Should Fire Emblem Do Japan Again?

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Just wanted to get a temperature check on this idea. I think Fire Emblem should try again at a Japan-themed setting - mostly because I'm not convinced there was ever an attempt. Hoshido's Japanese-ness is skin deep, at its best. We get one opportunity in Chapter 5 to get a slice of domicile life in the capital city of this country, and a food vendor calls Corrin over to try a traditional Hoshidan delicacy. What does she offer him? Roasted potatoes. A western crop, and not prepared in any recognizably Japanese way. Can you believe this is one of three things I remember from my full playthrough of Birthright? Another is that it's called the 'Kingdom' of Hoshido. What the hell is a Kingdom to the Japanese? Where are the daimyo? Why is a lowly commoner able to support with and marry Ryoma? These princes and princesses are recognized by their divine bloodline, but they are also the shogunate, how does that work? I'm only thinking of this stuff now because modern fire emblem is starting to look at class culture critically. Not always nailing the subject matter, but Fernand and Lorenz are extremely believable depictions of the ruling class. Show us Gaijin how these scenarios would play out in ancient Japan.

The only other slice of Japan is in the samurai class (reskin of the myrmidon), and the ninja classline. And they're paired with pegasus knights, another western myth. And can you believe that the kinshi knight isn't based on anything? Kinshi only borrows the name of a real life eagle, the creature design is totally made up. Surely there is a Japanese mytholigical creature that can serve as a mount? How about a Giant wolf like in Princess Mononoke? Wolves in Japan, and the pegasus in western culture, I think you can draw some parallels there. Servants of the gods, animals that judge who is worthy of saving. Can you ride a Kappa? That shell is a very natural saddle. And I like the idea of a "Cavalier" class that maybe doesn't move any further than an infantry but does go very far up a river, past enemy fortifications. The Kitsune are a good choice of shapeshifter if you want to do Xane again. And regardless of these weird ideas, I don't see why regular cavaliers needed to be excluded in the first place. They rode horses in Japan too. Also I wanna see their serpentine version of a dragon showing up as this game's manaketes, and as the evil dragon god final boss.

Now, I will concede that perhaps the reason why it took so long to make an attempt in the first place is because "doing Japan" is kind of a rote idea. Fire Emblem is made by Japanese developers, who have spent their lives surrounded by low-rent and high quality depictions of their own culture. Why add on to the pile? I mean there's a reason why JRPGs have seldom moved on from western-focused fantasy and/or western Sci-fi - it's unique! It's like how Star Wars or the Magnificent Seven caught on so well in the West, we don't know the things they're ripping off so it's all new to us.

[Acacia Sgt]

8 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

We get one opportunity in Chapter 5 to get a slice of domicile life in the capital city of this country, and a food vendor calls Corrin over to try a traditional Hoshidan delicacy. What does she offer him? Roasted potatoes. A western crop, and not prepared in any recognizably Japanese way. Can you believe this is one of three things I remember from my full playthrough of Birthright?

I'm gonna guess they were roasted sweet potatoes, which are a popular food for Japan. Granted, it took until the early seventeenth century for the crop to reach Japan itself, but considering it became a popular backup option for rice (and rice harvest failures), they were quick to adopt it and grow as much of it. Hence, Hoshido also gets to have its (sweet) potatoes.

8 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Another is that it's called the 'Kingdom' of Hoshido. What the hell is a Kingdom to the Japanese? Where are the daimyo? Why is a lowly commoner able to support with and marry Ryoma? These princes and princesses are recognized by their divine bloodline, but they are also the shogunate, how does that work? I'm only thinking of this stuff now because modern fire emblem is starting to look at class culture critically. Not always nailing the subject matter, but Fernand and Lorenz are extremely believable depictions of the ruling class. Show us Gaijin how these scenarios would play out in ancient Japan.

I wonder how much this is a job of localization. Since the 国 in 白夜王国 (Hoshido's Japanese name) can just mean country or nation. Do the Japanese use it in the context of Kingdom for Hoshido or not, I wonder. Perhaps other terms got changed too, or not.

