I think it's past due for an FE6 appreciation thread

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I understand the Binding Blade has had a bit of a poor reputation over the years. We make fun of Roy's combat ability. Many call it the "worst of GBA era" which is like saying Ringo is "The Worst of the Beatles". Some Kaga purists might even lament the loss of mechanical depth coming off of FE4/5. And with it being one of the seven Japan Only games, the only folks that have given it a chance are the ones with the knowhow and ten minutes to spare to download and patch a ROM. Instead, most modern fire emblem players will tell you they're content to wait for the official remake. Just like FE4. That sucks, for both games. Let's stop talking about this fantasy, unannounced remake and instead talk about what we remember liking most about FE6.

• It's a cute approach for a Fire Emblem Reboot. Look, the franchise just lost its dad. Got booted from home consoles. FE6 needed to be a fresh start in a fresh world. But the attempts at shouting out FE1 are fun to discover for yourself. Most early game units have direct Archanean counterparts in terms of classes, appearance, and stats. They brought back dragons and a toddler manakete girl. Every map is a seize map. You've got the whitewings. You've got a True Ending if you picked up all the macguffin weapons. There's a shop selling infinite stat boosters at the end - not even the Shadow Dragon DS remake got that part right. And look at the first chapter. It's just Talys Island flipped clockwise 90 degrees. Thank god they don't force Roy to visit villages too. Kid's shoes are worn enough as it is. 
• That timeless GBA FE aesthetic. Does this need an intro? I'm not sure I would have become a fan of this series in the mid 2000s if not for FE7's battle animations, and they were born here. The GBA's graphical capabilities are debatably on par with a Super Nintendo and yet I can't imagine a SNES game having such fluid animation. FE3/4/5 have their moments, sure, but FE6 rocks some serious artistic talent. And it's not just appreciation of the swordmaster's afterimages. You've got character portraits that gyrate and move around, adding a physicality to scenes for comedic effect. The chibi versions of character portraits on the map screen. Sachiko Wada is absolutely nailing the vibe of characters at first glance. 
• It's good to iron man. Losing your freshly promoted Rutger to the first Berserker's 20 Hit / 30 Crit  can devastate your chapter 9-12 experience, but other than that, nobody's particularly essential. The game is feeding a lot of great units as it goes on. Especially on Hard Mode where they have even more stats. FE7 is a little like this too, most of the worst additions to your army are in the first half. But everyone from Milady onward is an easy unit to recommend. So don't sweat the early deaths and keep pushing forward.
• Rescue is fun. I don't think I'll ever master what Rescue can do for me on every turn, but attempting to make use of it only makes the game more interesting. In Fire Emblems past, when a unit ends their turn, it's set in stone unless you use a warping staff. But Rescue allows for so many micromanagements - debatably more than Canto since non mounted units can do it in a pinch. Nobody's move is permanent. You can use Rescue to save lives, save turns, get units where they can most contribute. Just you wait, when they bring back Rescue in the next Fire Emblem it's all we'll talk about.

What do YOU like about FE6?  Bonus points if you can do it without dragging down other FE games. I almost succeeded in that regard.

[Etrurian emperor]

I've got a fairly sour opinion on Binding Blade. Its not the game's fault. I expected a ''sequel'' to Blazing Sword while the thing Binding Blade's going for is more Shadow Dragon GBA. That Binding Blade isn't really the follow up to Blazing Sword I wanted as a kid, that Lilina is not Hector, that Pent has been kidnapped by aliens, and that Bern and Zephiel aren't the Black Fang and Nergal isn't something one can blame the game for, especially when none of the things I wanted were even concepts during the game's development. And yet it was a disappointment to find out all the same.

There are things I like about it though. To Niime, the orphan amigo's and Narcian I'm quite attached. Niime's a one of a kind Fire Emblem character. Not a tsundere, dainty damsel or big though gall, but an elderly, foul mouthed and unfriendly dark mage. The orphans make a very good tree amigos with a wholesome dynamic with each other, and Narcien is an excellent starter villain who starts out like a grave threat, only to be the first of the villain's top generals to fall when the heroes have grown in strength. 

