Serenes Forest's Teehee Thread

[Interdimensional Observer]

1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I mean, this is basically Suikoden 6. Or 7?

I watched Tierkreis from start to end. It's sooooo not Suikoden VI.😛 Separate world with no recurring characters, no Runes True or otherwise ("Marks of the Stars" instead for hero magic and Chronicles for macguffins), no Godly Tactician, no highly-scripted SRPG battles, and the cast is palpably more... anime in a way that's not how the other games quite are, but I can't think of a single word for it.

While Tierkreis ultimately went with a multiverse approach to explain its crew, I do like the scrapped original plan for the story. That being- the story starts in media res, all the 108 Stars of Destiny confront the big bad, and lose. The few survivors receive the power of resurrection and presumably that would've been how you most of the 108 back. -I wish there was an RPG that actually used this idea.😆

Also, Tierkreis had heavy quantities of voice acting for a DS game. Possiblybecausetheywerelimitedonspacethevoicestalkratherfastwhichgotevenfunnierwhensettingthevideotodoublespeed.😝

1 hour ago, Saint Rubenio said:

The only thing Eiyuden lacked was the name, because I'm pretty sure all the major folks behind Suikoden were in this project. Conversely, Konami basically only has the brand name left, which is why they're only doing a remake of the thing they legally own.

Anyway, yeah, it does seem like they might've been playing things a tad safe, just do "Suikoden again" for the new generation.

Certainly sounds like were being safe. Again, hopefully this already-announced sequel feels freer to become something of its own, and refine what people now see as aged kinks in the formula. Spiritual successors and Kickstarters sure have had a mixed record, Armed Fantasia and Penny Blood are next in the firing line.

Curious how Konami's 1&2 rerelease will do then. If they skimp on the QoL updates, and quite possibly a new translation, then I can see some reviewers not so nostalgic giving the old games tepid scores.

Edited April 21 by Interdimensional Observer

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I watched Tierkreis from start to end. It's sooooo not Suikoden VI.😛 Separate world with no recurring characters, no Runes True or otherwise ("Marks of the Stars" instead for hero magic and Chronicles for macguffins), no Godly Tactician, no highly-scripted SRPG battles, and the cast is palpably more... anime in a way that's not how the other games quite are, but I can't think of a single word for it.

Yeah, Tierkreis is something of a Spin-Off. Or a Gaiden, if you will. Though with its multiverse setting, you can think it is a literal Gaiden to the "main" Suikoden world. Who knows, maybe any of the I-V teams were also fighting against the final boss during the whole "multiverse fight" bit.

Speaking of, I think recalling IV had something of a pseudo-prequel. And the series also had like two Tactics-esque games too? Though I suppose those don't count either. They don't even have the full 108 Stars bit, if I recall.

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

While Tierkreis ultimately went with a multiverse approach to explain its crew, I do like the scrapped original plan for the story. That being- the story starts in media res, all the 108 Stars of Destiny confront the big bad, and lose. The few survivors receive the power of resurrection and presumably that would've been how you most of the 108 back. -I wish there was an RPG that actually used this idea.😆

Sounds like an interesting idea. Wonder if FE could use it. I'll admit, much as I dislike the Fell Xenologue, the whole "bring back everyone as Corrupted" idea could've worked nicely for something like that.

2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Curious how Konami's 1&2 rerelease will do then. If they skimp on the QoL updates, and quite possibly a new translation, then I can see some reviewers not so nostalgic giving the old games tepid scores.

I'd be shocked if they don't do at least the latter. Or at least just polishing it. Since if I recall, Suikoden II had a... less than stellar translation work done to it.

[Capt. Fargus]

2 hours ago, Armagon said:

Ah. Yeah I guess it's a bit more souped up. But it's NSMB so it lost its luster after Wii.

The original was a hot item when it first came out, hot enough where mine got stolen. Fortunately I knew who the culprit was and stole it back

There was even a TV commercial for it, which was probably the first one I ever saw for a VG

Like Blaster Master, that was a pretty long game to run through in one sitting. When you’re a kid you have that kind of time Lol... Hopefully the new ones have a save feature

Super Mario All stars for SNES wasnt a bad collection of remakes IMHO. 

[Interdimensional Observer]

29 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Sounds like an interesting idea. Wonder if FE could use it. I'll admit, much as I dislike the Fell Xenologue, the whole "bring back everyone as Corrupted" idea could've worked nicely for something like that.