8 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

The only other slice of Japan is in the samurai class (reskin of the myrmidon), and the ninja classline. And they're paired with pegasus knights, another western myth. And can you believe that the kinshi knight isn't based on anything? Kinshi only borrows the name of a real life eagle, the creature design is totally made up. Surely there is a Japanese mytholigical creature that can serve as a mount? How about a Giant wolf like in Princess Mononoke? Wolves in Japan, and the pegasus in western culture, I think you can draw some parallels there. Servants of the gods, animals that judge who is worthy of saving. Can you ride a Kappa? That shell is a very natural saddle. And I like the idea of a "Cavalier" class that maybe doesn't move any further than an infantry but does go very far up a river, past enemy fortifications. The Kitsune are a good choice of shapeshifter if you want to do Xane again. And regardless of these weird ideas, I don't see why regular cavaliers needed to be excluded in the first place. They rode horses in Japan too. Also I wanna see their serpentine version of a dragon showing up as this game's manaketes, and as the evil dragon god final boss.

In Japanese they actually make a distinction of not calling the mounts Pegasus, at least, not with the actual English word. Outside gameplay terms like class names, they instead call them 天馬, or sky-horse. While Pegasus is indeed a Western term, the idea of flying/winged horses is not exclusive to them. China has the Qianlima, which would be the closest reference for Japan to use. But then, for FE as a whole they were aiming deliberately for Western Pegasus.

Back with Fates though, the game does calls the class Sky Knight instead, while Pegasus is reserved for Cipher Pegasus Knight Minerva (DLC that never got out of Japan), which uses the standard "Pegasus Knight" moniker in Japan, complete with using Pegasus in Katakana.

As for Kinshi, the name itself means Golden Kite, and is taken from a story about one of Japan's first emperors. So perhaps this is the tie-in. Kites are birds, which the actual Kinshi of Fates doesn't resemble admittedly, but I guess it is based on a mythical kite anyway, so Fates does its own take of the Golden Kite.

8 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Now, I will concede that perhaps the reason why it took so long to make an attempt in the first place is because "doing Japan" is kind of a rote idea. Fire Emblem is made by Japanese developers, who have spent their lives surrounded by low-rent and high quality depictions of their own culture. Why add on to the pile? I mean there's a reason why JRPGs have seldom moved on from western-focused fantasy and/or western Sci-fi - it's unique! It's like how Star Wars or the Magnificent Seven caught on so well in the West, we don't know the things they're ripping off so it's all new to us.

Overall, I would say it'd be neat to have another Japan-inspired country. Just... without them doing it like Fates, with its "West vs East" symbolism...

[Jotari]

Sure, why not. I wouldn't put it at the head of my list of cultures that Fire Emblem should depict, but it's not like Hoshido's general aesthetic was bad. There's a lot to complain about with Fates, but the inherent existence of Hoshido isn't one of them...pretty much everything about how it was written kind of is but the idea itself is sound.

1 hour ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Where are the daimyo?

Kotaro is a daimyo.

Quote

The only other slice of Japan is in the samurai class (reskin of the myrmidon), and the ninja classline. And they're paired with pegasus knights, another western myth. And can you believe that the kinshi knight isn't based on anything? Kinshi only borrows the name of a real life eagle, the creature design is totally made up. Surely there is a Japanese mytholigical creature that can serve as a mount? How about a Giant wolf like in Princess Mononoke? Wolves in Japan, and the pegasus in western culture, I think you can draw some parallels there. Servants of the gods, animals that judge who is worthy of saving. Can you ride a Kappa? That shell is a very natural saddle. And I like the idea of a "Cavalier" class that maybe doesn't move any further than an infantry but does go very far up a river, past enemy fortifications. The Kitsune are a good choice of shapeshifter if you want to do Xane again. And regardless of these weird ideas, I don't see why regular cavaliers needed to be excluded in the first place. They rode horses in Japan too. Also I wanna see their serpentine version of a dragon showing up as this game's manaketes, and as the evil dragon god final boss.

Kinshi aren't based on anything...huh, I actually am surprised by that. It's not like there aren't actual birds in East Asian mythology they could have used. Just call it Ho-oh or Vermillion or something. Though I suppose Vermillion would have had the onus to make them actually red (hmm, good promotion idea if they bring back Kinshi, which I hope they do).