Scale is definitely a point in the game's favor. You get to see all of Elibe, which is something Blazing Sword didn't do. Seeing Etruria for real was nice, and the western island suffering from Etrurian colonization was a nice bit of worldbuilding. The maps are also sufficiently big. Cute callbacks(or call forwards) like Laus being essentially the same map is a nice touch too.

Edited July 30, 2023 by Etrurian emperor

[X-Naut]

Here's an important detail more people need to appreciate... it gave us the modern formation screen. For the first time in the series you have real, visible control over where your units start on the map! (save for the fixed deployment characters) For all the places you can accuse FE6 of lacking polish, it also delivered one of the biggest QoL improvements in the series.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

I actually really like Binding Blade's story. It's got its callbacks and similarities to Marth's games, but it has plenty of unique touches that make it distinct.
The cast is another thing I like. It isn't the best in the series and there's a number of "meh" characters, like Barthe, but when it has a strong character, it has a strong character. And there's quite a few of them! I'm a Roy fan and a Lilina fan, yes, but then there's Elffin, Cecilia, Melady, Sue, Douglas, Klein, Perceval, Astolfo, Igrene, Zeiss, Niime, Rutger, Dieck, Sophia, Lugh, Raigh, Hugh, Fae, all characters that I personally think have good backstories and a selection of interesting supports.
That classic GBA-style graphic/art/sprite, as well, is great, and the official art is good.
I'm actually pretty okay with the gameplay, too, for the most part. It has some faults, it isn't as refined as the other two GBA games, but it's still something I enjoy.

[ping]

In addition to what's already been said, I really appreciate the sort of difficulty that FE6 HM provides. I know that many people with complain that it "just throws bigger numbers at you", but... to me, that feels more honest than putting one of thirty-seven different skills randomly on any generic enemy. Relatively simple mechanics, but still challenging gameplay.

I will also say that BinBla's "poor" character balance also allows for a lot of fun by using suboptimal characters, or keep using characters when they are well past their prime. I'll admit that I totally use Milady in every single playthrough, but BinBla absolutely allows for a Wendy training arc, not giving Rutger (or Deke) the first Hero Crest, or a Jahn kill for Marcus, and that's fun.

[ARMADS!!!]

When I started the game I immediately understood why a lot of people say that Binding Blade has a "boring" cast, because I couldn't care less for Wolt, Alan and Lance, Bors,...

 But then the characters you start to get had really grown on me, Melady, the Orphan trio (Raigh is up there as one of my favorite FE characters of all time), Rutger, Clarine, Niime, Zeiss, Igrene, Sophia, Elfin, Perceval, Douglas,... the cast is actually pretty good overall, and is hella underrrated.

 I also like  bunch of the villains such as Narcian, Galle, Murdock, Brunnya, Zephiel, and even some of the less relevant ones like Sigune (althought that might be simply because she's not a recolor of your average "ugly and unimportant boss" and has a pretty cool design instead).

 

 Yeah, one of the things I like the most is the characters, also since my first FE was FE7 and my second one was FE8 I really liked that on FE6 you could get the S rank weapons BEFORE the final chapter (while I know this is not something that started with FE6, it was the first time I experienced it) and that there seem to be no plot holes or inconsistencies in the game (not counting the continuity between FE6 and FE7) unlike FE7 that you have you suspending your disbelief several times (such as watching the villains lose several times over dumb mistakes just because "they're the villains so they have to lose" while in FE6 every time a villain lose it's justified, etc), again as far as I know most FEs are more like FE6 in terms of how well written the plot is, it's just that since it was my second FE after FE7 I could notice the difference and it fell hella good.

 

[Saint Rubenio]

FE6 is kind of a mess, with the horrible promo items situation, the ambush spawns, the infamous throne bonuses, hard mode bonuses wreaking havoc on the unit balance, the worst advisor guy in the entire series... But I do have quite the soft spot for it. It was my second FE, but I never looked back on my first after I tried it. It has one of my favorite casts, some maps I genuinely really like, a good amount of challenge and of course, all the points you bring up. And I love to hate on Merlinus.