I'm sure SRW could use it.

I like the loss & resurrection idea, partly because it's nebulous with lots of potential.:

• When does the main story begin? Within one year of the heroes' defeat? Five years later? Thirty? One-hundred?
  • The further we go from the great defeat, the more the world changes. Yet the heroes, being dead all that time, won't change. How do they handle any dissonance between the world they knew and the world that now is?
• More specifically than "mwahaha evil rules the world!", how does the failure of the heroes affect the countries and peoples of the world?
  • For instance, imagine the heroes during the unseen initial journey had struck a delicate compromise between two warring factions in a country. This compromise depended on a future of international peace, and one of the heroes serving as a long-term leader of said country. Without global harmony, without that one hero to guide the country, how would that compromise crumble? How could the resurrected heroes rebuild it?
• Does the main hero die? Or do they end up buried-but-alive, and somebody accidentally digs them up?
  • If we make an exception to "everyone is resurrected" for the lead hero, then what of others? If exceptions, how many?
• Do some heroes come back to life independently of the lead hero? Do some spend months awakened again, getting busily immersed in affairs somewhere else in the world?
• Do the villains resurrect anyone and subject them to mind control or general captivity? Do some heroes willingly defect seeing the aftermath of the catastrophe?
• Are there some of the 108SoD (or whatever you want to call this big hero group) that end up beyond the power of resurrection?
  • If there are some prematurely stuck in the grave forever, then is there someone else who takes their place? Are they related in some way to said deceased, or is it random destiny?

These are some musings I've had. Alas, I have no writing skills to experiment with them.

29 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Speaking of, I think recalling IV had something of a pseudo-prequel.

Suikoden Tactics is Masoukishin.😝 Begins as a prequel for the first half, *Suikoden IV happens*, second half of Tactics picks up afterwards.

Edited April 21 by Interdimensional Observer

[Acacia Sgt]

20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I'm sure SRW could use it.

Well, without the "almost everyone died" bit, it has used the whole "start with a large enough party, then everyone scatters after X event and you slowly recover everyone as you go". Alpha Gaiden, to give an example.

20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I like the loss & resurrection idea, partly because it's nebulous with lots of potential.:

• When does the main story begin? Within one year of the heroes' defeat? Five years later? Thirty? One-hundred?
  • The further we go from the great defeat, the more the world changes. Yet the heroes, being dead all that time, won't change. How do they handle any dissonance between the world they knew and the world that now is?
• More specifically than "mwahaha evil rules the world!", how does the failure of the heroes affect the countries and peoples of the world?
  • For instance, imagine the heroes during the unseen initial journey had struck a delicate compromise between two warring factions in a country. This compromise depended on a future of international peace, and one of the heroes serving as a long-term leader of said country. Without global harmony, without that one hero to guide the country, how would that compromise crumble? How could the resurrected heroes rebuild it?
• Does the main hero die? Or do they end up buried-but-alive, and somebody accidentally digs them up?
  • If we make an exception to "everyone is resurrected" for the lead hero, then what of others? If exceptions, how many?
• Do some heroes come back to life independently of the lead hero? Do some spend months awakened again, getting busily immersed in affairs somewhere else in the world?
• Do the villains resurrect anyone and subject them to mind control or general captivity? Do some heroes willingly defect seeing the aftermath of the catastrophe?
• Are there some of the 108SoD (or whatever you want to call this big hero group) that end up beyond the power of resurrection?
  • If there are some prematurely stuck in the grave forever, then is there someone else who takes their place? Are they related in some way to said deceased, or is it random destiny?

These are some musings I've had. Alas, I have no writing skills to experiment with them.

And my own skills, while perhaps barely enough for such a task, I'd still face so many hurdles trying to write something like that, heh.

20 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Suikoden Tactics is Masoukishin.😝 Begins as a prequel for the first half, *Suikoden IV happens*, second half of Tactics picks up afterwards.

Oh lol, really? XD

Are we sure Winkysoft didn't work on Suikoden Tactics? Since thanks to Fist of Mars, we know they were working with Konami on games.

Edited April 21 by Acacia Sgt

[Lightcosmo]

9 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

> Fighting Gilbert again

> See that... "attack".

Me:

Literally the best attack. 

"Jerk! Fooled ya! This is what you get! Im an elite!" Lol

[Acacia Sgt]

8 minutes ago, Lightcosmo said:

Literally the best attack. 

