To Become an Elitist [Playlogs FE1-5] [currently playing: Genealogy]

[Interdimensional Observer]

On 8/27/2023 at 5:35 AM, Saint Rubenio said:

Truly? I thought FE12 was wildly considered a challenging game. I never got past the start of Book 2. Between the extremely clunky UI, the slowness and the nagging voice saying "almost all your favorites from 12 aren't here" I never could get into a mindset to get far in that game.

For Book 2, playing full aware of the GrowthsSpheres and the recruitable cast, and the maps that lay ahead, I'd say Book 2 under such circumstances is uneven.

• Earlygame has a few chapters with some difficulty, like Hardin at the Bridge.
• Then the midgame is all those Def & Res-ignoring feral dragons, plus maybe a few bandits. HP alone matters for survival, everyone gets 2 maybe 3HKO, and doubling is a breeze.
  • Use the Secret Shop in the desert to buy a few Wyrmslayers and all your non-Bow physical units are plenty capable of chopping down the dragons with ease.
    • Except Draug, Draug is the worst unit, can't use a 'slayer, Def is irrelevant, Javelins in 3 having 20 WT and no negative AS like Genealogy permits means you can't double the dragons with one.
• The return from Anri's Way? Uneven again. Fighting outside on Altea? Easy. Fighting inside Castle Altea? Tricky with the throne room I think. Gra is pathetic. Wolfguard is that quick visit and the map melts away. Outside Pales I forget.
• Now for the endgame. Hardin has some strong physical units, yeah. But really, the main issue is magic. From here on out, FE resorts to "target the far lower durability stat, and siege tomes", the same "trick" used in the lategame of Genealogy and Thracia. It's not exactly fun. The dragon valley brings back the "HP is the only durability stat that matters and Spd is meaningless", except now Tiki exists as something that can tank everything, and the only physical enemies that exist now are some Devil Axe bandits so bulky they require the Lady Sword (maybe Mercurius too?) to ORKO without crits, it's otherwise mages and dragons. Kinda annoying.

Playing totally blind? Well, Mystery is an SNES game, of course it wouldn't be very welcoming. Totally blind Old Mystery Book 2 vs. totally blind New Mystery on either Normal or Hard, I could maybe see the former being regarded as harder. But with plenty of knowledge, Book 2 ought to melt away, except for the bothersome things that can't be sidestepped by 20 in every non-HP stat except Res.

[ping]

So I managed to lose my progress again, for the second time, although I'm really not sure why. Apparently, I never said "yes" when I was asked to save the game after beating a map, even though "yes" is the default option? And I didn't notice because Mesen has this really handy feature to make a save state every time you close it, and I didn't have a reason to reset yet. But then I wanted to restart the map to check the chapter name and, well, the only point in the opening menu was "BEGINNING".

Anyway, I'm a bit too salty to repeat the Wryf arrow eating session right now, so I'll stop playing after chapter 1 for today (and yes, saving does work, I checked after making an emulator save, so it's not an emulator issue). I'll see if maybe "save and continue" didn't work as intended, because I could've sworn that I was just mashing (or holding) A after finishing the map, but my working theory is that I'm just an idiot.

Too bad about Wryf's amazing WLv streak, too. At least Kain got a good first level again, and iirc Sheeda got a Def proc, which also never hurts.

5 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Except Draug, Draug is the worst unit

Oof, poor DOGA. Pretty bad in FE1, at least once more enemies start having non-zero attack speed, between his bad growths and lack of promotion, then bad in FE3 again? At least he has his funny glass cannon reclass options in the DS remake, because Knight!Draug is once again obsolete very fast on the higher difficulties there.

21 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

21 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Everyone in the previous universe died. The bad guys won. Sadge.

Plot twist: Lucina is the main character now. Or maybe it's Lucina's child, at this point.

21 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

¿Que?

The boss's name is, infamously, Hyman.

22 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Now we're talking. We're juul'in now.

Hmm, I guess nobody is calling dibs on the one Manual you get... Maji and Darros can already use practically every axe because Kaga hates axe users and didn't give them any advanced ones (Maji needs +1 WLv for the Devil Axe, but...) (even if I wanted to, his WLv growth is actually decent), Wryf gets a big enough boost after promotion, Sheeda and the Xmas cavs all have very good WLv growths.

[Punished Dayni]

On 8/27/2023 at 3:44 PM, gnip said:

'cause might as well get this out of the way, right? It's not like he's going to be dodging enemies naturally just by playing the game. I'd also like to point out that Wryf gained 4 points of WLv. during this, and literally nothing else, probably just to prove me wrong about how unlikely it would be for him to get to Physic, in the most spiteful way possible.

Wryf-ing on your intentions.

7 minutes ago, gnip said:

So I managed to lose my progress again, for the second time, although I'm really not sure why. Apparently, I never said "yes" when I was asked to save the game after beating a map, even though "yes" is the default option? And I didn't notice because Mesen has this really handy feature to make a save state every time you close it, and I didn't have a reason to reset yet. But then I wanted to restart the map to check the chapter name and, well, the only point in the opening menu was "BEGINNING".

Anyway, I'm a bit too salty to repeat the Wryf arrow eating session right now, so I'll stop playing after chapter 1 for today (and yes, saving does work, I checked after making an emulator save, so it's not an emulator issue). I'll see if maybe "save and continue" didn't work as intended, because I could've sworn that I was just mashing (or holding) A after finishing the map, but my working theory is that I'm just an idiot.

Oh no, that sounds unfortunate.

