Should Fire Emblem Do Japan Again?

[AnonymousSpeed]

5 minutes ago, Jotari said:

They do that and they'll have a tonne of desert maps to justify a niche over horses. Are you really prepared for that?

MY BODY
IS READY

[Acacia Sgt]

Just saying, but not all deserts are sand dunes.

Look at them camels in the cold Gobi desert of Mongolia. Snow maps for camels!

 

[Jotari]

6 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

Just saying, but not all deserts are sand dunes.

Look at them camels in the cold Gobi desert of Mongolia. Snow maps for camels!

 

Indeed, that's where Camels originally evolved. Not sure snow maps are any better though.

[joevar]

18 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

What about Japan vs Persia? I'd put that game on a cracker. The Virgin Girly Shrine Maiden vs The Chad Jihadist Imam.

I demand camels cavaliers in my Fire Emblem.

interesting choice. altho im not sure the world is ready for that since the ending will involve the persian guy marrying the whole royal family, which will make every woke person lose their hair from knowing it. but which era of persia are we talking here? since  it seems many people mistaking persian empire equivalent to one of Islamic empire just because its situated where it is. while the actual Persian Empire are shaped by Zoroastrianism and possibly some Judaism iirc. 

 

13 hours ago, Jotari said:

They do that and they'll have a tonne of desert maps to justify a niche over horses. Are you really prepared for that?

people been ready to take camel on combat since Metal Slug showed us riding camel wih guns is way cooler than riding a miltary car

this should be a branch of cavalier promotion already. if pegasus can promote to griffin, i say horse into camel should be a thing too

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

17 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

17 hours ago, Jotari said:

They do that and they'll have a tonne of desert maps to justify a niche over horses. Are you really prepared for that?

MY BODY
IS READY

it´s a bird it´s a plane its a wyvern with a handaxe

 

 

Rhino Riders.

Elephant Enjoyers?

Hippo Hobos!

[Shanty Pete's 1st Mate]

22 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

What about Japan vs Persia? I'd put that game on a cracker. The Virgin Girly Shrine Maiden vs The Chad Jihadist Imam.

I demand camels cavaliers in my Fire Emblem.

Finally, a localization for Fire Emblem: Descent of Jihad.

17 hours ago, Jotari said:

They do that and they'll have a tonne of desert maps to justify a niche over horses. Are you really prepared for that?

More desert maps means more hidden treasure. I'll take more overpowered and expensive tools, thank you very much!

[AnonymousSpeed]

10 hours ago, joevar said:

interesting choice. altho im not sure the world is ready for that since the ending will involve the persian guy marrying the whole royal family, which will make every woke person lose their hair from knowing it.

It is called a harem and it is part of his culture.

10 hours ago, joevar said:

but which era of persia are we talking here? since  it seems many people mistaking persian empire equivalent to one of Islamic empire just because its situated where it is. while the actual Persian Empire are shaped by Zoroastrianism and possibly some Judaism iirc.

"Persian Empire" can refer to the Zoroastrian Acheamenid, Parthian, and Sassanid empires. However, it could also refer to various dynasties following the Islamic conquests ruling in modern-day Iran, such as the Safavids. Muslim Persia is the period of the regions history I was specifically referring to, though you could just as easily (and perhaps this would be a better idea) draw on more Arabic empires.

7 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

it´s a bird it´s a plane its a wyvern with a handaxe

It's fly-skipping every map in the game like you were going to do anyway!

7 hours ago, Imuabicus said:

Rhino Riders.

Elephant Enjoyers?

Hippo Hobos!

Elephant riders would be a fun way to add playable units in the style of monsters from Three Houses.

6 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

Finally, a localization for Fire Emblem: Descent of Jihad.

 

6 hours ago, Shanty Pete's 1st Mate said:

More desert maps means more hidden treasure. I'll take more overpowered and expensive tools, thank you very much!

Expensive tools? More like explosive tools.

[Jotari]

11 hours ago, joevar said:

interesting choice. altho im not sure the world is ready for that since the ending will involve the persian guy marrying the whole royal family, which will make every woke person lose their hair from knowing it. but which era of persia are we talking here? since  it seems many people mistaking persian empire equivalent to one of Islamic empire just because its situated where it is. while the actual Persian Empire are shaped by Zoroastrianism and possibly some Judaism iirc. 