41 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'm gonna guess they were roasted sweet potatoes, which are a popular food for Japan. Granted, it took until the early seventeenth century for the crop to reach Japan itself, but considering it became a popular backup option for rice (and rice harvest failures), they were quick to adopt it and grow as much of it. Hence, Hoshido also gets to have its (sweet) potatoes.

Calling potatoes western is also a bit of a misnomer. Like, it's literally true as they're from the most western part of the world (under traditional east west division), but potatoes are as foreign to medieval Europe as they are medieval Japan. Course that doesn't stop them popping up in practically every western fantasy world because they're the archtypical salt of the earth commoner food. But if fantasy western Europe can have them why not fantasy Japan? 

Quote

Overall, I would say it'd be neat to have another Japan-inspired country. Just... without them doing it like Fates, with its "West vs East" symbolism...

Yes, that is not an aspect I'd be in a hurry to see repeated. Even the idea of "redoing it but better" wouldn't particularly appeal to me. Focus entirely on Japan, or just have fantasy Japan be in the mix alongside a bunch of other nations like Awakening theoretically did it.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

28 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Kinshi aren't based on anything...huh, I actually am surprised by that. It's not like there aren't actual birds in East Asian mythology they could have used. Just call it Ho-oh or Vermillion or something. Though I suppose Vermillion would have had the onus to make them actually red (hmm, good promotion idea if they bring back Kinshi, which I hope they do).

As I've mentioned, it could be to the Golden Kite and Emperor Jimmu. Possibly also why the Kinshi Knight uses bows, since the legend speaks on how the golden kite perched atop his bow. Most artistic interpretations favor to depict the scene.

28 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Calling potatoes western is also a bit of a misnomer. Like, it's literally true as they're from the most western part of the world (under traditional east west division), but potatoes are as foreign to medieval Europe as they are medieval Japan. Course that doesn't stop them popping up in practically every western fantasy world because they're the archtypical salt of the earth commoner food. But if fantasy western Europe can have them why not fantasy Japan? 

More so when "they were brought in from a different part of the world" isn't something that has to happen in the fantasy world to begin with.

28 minutes ago, Jotari said:

Yes, that is not an aspect I'd be in a hurry to see repeated. Even the idea of "redoing it but better" wouldn't particularly appeal to me. Focus entirely on Japan, or just have fantasy Japan be in the mix alongside a bunch of other nations like Awakening theoretically did it.

Indeed. A role more akin to Chon'sin would be a good way to take it.

[Sunwoo]

Sure, why not?

If FE can reuse various European-inspired settings over and over again, no reason they couldn't make another Japan-based country. I'd actually like to see an FE world with a purely Eastern aesthetic. Countries based on China, Korea, and Southeast Asia in addition to Japan. Although if I'm honest I'm kinda scared at how they'd write all those countries considering Japan's relationship with its Asian neighbors is not the best.

[Jotari]

50 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Indeed. A role more akin to Chon'sin would be a good way to take it.

Provided that role actually features the country, unlike Chon'sin and it's alleged existence.

I doubt they'd do it, but if they were to remake Jugdral they could base Isaac off of Japan. It already has the elements of it with the Swordmasters, and it's not like Isaach has a massive amount going for it other than swordmasters that makes it distinct from the rest of Jugdral.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

6 hours ago, Jotari said:

I doubt they'd do it, but if they were to remake Jugdral they could base Isaac off of Japan. It already has the elements of it with the Swordmasters, and it's not like Isaach has a massive amount going for it other than swordmasters that makes it distinct from the rest of Jugdral.

Ah yes, with such clearly Japanese-inspired names as "Larcei" and "Shannan". I wouldn't like it if it's no more than a thin veneer. At least Fates had the commitment to give its Hoshidan characters Japanese-sounding names.

Anyway, I don't think Fates did a ton wrong with Hoshido's inspiration. It wasn't supposed to be "Japan", but rather, a fantasy kingdom with Japanese-inspired elements. Which we see in the weapons, character names, architecture, and "My Castle" resources. It doesn't need to have the same history or political structure as the real-life polity that inspired it. I wouldn't be opposed to another game with more interest in actual world-building trying the Japanese-tinged setting again, but as others have said, it's not at the top of my list.

[Etrurian emperor]

Yeah it should. Fire Emblem taking a break from the classical medieval style is always welcome. Though other cultures like Arabian Nights or Greco-Roman has my preference.