A mess it may be, but it's a lovable mess.

2 hours ago, gnip said:

I will also say that BinBla's "poor" character balance also allows for a lot of fun by using suboptimal characters, or keep using characters when they are well past their prime. I'll admit that I totally use Milady in every single playthrough, but BinBla absolutely allows for a Wendy training arc, not giving Rutger (or Deke) the first Hero Crest, or a Jahn kill for Marcus, and that's fun.

You know what they say: When everyone's super, nobody is.

[Capt. Fargus]

Hate the ambush spawns. Like the ability to buy iron weapons between chapters. 

It has its royal pain in the ass moments, like the last chapter in Ilia where you gotta bait the enemies outside or you’ll be overrun in a heartbeat, and that one where you can first recruit Percival... but overall I like it

[KMT4ever]

• Scale of the story: Not only do you go all across the continent, you fight enemies from all nations along the way. Despite Bern being the primary threat you spend most of the campaign fighting their collaborators from other lands, with only occasional flights of wyvern riders as a reminder of their power until you enter Bern itself in a gargantuan battle
• Scale of the maps: While dragging Roy all the way to the seize point is undoubtedly annoying, having these vast spaces to wage war upon does tend to give me a sense of grandness as my units move forward
• Route splits: While I do have my preferred choices, the way FE6 implements two of them without massively changing how events ultimately play out is a very nice way to provide variety to the story. Making them dependent on hidden prior choices isn't great from a gameplay standpoint, but I can see how it would encourage replaying and discussing with friends
• Good ol' GBA art style: Even to this day I'm fond of the sprites and animations
• Bows are useful: With generally tougher enemies and Bern's wyverns popping up all over the place, there's a genuinely good niche for them. Wolt and Dorothy still manage to be bad anyway, but the nomads and snipers are all fun to use

[Jotari]

Binding Blade is a great game for a pretty specific type of player. It might sound elitist of me, but it's a pretty hardcore game. It strips Fire Emblem down to some of its barest fundamentals and then just goes hard on the game design. And, yeah, that's definitely not for everyone. People like fancy mechanics and an easy time of it. But if you do like the challenge then you'll get a lot out of it. And I think overall its reputation is not that bad. There are plenty of people, at least on Serenes, who highly appreciate Binding Blade. I don't want a Binding Blade remake because I already think it's a really great game that still holds up, and any real issues I have with it I can get around by whipping out FEBuilderGBA and modding myself.

And yes, Rescue is a very fun mechanic and its a shame it's been phased out of the series.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Jotari

[Hanes]

I like that it makes you develop unique strategies. Like sometimes it's too much, but other times when you miss, it adds to the strategy of having to figure out how to proceed despite the miss. Could be like by pulling back, or bringing out some stronger inaccurate weapons to make up for the lost damage, etc.

Sometimes it's too much, but other times it makes you think more than just how to solve a puzzle where your hitrate is 100% and the enemies either ORKO you, or you ORKO them.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Hanes

[Capt. Fargus]

13 hours ago, Jotari said:

Binding Blade is a great game for a pretty specific type of player. It might sound elitist of me, but it's a pretty hardcore game. It strips Fire Emblem down to some of its barest fundamentals and then just goes hard on the game design. And, yeah, that's definitely not for everyone. People like fancy mechanics and an easy time of it. But if you do like the challenge then you'll get a lot out of it. And I think overall its reputation is not that bad. There are plenty of people, at least on Serenes, who highly appreciate Binding Blade. I don't want a Binding Blade remake because I already think it's a really great game that still holds up, and any real issues I have with it I can get around by whipping out FEBuilderGBA and modding myself.