I thought most layman just associated Persia as those guys the Greeks fought ages and ages ago and aren't aware that it still exists.

11 hours ago, joevar said:

people been ready to take camel on combat since Metal Slug showed us riding camel wih guns is way cooler than riding a miltary car

this should be a branch of cavalier promotion already. if pegasus can promote to griffin, i say horse into camel should be a thing too

Can Camel promote to pegasus?

[joevar]

1 hour ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

"Persian Empire" can refer to the Zoroastrian Acheamenid, Parthian, and Sassanid empires. However, it could also refer to various dynasties following the Islamic conquests ruling in modern-day Iran, such as the Safavids. Muslim Persia is the period of the regions history I was specifically referring to, though you could just as easily (and perhaps this would be a better idea) draw on more Arabic empires.

well im not historian, so i dont know they still refer themselves as "persian empire" after islamic conquest. but  if we're talking arabic empire then not inserting camel would be a crime. 

why not just mix arabic-persia-india? not only camel, we also got elephant, and donkey. so cavalier emblem wont be so boring anymore. 

32 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I thought most layman just associated Persia as those guys the Greeks fought ages and ages ago and aren't aware that it still exists.

dunno how true is that. but i made that comment since Anonymousspeed refer it with word jihad and imam. which only relevant if we're talking later era persia, not the an empire literally named persian empire that afaik last longer before that.

persian era that similar to Prince of Persia from ubisoft seems fitting against the usual european themed FE nation.

[Interdimensional Observer]

3 hours ago, joevar said:

well im not historian, so i dont know they still refer themselves as "persian empire" after islamic conquest. but  if we're talking arabic empire then not inserting camel would be a crime. 

Because Persians aren't ethnically nor linguistically Arabs? I do hope you aren't making that misconception. Sure they adopted Islam, but they're still not Arab. To say the Persians became Arab with Islam, would be like saying the Classical Greeks and Romans became ethnically Jewish when they went from Zeus to the Abrahamic God.

The language spoken by modern Iranians is called Farsi, after the region called Fars, which has also been transliterated as Pars, or Persis, or Persia. Arabic is a language of the Semitic family like Hebrew, Farsi is from the Indo-Iranian subgroup of the Indo-European language family. Farsi is the language's endonym, which indicates there is still some sense of historical connection that goes back to the days of Cyrus within the country.

16 hours ago, joevar said:

t seems many people mistaking persian empire equivalent to one of Islamic empire just because its situated where it is. while the actual Persian Empire are shaped by Zoroastrianism and possibly some Judaism iirc.

Zoroastrianism does not seem to have been endorsed as a state religion the Achaemenid Empire. The monarchs made some personal praise of it, and the religion was popular in the period. But, was Zoroastrianism fully backed, regulated, and evangelized by the Achaemenid state? Not so sure. The Seleucids were Greek, so they were Olympians with a syncretic touch that tolerated the various local deities and sometimes conflated them with the Greek gods. The Parthians (rival of the Roman Empire before the decline began) were natives, with a stronger bond to Zoroastrianism, and yet, full governmental endorsement? Still not entirely certain of that.

The Sassanian/Sassanid Empire totally was "I ❤️ Ahura Mazda" and "Zoroaster is My Husbando!" though. No doubts about it, they adopted Zoroastrianism as their state religion, it's a fact. They were also anti-Christianity, or tolerant yet suspicious of it, since the Sassanids's powerful rival was the Eastern Roman/Byzantine Empire. Christians could, whenever Constantinople was giving Ctesiphon a beatdown, be scapegoated as internal enemies helping the external threat. (Although a thriving eastern Christian minority community did continue in Sassanian Persia.)