[Saint Rubenio]

49 minutes ago, gnip said:

So I managed to lose my progress again, for the second time, although I'm really not sure why. Apparently, I never said "yes" when I was asked to save the game after beating a map, even though "yes" is the default option? And I didn't notice because Mesen has this really handy feature to make a save state every time you close it, and I didn't have a reason to reset yet. But then I wanted to restart the map to check the chapter name and, well, the only point in the opening menu was "BEGINNING".

Anyway, I'm a bit too salty to repeat the Wryf arrow eating session right now, so I'll stop playing after chapter 1 for today (and yes, saving does work, I checked after making an emulator save, so it's not an emulator issue). I'll see if maybe "save and continue" didn't work as intended, because I could've sworn that I was just mashing (or holding) A after finishing the map, but my working theory is that I'm just an idiot.

Too bad about Wryf's amazing WLv streak, too. At least Kain got a good first level again, and iirc Sheeda got a Def proc, which also never hurts.

That's... heartbreaking. You owe it to Riff to still use him even if he sucks this time around, like that's just not fair.

[Shaky Jones]

37 minutes ago, gnip said:

So I managed to lose my progress again, for the second time, although I'm really not sure why

Sorry about that. I didn't want Ruben being too happy.

38 minutes ago, gnip said:

Oof, poor DOGA. Pretty bad in FE1, at least once more enemies start having non-zero attack speed, between his bad growths and lack of promotion, then bad in FE3 again?

For FE1: I found him to be decent for a couple of chapters. The base defense helps until you get Bantu, and having swords more or less guarantees that you double against non sword using enemies for a while, and enemy swordies are pretty uncommon for the most part. Of course, Roger is clearly superior, and then Bantu laughs at them both.

For FE3: Doga's purpose is being an armor knight. For book 2 at least, being the class that he is what is meant to make him viable. Not his stats as an armor. Specifically the class itself. Because FE3 utilizes the indoor mechanics of "Please park your horse outside while invading our kingdom that invaded yours", 90% of your army will be sword locked. Anyone else is either a bow with 2 range lock, or a mage, who is very frail. Axe users were unfortunately banned in book 2 for being too awesome. Therefore, armors are your ONLY source of 1-2 range for all indoor maps, as well as any of your horded silver lances because you stocked up on those and not silver swords like the fool you were. It also means that once you obtain gradivus, not training an armor means you can't use it. 3 out of the last 4 chapters afterwards are all indoors. Your only other armor recruit is someone who shows up very late in the game, so either you train them like hell in the last minute, or you stick with Doga despite the huge jav debuff and reduced value of the defense stat. 

I find this mechanic to be an interesting and unique game design that FE3 chose to tackle for various reasons, but I'm unfortunately busy right now, so I'll have to elaborate in a future post.

48 minutes ago, gnip said:

At least he has his funny glass cannon reclass options in the DS remake, because Knight!Draug is once again obsolete very fast on the higher difficulties there.

Clearly, you didn't give him every chapter 1 kill in FE11 Hard 5.

DS reclassing funni

50 minutes ago, gnip said:

The boss's name is, infamously, Hyman.

Yes, I'm aware. Is that a problem?

50 minutes ago, gnip said:

Hmm, I guess nobody is calling dibs on the one Manual you get... Maji and Darros can already use practically every axe because Kaga hates axe users and didn't give them any advanced ones (Maji needs +1 WLv for the Devil Axe, but...) (even if I wanted to, his WLv growth is actually decent), Wryf gets a big enough boost after promotion, Sheeda and the Xmas cavs all have very good WLv growths.

I don't know all FE1 growths, but I never had trouble with anyone's weapon ranks, so Juuly felt like the obvious choice.

5 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

You owe it to Riff to still use him even if he sucks this time around, like that's just not fair.

[ping]

6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

That's... heartbreaking. You owe it to Riff to still use him even if he sucks this time around, like that's just not fair.

You know you're playing a special FE game when a character can achieve four procs in total  after nine level-ups, and you can accurately describe the loss of those levels as "heartbreaking".

4 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

Clearly, you didn't give him every chapter 1 kill in FE11 Hard 5.

Clearly I didn't, because that would require playing H5 in the first place. I know it's a strange thing to say in a playlog for FE1, right after finishing a PoR Maniac run, but I'm not particularly masochistic.

Well, I've heard that ShaDra on H5 is actually not that bad if you abuse funny forges and the Warp staff, but part of the equation is that when I feel like playing DSFE, I gravitate towards New Mystery, so I've only played ShaDra like three times.

[Saint Rubenio]

7 minutes ago, gnip said:

You know you're playing a special FE game when a character can achieve four procs in total  after nine level-ups, and you can accurately describe the loss of those levels as "heartbreaking".

FE1 is very special. For better or worse, but by its nature as the game where they were still figuring things out, it truly can be described as special. It's also the only FE game with not only recolors as playable characters, but also direct clones. Even Gaiden dodged that.

[ping]

Progress has been restored, and made. Phew. I'm not going to go over the first three maps individually again, just the team at the end of it:

• FE1 Chapter 3 - Devil Mountain (take 2)

Spoiler

	Lv  	HP  Str Skl WLv Spd Lck Def
Mars	3.11	19    6   4   5   8   8   7
Jeigan	2.90	21    7  10  10   8   1   9
Kain	4.63	21    9   6   6   8   5   8
Abel	3.17	19    7   7   7   8   4   8

DOGA	1.00	base
Gordon	1.00	base
Sheeda	3.26	17    3   8   8  14  10   8
Wryf	10.10	18    1   5   4   7   2   3

Saji	3.00	base
Maji	4.56	21    7   5   4  10   5   5
Bartz	5.00	base
Oguma	2.28	base

Darros	5.22	23    8   2   6   7   6   6
Kashim	3.56	base

Julian	3.64	17    4   6   2  12   7   4  (base)
Lena	3.00	16    1   7   7   8   8   3  (base)
Navarr	3.30	19    5   9   9  11   0   6  (base)

• Mars got a crit-kill on the ch.3 boss, so he got a few extra XP compared to before.
• Kain had a very good start, with +2 Str off his low-ish growth.
• No funny high WLv for Wrif this time, unfortunately. He got +2 HP, which is kinda nice, and +1 Lck which is an incredibly impactful bonus that will increase his crit rate after he promotes.

