will still appear. Alright ---- why? Then whats so good about him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rubenio Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, joevar said: Anytging else? Again i dont expect anything, and somehow i just.. deploy Czenne there before you told me. Thinking "hey this one is one hell of annoying map with forest, thief can move faster, might as well" .. uhh did i just praise the gameplay design Yes you did, Joevar. Yes you did. I feel the designers expected most people to go for that - I just think a hint would've been nice for the rest of us weirdos. 2 minutes ago, joevar said: why? Then whats so good about him Absolutely nothing. That's the joke. In a cast full of people with their own strengths and niches, Derrick is a complete joke of a unit. There are maps where he can't even move from the starting position! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Played more Grand Phantasm. It isn't quite as driving me towards no-lifeing as the Azoth of Destiny. Which is not to call it bad by any means. I do have some liking for the big dungeons, I do enjoy dungeon-crawling. The time limit isn't bothersome. Although, the lack of save points could be annoying when/if I have to trek back from the workshop to the portal to the boss location avoiding visible grunts along the way b/c said hypothetical boss keeps GO'ing me. Combat isn't exactly the strategic for a turn-based JRPG, yet it is feeling more like a subtle improvement over AI2. The Full Burst mode is essential to dealing the big damage to bosses, yet I don't mind it, it isn't bothersomely difficult to build up and automatically gives you a full SP gauge to unload. Nell has joined as the third hero (and she too can use Mana-Blades, albeit different ones from Edge), so now I have the full team. Nell isn't likely going to wow me over personality-wise, and I don't think Iris will either. Edge... I have a weakness for sweet boys.😄 Yeah I see he isn't exactly the most sensitive guy some of the time, yet a few of his portraits suggest a tender center, and sooner or later the game should get to his and Iris's backstory together. More thoughts... When it comes to "typical JRPG-ness", Iris 2 might actually be "worse" if you go memetic and consider the Iris trilogy an aberration upon sacred Atelier. "JRPG" is a term describing a genre and adjacent genres encompassing some diversity. Yet different franchises and their associated stylings of JRPG rise above others. Tales, Dragon Quest, Old Final Fantasy, the 16-bit era (and its modern imitations); these are arguably what first appears in the minds of a "majority" of gamers when they think of the term "JRPG". (Not everyone, Modern Persona, Xenoblade, Fire Emblem (J-SRPG?) mobile gatcha stuff, are all major contenders too. Mind you none of these existed (or was massively popular in FE's case) in 2006.) Let us distill the narrative/thematic/gameplay contents of those common first-thought JRPGs, and call this the "JRPG orthodoxy". When you carefully examine Atelier Iris 2, it belongs to the JRPG orthodoxy more than Atelier Iris 3 does. The dungeon-crawler is certainly a form of JRPG. Yet it ranks far lower in the popular hierarchy, so it is less "typical". Atelier has always had a degree of JRPG, the "issue" of Iris is being "typical" and not the usual Atelier heterodoxy. The above bullet should not be taken to mean that Iris 3 is a return to a measure of typical Atelier form. (Keep in mind, I've only acquired 2/8 of the McGuffin orbs, the plot is still very early.) Nell looks to be decidedly the least important of the heroic trio. Iris, the most. Edge might end up being as important in a hero-heroine loving duo, or just a half-step behind Iris. Yet Edge, unlike Felt, is not an alchemist whatsoever. (Lita wasn't an alchemist, yet being the product of alchemy still made her related to the soul of Atelier.) As for Iris, beyond gameplay synthesis, I don't see why she necessarily had to be an alchemist. If you ignored/deleted gameplay crafting for a moment, you could relabel Iris as a priestess-summoner and I think it'd work 100% fine. This is a problem for an Atelier! It would be fairer to say that Grand Phantasm exchanged the distinctly Atelier heterodoxy for a different JRPG heterodoxy. The change to the dungeon-crawler subgenre might also be why I'm not being so intensely drawn into Iris 3. Dungeon-crawlers aren't known for their stories. Iris 2 by contrast by embracing the JRPG orthodoxy, constantly threw me a bone narratively that was tugging me forward. (I was also one less Iris into the series at the time, the slowdown on AI3 could also be a measure of fatigue from blitzing AI2.) However, dungeon-crawlers usually have only a single hub town, which might fit Atelier more than a journey spanning continents. I can't say this with absolute certainty, given my lack of Trad At experience, yet some of the older titles being "Alchemist of X Location" suggest this. There is the possibility, given all my requests come from the inhabitants of a single town + parallel Alterworlds (How do people live in them when there is a time limit before you're forced out? Did I miss something?), that the NPC community will be decently characterized. I've already had two requests from the masochist fairy. @Armagon Just curious, has it ever been the case in any of the Ateliers that you've played that alchemists are a rare/dying/maligned profession? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Japanese event support company Icrea has announced that they will be collaborating with Vanillaware to celebrate the company’s 20th anniversary. Celebrations will take place in Tokyo in March, with Osaka in April. The event venue will include items featuring a new illustration by Vanillaware’s Yukiko Hirai, along with pre-orders for original merchandise based on various, previously released games. Items sold at the venue will be sold online at a later date. There will also be an art gallery and photo spots, all featuring art unique to Vanillaware. The official Twitter account for the event, featuring news updates for it, can be found here. The event will be made possible through the cooperation of Atlus, Arithmetic, Basiscape, Marvelous, and Nippon Ichi Software, all of which were involved in titles developed by Vanillaware. It will be the first time in the company’s 20-year history where more than 10 games developed by the company will be gathered together. Possible game announcements?