"Jerk! Fooled ya! This is what you get! Im an elite!" Lol

It's even funnier because it missed. XD

[Acacia Sgt]

Okay, back at the Glorious, and now I'll stop for real for today. Phew.

[Interdimensional Observer]

41 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

And my own skills, while perhaps barely enough for such a task, I'd still face so many hurdles trying to write something like that, heh.

Shortly after writing that, I remember another question.😆

In Arc Rise Fantasia (a Wii JRPG), Cecille and Dynos are siblings. Cecille looks like she could be 10, Dynos looks like he's ~18, yet he is the little brother.😕 The reason for this, is that both had gone into stasis. Yet the stasis was caused by a millennia-long sleep spell, not a freezer or time cage. The Lullaby wore off on Dynos a few years before it did on Cecille, and, because of the physical toll it puts on the body, one can't have the Lullaby reapplied right away, you need to wait a while. Then, while he was awake, stuff happened and Dynos chose not to go back to sleep.

-So, the additional question- if some heroes resurrected well before/after others, how could it possibly affect the relationships between them?

• What if a -in a situation that requires a decade or more between resurrections- a child became a grown parent before their own parent -a Star of Destiny- could start becoming grandparent age? Let's say the child goes from 13 to 35, while the parent remains stuck at 35.
• How would years of separation affect two fierce rivals? How long can one be a top athlete in something physically demanding? The rivals would cease to be equally-matched if one was 40 and the other still 25.
• Lovers are another, obvious situation. We could complicate this by having the first lover -not knowing if/when their lover would resurrect- ending up marrying/starting a family with someone else. If death does one part from romantic existing obligations, then would resurrection make those abandoned vows binding again, no matter how awkward they might now be? -Keep in mind, the vows would still be fresh in the heart and mind of the second lover, even if they've faded in the first.

I don't think both character in the different situations above would need to both be Stars of Destiny or whatever they are, just the one who remains the same would have to be. But, with a cast of 108, you would easily have room for both characters to be heroes.

---

...There are enough possibilities here that I think I could write 54 distinct small tales (108/2, putting all the Stars into groups of two, though you wouldn't even need that many if you had some cliques of 3-5. Although single-star situations would also almost certainly exist) using the resurrection concept.😅 The devil is in the deciding what the details will be. And then figuring out how to create from the individual stories (or at least some of them, lighthearted third-rate-importance characters don't need to be so carefully woven in) a cohesive whole.😵

The worst that could happen, would be not doing enough with the concept. If the heroes went about too much like nothing serious happened, nothing between each other, nothing between themselves their world.🥱 -Or, in earnest attempts to make death, resurrection, and the passage of time all-important, you end up with a mush of nice ideas that don't gel together. It's not time travel potentially bad, since the arrow of time is only able to move forward here (and I'd avoid re-killing heroes only to re-resurrect them, that'd cross one serious red line), but I'm afraid of how it could all collapse.😵‍💫

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Are we sure Winkysoft didn't work on Suikoden Tactics? Since thanks to Fist of Mars, we know they were working with Konami on games.

I was maybe thinking of starting FoM soon. Maybe, I did download it a day or two ago. I do like mecha -but is too soon from finishing GC? And I do have a very not-mecha backlog.😆

And even with mecha, there's a non-zero chance I could pick up Megaton Musashi soon. That'd possibly complicate the mecha picture if I did.🤔

[Acacia Sgt]

Yeah, specially for a cast so large, it'd be way too complex. I could see that sort of thing working better in a more "regular" game where the party isn't as large.

11 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I was maybe thinking of starting FoM soon. Maybe, I did download it a day or two ago. I do like mecha -but is too soon from finishing GC? And I do have a very not-mecha backlog.😆

And even with mecha, there's a non-zero chance I could pick up Megaton Musashi soon. That'd possibly complicate the mecha picture if I did.🤔

When did you finished GC, again? Feels like it was long ago already. XD

My bias would say to go for it. Or maybe compromise. Pick up FoM and a different game and alternate? It's worth pointing out that FoM has two endings... though admittedly, I don't remember how different they are, but if you can still get two playthroughs out of it, you can do one now, and leave the other for much later, so you can move on to a non-mecha game or two before you pick up FoM or SRW again?

---

Hmm, I wanted to use my Switch, but I currently can't. Well, maybe I can go back to Trails then...