• FE1 Chapter 4 - Battle in the Lea

Spoiler

Once again, splitting up the troops, with the faster ones being going towards the boss. Although given that Lena had to keep up in order to recruit Mathis Machis, it didn't really that much of a difference.

Note Darros being ahead a couple tiles in the upper right - the enemy Fighters are still at 0 AS, so he can double and one-round them with a Hammer. Not very reliably, but he managed to hit all four swings against two of the Fighters. In the lower left, you can see Bartz and Sheeda killing the closest Thief immediately; the former chipping for reliability, the latter taking the kill.

Actually, the higher mobility was useful for this - even though Kain and Abel weren't as lucky with the RNG throwing Javelins over the river as Darros was before, thinning the number of enemies coming across the river is nice.

(there is still the second Horseman two tiles right of the Hunter)

The formation may look like it was chosen for symmetry's sake instead of tactical consideration, but it worked out nicely: Mathis is the second cav to move, which means that he had space to attack Mars and not die horribly to, say Kain's counterattack. (Well, looking at the stats now, I think Mathis would've survived that with 2 HP)

After Lena recruited him, Mathis even was able to be useful - because Sheeda had to stay on the tile she was on, and either Kain or Abel had to block the bridge, I was a bit short on actions from characters that I wanted to feed XP to, so Mathis could do a thing. How nice.

The reason why Sheeda had to stay in position is that the second thief was about to destroy Marich's village and Sheeda was just in range to intercept him (and kill him with a Javelin). The Horsemen are dead at this point, so this was a safe move, as well.

With the village saved, and the swarm of enemies beaten, the map is more or less over - there's still two cavaliers flanking the boss, but they aren't much of a challenge on their own. The last challenge is to not be surprised by the boss's Ridersbane, a task that I actually succeed, for once.

What's worth mentioning is that Darros and Julian cross the river in order to get some of the remaining XP. Julian violates the Geneva convention and stabs the medic to do so, while Darros first manages to reach one of the enemy Hunters...

__

...before brutally murdering the boss. Good job, sailor.

He also managed to proc his 10% Spd growth in that last level-up, which means that he's now able to double zero-AS enemies with a regular Iron Axe. Very nice! (no, really, it's really nice just for the extra accuracy)

The Team:

	Lv  	HP  Str Skl WLv Spd Lck Def
Mars	3.83	19    6   4   5   8   8   7
Jeigan	3.20	21    7  10  10   8   1   9
Kain	5.75	22    9   7   7   9   5   8
Abel	4.01	19    8   7   7   8   5   9

Sheeda	4.22	17    3   9   8  15  11   9
Wryf	10.10	18    1   5   4   7   2   3
Maji	5.09	22    7   5   5  10   5   5
Bartz	5.14	base

Oguma	2.44	base
Darros	7.28	25    9   2   7   8   6   7
Kashim	3.72	base
Julian	4.18	18    5   7   2  12   8   4

Lena	3.00	base
Navarr	3.30	base
Machis	2.61	16    5   2   8   6   6   7  (base)
Marich	1.00	20    1   3   5   6   3   4  (base)

• Machis is worse than Kain and Abel in pretty much every category. The Paladin promotion is a bit of an equaliser, thanks to how promotions work in NES FE, but Machis is still the worst cav that you get. Well, the worst cav thus far.
• Marich looks quote good, though. Good Spd growth, not that squishy, very high WLv growth (useless if you promote him, but he should easily be able to use Starlight if you choose not to).

 

[Saint Rubenio]

5 minutes ago, gnip said:

No funny high WLv for Wrif this time, unfortunately. He got +2 HP, which is kinda nice, and +1 Lck which is an incredibly impactful bonus that will increase his crit rate after he promotes.

Except what he really, really needs is to be able to use all staves. Hmmm...

Also lol Wrif, at this point we're all just calling him whatever we feel like

5 minutes ago, gnip said:

After Lena recruited him, Mathis even was able to be useful - because Sheeda had to stay on the tile she was on, and either Kain or Abel had to block the bridge, I was a bit short on actions from characters that I wanted to feed XP to, so Mathis could do a thing. How nice.

Mathis is epic, use him.

5 minutes ago, gnip said:

The reason why Sheeda had to stay in position is that the second thief was about to destroy Marich's village and Sheeda was just in range to intercept him (and kill him with a Javelin). The Horsemen are dead at this point, so this was a safe move, as well.

Oh yeah, I forgot they moved that village in Sd to be a lot less awful to save lol

5 minutes ago, gnip said:

Marich looks quote good, though. Good Spd growth, not that squishy, very high WLv growth (useless if you promote him, but he should easily be able to use Starlight if you choose not to).

Malik is Excalibur/10. He uses excalibur and otherwise is a worse Wendel. But hey, he does have more availability than Wendel. Y'know, all of... one chapter. Hurray?

Edited August 29, 2023 by Saint Rubenio

[ping]

6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Mathis is epic, use him.