 

9 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

We get one opportunity in Chapter 5 to get a slice of domicile life in the capital city of this country, and a food vendor calls Corrin over to try a traditional Hoshidan delicacy. What does she offer him? Roasted potatoes. A western crop, and not prepared in any recognizably Japanese way. 

I think this is relevant

 

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Ah yes, with such clearly Japanese-inspired names as "Larcei" and "Shannan". I wouldn't like it if it's no more than a thin veneer. At least Fates had the commitment to give its Hoshidan characters Japanese-sounding names.

I would not at all object to a fantasy Japan where everyone inexplicably has an Irish name XD

[Acacia Sgt]

Jugdral is too Gaelic and Norse to suddenly turn one of its countries into a Japan-expy.

This should be done for a new game, I'd say.

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

I would not at all object to a fantasy Japan where everyone inexplicably has an Irish name XD

Could be a funny mishmash, but would the proper nouns (i.e. places) sound Japanese, or Irish? How about the weapon types (i.e. kanabos, or shilleleghs)? Any decision would require awkwardly balancing one with the other.

1 hour ago, Etrurian emperor said:

Though other cultures like Arabian Nights or Greco-Roman has my preference.

Wasn't Archanea inspired by Greco-Roman cultures? Like, the first Lord is literally named "Mars", and he dressed for a warm climate.

[Etrurian emperor]

59 minutes ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Wasn't Archanea inspired by Greco-Roman cultures? Like, the first Lord is literally named "Mars", and he dressed for a warm climate.

Lightly. It was still medieval but with a light Greco-Roman flair to it. 

[Acacia Sgt]

Interestingly enough, thanks to the Ancient Letters introduced in Awakening and their usage in SoV, there's a prevalent use of Latin and Greek in Marth and Alm's era.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

3 hours ago, Etrurian emperor said:

I think this is relevant

This hilarious video is a rare instance I've seen somebody bold enough to call out DQ11 for its music. Props for that.

Btw if it's not clear to everybody, I'm not trying to be a historical stickler about potatoes. I am aware that Fire Emblem isn't Assassin's Creed or any other game that explicitly tries to recreate accurate depictions of the real world. But when it's time for Corrin to get his (literal) first taste of Japan, and he gets potatoes instead, it demonstrates an unwillingness to try. I would not be upset if he were handed a sticky sweet rice ball. I'm not even going to look up if those were around hundreds of years ago because the very first generic answer you can come up with would still be an improvement by virtue of being something you could imagine Corrin has never tasted. He should have been handed pocky. That would at least get a laugh out of me. 

11 hours ago, Jotari said:

Kotaro is a daimyo.

Who?

*looks it up* okay. You got me there. More of that in the next attempt, please. 

[Acacia Sgt]

7 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Btw if it's not clear to everybody, I'm not trying to be a historical stickler about potatoes. I am aware that Fire Emblem isn't Assassin's Creed or any other game that explicitly tries to recreate accurate depictions of the real world. But when it's time for Corrin to get his (literal) first taste of Japan, and he gets potatoes instead, it demonstrates an unwillingness to try. I would not be upset if he were handed a sticky sweet rice ball. I'm not even going to look up if those were around hundreds of years ago because the very first generic answer you can come up with would still be an improvement by virtue of being something you could imagine Corrin has never tasted. He should have been handed pocky. That would at least get a laugh out of me. 

Again, sweet potatoes. Japan staple even if it's not native.

Would you think there'd be over at Nohr?

Edited July 17, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[Zapp Branniglenn]

3 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Again, sweet potatoes. Japan staple even if it's not native.

Name me a single country that doesn't serve sweet potatoes. Is KFC also a Japan staple? They have it every christmas.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Zapp Branniglenn

[Acacia Sgt]

19 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Name me a single country that doesn't serve sweet potatoes. Is KFC also a Japan staple? They have it every christmas.

Did fried chicken became a vital substitute for rice during bad harvests?

Was fried chicken sponsored by the Tokugawa Shogunate for at least a century? To the point there's actually monuments about it?

Was fried chicken grown in one of the Shogun's private gardens?

Point is, Japan considers the sweet potato a part of their identity, even if it's only been around there for ~400 years. As such, it comes to no surprise they'd incorporate it for fantasy portrayals of their own homeland. Hoshido included.