I think if somebody was to give any of the GBA games the look of a later system like a PlayStation or Gamecube without changing anything it would be cool IMHO

I like the PS version of the original Final Fantasy for example

13 hours ago, Jotari said:

And yes, Rescue is a very fun mechanic and its a shame it's been phased out of the series.

Well that sucks royally. That really puts thieves at risk if you cant grab em after they steal something from an enemy

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, Capt. Fargus said:

I think if somebody was to give any of the GBA games the look of a later system like a PlayStation or Gamecube without changing anything it would be cool IMHO

I like the PS version of the original Final Fantasy for example

Well that sucks royally. That really puts thieves at risk if you cant grab em after they steal something from an enemy

I'm not sure what you're really saying here. Do you think the GBA Fire Emblem looks bad? Because its animations are some of the most universally praised parts of that era (and the animations of many current Fire Embelm games are some of the most commonly critisized aspects).

[Capt. Fargus]

24 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I'm not sure what you're really saying here. Do you think the GBA Fire Emblem looks bad? Because its animations are some of the most universally praised parts of that era (and the animations of many current Fire Embelm games are some of the most commonly critisized aspects).

No sir, not at all

It’s just a matter of curiosity. I can’t help but wonder if that could do for Fire Emblem what it did for Final Fantasy or Legend of Zelda 

 

[Jotari]

Just now, Capt. Fargus said:

No sir, not at all

It’s just a matter of curiosity. I can’t help but wonder if that could do for Fire Emblem what it did for Final Fantasy or Legend of Zelda 

 

I still don't know what you're really talking about? If what could do? Fire Emblem has has remakes before, in fact they've had more than the legend of Zelda, depending on what one classes as a remake. Do you mean you want to see it in some kind of pixel updated style like the Wonder Swan Final Fantasy or Link's Awakening DX?

[Capt. Fargus]

7 minutes ago, Jotari said:

I still don't know what you're really talking about? If what could do? Fire Emblem has has remakes before, in fact they've had more than the legend of Zelda, depending on what one classes as a remake. Do you mean you want to see it in some kind of pixel updated style like the Wonder Swan Final Fantasy or Link's Awakening DX?

You got me there I’m afraid, since I haven’t played this Wonder Swan. I DID play the Game Boy version of Links Awakening once, but not that DX one so I don’t know what changes if any were made in those besides enhanced graphics.

Pixel updated does sound like what Im trying to describe though.

 

 

 

 

[Use the Falchion]

I'm not the best person to talk about the game since I never completed a playthrough, but I like the characters! 

[gringe]

I love FE6!

Post-FE5, the series had to start somewhere and it's clear that IS reflected a lot on the "issues" of FE6 after its long and troubled development to improve the following games. There are some things I think FE6 in particular does great though (probably have been brought up already but hey).

• Massive and varied cast. Characters like the old woman Niime, mother Juno, straight-up bandit Garrett, etc. are really fresh even today, and it's clear the writers and character designers put a lot of care into the cast. Stat-wise different characters within the same class were clearly meant to have different strengths giving a huge variation to the kind of army you can assemble (even though in practice one character often ends up better than the other).
• Very easy-to-grasp world setting that's built around the game's flow. Each nation was founded by a hero who had a legendary weapon that embodies the nation's culture. You go to each nation and get their legendary weapons before the end of the game. Simple!
• Some of the best challenges in the series, including maybe the greatest hard mode. There's nothing in the series that feels quite as good as making it through chapter 7 unscathed, or saving all the archers and pegasus knights in the Western Isles, or reaching Perceval in chapter 13, or surviving the onslaught in chapter 21.
• Great English localization patch! 😁

Since FE6 was only released in Japan and most people were introduced to it after FE7 and FE8, I guess it's only natural to compare it to what came later, but it's still a great game in its own right.

[AnonymousSpeed]

One of the most interesting parts of FE6 is how it's very clearly supposed to a "re-interpretation" of FE1 (I say "very clearly", but as far as I know this is just a fan-theory which which I've adopted because I like it). I would've been interested to see the series attempt that same idea- build a new game from the ground up using the same basic skeleton and tropes as another game. The franchise has increased its number of explicit references, but the spirit has changed, whereas Roy's journey is in clear parallel to Marth's right down to getting into Melee.