Kain: "+2 Str, +3 Spd in my first four level-ups, I'm going to ***ing carry this playthrough!"
Ruben:

8 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Malik is Excalibur/10. He uses excalibur and otherwise is a worse Wendel.

...

...Pope Man has how much base speed..?

[Saint Rubenio]

8 minutes ago, gnip said:

Kain: "+2 Str, +3 Spd in my first four level-ups, I'm going to ***ing carry this playthrough!"
Ruben:

And you know I'll do it again for Rocher. He's one of the very few FE1 characters who gets his own portrait... for some reason. It's also a portrait I quite like, so uh, yeah.

8 minutes ago, gnip said:

...

...Pope Man has how much base speed..?

I want you to imagine the concept of speed. Attempt to picture the very idea of speed in your mind's eye. Now I want you to look at the whole, at the vast expanse of this abstract notion as it exists within your mental realm.

Do you see it? Do you see all of the speed?

That's the pope's speed.

He has all of the speed.

...No but in all seriousness, when mages promote they get to Wendel's base speed. Mages can only promote 13 chapters after Wendel joins. You have to wait until almost the end of the game for any of Wendel's competition to reach Wendel's base state. Thought the Wendel memes were just fooling around? Think again. There's a reason he's the pope.

Edited August 29, 2023 by Saint Rubenio

[Punished Dayni]

22 minutes ago, gnip said:

The reason why Sheeda had to stay in position is that the second thief was about to destroy Marich's village and Sheeda was just in range to intercept him (and kill him with a Javelin). The Horsemen are dead at this point, so this was a safe move, as well.

Huh, I'm surprised there's a thief there.

That's unique to this game right? I don't recall one elsewhere.

22 minutes ago, gnip said:

...before brutally murdering the boss. Good job, sailor.

He also managed to proc his 10% Spd growth in that last level-up, which means that he's now able to double zero-AS enemies with a regular Iron Axe. Very nice! (no, really, it's really nice just for the extra accuracy)

Really swashing then buckling the enemy there.

23 minutes ago, gnip said:

Well, the worst cav thus far.

That thus far says it all.

(Off topic, who's the worst cav in SD with reclassing?)

14 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Also lol Wrif, at this point we're all just calling him whatever we feel like

We should Wreflect on our abuse of Wrys word, try to use the proper name and not Riff so much on it.

9 minutes ago, gnip said:

Kain: "+2 Str, +3 Spd in my first four level-ups, I'm going to ***ing carry this playthrough!"
Ruben:

I'd expect nothing else.

3 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Do you see it? Do you see all of the speed?

That's the pope's speed.

He has all of the speed.

...No but in all seriousness, when mages promote they get to Wendel's base speed. Mages can only promote 13 chapters after Wendel joins. You have to wait until almost the end of the game for any of Wendel's competition to reach Wendel's base state. Thought the Wendel memes were just fooling around? Think again. There's a reason he's the pope.

Wendell is funny in how good he is, for being a old man in this series showing up early. Wendell is rapid.

(Also, as an aside, pretty much none of the FE sites have recruited allies' Luck bases uploaded, just a blank. I have no idea why none of them bothered to alter it after SDatBoL came out. FE Wikia is the only one I found it on! and even then it only gives it for some and says it varies for others? What the hell's going on?)

[Saint Rubenio]

3 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

We should Wreflect on our abuse of Wrys word, try to use the proper name and not Riff so much on it.

Oh God, it has started. Be careful with those puns, lest you wruffle some feathers.

Hey I have an idea: Let's all start calling him Lee

5 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

Wendell is funny in how good he is, for being a old man in this series showing up early. Wendell is rapid.

He's the pope. He's got places to be and the speed to get there.

5 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

(Also, as an aside, pretty much none of the FE sites have recruited allies' Luck bases uploaded, just a blank. I have no idea why none of them bothered to alter it after SDatBoL came out. FE Wikia is the only one I found it on! and even then it only gives it for some and says it varies for others? What the hell's going on?)

I believe there's something weird going on with the luck values for recruitable enemies in this game. It's like... just, random.

[ping]

16 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

And you know I'll do it again for Rocher. He's one of the very few FE1 characters who gets his own portrait... for some reason. It's also a portrait I quite like, so uh, yeah.

...I guess there's technically three Knight Crests in the game

6 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

Huh, I'm surprised there's a thief there.

That's unique to this game right? I don't recall one elsewhere.

Well, Old Mystery just skips the entire map altogether. Looking as FEWoD, Shadow Dragon still has the same two thieves, but it swapped the villages so that Merric is in the one that's easier to rescue.

The thief that almost got the village spawned in the upper right, and he'll cross the river to get to Merric's village as fast as possible. I don't know it that's different in the DS remake.

14 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

(Off topic, who's the worst cav in SD with reclassing?)

I think Maria is the worst character to reclass into a physical class, but she can't be an unpromoted cav... So I guess it'd be Wrys or Merric? They wouldn't even have a Mag growth for potential Levin Sword memes.

18 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

(Also, as an aside, pretty much none of the FE sites have recruited allies' Luck bases uploaded, just a blank. I have no idea why none of them bothered to alter it after SDatBoL came out. FE Wikia is the only one I found it on! and even then it only gives it for some and says it varies for others? What the hell's going on?)

So I believe every enemy has zero Luck, including recruitables:

I very vaguely remember reading somewhere that they roll a random Luck stat when you recruit them, but I don't know the range or when it's rolled (like, already when you start the map or actually at the point you recruit them at).

[Saint Rubenio]

35 minutes ago, gnip said:

I very vaguely remember reading somewhere that they roll a random Luck stat when you recruit them, but I don't know the range or when it's rolled (like, already when you start the map or actually at the point you recruit them at)

There it is.