It also helps that it happened far back enough to not be considered a modern occurrence, and thus acceptable for pre-modern fantasy.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 hour ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Point is, Japan considers the sweet potato a part of their identity, even if it's only been around there for ~400 years.

That is fascinating. But Corrin was not handed a sweet potato.

The correct answer to the KFC question is yes, by the way. 

[Acacia Sgt]

44 minutes ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

That is fascinating. But Corrin was not handed a sweet potato.

The correct answer to the KFC question is yes, by the way. 

We'd have to check the Japanese script, then. Because considering all the changes Fates did, dropping sweet potatoes to regular potatoes could be a thing.

But without the historical angle sweet potatoes have, and the relevancy to pre-modern fantasy. Hence why I brought up some highlights of sweet potatoes' centuries long history in Japan.

---

Okay, found the relevant line:

あらあら、そこのお兄さん！　どうだい、
焼きたてのお芋でも一つ。

DeepL gives sweet potato, but Google Translate only potato. Roasted/Baked Sweet Potato is 焼き芋 (which I bolded in the text), but the problem here is that they're split up in the sentence, with 焼き the roasted/baked part, while 芋 could be just Potato, so it could go either way. But since 焼き芋 is specifically about sweet potatoes, despite the sweet part not really being there, then this could actually be what the text is referring about, split up or not.

It'd have to be if being split up is relevant to rule it out as sweet potatoes, despite the sentence being effectively about 焼き芋.

If it is still Roasted/Baked Sweet Potatoes even if split up, then that could explain why localization went for regular potatoes. They saw the Kanji for potato alone, and failed to recognized the context of having the roasted/baked part in the same sentence.

Edited July 17, 2022 by Acacia Sgt

[SnowFire]

15 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Why is a lowly commoner able to support with and marry Ryoma? These princes and princesses are recognized by their divine bloodline, but they are also the shogunate, how does that work? I'm only thinking of this stuff now because modern fire emblem is starting to look at class culture critically. Not always nailing the subject matter, but Fernand and Lorenz are extremely believable depictions of the ruling class. Show us Gaijin how these scenarios would play out in ancient Japan.

There's a continuum between "really attempting to be semi-accurate" (Expeditions: Rome is a rare SRPG that tries this, I guess?  For all that there's a long ranty post out there describing what it didn't get right) and "skin-deep flavor, this is mostly a custom setting that happens to borrow a few terms."  I suspect that things like a commoner being able to marry Ryoma is one of the absolute *last* things that would be adjusted as the realism-o-meter is increased, though, only done for truly hardcore realistic attempts.  For starters, it's not an ironclad rule; especially if there's a recent war that can reshuffle the deck.  Toyotomi Hideyoshi was essentially a nobody (his father was an ashigaru, a foot soldier) who rose in status by being Nobunaga's right-hand man and successor; his humble birth meant he didn't *directly* take a rulership title, but settled for the title of "Taiko" (regent).  His experience shows it can be done; he both arranged an adoption into a more prestigious clan (this can happen as an adult, after all) as well as got some court propagandists to make up some BS claims of very noble great grandparents hiding in his family tree which was only discovered recently (hey, this sounds familiar, like half of all fantasy novels where the commoner finds out he's actually King Arthur's descendent or something).  So if anything, even if we were in hardcore realism mode, the problem isn't so much marrying a commoner, but not including some flavor text about how Honored General Mozu was found to secretly descend from the Dawn Dragon's cousin or something by expert genealogists, and her valorous deeds in the war proved her true noble heritage which Lord Ryoma recognized.  That said, if we move the realism-o-meter down at all, then surely things like modern expectations on romance are among the first things to "upgrade" about stories set in the past.  Modern audiences aren't super-interested in arranged marriages of 13 year-olds and the like, but do want to imagine marrying a prince / princess who is Just Like Us But With More Status / Money.  (It's worth considering that A Song of Ice & Fire, an example of a work "realistic" enough to at least include the arranged marriages of kids as part of the late medieval-ish setting, also immediately follows it up with the arranged husband's death as well as that of the child.)  Plus, FE wants to be a customizable anime soap opera usually, which means actually allowing customization.  It's worth noting that even when there are plot-set relationships - Echoes most notably as a remake of an older game - the game does not for a second attempt to sell Alm - Celica as a political marriage.  It wants you to think that these are two childhood friends madly in love, they'd have gotten together no matter what, and it's a happy coincidental side effect that their marriage creates the One Kingdom of Valentia.