Completely unrelated, but I've heard it said American interest in FE wasn't because of Marth in Melee, but Roy. Sure, Marth is higher tier and is remembered better now, but Roy's design is more appealing to western tastes. Then again, you have to unlock Marth first, so maybe not.

On 8/11/2023 at 12:16 AM, gringe said:

Great English localization patch! 😁

The greatest localization patch in the history of localizations, maybe ever.

[Jotari]

3 hours ago, AnonymousSpeed said:

One of the most interesting parts of FE6 is how it's very clearly supposed to a "re-interpretation" of FE1 (I say "very clearly", but as far as I know this is just a fan-theory which which I've adopted because I like it). I would've been interested to see the series attempt that same idea- build a new game from the ground up using the same basic skeleton and tropes as another game. The franchise has increased its number of explicit references, but the spirit has changed, whereas Roy's journey is in clear parallel to Marth's right down to getting into Melee.

Completely unrelated, but I've heard it said American interest in FE wasn't because of Marth in Melee, but Roy. Sure, Marth is higher tier and is remembered better now, but Roy's design is more appealing to western tastes. Then again, you have to unlock Marth first, so maybe not.

The greatest localization patch in the history of localizations, maybe ever.

It couldn't possibly be better than the Thracia patch, what with it's unnecessary jokes and outright freezing the game if you hover over the wrong unit for too long XD

[ping]

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

It couldn't possibly be better than the Thracia patch, what with it's unnecessary jokes

I'm sure we can convince gringe to add some out-of-nowhere YugiohTAS references. Maybe Merlinus can say "nyeh" every other sentence.

8 hours ago, Jotari said:

and outright freezing the game if you hover over the wrong unit for too long XD

...or maybe we should accept that Thracia has the memiest translation patch. And actually, if we're ranking by memeability, I believe @Saint Rubenio played a Spanish translation that he found very funny. Although if I recall, that was funny rather because the translation was trying to be too literal and ended up clunky as a result..?

[Saint Rubenio]

3 hours ago, gnip said:

actually, if we're ranking by memeability, I believe @Saint Rubenio played a Spanish translation that he found very funny. Although if I recall, that was funny rather because the translation was trying to be too literal and ended up clunky as a result..?

Not quite. The FE1 translation I played was superb. What I found funny about it was that the guy stubbornly refused to follow any official sources. Or unofficial sources, for that matter. While other fanslators follow Heroes names religiously and update their patches to change this or that line because it showed up in Heroes with slightly different wording, this guy translated names, locations and lines as he damn well pleased, ignoring every outside influence and taking only the base game's script and his own criteria into consideration.

He solved the age-long Shiida vs Caeda debate by calling her Theda. He undid the spite change of Jeorge back to George... Then spited it back into Georges. Lawrence was too mundane so Lorenz became Rolence. When he tackled FE2, he translated Boey as Boy, and (my favorite, even in competition with Boy the boy) Mycen as Meißen. Which I later found out is actually more accurate. Dude really did drop the funny German B on his Spanish translation and was right. Heck the thing was called Project Elitist!

He also used Ye Olde Spanish throughout the entire thing. I swear every chapter there was a word I had to google. The most notable example was his usage of an archaic-ass synonym of "died" that doesn't even have an English equivalent for the fallen unit message. It made killing enemies priceless every time. Imagine if every time you killed a generic the game went "Macedonian hath endured their final throes." Something like that.

No clunkiness though. A few typos and a funny rare glitch aside, the translation was super good, way higher effort than I would've expected anyone to dedicate to FE1. That was probably the funniest part, really. He even translated the manual! He took blurry ass pictures of his translated patch to imitate the original, similarly blurry pictures!