6 speed from max on chapter 5.

Pope Windel.

[Shaky Jones]

On 8/28/2023 at 1:44 PM, gnip said:

Clearly I didn't, because that would require playing H5 in the first place. I know it's a strange thing to say in a playlog for FE1, right after finishing a PoR Maniac run, but I'm not particularly masochistic.

I don't think you qualify as a non masochistic FE fan by playing PoR maniac. At the very least, you clearly hate yourself

On 8/28/2023 at 1:44 PM, gnip said:

Well, I've heard that ShaDra on H5 is actually not that bad if you abuse funny forges and the Warp staff, but part of the equation is that when I feel like playing DSFE, I gravitate towards New Mystery, so I've only played ShaDra like three times.

Well if you've beaten New Mystery even once on maniac, you can handle hard 5. If not, you can totally beat it without too much stress and masochism by following this simple step:

Use Cord.

4 hours ago, gnip said:

The formation may look like it was chosen for symmetry's sake instead of tactical consideration, but it worked out nicely: Mathis is the second cav to move, which means that he had space to attack Mars and not die horribly to, say Kain's counterattack. (Well, looking at the stats now, I think Mathis would've survived that with 2 HP

I find tactical consideration to be something Archanea excels at, particularly with New Mystery. I like to think Kaga valued symmetry among the enemy formation while trying to ensure that everything remained tactically competent, but then lost all his Fire Emblem earnings at a poker game, got extremely drunk to cope, and then made Genealogy. Thracia was him adding crack to the mix, balancing out and making a mish mash of decently integrated formations that enhanced the realism of Thracia and actual CBT that Kaga wanted to share his kink of alongside hypnosis.

FE1//FE3B1/FE11 does a great job making standard formations find a way to become compelling strategical battles imo (although the enemy class variety is lacking), but then FE1 decides to have certain chaters throw 30+ turns worth of reinforcements to ruin everything. You call it anti turtling strats. I call it Bantu's dinner.

4 hours ago, gnip said:

After Lena recruited him, Mathis even was able to be useful - because Sheeda had to stay on the tile she was on, and either Kain or Abel had to block the bridge, I was a bit short on actions from characters that I wanted to feed XP to, so Mathis could do a thing. How nice.

Mathis le good. Use him.

4 hours ago, gnip said:

The reason why Sheeda had to stay in position is that the second thief was about to destroy Marich's village and Sheeda was just in range to intercept him (and kill him with a Javelin). The Horsemen are dead at this point, so this was a safe move, as well.

It's entirely possible that the devs who worked on FE11 played FE1 as children themselves, cursing the damned thief for destroying one of their favorite units who gave them the iconic excalibutt, but as they played an incentivizing role in the chapter, they couldn't butcher the guy themselves, so they just swapped the rewards for the 2 houses. It's my headcanon. You can't disprove it.

5 hours ago, gnip said:

Machis is worse than Kain and Abel in pretty much every category. The Paladin promotion is a bit of an equaliser, thanks to how promotions work in NES FE, but Machis is still the worst cav that you get. Well, the worst cav thus far.

That's what they all say.

5 hours ago, gnip said:

Marich looks quote good, though. Good Spd growth, not that squishy, very high WLv growth (useless if you promote him, but he should easily be able to use Starlight if you choose not to).

I'll reply with a Ruben Quote:

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Malik is Excalibur/10. He uses excalibur and otherwise is a worse Wendel. But hey, he does have more availability than Wendel. Y'know, all of... one chapter. Hurray?

Couldn't have said it better. Not without being an ass again.

5 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Mathis is epic, use him.

Oh for fu- why did I even bother typing anything? Borderline same sentence.

4 hours ago, gnip said:

Kain: "+2 Str, +3 Spd in my first four level-ups, I'm going to ***ing carry this playthrough!"
Ruben:

Ruben: "Prepare for trouble!"

Shaky Jones: "And make it double!"

4 hours ago, gnip said:

..Pope Man has how much base speed..?

Gnip when chapter 5 Wendell

4 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I want you to imagine the concept of speed. Attempt to picture the very idea of speed in your mind's eye. Now I want you to look at the whole, at the vast expanse of this abstract notion as it exists within your mental realm.

Do you see it? Do you see all of the speed?

That's the pope's speed.

He has all of the speed

...No but in all seriousness, when mages promote they get to Wendel's base speed. Mages can only promote 13 chapters after Wendel joins. You have to wait until almost the end of the game for any of Wendel's competition to reach Wendel's base state. 

Ruben telling Gnip to use Wrhryyf right after explaining how busted Wendell is

4 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Thought the Wendel memes were just fooling around? Think again. There's a reason he's the pope.

I love overhyping sub-optimal units. Calling Wendell BIG HAT is not an overhype. I am simply respecting my elders, as one should when they are not politicians.

4 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

Huh, I'm surprised there's a thief there.

That's unique to this game right? I don't recall one elsewhere.

I'm pretty sure FE11 does have one too. They're just not as big a deal. Sometimes they cause me trouble though, but at least you're not losing a unit this time.

4 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

(Off topic, who's the worst cav in SD with reclassing?)

Well my Vyland did amazing as a sniper. Abel and Cain are likely going to decent in a lot of things. Sage Cain was nice. It's probably Roshea. 10% speed. That's hard to fix, and he's not like Bord with high base axes for hammers, nor is he Darros whose strength and defense are insane as an armor (think of him as a nerfed General Sedgar/Wolf). Tried making him a curate. Absolute dung. Yeah, it sounds horrible, but at least other units can fast level with some kind of speed growth. My Gordin and curate Matthis's were better than curate Rosh. Besides, Matthis is just good at everything.

