Anyone else feel these are by far the most boring CYL winning units we've gotten so far

[Troykv]

7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

They aren't quite exactly the same. Legendary Lucina has her Great Lord outfit minus the shield. Brave Lucina has her Great Lord outfit with a different breastplate. The breastplate appears to be loosely based off of Chrom's Great Lord armor.

Truth, isn't exactly the same, using a shield like that with an bow would be weird xD

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Mercakete said:

Uhh wouldn't that turn him into a black beast since he doesn't have the crest to match Failnaught? (This is why Failnaught stayed in the convoy during my Azure Moon route.)

No, only people without crests at all risk turning into black beasts, represented by loosing hp when they use the weapons. Though it takes someone with a matching crest to unleash the true strength of the weapons, represented by the unique combat arts. If Failnaught would turn anyone except Claude into a black beast there'd be no point in him giving it to you.

[Dandy Druid]

Maybe their Legendary forms will be more interesting. Claude can use his special sword in a legendary form. (Sword of Beralta, was it?)

For Dimitri, IDK. Maybe something mounted could be different.

[Jotari]

38 minutes ago, Dandy Druid said:

Maybe their Legendary forms will be more interesting. Claude can use his special sword in a legendary form. (Sword of Beralta, was it?)

For Dimitri, IDK. Maybe something mounted could be different.

As per I said earlier, if Dimitri and Claude had some with Failnaught and Aredbhar this wouldn't feel like as much of an issue as the legendary units could use a different weapon (like Alm). But they're hardly going to not use Failnaught and Aredbhar at this point, especially since Edelgard already has incarnation with Aymr.

[Kiran_]

8 hours ago, Yexin said:

point is, that's what Legendary Heroes are for

CYL has never been about characters "being at their final forms", except for Alm, Celica and Micaiah

that's partly why more people aren't happy with this year's CYL, they look like Legendary Heroes

You can't say it's not and then say 'except' and name 3, because that proves it's not a rule.

Also, they don't look like Legendary Heroes, because clearly the Legendary Heroes for them would be their first tier time-skip promoted looks. When they've each done 'legendary' things. And then Edelgard's Legendary was exactly this. Her first time-skip look, as it should have been. Dimitri is also going to be in that look when he gets a Legendary Hero. 

So when they already have clear legendary hero forms, I'm not sure what's surprising about them using the next stage for CYL? Unless you want like 4 alts of the character? I could never see them making the 3 Lords first time-skip looks, just normal units. 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Kiran_ said:

You can't say it's not and then say 'except' and name 3, because that proves it's not a rule.

Also, they don't look like Legendary Heroes, because clearly the Legendary Heroes for them would be their first tier time-skip promoted looks. When they've each done 'legendary' things. And then Edelgard's Legendary was exactly this. Her first time-skip look, as it should have been. Dimitri is also going to be in that look when he gets a Legendary Hero. 

So when they already have clear legendary hero forms, I'm not sure what's surprising about them using the next stage for CYL? Unless you want like 4 alts of the character? I could never see them making the 3 Lords first time-skip looks, just normal units. 

They didn't say it's not a rule that units can't be part of their final forms, but that it's not a trend. And among the listed exceptions I'd really question Alm and Celica considering their brave variations were more about their classic look than their ultimate look. They did later (or I think earlier for Alm?) get legendary versions that were based on their overclasses. So Micaiah is the only character prior to this banner where they clearly chose to represent their promoted class. That has much more commonly been the realm of Legendary units. Not that I think this really matters in the grandscheme. Wether they look like their Advanced Class or their Master Class doesn't really matter to me for the Three Houses lords compared to what weapons they use. Though I think it would make more sense if the master class variations were the ones using their canonical relics.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Jotari

[Othin]

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

No, only people without crests at all risk turning into black beasts, represented by loosing hp when they use the weapons. Though it takes someone with a matching crest to unleash the true strength of the weapons, represented by the unique combat arts. If Failnaught would turn anyone except Claude into a black beast there'd be no point in him giving it to you.

I think it's more complicated than that. I remember in one of Linhardt's supports, he asks to try using one of the weapons, saying the fact that he has a different crest means he should only have a risk of transforming if he uses it repeatedly rather than just once.

[Jotari]

18 minutes ago, Othin said:

I think it's more complicated than that. I remember in one of Linhardt's supports, he asks to try using one of the weapons, saying the fact that he has a different crest means he should only have a risk of transforming if he uses it repeatedly rather than just once.

Well in any regard it is considered safe enough to use that in universe Claude isn't depicted as malicious handing Failnaught over to Dimitri. It is something he genuinely thinks can help them fight Edelgard even without him or anyone with his crest present.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Jotari

[Mercakete]

20 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well in any regard it is considered safe enough to use that in universe Claude isn't depicted as malicious handing Failnaught over to Dimitri. It is something he genuinely thinks can help them fight Edelgard even without him or anyone with his crest present.