Basically, it's an element you could include, but it'd be a sufficiently different enough feel that we're in "Fire Emblem spinoff" territory like Tokyo Mirage Sessions.  "You must marry a noble" is not really the core stance of the franchise.

[AnonymousSpeed]

2 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Name me a single country that doesn't serve sweet potatoes. Is KFC also a Japan staple? They have it every christmas.

Name me a single country that doesn't serve rice. Heck, down here in the south, we eat tons of rice. Dirty rice, fried rice, white on rice, rice and red beans-

2 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

To the point there's actually monuments about it?

>Japan has fried chicken monuments

I am so proud. I am, in fact, inspired.

Never mind, I misread that. Nonetheless, you are very wise about this subject, and I am still inspired.

5 hours ago, Jotari said:

I would not at all object to a fantasy Japan where everyone inexplicably has an Irish name XD

"Dangnabbit, Feardorcha! Your sub-par katana cleanin' brings a whole mess o' dishonor to your family!"

Edited July 17, 2022 by AnonymousSpeed

[Sunwoo]

Despite never having played Genealogy, I went through a phase when I was really into Irish history and mythology and so I was able to recognize quite a bit of the references that are in Genealogy and Thracia. The Norse elements interwoven into the Irish also made plenty of sense to me, I'm pretty sure the two cultures interacted quite a bit in their history. There are some games in which the real-life cultural references are baked very deeply into the world so you can't ignore it (like in Fates and Heroes and even 3H) while other continents are a bit harder to figure out (what real life culture is Tellius even based on anyway). But Genealogy is pretty heavily Irish and Norse, so Isaach turning Japanese would be odd.

One thing I was salty about regarding Fates' localization was Hinoka saying at the end of Conquest that she would've passed on the throne to Takumi, like it would've been hers to pass down to begin with. The Japanese version, if I am not remembering incorrectly, had Hinoka and Sakura behind their brothers in line for the throne. Which makes sense for fantasy Japan, since even in modern Japan I'm pretty sure a daughter of the emperor would not only be behind her brother but actually can't be empress at all. Why they changed it for the English version, I will never know. Unless it was literally just for "PC reasons".

Actually, while we're on that topic, one thing I'd be interested in seeing for a new continent is how different cultures may accept or not accept certain rulers and maybe that could be the root of conflict in the game. One thing that all the FE games kinda suffer from is that their, uh, opinions on women in power are kind of the same within each continent? Like ... Archanea and Genealogy, which were developed a long time ago, made it very difficult for female characters to inherit anything. Heck, whoever Nyna's husband would've been the king of her country, right? Meanwhile all the continents from recent games, from Tellius onwards, operate on birth order and proximity to the current ruler. So, Elincia's husband would not be king and Tellius even has a country that's been ruled by women for centuries.

Wouldn't it be interesting if a new continent's opinion on women in power weren't all at the same place, like how it is in reality? Like ... we could have a world where a female ruler from a country that's more or less gender equal comes to power and you get war from one of their neighbors, a culture that doesn't believe women should be in power at all. Or something like that.

[SnowFire]

3 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Which makes sense for fantasy Japan, since even in modern Japan I'm pretty sure a daughter of the emperor would not only be behind her brother but actually can't be empress at all. Why they changed it for the English version, I will never know. Unless it was literally just for "PC reasons".

Yes and no.  The recent change was in the late 1800s when women were *excluded* from being empresses, so if we're being hardcore realistic, old Japan would find an Empress *more* plausible rather than less plausible.  That said, while women *could* become Emperor, unlike, say, France where a female queen is just not a thing...  it was essentially on terms of either them being an Empress consort already (i.e. the Emperor died and his wife will rule until the male kids are of age, which is fine because she's speaking for her dead husband's authority - this is what actually seems to happen in Hoshido w/ Mikoto, for example), or of them remaining "pure" = being a man.  Yeah, you can see a mild echo of this in the Virgin Queen Elizabeth in England - it was important to be unmarried because *obviously* if the Queen / Empress married then she'd be subject to her husband, but the ruler is subject to nobody, so clearly that can't be allowed to happen.  Remaining unmarried and childless would also ensure a succession dispute wouldn't happen with the other relatives.  So yeah, a female Empress could happen even in a "realistic" fantasy Japan, but it's mixed in with some IMO very toxic ideas you still see around (e.g. K-Pop / J-Pop fans going bananas if their favorite singer dates someone or has a personal life, they have to remain PURE and focused on the job), so I almost wouldn't bother.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_imperial_succession_debate is a good read if you're curious about the more recent dispute. 