Edited April 22 by Acacia Sgt

[Interdimensional Observer]

15 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Yeah, specially for a cast so large, it'd be way too complex. I could see that sort of thing working better in a more "regular" game where the party isn't as large.

With a Suiko-sized cast, you could make an altar-worthy triptych dedicated to the theme of resurrection and change, an entire Sistine Chapel ceiling!🤩 A minuscule 8-playable crew couldn't embody as much.😝

...But Michelangelo has been dead for centuries. Who on Earth could possibly pull it off?😆

15 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

When did you finished GC, again? Feels like it was long ago already. XD

*Searches this topic* ...February 13th. Thought it was later than that.🤣

18 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

My bias would say to go for it. Or maybe compromise. Pick up FoM and a different game and alternate? It's worth pointing out that FoM has two endings... though admittedly, I don't remember how different they are, but if you can still get two playthroughs out of it, you can do one now, and leave the other for much later, so you can move on to a non-mecha game or two before you pick up FoM or SRW again?

Honestly, FoM feels less intimidating to start than Berseria (still didn't today😅) or XC3 (I've been meaning to since around the 4th of this month). Not sure why, maybe I'm simply more chill with giant robots? Like, there's no need to hold my breath and shove all other thoughts to the side in order to become immersed, because I know I'll slide right into it?

[Acacia Sgt]

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

With a Suiko-sized cast, you could make an altar-worthy triptych dedicated to the theme of resurrection and change, an entire Sistine Chapel ceiling!🤩 A minuscule 8-playable crew couldn't embody as much.😝

...But Michelangelo has been dead for centuries. Who on Earth could possibly pull it off?😆

Well, that's true, heh.

5 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

*Searches this topic* ...February 13th. Thought it was later than that.🤣

Honestly, FoM feels less intimidating to start than Berseria (still didn't today😅) or XC3 (I've been meaning to since around the 4th of this month). Not sure why, maybe I'm simply more chill with giant robots? Like, there's no need to hold my breath and shove all other thoughts to the side in order to become immersed, because I know I'll slide right into it?

Also the familiarity, I guess. I think I mentioned before how FoM plays just like a SRW game, pretty much. So you won't be too lost trying to get the hang of it.

[Interdimensional Observer]

8 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Also the familiarity, I guess. I think I mentioned before how FoM plays just like a SRW game, pretty much. So you won't be too lost trying to get the hang of it.

It's not so much gameplay that keeps me from starting a new game in a familiar genre, it's not like I'm a XenoNewb or Tales novice.😆 It's almost entirely a matter of overcoming cold feet, worries about focusing and fearing I won't get into the groove right away. (Maybe I'm too harsh on myself for having distracting thoughts while doing story-heavy gaming.😅)

With SRW, and I suppose mecha in general (I did disproportionately enjoy E.S. combat in Xenosaga), the alarm could go off while I'm in the shower, and I'd feel comfortable sprinting to the hangar without a towel.😛

[Acacia Sgt]

10 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

It's not so much gameplay that keeps me from starting a new game in a familiar genre, it's not like I'm a XenoNewb or Tales novice.😆 It's almost entirely a matter of overcoming cold feet, worries about focusing and fearing I won't get into the groove right away. (Maybe I'm too harsh on myself for having distracting thoughts while doing story-heavy gaming.😅)

With SRW, and I suppose mecha in general (I did disproportionately enjoy E.S. combat in Xenosaga), the alarm could go off while I'm in the shower, and I'd feel comfortable sprinting to the hangar without a towel.😛

Ah, I see, heh. Pft, now you reminded me of Lefina going to battle in her nightie. lol

[Interdimensional Observer]

Just now, Acacia Sgt said:

Pft, now you reminded me of Lefina going to battle in her nightie. lol

-That one. They conveniently had the Hiryu's gravity cannon undergoing maintenance during that battle, otherwise we would've needed an edited CG and a new cut-in.

Lefina kept her captain's composure through it, that's praiseworthy. Yurika would possibly not.

[Acacia Sgt]

8 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

-That one. They conveniently had the Hiryu's gravity cannon undergoing maintenance during that battle, otherwise we would've needed an edited CG and a new cut-in.

Lefina kept her captain's composure through it, that's praiseworthy. Yurika would possibly not.

Guess they didn't want to go the extra mile there, huh. lol

Now I'm wondering if something similar (not necessarily a battle happening while she's sleeping) did actually happen in Nadesico...

