Anyone else feel these are by far the most boring CYL winning units we've gotten so far

[Tybrosion]

9 hours ago, Baldrick said:

"whether we like it or not"

You can still be salty about this outcome all you want, but you can shove off with that “forced upon us” bullshit.

They would’ve actually been forced if IS decided the CYL4 winners on their own and gave the player base zero say (in other words, they treated CYL4 like any other banner with new characters).

[Baldrick]

How dare I be salty about CYL in a thread dedicated to being salty about CYL

Quote

They would’ve actually been forced if IS decided the CYL4 winners on their own and gave the player base zero say (in other words, they treated CYL4 like any other banner with new characters).

There's no difference between IS ignoring my feedback and adding alts, and the fanbase using their superior numbers to add in alts. In both cases, it's out of my control.

As an aside, replace alts with OCs and I bet your attitude would change.

Edited August 27, 2020 by Baldrick

[Tybrosion]

30 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

How dare I be salty about CYL in a thread dedicated to being salty about CYL

Yeah, except the original poster isn’t even salty but rather just disappointed by the unit types selected. Meanwhile, you’re over here whining about the characters who won when that was never OP’s intent with this topic.

30 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

There's no difference between IS ignoring my feedback and adding alts, and the fanbase using their superior numbers to add in alts. In both cases, it's out of my control.

Yup, it’s out of your control just like a lot of other things in life in general. If you think that everything should revolve entirely around your wants at all times, then you are woefully mistaken.

[Baldrick]

36 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

Yeah, except the original poster isn’t even salty but rather just disappointed by the unit types selected. Meanwhile, you’re over here whining about the characters who won when that was never OP’s intent with this topic.

So people complaining about things you don't like are "disappointed", whereas people complaining about things you like are "salty" and "whining"? Your hypocrisy is breathtaking.

I refuse to be shamed about my preferences.

Quote

Yup, it’s out of your control 

So it's not bullshit to say it's forced upon us, then.

Also, can you quote me where I said there should never be alts of characters I don't like added, ever? I can't recall that.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Baldrick

[Tybrosion]

21 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

So people complaining about things you don't like are "disappointed", whereas people complaining about things you like are "salty" and "whining"? Your hypocrisy is disgusting.

I have no clue where you got this from as I've never voiced disappointment about or dislike for the unit types selected for CYL4.

You legitimately are coming across as whiny when you say stuff like "they were forced upon us" or "what control we do have, we squander". Oh, and there is no "us" or "we" in those statements because you do not come even close to speaking for the entire FEH player base. 

No one is saying that you can't have preferences. The problem here is that you are coming across as entirely self-centered and are rejecting the results of a player voted poll because it failed to line up with what you specifically wanted.

[Baldrick]

 

Quote

I have no clue where you got this from as I've never voiced disappointment about or dislike for the unit types selected for CYL4.

Then I apologise for presuming.

Still, how you do categorise your post about the Mirabilis banner?

Quote

"they were forced upon us"

That's in response to somebody claiming that because I am part of the fanbase, I must have chosen the house leaders to win CYL.

Quote

"what control we do have, we squander".

Fair, but that said, I don't think it's any more whiny than "That banner was hot garbage then, and it's still hot garbage now".

Quote

Oh, and there is no "us" or "we" in those statements because you do not come even close to speaking for the entire FEH player base. 

Yet you're perfectly OK with other people speaking for the entire FEH player base.

Quote

The problem here is that you are coming across as entirely self-centered and are rejecting the results of a player voted poll because it failed to line up with what you specifically wanted.

So you are saying that if I have preferences, then I am entirely self-centred.

I'm still waiting for you to either quote where I said there should never be alts of characters I don't like added, ever, or admit you were strawmanning me.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Baldrick

[Florete]

1 hour ago, Baldrick said:

That's in response to somebody claiming that because I am part of the fanbase, I must have chosen the house leaders to win CYL.

No one said that. All that was said is that player votes determined the characters present in this summoning focus. For the record, not a single one of my own CYL votes was for any of the 4 winners.

Be disappointed all you want, but you're being extremely childish in here.

[Baldrick]

5 minutes ago, Florete said:

No one said that.

"... We, the fan base, voted to have the three house leaders win CYL"

Quote

For the record, not a single one of my own CYL votes was for any of the 4 winners.

Does it follow that you and I are not part of the fan base, then?

Quote

Be disappointed all you want, but you're being extremely childish in here

You and Tybrosion have insulted me, made false claims, so maybe I am reacting to that.