4 hours ago, gnip said:

Well, Old Mystery just skips the entire map altogether. Looking as FEWoD, Shadow Dragon still has the same two thieves, but it swapped the villages so that Merric is in the one that's easier to rescue.

Ah, that's what I get for replying late. Ah well. Yeah I knew it was nothing new. 

4 hours ago, gnip said:

I think Maria is the worst character to reclass into a physical class, but she can't be an unpromoted cav... So I guess it'd be Wrys or Merric? They wouldn't even have a Mag growth for potential Levin Sword memes.

Oh they meant which unit out of everyone is bad as a cav? Damn. I'll have to get back to you on that. It could easily be Wrys. Not Merric though. I've seen a cav Merric before. Salvageable. Great base defense. Serviceable speed. Decent defense growth. Forge his way to damage enemies. Not good, but certainly much better than a cav Riff. Since fighter Wriss isn't possible in FE11, you're typically going for mage Wryff followed by swordmaster Rizz for memewrys.

3 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

4 hours ago, gnip said:

I very vaguely remember reading somewhere that they roll a random Luck stat when you recruit them, but I don't know the range or when it's rolled (like, already when you start the map or actually at the point you recruit them at)

Expand  

There it is.

6 speed from max on chapter 5.

Pope Windel.

Riffdel is real.

[Punished Dayni]

17 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Oh God, it has started. Be careful with those puns, lest you wruffle some feathers.

It's a Wrysk I think we're willing to take.

17 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Hey I have an idea: Let's all start calling him Lee

17 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I believe there's something weird going on with the luck values for recruitable enemies in this game. It's like... just, random.

RNG bases: Kaga did it first.

16 hours ago, gnip said:

Looking as FEWoD, Shadow Dragon still has the same two thieves, but it swapped the villages so that Merric is in the one that's easier to rescue.

The thief that almost got the village spawned in the upper right, and he'll cross the river to get to Merric's village as fast as possible. I don't know it that's different in the DS remake.

It has been a long time since I played, so I can't say much on that.

16 hours ago, gnip said:

So I believe every enemy has zero Luck, including recruitables:

I very vaguely remember reading somewhere that they roll a random Luck stat when you recruit them, but I don't know the range or when it's rolled (like, already when you start the map or actually at the point you recruit them at).

I wonder what led to that decision.

12 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Well my Vyland did amazing as a sniper. Abel and Cain are likely going to decent in a lot of things. Sage Cain was nice. It's probably Roshea. 10% speed. That's hard to fix, and he's not like Bord with high base axes for hammers, nor is he Darros whose strength and defense are insane as an armor (think of him as a nerfed General Sedgar/Wolf). Tried making him a curate. Absolute dung. Yeah, it sounds horrible, but at least other units can fast level with some kind of speed growth. My Gordin and curate Matthis's were better than curate Rosh. Besides, Matthis is just good at everything.

Great, an answer the other way around.

Could Roshea benefit from focusing on SM or is this a bridge too far?

Edited August 30, 2023 by Punished Dayni

[Shaky Jones]

10 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

Great, an answer the other way around.

Shoulda specified.

I'd say Boah has a chance to be the potential worst cavalry if we include paladin prepromotes into the equation, but it could easily still be cav Wrys. As I explained earlier, there are merits to cav Merric. At least, more than cav Wrys. Heck, I'd sooner use cav Merric over Roshea. Merric has better bases aside from -1 strength and has more than 10% speed growth. Obviously, Wrys as a cav is just garbage, but at least Wrys has availability. Boah's bases as a paladin are nothing special. 13 speed isn't bad, but everything else is very low for the most part. Even at zero percent growths, Wrys as cav promoted at lvl 10 will mostly retain the same stats, with 7 strength and 22 HP, similar res and skl. Really, you'd be trading some speed for the pure availability aspect that allows you to obtain weapon rank dependent on your dedication. Are you really going to value Boah's non trained bases when there's way more better alternatives, and you're just way better off using sage boah or even sniper Boah? If I was forced to choose between the two, I personally think I'd have a better chance with Wrys.

Both have similarly bad growths, but Wrys has slightly higher growths, which could push him past Boah near the end. I don't think any other unit will have problems as bad as these 2. Maybe I'm undervaluing 13 speed, but Wendell has 14 (i think) at such an earlier chapter with time to gain weapon rank and as a wyvern/sniper, he can gain more speed. Not likely, but possible. He's an A or S tier unit, but Boah, while decent enough as a bishop with rank, doesn't offer quite as much given his jointime, despite the admittedly similar bases. Wrys could be a better paladin soley from luck growth. Wendell's biggest flaw as a physical class is his abysmal luck, so I often reclass to sniper past the early game for long term use of his speed, and he has a not so bad 30% spd growth.

I mean maybe Maria is worse, but I don't really want to get into the nitty griddy of whatever growths Maria could get in any given class before being allowed to transition into a paladin, and saying paladin elice seems unfair. 

11 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

Could Roshea benefit from focusing on SM or is this a bridge too far?

4 STR with 25% spd growth. Wow. (I'm assuming SM is sword master). Not only would he fail to double anyone at H5 (most earlygame speed is 9), but he'd barely damage anyone with an iron sword and you really need to hope for good early game str growths for not being weighed down by when you eventually get steel swords. Doesn't help that Fe11 is just cruel to SM's in general. 80% of the time, your sword rank bonuses will be negated by the 5000 enemy cavs and knights, and dracos. Honestly, he's better off as a mage. 