I don't know about that. Claude himself repeatedly talks about how everything he does is in self-interest. I think that he wanted to leave behind anything that connected him to Fodlan, but maybe still wanted to make sure Failnaught was at least in safe care. He himself has both said and shown how much he trusts Dimitri (albeit not a very personal tie -- more like he understands Dimitri's character well enough that he knows certain purposes will be able to be fulfilled by him) so he'd be a safe person to give such a dangerous weapon to. Indeed, he's not malicious (Good or bad, he hardly has any attachment to anyone in Fodlan. Very much a "nothing personal" kind of guy, whether as a benefactor or a malefactor.) but that doesn't mean he's not indifferent. I doubt he was trying to help Dimitri. More like, if it helped Dimitri out, then cool, sure. Better to have Dimitri as a neighboring ruler than Edelgard, from Claude's point of view. (Less likely to invade, may even be able to set up relations, and, quite frankly, more harmless overall.)

[Jotari]

45 minutes ago, Mercakete said:

I don't know about that. Claude himself repeatedly talks about how everything he does is in self-interest. I think that he wanted to leave behind anything that connected him to Fodlan, but maybe still wanted to make sure Failnaught was at least in safe care. He himself has both said and shown how much he trusts Dimitri (albeit not a very personal tie -- more like he understands Dimitri's character well enough that he knows certain purposes will be able to be fulfilled by him) so he'd be a safe person to give such a dangerous weapon to. Indeed, he's not malicious (Good or bad, he hardly has any attachment to anyone in Fodlan. Very much a "nothing personal" kind of guy, whether as a benefactor or a malefactor.) but that doesn't mean he's not indifferent. I doubt he was trying to help Dimitri. More like, if it helped Dimitri out, then cool, sure. Better to have Dimitri as a neighboring ruler than Edelgard, from Claude's point of view. (Less likely to invade, may even be able to set up relations, and, quite frankly, more harmless overall.)

Well I guess you could take it as a symbolic gesture, but the game doesn't treat it as purely that way as it does put the weapon into your inventory and let you use it freely from that point on, which at the very least I think is justification enough to have a hypothetical Dimitri alt use it in Heroes. It's more to go on than the borrowing in previous CYL incarnations which were based on absolutely nothing from the actual game.

[Yexin]

49 minutes ago, Kiran_ said:

You can't say it's not and then say 'except' and name 3, because that proves it's not a rule.

Also, they don't look like Legendary Heroes, because clearly the Legendary Heroes for them would be their first tier time-skip promoted looks. When they've each done 'legendary' things. And then Edelgard's Legendary was exactly this. Her first time-skip look, as it should have been. Dimitri is also going to be in that look when he gets a Legendary Hero. 

So when they already have clear legendary hero forms, I'm not sure what's surprising about them using the next stage for CYL? Unless you want like 4 alts of the character? I could never see them making the 3 Lords first time-skip looks, just normal units. 

except i can, since my point still stands for 9 Brave heroes out of 12 before CYL4.

yeah, you're right, my bad. they don't look like legendary heroes: they look like their almost guaranteed legendary versions, for both movement and weapon types (Legendary Edelgard and Brave Edelgard have the same movement and weapon types), but with different weapons because their regalia will 100% be used for their legendary versions.
i hope i made myself clear, because i'll not repeat myself.

what's surprising is that no other Brave hero before CYL4 shares both movement AND weapon types, except for Alm (Brave Ike is an intanfry unit but wields an axe, Brave Lucina is an infantry unit but wields a lance, etc.)

[SuperNova125]

Something I didn't like is how one form would replace the other. However, after using both CYL and Legendary Edelgard a lot I believe the similarity is only the weapon and movement type. Their playstyle is different enough to even put them both in the same team. Legendary is a player phase unit whether you use Galeforce or another special makes little to no difference. Brave is enemy phase tank. She does have a solid player phase however, enemy phase is where she truly shines, I even made her my Astra tank. If the other two follow the same pattern of differentiating their playstyle then aside from colour coverage I don't see a problem. Legendary Dimitri with Atrocity and his relic as an infantry lance would be a nuke or a vantage sweeper or something offensive focused while Brave is an enemy phase tank. Brave Claude is weird with that healing so the legendary would have no problem. 

However, this doesn't mean that Hagemon Edelgard and a potential fellen Dimitri should also be green armor and blue infantry respectively. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by SuperNova125

[Mercakete]

42 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Well I guess you could take it as a symbolic gesture, but the game doesn't treat it as purely that way as it does put the weapon into your inventory and let you use it freely from that point on, which at the very least I think is justification enough to have a hypothetical Dimitri alt use it in Heroes. It's more to go on than the borrowing in previous CYL incarnations which were based on absolutely nothing from the actual game.