Tybrosion has also shamed me for my preferences despite the fact he was far more contemptuous of Mirabilis banner (not the topic of the thread) than I was of the this banner.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Baldrick

[Florete]

1 minute ago, Baldrick said:

"... We, the fan base, voted to have the three house leaders win CYL"

Nowhere am I reading "Other players voted for them, so you must have, too." The USA voted Trump into office, that doesn't mean every citizen voted for him.

2 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Does it follow that you and I are not part of the fan base, then?

No. That's ridiculous.

2 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

You and Tybrosion have insulted me, made false claims, and shamed me for my preferences, so maybe I am reacting to that.

Because you've been acting like a spoiled child, saying that a fan-voted event was "forced upon us" like IS is actively shoving it in your face and acting like if it's not something you like, it shouldn't exist. No one has shamed you for your preferences nor made false claims.

[Sunwoo]

All right, children, let's all agree to disagree and move on with our lives. This argument is honestly stupid and should've ended long ago.

People who didn't vote for any of the CYL winners (like myself) are allowed to be disappointed and/or annoyed that the fanbase as a general continues to vote characters who have and will get lots of alts to get more alts. People who like the CYL winners and voted for them are free to feel otherwise about that and be disappointed that IS chose the laziest way possible. Far as I can tell, what Baldrick said didn't really warrant any sort of special response other than ignoring him if you didn't agree with him. Poor wording aside, Tybrosion's reaction to him was overly hostile, and that dude has honestly reacted far, far worse about the OCs. With less of a calling out.

[Icelerate]

4 hours ago, Baldrick said:

How dare I be salty about CYL in a thread dedicated to being salty about CYL

There's no difference between IS ignoring my feedback and adding alts, and the fanbase using their superior numbers to add in alts. In both cases, it's out of my control.

As an aside, replace alts with OCs and I bet your attitude would change.

So when the fanbase or IS decides to add a character to the game, they need your approval. 

[Baldrick]

1 minute ago, Florete said:

Nowhere am I reading "Other players voted for them, so you must have, too." The USA voted Trump into office, that doesn't mean every citizen voted for him.

If you are an American citizen, Trump is the President forced upon you, whether you like it or not.

1 minute ago, Florete said:

No. That's ridiculous.

Do you agree that you did not choose the house leaders, then?

1 minute ago, Florete said:

Because you've been acting like a spoiled child, saying that a fan-voted event was "forced upon us" like IS is actively shoving it in your face and acting like if it's not something you like, it shouldn't exist.

"Forced upon us" means it was not my choice.

Quote me where I said the banner shouldn't exist.

1 minute ago, Florete said:

 

No one has shamed you for your preferences nor made false claims.

Tybrosion has claimed that I want every banner to cater to my wants, and you have claimed that I think Brave house leaders shouldn't exist, both claims with no basis. 

I have taken both claims to be shaming me, because they are accompanied by pejorative language such as "salty" and "childish".

 

Just now, Icelerate said:

So when the fanbase or IS decides to add a character to the game, they need your approval. 

Quote me where I said people aren't allowed to do things I don't approve of.

6 minutes ago, Sunwoo said:

All right, children, let's all agree to disagree and move on with our lives. This argument is honestly stupid and should've ended long ago.

I know.

To clarify; I think this banner was a waste of potential, and I had no input into it.

Apparently this means people always have to do I want, I always get what I want, and things I don't want shouldn't exist.

[Icelerate]

1 minute ago, Baldrick said:

Quote me where I said people aren't allowed to do things I don't approve of.

 

You're acting like the new heroes were forced upon you as if it was an injustice. 

On 8/26/2020 at 9:50 PM, Baldrick said:

I didn't vote for them. What you mean is that the three house leaders were forced upon us, whether we like it or not.

This type of language is used when a grave injustice or oppression occurs. 

[Baldrick]

Just now, Icelerate said:

 

You're acting like the new heroes were forced upon you as if it was an injustice. 

 

This type of language is used when a grave injustice or oppression occurs. 

I'm sorry if my language offends you.

Does that give you the right to strawman me by reading things into my posts that I have repeatedly asserted aren't there?

[Florete]

2 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Do you agree that you did not choose the house leaders, then?

Yes. That doesn't mean I'm not part of the fanbase, it means the fanbase isn't part of me.

3 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Quote me where I said the banner shouldn't exist.

I said you were "acting like it," not that you actually said it.

3 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Tybrosion has claimed that I want every banner to cater to my wants, and you have claimed that I think Brave house leaders shouldn't exist, both claims with no basis. 

I have taken both claims to be shaming me, because they are accompanied by pejorative language such as "salty" and "childish".