[ping]

21 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

And you know I'll do it again for Rocher.

So I'm going to nope out of this one. Given that there don't seem to be that many enemies in FE1 to begin with, I don't really want to use too many units that desperately want to be fed kills, and it wouldn't really entertain me to use two bad characters that are functionally the same.

Basically, feel free to choose between Roshe and Machis, but I won't use both. You even get an additional day to think about it, because Maji just got crit by the Peg Knight starting in the top left corner, while the Happy Music was already playing, and I can hardly keep going without him when there's the risk of a nuclear strike attached to that, or whatever Americans do when they are slightly miffed. When I am slightly (or even moderately) miffed at a game, I stop playing it for the day.

[Saint Rubenio]

16 minutes ago, gnip said:

So I'm going to nope out of this one. Given that there don't seem to be that many enemies in FE1 to begin with, I don't really want to use too many units that desperately want to be fed kills, and it wouldn't really entertain me to use two bad characters that are functionally the same.

Basically, feel free to choose between Roshe and Machis, but I won't use both. You even get an additional day to think about it, because Maji just got crit by the Peg Knight starting in the top left corner, while the Happy Music was already playing, and I can hardly keep going without him when there's the risk of a nuclear strike attached to that, or whatever Americans do when they are slightly miffed. When I am slightly (or even moderately) miffed at a game, I stop playing it for the day.

Oh, Christ, there's some serious decision-paralysis there. I like Matthis more on general principle, but Rosher was superior in FE1. Not cloned, cute color palette... Hmmm.

You know what? Fuck it, let's go with funny 10% speed, no dialogue, unique portrait man. Uncharacteristic of me, perhaps, but I can shill Machis in FE3 book 2. Roshea isn't nearly as funny in book 1 and barely exists in book 2, so yeah.

Edited August 30, 2023 by Saint Rubenio

[Shaky Jones]

16 minutes ago, gnip said:

So I'm going to nope out of this one. Given that there don't seem to be that many enemies in FE1 to begin with, I don't really want to use too many units that desperately want to be fed kills, and it wouldn't really entertain me to use two bad characters that are functionally the same.

Basically, feel free to choose between Roshe and Machis, but I won't use both.

Well you did say we can suggest units and will try to use non metas when requested, which I took as "You can pick one meme unit" and occasionally recommend others like I do with Tomas. That said, Maji is the demand of the Cord Connoisseur, so I don't go out of my way to shout out all 20+ characters I actually want you to use (but I do have fun analyzing and recommending fe1 units on a general "how good are they" scale like with Julian). Ruben knows no bounds though. 

10 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Oh, Christ, there's some serious decision-paralysis there. I like Matthis more on general principle, but Rosher was superior in FE1. Not cloned, cute color palette... Hmmm.

Ruben I'm ashamed of you. How is it not obvious? Machis! Machis is the cute one anyways. He's in your sig! 

22 minutes ago, gnip said:

You even get an additional day to think about it, because Maji just got crit by the Peg Knight starting in the top left corner, while the Happy Music was already playing

FE1 IS BETTER THAN FE3, EH RUBEN?

25 minutes ago, gnip said:

I can hardly keep going without him when there's the risk of a nuclear strike attached to that, or whatever Americans do when they are slightly miffed. When I am slightly (or even moderately) miffed at a game, I stop playing it for the day.

[Saint Rubenio]

10 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

Ruben I'm ashamed of you. How is it not obvious? Machis! Machis is the cute one anyways. He's in your sig! 

Yeah but Machis will have time to shine in book 2. Priorities, friend.

10 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

FE1 IS BETTER THAN FE3, EH RUBEN?

I won't lie, I lost half my team to crits and just kept on going. It's dumb. But look, I'm a TF2 player, I'm used to crits being dumb.

[ping]

• FE1 Chapter 5 - Warriors of Orleans

Spoiler

Would you look at that. Another Pegasus Knight crit. How nice. At least this time it was the closer one, so this already happened on turn 2.

Anyway, a successful, deathless run followed. I sent Kain and Marich west to support the Wolfguard, which generally worked out OK, but with not the best XP distribution. Namely, the Turban himself grabbed a lot of XP by first critting a Thief and then looking more enticing to another Thief on enemy phase, getting ~80 kill XP that could've gone to a terrible unit like Roshe instead.

Still, Roshe ended up gaining 154 XP, which I guess isn't bad. And even more not bad, Speed! On his first and only level-up!

He took a lot of damage quickly, so I had to be careful with his positioning, but he still managed to grab a safe kill with his Iron Sword before he was healed by Wendell, then given the Armourslayer by Jeigan, allowing him to kill both the boss and the generic Knight starting next to him.

Case in point - Roshe being protected by Jeigan, Kain, and Hardin. I actually like how that part of the map plays, with not exactly a choke point, but the possibility to block the path with three units in different configurations depending on where the enemies are.

Not as much to be said about the eastern part of the map, as long as Mars doesn't eat any crits. This set of movement allows him to enemy-phase two Cavs on turn 1, be in range for Wendell to recruit himself on turn 2 (and potentially enemy-phase some more, with Wryf healing if needed), and get Bantu's Firestone on turn 3.

Mars had some crit luck of his own in this clear, one-rounding one of the cavs attacking him on turn 1, while Sheeda killed another with Jeigan's Silver Lance. With those two kills, clean-up is, as you can see, not much of a problem, but with Mars's Super Provoke skill, it's not the end of the world if one or two additional enemies survive the second player phase. ...provided none of them get, like, a crit, of course.