Edited August 13, 2023 by Saint Rubenio

[Jotari]

33 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Not quite. The FE1 translation I played was superb. What I found funny about it was that the guy stubbornly refused to follow any official sources. Or unofficial sources, for that matter. While other fanslators follow Heroes names religiously and update their patches to change this or that line because it showed up in Heroes with slightly different wording, this guy translated names, locations and lines as he damn well pleased, ignoring every outside influence and taking only the base game's script and his own criteria into consideration.

He solved the age-long Shiida vs Caeda debate by calling her Theda. He undid the spite change of Jeorge back to George... Then spited it back into Georges. Lawrence was too mundane so Lorenz became Rolence. When he tackled FE2, he translated Boey as Boy, and (my favorite, even in competition with Boy the boy) Mycen as Meißen. Which I later found out is actually more accurate. Dude really did drop the funny German B on his Spanish translation and was right. Heck the thing was called Project Elitist!

He also used Ye Olde Spanish throughout the entire thing. I swear every chapter there was a word I had to google. The most notable example was his usage of an archaic-ass synonym of "died" that doesn't even have an English equivalent for the fallen unit message. It made killing enemies priceless every time. Imagine if every time you killed a generic the game went "Macedonian hath endured their final throes." Something like that.

No clunkiness though. A few typos and a funny rare glitch aside, the translation was super good, way higher effort than I would've expected anyone to dedicate to FE1. That was probably the funniest part, really. He even translated the manual! He took blurry ass pictures of his translated patch to imitate the original, similarly blurry pictures!

To be fair to him, Jeorge was a really weird localization decision. I mean, I'm not entirely against it because it's phoenitcally identical and English's habit of having letters that make completely unintuitive pronunciations is a crime that should be eradicated...but George is still a super common English name that is very rarely spelled with a J.

I expect Fire Emblem's Spanish community is pretty robust. For a long time the most reliable source for Shadow Dragon and New Mystery maps and unit data was a Spanish website.

[Saint Rubenio]

Just now, Jotari said:

To be fair to him, Jeorge was a really weird localization decision. I mean, I'm not entirely against it because it's phoenitcally identical and English's habit of having letters that make completely unintuitive pronunciations is a crime that should be eradicated...but George is still a super common English name that is very rarely spelled with a J.

Jokes aside, Jeorge was a spite change and it looks awful if you're not English. Georges is the French equivalent of George, which actually suits the guy, being a dandy nobleman and all.

Just now, Jotari said:

I expect Fire Emblem's Spanish community is pretty robust. For a long time the most reliable source for Shadow Dragon and New Mystery maps and unit data was a Spanish website.

Not really, to be honest. Aside from these anomalies that are the FE1 and 2 fanslations and a quality FE5 fanslation based on Lil' Manster, FE6 only has a super old patch based on the pre-Gringe English version, FE12 has a barebones translation that requires prying the ROM open and dropping the files in it because the creators apparently couldn't figure out how to create a patch, and FE3 and 4 just have nothing.

The website has also fallen off a bit, they are really slow to update their info, plus the site owner's kind of infamous for his horrendous opinions that he includes in the unit pages and (from what I've heard) for being a bit of a tyrant in his site.

[Jotari]

1 minute ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Jokes aside, Jeorge was a spite change and it looks awful if you're not English. Georges is the French equivalent of George, which actually suits the guy, being a dandy nobleman and all.

Jeorge would be particular bad for Spanish because of the whole J=H thing. It would sound like Huorge.

1 minute ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Not really, to be honest. Aside from these anomalies that are the FE1 and 2 fanslations and a quality FE5 fanslation based on Lil' Manster, FE6 only has a super old patch based on the pre-Gringe English version, FE12 has a barebones translation that requires prying the ROM open and dropping the files in it because the creators apparently couldn't figure out how to create a patch, and FE3 and 4 just have nothing.

The website has also fallen off a bit, they are really slow to update their info, plus the site owner's kind of infamous for his horrendous opinions that he includes in the unit pages and (from what I've heard) for being a bit of a tyrant in his site.

Question is, how does that hold up to stuff like the French or Greek Fire Emblem communities?