Even if those are true, that's shaming you for your actions, not preferences. Both of us said you're free to be disappointed, which is acceptance of whatever your preferences are.

4 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Quote me where I said people aren't allowed to do things I don't approve of.

If this is how you react to things you don't like, it's not much different. That's the attitude you give off.

[Baldrick]

11 minutes ago, Florete said:

Yes. That doesn't mean I'm not part of the fanbase, it means the fanbase isn't part of me.

You're not part of IS and IS is not part of you, either. So there's no difference between IS deciding something for you (move types of CYL) and the fanbase deciding something for you (characters of CYL)

Quote

I said you were "acting like it," not that you actually said it.

I'm sorry for using strong language. It wasn't meant to be pejorative.

Quote

Even if those are true, that's shaming you for your actions, not preferences. Both of us said you're free to be disappointed, which is acceptance of whatever your preferences are.

Holding you to the same standard as you hold me, you are "acting like" my preferences shouldn't exist.

Quote

If this is how you react to things you don't like, it's not much different. That's the attitude you give off.

My reactions are more to do with false claims and pejorative language aimed at me, rather than results of CYL.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Baldrick

[Florete]

6 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Holding you to the same standard as you hold me, you are "acting like" my preferences shouldn't exist.

No, I am absolutely not. How do you reach such a conclusion? In the very line you quoted I said I accepted your preferences, whatever they may be. This banner wasn't to my preference, but I'm not acting the way you are about it.

The rest of your post is just...you do you, I guess.

[Baldrick]

Just now, Florete said:

No, I am absolutely not. How do you reach such a conclusion?

You claim I could not say the banner was forced upon us because the most people wanted it. When I indicated that it is entirely valid to say individuals could not choose the banner regardless of whether or not it is to our preference, you ignored me and did not admit you made a false claim. Instead, you chose to call me "childish" for my choice of language.

That gives the impression that while you may say you accept my opinion, you appeal to groupthink in order to invalidate it, and insults in order to make me feel uncomfortable in expressing it.

Just now, Florete said:

In the very line you quoted I said I accepted your preferences, whatever they may be.

I said you were "acting like it", not that you actually said it.

Just now, Florete said:

This banner wasn't to my preference, but I'm not acting the way you are about it.

That's because you haven't faced the scrutiny I have over my posts.

[Florete]

12 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

You claim I could not say the banner was forced upon us because the most people wanted it.

Let me ask you something: if the banner was 100% what you wanted it to be, would you still say it was "forced upon us?"

13 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

I said you were "acting like it", not that you actually said it.

Doesn't really work when I said the exact opposite.

13 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

That's because you haven't faced the scrutiny I have over my posts.

I haven't said ridiculous things like the banner was "forced upon us" that would be worthy of scrutiny.

[Baldrick]

1 minute ago, Florete said:

Let me ask you something: if the banner was 100% what you wanted it to be, would you still say it was "forced upon us?"

Yes, because other people might not like it.

1 minute ago, Florete said:

Doesn't really work when I said the exact opposite.

It doesn't change the way you acted.

1 minute ago, Florete said:

I haven't said ridiculous things like the banner was "forced upon us" that would be worthy of scrutiny.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/force on/upon

to cause (someone or something that is not wanted) to be accepted by (someone)

 

Any pejorative implications are entirely invented by you and others.

[Florete]

2 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

Yes, because other people might not like it.

Well at least you're consistent.

As a final note, I will merely suggest you be careful when using "forced upon" in the future. It doesn't mean to others what it apparently means to you.

[Baldrick]

1 minute ago, Florete said:

Well at least you're consistent

I guess this is as close to an apology I'm going to get.

1 minute ago, Florete said:

As a final note, I will merely suggest you be careful when using "forced upon" in the future. It doesn't mean to others what it apparently means to you.

I'll use the language I like. If it takes people several posts to ask for clarification, so be it.

[Florete]

1 minute ago, Baldrick said:

I guess this is as close to an apology I'm going to get.

Don't patronize me. You haven't earned one.

[Baldrick]

14 minutes ago, Florete said:

Don't patronize me. You haven't earned one.

So you still think you were justified in calling me childish, despite the fact that our disagreement was caused by the fact you assumed pejorative intentions in language I used which does not have those pejorative intentions according to a dictionary definition, instead of taking the incredibly simple step of just asking me if I had pejorative intentions?

You do you, I guess.

 

Now that that's settled:

I think Brave Claude's healing effect makes him very interesting as a ranged tank/dual phase unit, and certainly distinct from his other version who is pretty much just a speed nuke. Just because they're the same colour, doesn't mean they play the same.