It is the case that Persia got drubbed really badly when those Arabs who they knew of -and sometimes hired to help fight the Romans (the Byzantines did the same against Persia)- came surging out of the Arabian peninsula with a new religion driving them forward. The historical events before the Muslims began conquering had been something of a rollercoaster of ups and downs, triumphant glories and humiliating crises, for both the Eastern Roman and Sassanid Empires. The two empires were fatigued and vulnerable to the zealous attack nobody seriously could have expected. It is also the case that after the Sassanids collapsed, that Persia didn't become a major independent power again until the Safavids, one of the three great Early Modern "Gunpowder Empires" of the Islamic world, sandwiched between the Ottomans to the west and the Mughals to the east.

Nonetheless, Islamic Persia is still Persia, religion and its related cultural aspects aren't the sole defining feature of being Persian. It has been more than 1300 years since the last pre-Islamic Persian empire fell, so I realistically wouldn't say the enduring bonds are super-strong, only that they exist. The Byzantines might have endured much longer than their Zoroastrian rivals against the Muslim onslaught, but I have my doubts that, due to ethnic migrations, that the people of modern Turkey/Anatolia have much if any sense of connection to the Eastern Roman Empire.

Edited August 23, 2022 by Interdimensional Observer

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, joevar said:

well im not historian, so i dont know they still refer themselves as "persian empire" after islamic conquest. but  if we're talking arabic empire then not inserting camel would be a crime. 

why not just mix arabic-persia-india? not only camel, we also got elephant, and donkey. so cavalier emblem wont be so boring anymore. 

dunno how true is that. but i made that comment since Anonymousspeed refer it with word jihad and imam. which only relevant if we're talking later era persia, not the an empire literally named persian empire that afaik last longer before that.

persian era that similar to Prince of Persia from ubisoft seems fitting against the usual european themed FE nation.

They never referred to themselves as the Persian Empire. That's just what the Europeans called them. They've always been Iran to themselves.

[joevar]

37 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Because Persians aren't ethnically nor linguistically Arabs? I do hope you aren't making that misconception. Sure they adopted Islam, but they're still not Arab. To say the Persians became Arab with Islam, would be like saying the Classical Greeks and Romans became ethnically Jewish when they went from Zeus to the Abrahamic God.

nope. you're pointing the wrong person here. might want to check why im talking like that , since way back from anonymousspeed response from one page ago.

since im sure some or maybe lots of context in the conversation was lost here that i became the villain guy instead 

31 minutes ago, Jotari said:

They never referred to themselves as the Persian Empire. That's just what the Europeans called them. They've always been Iran to themselves.

i see. either way, i would rather see nation in FE based on a mix of culture rather than one obvious culture like Hoshido from fates.  whether that will include japan again or not

[Jotari]

27 minutes ago, joevar said:

nope. you're pointing the wrong person here. might want to check why im talking like that , since way back from anonymousspeed response from one page ago.

since im sure some or maybe lots of context in the conversation was lost here that i became the villain guy instead 

i see. either way, i would rather see nation in FE based on a mix of culture rather than one obvious culture like Hoshido from fates.  whether that will include japan again or not

A mix is probably the best thing, I agree. While Fire Emblelm might be boiler plate Medieval Fantasy, but boiler plate Medieval Fantasy is a pretty large mix of cultures. Goblins, trolls and elves are the most basic of fantasy elements and all come from distinct cultures, being British, Scandinavian and Germanic respectively (and all fantasy settings have post medieval potatoes, as popped up recently in...some thread, I can't remember where). Though Fire Emblem has never went that cliched with its fantasy worlds, even looking at Fire Emblem alone you see a lot of pre-European Greco Roman inspirations what with the pegasi and coliseums and the like. So if they were to do Japan again and throw in some Chinese or Korean elements then, well, great. Those cultures already borrow heavily from each other just like the European ones so some pandas riders in the mix wouldn't bother me, personally. Though I expect it would bother some people who think of it as racist (I recall Ninja Pandas in some world of Warcraft Expansion upset some people somewhere at some time?), but if it's the Japanese themselves doing it then there's few fingers to point.

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 hours ago, joevar said:

nope. you're pointing the wrong person here. might want to check why im talking like that , since way back from anonymousspeed response from one page ago.

since im sure some or maybe lots of context in the conversation was lost here that i became the villain guy instead 

Sorry!😅 I merely needed to clarify that big mistake if anyone was making it.