Of the fielded characters, Bartz was mostly there to empty his inventory, although he ended up throwing a Hand Axe at something and eventually grabbed a few Steel Swords from the armory without bringing them to storage, so he'll turn up some other time in the future. Wolf also grabbed a few items (notably the Horseslayer and the boss's Silver Lance) from the convoy to distribute on some later map.

The Team:

	Lv  	HP  Str Skl WLv Spd Lck Def
Mars	4.21	20    6   4   5   9   8   7
Jeigan	3.66	21    7  10  10   8   1   9
Kain	6.56	23    9   7   8  10   5   8
Sheeda	5.24	17    3  10   9  16  11   9

Wryf	10.10	18    1   5   4   7   2   3
Maji	5.45	22    7   5   5  10   5   5
Bartz	5.24	24   10   6   6   9   5   6	(base)
Darros	7.38	25    9   2   7   8   6   7

Julian	4.58	18    5   7   2  12   8   4
Marich	1.39	20    1   3   5   6   3   4	(base)
Hardin	7.26	20    9   7  10   9   4   8
Wolf	3.09	18    5   5   6   9   5   4	(base)

Zagaro	1.42	16    4   3   3   7   2   4	(base)
Roshe	4.54	19    6   5   7   8   4   7
Biraku	1.00	16    5   3   4   6   2   7	(base)
Wendell	1.44	22    3   1  10  14   4   8	(base)

• Hardin's growths are slightly lower than Kain and Abel's, in particular his HP growth, but they're still quite good. Basically the pre-leveled, slightly worse cavalier in case you didn't train the Xmas cavs or got them killed or were just unlucky with their level-ups.
• Wolf is quite fast, considering the low weight of bows, although his growth is only 20%. Otherwise, his growths are pretty decent - 50% Str being the most important one, and enough WLv growth that he should get to Parthia eventually. On average, he'd get there at Lv.15, so it's not a guarantee, though. He seems... OK, a character with unique qualities, being a high-movement archer, but also not the most amazing stats.
• Zagaro is a worse Wolf, in both bases and growths.
• Roshe has a 10% Spd growth. Like, his other growths are fine, or at least not the worst, but oof.
• Vyland has twice of Roshe's Spd growth! Wow! Realistically, though, he's probably the worst cav in the game.
• I gushed about Wendell's Spd base already, didn't I? A platotic example of Bases > Growths. Poor Marich.

Next map, I will hopefully grab a Seraph Robe, as long as I spend a Warp use to save it (and another for the Killing Edge, too, I suppose). If I recall, thieves don't drop the items they get from chests in FE1, do they?

This also means that everybody can make an argument why it shouldn't be Sheeda eating the Seraph Robe. I suppose out of the requested characters, Julian would be the most logical choice, him being a relatively squishy melee fighter.

20 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

You know what? Fuck it, let's go with funny 10% speed, no dialogue, unique portrait man. Uncharacteristic of me, perhaps, but I can shill Machis in FE3 book 2. Roshea isn't nearly as funny in book 1 and barely exists in book 2, so yeah.

I'll write down Machis for Book 2, then. With Dayni requesting Biraku/Vyland for Book 1, that should even cover all the terrible cavaliers that Akaneia has to offer.

20 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Well you did say we can suggest units and will try to use non metas when requested, which I took as "You can pick one meme unit" and occasionally recommend others like I do with Tomas. That said, Maji is the demand of the Cord Connoisseur, so I don't go out of my way to shout out all 20+ characters I actually want you to use (but I do have fun analyzing and recommending fe1 units on a general "how good are they" scale like with Julian). Ruben knows no bounds though. 

As someone familiar with the concept of freedom, my idea was that everybody is free to suggest/request anybody they think would be funny to use, and I am free to ignore anything that would ruin my fun. Like, if three different people would've asked for Machis, Roshe, and Biraku, I'd still have said no to three bad units all falling in the same category of "cavalier with really low speed", all joining basically at the same point of the game.

[Saint Rubenio]

10 minutes ago, gnip said:

Would you look at that. Another Pegasus Knight crit. How nice. At least this time it was the closer one, so this already happened on turn 2.

He wasn't hurt by the attack, but it made him trip and fall on his own spikes. A shame.

10 minutes ago, gnip said:

Still, Roshe ended up gaining 154 XP, which I guess isn't bad. And even more not bad, Speed! On his first and only level-up!

HAHAHAHAHA

If you don't lose the save file for the billionth time, this is a sign. He has a 10% speed growth, like seriously.

11 minutes ago, gnip said:

Wolf is quite fast, considering the low weight of bows, although his growth is only 20%. Otherwise, his growths are pretty decent - 50% Str being the most important one, and enough WLv growth that he should get to Parthia eventually. On average, he'd get there at Lv.15, so it's not a guarantee, though. He seems... OK, a character with unique qualities, being a high-movement archer, but also not the most amazing stats.

I used Wolf and he lasted the entire game. Yeah, he's fine.

11 minutes ago, gnip said:

I gushed about Wendell's Spd base already, didn't I? A platotic example of Bases > Growths. Poor Marich.

Wendell is unmatched. He's a better myrmidon than the myrmidons lol

12 minutes ago, gnip said:

I'll write down Machis for Book 2, then. With Dayni requesting Biraku/Vyland for Book 1, that should even cover all the terrible cavaliers that Akaneia has to offer.

I'm glad we have all come together like this, boys. We did it.

[ping]

6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

He wasn't hurt by the attack, but it made him trip and fall on his own spikes. A shame.

Oh, that was Mars dying; thus Jeigan telling him that he must hold on etc.

I guess Mars tripped and when Jeigan tried to catch him, he accidentally impaled Mars with his spikes instead. Tragic.