🤔 (Hooded girl on the right is from Grand Knights History. IDK the toddler.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 16 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: I can't say this with absolute certainty, given my lack of Trad At experience, yet some of the older titles being "Alchemist of X Location" suggest this. Yeah pretty much. If there are more towns, it's a result of being expanded. Arland was originally just the city of Arland (which was a Kingdom in Rorona) and it's surroundings. Then you get to Totori who's from the port town of Alanya (which is a part of the now Republic of Arland). Meruru introduces the Kingdom of Alrs, which is in the process of merging with Arland. Lulua hails from the town of....actually i forget. But point being Arland as a whole is expanded across that series (and Totori has you sailing across the ocean to another small village). Dusk has several towns but in Ayesha, there isn't really a hub town. Mysterious begins in Kirchen Bell and it's surroundings. Firis is from Etorna but her game is all about exploration so there's several towns. Lydie & Suelle is much more scaled down, taking place in the capital of the Kingdom of Adalet and it's surroundings (plus the paintings). Then Sophie 2 has the dream world town. Ryza has had two hub towns: her home island of Riesenburg and the capital in the second name that i forget the name of. 24 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Just curious, has it ever been the case in any of the Ateliers that you've played that alchemists are a rare/dying/maligned profession? Hmm. Dusk is one example. Although in that game, it's more accurate to say the traditional method of alchemy is dying. The whole "stir in the cauldron" schtick. Ayesha, Escha and the Shallies all do this. Logy on the other hand uses the "modern" alchemy taught in Central City (which we never actually visit) and it's suggested that cauldron alchemy is rarely practiced, because he was surprised when Escha asked if her cauldron came in yet. In Secret, alchemy is rare but that's because it's suggested that alchemy is a talent you have to be born with, although i'm not sure if this was just wording. To date, the only alchemists in Secret are Ryza herself and her mentor Empel (though a third alchemist was mentioned). That's about it. I can't think of any instance where alchemy is maligned because it's Atelier and nothing bad is allowed to happen. Closest we got was Meruru's father being so opposed to it but that's only because his sister died in an alchemy accident and doesn't want the same to potentially happen to Meruru. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armagon Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Interdimensional Observer said: Momohime is the only guy in this poster. 2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: IDK the toddler.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumatanchi I figured it was from the life-sim game. Only this time she was actually drawn in the Vanillaware artstyle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 1 hour ago, joevar said: also derrick going away in chapter 4?? You're on chapter 4? There is a free Eagle Brace to be gotten if you visit the library before the main mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 12 minutes ago, Armagon said: Momohime is the only guy in this poster. True!😆 You know I wish they one of these with Vanillaware's males. Though I get that's not very likely to happen. It'd probably be Oswald for Odin Sphere, even if Pooka Cornelius would make for a more interesting visual contrast (though why not include both b/c males are less prominent than females in Vanillaware's work?). 14 minutes ago, Armagon said: Hmm. Dusk is one example. Although in that game, it's more accurate to say the traditional method of alchemy is dying. The whole "stir in the cauldron" schtick. Ayesha, Escha and the Shallies all do this. Logy on the other hand uses the "modern" alchemy taught in Central City (which we never actually visit) and it's suggested that cauldron alchemy is rarely practiced, because he was surprised when Escha asked if her cauldron came in yet. In Secret, alchemy is rare but that's because it's suggested that alchemy is a talent you have to be born with, although i'm not sure if this was just wording. To date, the only alchemists in Secret are Ryza herself and her mentor Empel (though a third alchemist was mentioned). That's about it. I can't think of any instance where alchemy is maligned because it's Atelier and nothing bad is allowed to happen. Closest we got was Meruru's father being so opposed to it but that's only because his sister died in an alchemy accident and doesn't want the same to potentially happen to Meruru. Thanks. While Iris 1 didn't say much on the general state of alchemy, both Irises 2 and 3 establish worlds whose details regarding alchemy led me to make this inquiry. 