After typing that, I was reminded that Nowruz is still celebrated in Iran. An ancient spring holiday that does have some Zoroastrian connections, so there is a long-held pre-Islamic tie right there.

[Metal Flash]

I`m not super knowledgable about Persia/Iran aside from a bit about the Achemenid, Parthian and Sassanid Empires,  I would be all for a FE kingdom inspired by Ancient Persia to be a thing. 

Back to the topic at hand, I also want to see more unique eastern style classes. Now I sadly don`t know much about warriors unique to Asia, but I am sure they could find some examples.

[AnonymousSpeed]

On 8/23/2022 at 1:34 AM, Interdimensional Observer said:

To say the Persians became Arab with Islam, would be like saying the Classical Greeks and Romans became ethnically Jewish when they went from Zeus to the Abrahamic God.

>Grafted In Christians have entered the chat

With the other notable difference being that, in Islam, the official language of God is Arabic.

Serious ethnography goin' on in these posts.

Edited August 25, 2022 by AnonymousSpeed

[Capt. Fargus]

On 7/17/2022 at 12:10 AM, Zapp Branniglenn said:

Just wanted to get a temperature check on this idea. I think Fire Emblem should try again at a Japan-themed setting - mostly because I'm not convinced there was ever an attempt. Hoshido's Japanese-ness is skin deep, at its best. We get one opportunity in Chapter 5 to get a slice of domicile life in the capital city of this country, and a food vendor calls Corrin over to try a traditional Hoshidan delicacy. What does she offer him? Roasted potatoes. A western crop, and not prepared in any recognizably Japanese way. Can you believe this is one of three things I remember from my full playthrough of Birthright? Another is that it's called the 'Kingdom' of Hoshido. What the hell is a Kingdom to the Japanese? Where are the daimyo? Why is a lowly commoner able to support with and marry Ryoma? These princes and princesses are recognized by their divine bloodline, but they are also the shogunate, how does that work? I'm only thinking of this stuff now because modern fire emblem is starting to look at class culture critically. Not always nailing the subject matter, but Fernand and Lorenz are extremely believable depictions of the ruling class. Show us Gaijin how these scenarios would play out in ancient Japan.

The only other slice of Japan is in the samurai class (reskin of the myrmidon), and the ninja classline. And they're paired with pegasus knights, another western myth. And can you believe that the kinshi knight isn't based on anything? Kinshi only borrows the name of a real life eagle, the creature design is totally made up. Surely there is a Japanese mytholigical creature that can serve as a mount? How about a Giant wolf like in Princess Mononoke? Wolves in Japan, and the pegasus in western culture, I think you can draw some parallels there. Servants of the gods, animals that judge who is worthy of saving. Can you ride a Kappa? That shell is a very natural saddle. And I like the idea of a "Cavalier" class that maybe doesn't move any further than an infantry but does go very far up a river, past enemy fortifications. The Kitsune are a good choice of shapeshifter if you want to do Xane again. And regardless of these weird ideas, I don't see why regular cavaliers needed to be excluded in the first place. They rode horses in Japan too. Also I wanna see their serpentine version of a dragon showing up as this game's manaketes, and as the evil dragon god final boss.

Now, I will concede that perhaps the reason why it took so long to make an attempt in the first place is because "doing Japan" is kind of a rote idea. Fire Emblem is made by Japanese developers, who have spent their lives surrounded by low-rent and high quality depictions of their own culture. Why add on to the pile? I mean there's a reason why JRPGs have seldom moved on from western-focused fantasy and/or western Sci-fi - it's unique! It's like how Star Wars or the Magnificent Seven caught on so well in the West, we don't know the things they're ripping off so it's all new to us.

You talkin bout ...like maybe Samurai era.... like in Onimusha Warlords or something like that?

That sounds like it might be kinda fun Fire Emblem style

[Imuabicus der Fertige]

On 8/23/2022 at 2:23 AM, AnonymousSpeed said:

Elephant riders would be a fun way to add playable units in the style of monsters from Three Houses.

Mhmmmmm, let´s not.