I'm not arguing that, especially since IS can do whatever they want. I was just checking the narrative canon from 3H (Claude's character and the danger of transforming in the a black beast.) All the same, I think Dimitri being a dagger unit or a sword unit is more likely down the line than him picking up Failnaught. I actually kind of hope he and Edelgard get some sort of child alts, whether as a dancing duo unit (wielding a dagger) or as separate units (where Edelgard could have a dagger and Dimitri could get a sword. He mentions training with swords when he was a kid a lot in his supports (Catherine, Felix, etc.))

[Othin]

Hmm. If they have Fallen Dimitri as a High Lord with Areadbhar, that could make it possible for his legendary version to do something else. It'd raise the question of what to do with Claude, though.

Alternatively, they could just have legendary Dimitri be him in his berserk state. Which still doesn't answer what happens with Claude.

[SuperNova125]

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

I actually kind of hope he and Edelgard get some sort of child alts, whether as a dancing duo unit (wielding a dagger) or as separate units (where Edelgard could have a dagger and Dimitri could get a sword. He mentions training with swords when he was a kid a lot in his supports (Catherine, Felix, etc.))

I am actually hoping for something like that in the future as well. A dancing duo led by small Dimitri that has the oarth dagger (he is the one with more combat experience as a child and the original owner of the dagger) and supported by small Edelgard that shouts at him to dance properly (like she does in the cutscene). Have their convo mention how they will always remember each other and never fight so that I can have an excuse to cry. 

2 hours ago, Othin said:

Hmm. If they have Fallen Dimitri as a High Lord with Areadbhar, that could make it possible for his legendary version to do something else. It'd raise the question of what to do with Claude, though.

Alternatively, they could just have legendary Dimitri be him in his berserk state. Which still doesn't answer what happens with Claude.

If they follow in Edelgard's footsteps for the legendaries, then it will be Savior King Dimitri as lance infantry with Areadbhar and Atrocity as a B slot. His berserk state is fallen material. I don't know whether I won't or no to have something like this for next year's fallen

Spoiler

Red, Nemesis as he appears at the end of VW 

Blue, Berserk Dimitri with an Areadbhar alt perhaps. 

Green, Hagemon Edelgard as an armored beast 

Colourless, Berserk Rhea. 

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by SuperNova125

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, Mercakete said:

I'm not arguing that, especially since IS can do whatever they want. I was just checking the narrative canon from 3H (Claude's character and the danger of transforming in the a black beast.) All the same, I think Dimitri being a dagger unit or a sword unit is more likely down the line than him picking up Failnaught. I actually kind of hope he and Edelgard get some sort of child alts, whether as a dancing duo unit (wielding a dagger) or as separate units (where Edelgard could have a dagger and Dimitri could get a sword. He mentions training with swords when he was a kid a lot in his supports (Catherine, Felix, etc.))

I made a hypothetical banner once called children playing with knives, which had young Edelgard, young Celica and Path of Radiance Sothe all using daggers.

Though much I'd like to see that, we'd be bringing the total number of Edelgards up to six, assuming we get Hegemon Edelgard at some point. Which, isn't unprecedented number of course, but is a little on the weighty side (and that's assuming they never take an opportunity to throw her in a bathing suit). Edelgard is really the biggest shame when it comes to weapons on this banner. This is our fourth axe Edelgard and our third armored axe Edelgard. This is a character that can literally use any weapon and movement type in game. 😕

Edited August 22, 2020 by Jotari

[Jotari]

  

26 minutes ago, SuperNova125 said:

I am actually hoping for something like that in the future as well. A dancing duo led by small Dimitri that has the oarth dagger (he is the one with more combat experience as a child and the original owner of the dagger) and supported by small Edelgard that shouts at him to dance properly (like she does in the cutscene). Have their convo mention how they will always remember each other and never fight so that I can have an excuse to cry. 

If they follow in Edelgard's footsteps for the legendaries, then it will be Savior King Dimitri as lance infantry with Areadbhar and Atrocity as a B slot. His berserk state is fallen material. I don't know whether I won't or no to have something like this for next year's fallen

  Reveal hidden contents

Red, Nemesis as he appears at the end of VW 

Blue, Berserk Dimitri that doesn't have Areadbhar (he doesn't have it yet). 

Green, Hagemon Edelgard as an armored beast 

Colourless, Berserk Rhea. 

 

And off that note, I really hope Hegemon Edelgard isn't a green unit. Armoured sure, because there's not a whole lot of potential for armoured beasts (or Tomes, which I suspect they might make her), but we already have four green Edelgard's, there's really no need for a fifth when she's using a weapon type that can be any colour.