Also, of all things, the game Dishonored explores this trope, but in a very strange way.  

Spoiler

There's an Empress in Dishonored who seems to have lots of power and rules her city, BUT the one thing she doesn't seem to have power on is her choice of consort?  It's a plot point not revealed until much later that Corvo, Our Hero, was basically her secret paramour and the father of her child, but for whatever dumb societal reason, they couldn't actually make this relationship public or get married.  Not sure if the public was told that her daughter was a miraculous virgin birth or what.

3 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

Wouldn't it be interesting if a new continent's opinion on women in power weren't all at the same place, like how it is in reality? Like ... we could have a world where a female ruler from a country that's more or less gender equal comes to power and you get war from one of their neighbors, a culture that doesn't believe women should be in power at all. Or something like that.

Maybe.  As a historical exercise, it's interesting.  On the other hand, it essentially means rehashing old fights.  Remember, if you have such a system, then you need to have nice, reasonable people defending it as the Just Order of Things as they were brought up that way.  I can see people not wanting to fight that out again in their fun escapism game.

Edited July 18, 2022 by SnowFire

[Jotari]

11 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Could be a funny mishmash, but would the proper nouns (i.e. places) sound Japanese, or Irish? How about the weapon types (i.e. kanabos, or shilleleghs)? Any decision would require awkwardly balancing one with the other.

Wasn't Archanea inspired by Greco-Roman cultures? Like, the first Lord is literally named "Mars", and he dressed for a warm climate.

I wonder if the arena would have been a standard part of the series if not for that early Greco Roman flair.

9 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Who?

*looks it up* okay. You got me there. More of that in the next attempt, please. 

You forgot the only decent antagonist in Fates!

9 hours ago, Zapp Branniglenn said:

This hilarious video is a rare instance I've seen somebody bold enough to call out DQ11 for its music. Props for that.

 

Kilian is hilarious in general. I'd definitely check out his other stuff.

8 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

We'd have to check the Japanese script, then. Because considering all the changes Fates did, dropping sweet potatoes to regular potatoes could be a thing.

But without the historical angle sweet potatoes have, and the relevancy to pre-modern fantasy. Hence why I brought up some highlights of sweet potatoes' centuries long history in Japan.

---

Okay, found the relevant line:

あらあら、そこのお兄さん！　どうだい、
焼きたてのお芋でも一つ。

DeepL gives sweet potato, but Google Translate only potato. Roasted/Baked Sweet Potato is 焼き芋 (which I bolded in the text), but the problem here is that they're split up in the sentence, with 焼き the roasted/baked part, while 芋 could be just Potato, so it could go either way. But since 焼き芋 is specifically about sweet potatoes, despite the sweet part not really being there, then this could actually be what the text is referring about, split up or not.

It'd have to be if being split up is relevant to rule it out as sweet potatoes, despite the sentence being effectively about 焼き芋.

If it is still Roasted/Baked Sweet Potatoes even if split up, then that could explain why localization went for regular potatoes. They saw the Kanji for potato alone, and failed to recognized the context of having the roasted/baked part in the same sentence.

My girlfriend is fluent Japanese speaker and she translated that phrase as "Yo, bro, how about some fried (sweet) potatoes". Potatoes and sweet potatoes are called different things in Japanese.

Edited July 18, 2022 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

10 minutes ago, Jotari said:

My girlfriend is fluent Japanese speaker and she translated that phrase as "Yo, bro, how about some fried (sweet) potatoes"

Okay, no context was given, but... lol it's an old woman saying that Ara Ara, so seeing it translated as bro is... XD

So it is about sweet potatoes then due to 焼き芋? Or why the parenthesis there?

Edited July 18, 2022 by Acacia Sgt