[Lightcosmo]

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

It's even funnier because it missed. XD

Poor pathetic Gilbert.

[Acacia Sgt]

11 minutes ago, Lightcosmo said:

Poor pathetic Gilbert.

I didn't even let him attack for the third battle, pft.

[Acacia Sgt]

Okay, the final stretch. Will continue tomorrow, perhaps. I'm finishing the game on the workweek for sure.

Hmm, what to do later, on that subject. Was thinking Secret of Mana. I finished Adventures of Mana long enough already (which still baffles me why it's not on PC yet), so perhaps it's time to do Secret of Mana now.

[Saint Rubenio]

10 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Certainly sounds like were being safe. Again, hopefully this already-announced sequel feels freer to become something of its own, and refine what people now see as aged kinks in the formula. Spiritual successors and Kickstarters sure have had a mixed record, Armed Fantasia and Penny Blood are next in the firing line.

Guess we'll see. Sometimes they come out right. Bloodstained was pretty good.

10 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Curious how Konami's 1&2 rerelease will do then. If they skimp on the QoL updates, and quite possibly a new translation, then I can see some reviewers not so nostalgic giving the old games tepid scores.

It'll see some success just on the basis of being Suikoden 1&2's remake. People love buying the thing they played in their childhood again, regardless of the merits of the remake itself.

...Not that I'm against remakes on principle. Sometimes they're a nice upgrade, and in this case I'd argue it's almost necessary, because... Well, you may recall from when I tried them out, but Suikoden 1&2 do not have a translation that meets modern standards at all. It's complete garbage and totally distracting unless you're playing it as a child who doesn't know better.

Considering these are JRPGs, and JRPGs with particularly awful combat while at that, the story is doing a lot of heavy lifting, and having a translation that is not shit will significantly benefit them for anyone who isn't already nostalgic for them. That's really all they need to do - improving the combat and difficulty would be cool but I'm not holding my breath on that one. I'm not the target audience of JRPGs.

[Interdimensional Observer]

9 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Hmm, what to do later, on that subject. Was thinking Secret of Mana. I finished Adventures of Mana long enough already (which still baffles me why it's not on PC yet), so perhaps it's time to do Secret of Mana now.

I played a bit of Secret of Mana once, the iOS version to be precise. Though a vibrant 16-bit oldie it was, I felt the combat was clunky with its age, stuck unhappily between turn-based and action. While the Trials remake still has a pinch of excessive mid-combat menuing, I did appreciate its shift to purer action. (And I've heard the 3D remake of Secret wasn't received very well.)

Do enjoy though!😀 Ought to be a good change of pace from Trails?

Edited April 22 by Interdimensional Observer

[Acacia Sgt]

3 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

I played a bit of Secret of Mana once, the iOS version to be precise. Though a vibrant 16-bit oldie it was, I felt the combat was clunky with its age, stuck unhappily between turn-based and action. While the Trials remake still has a pinch of excessive mid-combat menuing, I did appreciate its shift to purer action. (And I've heard the 3D remake of Secret wasn't received very well.)

Do enjoy though!😀 Ought to be a good change of pace from Trails?

Heard about that. Biggest shame had to be the removal of multiplayer. Sounded so cool to have three people play together.

I suppose it would, heh.

[Acacia Sgt]

Okay, time for the Axis Pillar.

Combined with the red-painted Glorious, this is sounding very much familiar...

I know there's the fast-travel through the rails, but I would've still preferred for the party members to, like, assembled outside. So at least switching the party wouldn't need too much backtracking.

Edited April 23 by Acacia Sgt

[Lightcosmo]

11 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Okay, time for the Axis Pillar.

Combined with the red-painted Glorious, this is sounding very much familiar...

I know there's the fast-travel through the rails, but I would've still preferred for the party members to, like, assembled outside. So at least switching the party wouldn't need too much backtracking.

If you are playing the PC version with a controller, an upcoming part doesnt respond with anything but keyboard/mouse controls strangely.

Edited April 23 by Lightcosmo

[Acacia Sgt]

2 minutes ago, Lightcosmo said:

If you are playing the PC version with a controller, an upcoming part doesnt respond with anything but keyboard/mouse controls strangely.

It's fine. Though I keep telling myself to use a controller when playing on Steam, I keep forgetting... well, recently I more or less just went with it anyway.