15 minutes ago, Armagon said: Yeah pretty much. If there are more towns, it's a result of being expanded. Arland was originally just the city of Arland (which was a Kingdom in Rorona) and it's surroundings. Then you get to Totori who's from the port town of Alanya (which is a part of the now Republic of Arland). Meruru introduces the Kingdom of Alrs, which is in the process of merging with Arland. Lulua hails from the town of....actually i forget. But point being Arland as a whole is expanded across that series (and Totori has you sailing across the ocean to another small village). Dusk has several towns but in Ayesha, there isn't really a hub town. Mysterious begins in Kirchen Bell and it's surroundings. Firis is from Etorna but her game is all about exploration so there's several towns. Lydie & Suelle is much more scaled down, taking place in the capital of the Kingdom of Adalet and it's surroundings (plus the paintings). Then Sophie 2 has the dream world town. Ryza has had two hub towns: her home island of Riesenburg and the capital in the second name that i forget the name of. Thank you again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 All the alchemist talk reminds me how I finally got Alma in Another Eden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spara Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 3 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: Speaking of Berwick, since I got the itch to play it again, I've been thinking... I mentioned yesterday I gotta do a run where I go for all the death rewards. This got me thinking, and I've realized... I can go one step further. @Spara did minimum recruitment already. But how about... Minimum ranks This seemed silly at first, until I realized, this means: I cannot do any civilian requests. Just, none. Every single item and reward tied to a civilian request has to go. Except like, the lumber from chapter 1 lol I cannot do any sidequests. Any map that can be skipped, I must skip. This means I miss every character that's tied to an optional sidequest, of course. Multiple characters must die in order to negate other characters' happiness points. Multiple characters must also die because their happiness requirement is simply to be recruited. I have to go out of my way to avoid some easy tactics points from main maps. The clear points ensure a clean 0/0/0/0 is impossible, sadly. I can only get a max of 5 bounties and 5 Erzheimer rewards. Though at least I can get some of them here, Jesus. EDIT: Oh wait, I have no idea what happens with Erzie if you don't complete his request in chapter 3. Welp, guess I'll find out! I can only forge a max of 9 items from each blacksmith. That's fair enough. I CAN ONLY GET THREE PIECES OF FURNITURE AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA ...Holy shit. You know, this could actually be an interesting little thing to do while I wait for Octopath. It'd result in a shorter run, perfect to hold me over in the remaining days. Might open a little thread when I make some progress, even, because this sounds like it could have me doing some interesting shenanigans. (In spoilers for Joevar's sake) Oh. This is gonna be something else. Excited to see the absolute horror of Königswolf Derrick in a normal run (though I did see someone do it with a randomizer run that gave Derrick Deathmatch, that was hilarious) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Codename Shrimp Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) The full power of Tea Time I am just grinding supports post game atm before i start maddening kek Edited February 13, 2023 by Shrimpy -Limited Edition- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rubenio Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Spara said: Oh. This is gonna be something else. Excited to see the absolute horror of Königswolf Derrick in a normal run (though I did see someone do it with a randomizer run that gave Derrick Deathmatch, that was hilarious) I don't expect I will do a full-blown LP of this, screenshot or video, as watching me fumble through the more normal parts with my horrible tactics would distract from the point of the run, but I will probably open a log thread detailing my progress and any intricacies as I go. There should be some meaty posts regardless, I can already think of a few places where I'm going to have to employ some finesse in my quest to become the worst tactician ever made. Lemme tell you, my mind was going like this during dinner as I thought of all the silliness ahead of me: I've even begun to map out the deaths. I could of course get 16 people killed on the final enemy to get rid of their happiness, but if I want to get the death rewards at a reasonable time I have to be more proactive in my murder spree. Edited February 13, 2023 by Saint Rubenio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acacia Sgt Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 You know, I have decided. One of my next writing projects will be turning the one-shot into a proper fanfic. Though it'd have to go through a rewrite. The one-shot was structured the way it is because it was meant to be written as a, well, one-shot. But turning it into a proper story, that has to change. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Rubenio Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 Oh, God. Maps 1-1 and 1-2 are skippable. I have no Sylvis and no Arthur. ...Ooooohhh, this is going to be interesting... Anyway, I will give Ochette this: Her theme is rad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sooks Posted February 13, 2023 Share Posted February 13, 2023 13 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: Must not have seen him. Curious too, man's an absolute unit. Hard to miss. They were too busy looking at Castti. It’s understandable. 13 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: .Osvald will send Partitio to Belize before he can send him to jail again Osvald when someone says being a scholar puts him in danger of physical damage 13 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: C'mooon dew it. Murica jokes are always fun. Don't make me drop a Palpatine on ya. Even you don’t hate Ochette that much. 13 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said: Yeah, people are too busy uploading the boss theme for the 4th time. It's cool people, but there's more! Oh well, at least there’s a no commentary run of Castti’s chapter one on YouTube I can just skip to the end for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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