Having a 4 tile unit, with each different tile underlying potentially different terrain effects sounds like a massive pain where the sun don´t shine. Like an extra thick armour knight, just with +3 surface area.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Imuabicus said:

Mhmmmmm, let´s not.

Having a 4 tile unit, with each different tile underlying potentially different terrain effects sounds like a massive pain where the sun don´t shine. Like an extra thick armour knight, just with +3 surface area.

Could be good for like one special map. Maybe the end game.

[SnowFire]

On 8/24/2022 at 6:52 PM, AnonymousSpeed said:

>Grafted In Christians have entered the chat

With the other notable difference being that, in Islam, the official language of God is Arabic.

Yes, but also no.  There was some internal research in the 14th century or so I think (so, centuries after the Islamic conquest), and like 1% of the population could recite a single sura in Arabic.  Reciting the first sura is like the equivalent of the Lord's Prayer in Christianity, one of those things you know if you are even passingly conversant with the religion, so yeah.  (In the same way, despite doing services in Latin, not that many common people knew Latin in medieval / Renaissance Western Europe, it was the language of scholars & monks.  Hence Luther promoting the use of German in services - and by extension "whatever your local language is" - was a big deal.)  The implication isn't that Persians weren't Muslim, but rather that they did everything in Farsi / Persian.  I suspect the proportion of modern Iranians knowing at least a tad bit of Arabic is much higher, but nobody is going to make a Fire Emblem based on the 2022 Islamic Republic of Iran.

It's also worth noting that the Mughal Empire in India was sort of cousins / allies of the Timurid Empire in Iran - when India was ruled by the Mughals, the language & culture of the court was Persian.  Kind of like how the language of the Seleucid Empire's government was Greek, despite the lands they controlled not being in Greece (including Persia for 2 centuries or so!).

[Jotari]

7 hours ago, SnowFire said:

nobody is going to make a Fire Emblem based on the 2022 Islamic Republic of Iran.

Alas we live in the darkest timeline. Somewhere out there Fire Emblem: Restoration of the Shah exists!

[joevar]

8 hours ago, SnowFire said:

The implication isn't that Persians weren't Muslim, but rather that they did everything in Farsi / Persian.  I suspect the proportion of modern Iranians knowing at least a tad bit of Arabic is much higher, but nobody is going to make a Fire Emblem based on the 2022 Islamic Republic of Iran.

It's also worth noting that the Mughal Empire in India was sort of cousins / allies of the Timurid Empire in Iran - when India was ruled by the Mughals, the language & culture of the court was Persian.  Kind of like how the language of the Seleucid Empire's government was Greek, despite the lands they controlled not being in Greece (including Persia for 2 centuries or so!).

all the more reason imo if we want to insert those culture into fire emblem, might as well blend those culture to make a new one since there are some overlapping/influenced culture already. and some Indian nowadays apparently dont like it when Mughals brought into forefront as  Indian heritage/culture/history.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Alas we live in the darkest timeline. Somewhere out there Fire Emblem: Restoration of the Shah exists!

scimitar will be the new steel sword then. while the ninja/assasin equivalent weapon will be chakram. FE need more curved weapon. and more curvy women to trigger more people

the final battle will be against blue Djinn

[Etrurian emperor]

On 8/27/2022 at 9:17 PM, SnowFire said:

Kind of like how the language of the Seleucid Empire's government was Greek, despite the lands they controlled not being in Greece (including Persia for 2 centuries or so!).

The successor kingdoms essentially all being colonial state was always a really interesting aspect about them. It would also be a neat concept for fictional countries to incorporate. 

[AnonymousSpeed]

On 8/27/2022 at 10:27 PM, Jotari said:

Alas we live in the darkest timeline. Somewhere out there Fire Emblem: Restoration of the Shah exists!

Thieves have one hand.

On 8/27/2022 at 11:45 PM, joevar said:

scimitar will be the new steel sword then. while the ninja/assasin equivalent weapon will be chakram. FE need more curved weapon.

Excellent selections.

[Baudshaw]

Not "Ew. No" but I'd rather have them see other settings with medieval histories. China, India, North Africa, the Middle East, and Mesoamerica all have a vast array of medieval history and weapons that could be used to make a new FE game.