And while we're talking Three Houses fallen units, I nominate Dedue.

This is a double post because Serenes doesn't know what constitutes a long time.

[Yexin]

28 minutes ago, SuperNova125 said:

If they follow in Edelgard's footsteps for the legendaries, then it will be Savior King Dimitri as lance infantry with Areadbhar and Atrocity as a B slot. His berserk state is fallen material.

 

well, tbh Legendary Robin is a thing, and she's both a Fallen Hero and a Legendary Hero

they could do the same with Dimitri, i honestly wouldn't be upset

[Othin]

35 minutes ago, SuperNova125 said:

If they follow in Edelgard's footsteps for the legendaries, then it will be Savior King Dimitri as lance infantry with Areadbhar and Atrocity as a B slot. His berserk state is fallen material. I don't know whether I won't or no to have something like this for next year's fallen

  Reveal hidden contents

Red, Nemesis as he appears at the end of VW 

Blue, Berserk Dimitri that doesn't have Areadbhar (he doesn't have it yet). 

Green, Hagemon Edelgard as an armored beast 

Colourless, Berserk Rhea. 

 

I've only played Verdant Wind, but as far as I can tell, Dimitri gets Areadbhar before Gronder Field and doesn't stop being berserk until after it, so it seems like there's some overlap. I don't know about hero titles, but a Robin-style "fallen legendary Dimitri" could certainly have Atrocity.

[SuperNova125]

7 minutes ago, Othin said:

I've only played Verdant Wind, but as far as I can tell, Dimitri gets Areadbhar before Gronder Field and doesn't stop being berserk until after it, so it seems like there's some overlap. I don't know about hero titles, but a Robin-style "fallen legendary Dimitri" could certainly have Atrocity.

I played AM quite a while ago and I didn't remember so I now checked the wiki, he gets the lance before Gronder. I simply remembered he didn't have it at the beginning of the time skip. He can have it alongside Atrocity (Julia also had light and Dark). 

20 minutes ago, Jotari said:

  And off that note, I really hope Hegemon Edelgard isn't a green unit. Armoured sure, because there's not a whole lot of potential for armoured beasts (or Tomes, which I suspect they might make her), but we already have four green Edelgard's, there's really no need for a fifth when she's using a weapon type that can be any colour.

And while we're talking Three Houses fallen units, I nominate Dedue.

I really wish the same thing, I won't mind her being armored (though she could pass as a flier and be really unique) but if she is a beast she can be Colourless, a 5th green Edelgard will be disappointing. 

If we have fallen houses Dedue as a  GHB infantry beast (no way they will give us a free 185 BST unit with DC) would be really interesting. 

[Jotari]

6 minutes ago, SuperNova125 said:

I played AM quite a while ago and I didn't remember so I now checked the wiki, he gets the lance before Gronder. I simply remembered he didn't have it at the beginning of the time skip. He can have it alongside Atrocity (Julia also had light and Dark). 

I really wish the same thing, I won't mind her being armored (though she could pass as a flier and be really unique) but if she is a beast she can be Colourless, a 5th green Edelgard will be disappointing. 

If we have fallen houses Dedue as a  GHB infantry beast (no way they will give us a free 185 BST unit with DC) would be really interesting. 

Considering how few units we have out there for potential armoured beasts (there are literally four Lion laguz in the entire canon), I'd much prefer he be a summon unit and someone like Nemesis being the Grand Hero Battle unit. Though of course there's no reason at all for a future fallen heroes banner to be Three Houses exclusive. There's still plenty of fallen heroes out there that could be a GHB (Sumaragi would be the best fallen unit for a GHB to keep those pesky sword infantries out of the summoning pool).

[Othin]

Personally, I want to fill out the remaining beast armor colors, so if we do get Fallen Edelgard as an armored beast, I'd prefer red or blue.

[Etrurian emperor]

A dagger Dimitri would probably work best if it was on Smollmitri. Kid Dimitri could end up as a duo hero with kid Edelgard. They'd be a dancer with a dagger as their weapon. Its a cute little callback to their childhood. 

[Ice Dragon]

19 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Considering how few units we have out there for potential armoured beasts (there are literally four Lion laguz in the entire canon),

There's nothing stopping them from making the dragon tribe into armored beasts, which gives us at least 5 more possible characters.

[Othin]

Just now, Ice Dragon said:

There's nothing stopping them from making the dragon tribe into armored beasts, which gives us at least 5 more possible characters.

5 possible characters, but according to CYL4, the most popular two are around rank 200, the next two are near the bottom of the top 400, and the fifth isn't even in the top 500.

Any of them could hypothetically show up at any point, but I get the impression only Dheginsea and Kurthnaga have much likelihood of showing up anytime soon.