Contrast Tibarn, whose pirate version is pretty much just Colourless form of his other version. He has exactly the same effect, guaranteed follow-up, just with a different, less restrictive condition. He plays the same, despite being different colours.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with alts sharing colours. What effect does Takumi having four colourless versions have? For one thing, it means he has four versions when many characters don't even have one yet. For another thing, it makes Takumi Emblem unwieldy for high-level content compared to other character emblem teams, but far from impossible to find a use for if you really like Takumi. And it certainly does not pigeon-hole different versions of Takumi into being redundant. If they are (I'm no expert on Takumi), it is because of their skillset, not their colour.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Baldrick

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

All right, children, let's all agree to disagree and move on with our lives. This argument is honestly stupid and should've ended long ago.

People who didn't vote for any of the CYL winners (like myself) are allowed to be disappointed and/or annoyed that the fanbase as a general continues to vote characters who have and will get lots of alts to get more alts. People who like the CYL winners and voted for them are free to feel otherwise about that and be disappointed that IS chose the laziest way possible. Far as I can tell, what Baldrick said didn't really warrant any sort of special response other than ignoring him if you didn't agree with him. Poor wording aside, Tybrosion's reaction to him was overly hostile, and that dude has honestly reacted far, far worse about the OCs. With less of a calling out.

Hey, hey, all of the this folks. I know this is something of a bitchin thread, but, well let's not take it over with such an unrelated strain of bitchery.

42 minutes ago, Baldrick said:

So you still think you were justified in calling me childish, despite the fact that our disagreement was caused by the fact you assumed pejorative intentions in language I used which does not have those pejorative intentions according to a dictionary definition, instead of taking the incredibly simple step of just asking me if I had pejorative intentions?

You do you, I guess.

 

Now that that's settled:

I think Brave Claude's healing effect makes him very interesting as a ranged tank/dual phase unit, and certainly distinct from his other version who is pretty much just a speed nuke. Just because they're the same colour, doesn't mean they play the same.

Contrast Tibarn, whose pirate version is pretty much just Colourless form of his other version. He has exactly the same effect, guaranteed follow-up, just with a different, less restrictive condition. He plays the same, despite being different colours.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with alts sharing colours. What effect does Takumi having four colourless versions have? For one thing, it means he has four versions when many characters don't even have one yet. For another thing, it makes Takumi Emblem unwieldy for high-level content compared to other character emblem teams, but far from impossible to find a use for if you really like Takumi. And it certainly does not pigeon-hole different versions of Takumi into being redundant. If they are (I'm no expert on Takumi), it is because of their skillset, not their colour.

Flying Takumi I find somewhat useful because, well bow fliers are useful for other fliers. That being said, if you have another bow flier (like Claude) they're probably going to outclass him. Don't have dagger Takumi, but I can't imagine how he'd really be all that great compared to other dagger units with prfs. Infantry bow Takumi's are both quite terrible at this point though. Fallen Takumi had some really niche useage on maps where there was no auto aggro and you could wait until turn three to put out an assault that turns the enemies buffs against them, Saias's map is a good example, but the game has moved really far away from that style of play now and both Takumis are just  SO yeah, pretty much all Takumis are useless in my book.

 

Now. That being said, how good or bad Takumi happens to be is a bit irrelevant. What we have here for the purpose of discussion are faces and units. By that I mean the unit is all the stats and skills a unit has, and a face is all the artwork and lines a character has. The characters Face may inspire the skills and design for a unit, but they are in a functional sense, completely interchangable. We could have had armoured axe Dimitri or bow flier Edelgard. If  we just swap the artwork you still have an identical unit for the purpose of gameplay. As far as gameplay is concerned what face is attached to the stat is completely irrelevant (outside of which series they originate from barring them from certain modes). This banner has a flying archer, an axe armour, a lance infantry and an infantry mage. We could swap the names and it wouldn't change anything about the functionality of those units.

So if we accept that who a particular unit is has absolutely no bearing on how useful a particular unit is, the question becomes why should or shouldn't we put the same face on units of a similar build. And the answer for why we shouldn't is simply variety. If like Edelgard I won't really want basically a replacement Edelgard making my previous one obsolete (though of course power creep will make everything obsolete eventually, but if we're viewing things purely from an efficiency stand point, the faces are irrelevant, viewing it from a faces stand point means there are certain characters we want to use because we like them). I'd like a new Edelgard that can work in tandem with old Edelgard and make both of them worthwhile. And if I'm such an Edelgard fanboy I want to make a team composed of four different Edelgards, well then I'd much rather I could make that team with four units that cover each others weakness and incapabilities. Instead of having three axe armours and one axe infantry.