To Become an Elitist [Playlogs FE1-5] [currently playing: Genealogy]

[Shaky Jones]

16 hours ago, gnip said:

To be honest, this might be the first map of the game that I don't think is very good. The village being in a dead end doesn't really do anything but waste time or, if you're impatient like me, a Warp use. If there was another path south of the village (maybe also with a door, or with the Thief positioned a bit further away), it might not be so bad, but even then - the rest of the map is pretty empty. You have the three flying enemies coming at you... and that's it, pretty much. Reinforcements spawn on turn 13, which is pretty easy to avoid, so once you've beaten the Wyvern Rider, the map is very easy, but also rather slow, which isn't the greatest of combinations.

It's a rather underwhelming map for Archanean standards. Defeating the whitewings for extra xp is interesting enough, but it's a bit slow when you go to the village, then walk in a small spiral while the thief just exists. It's clearly just meant to introduce wyverns and the mountain is meant to show off them soaring past it while you're possibly split or something. After that, it's just a lot of walking. Normally in FE11, more enemies show up based of the zone proc ambush, but that can be annoying for blind players, although turn 13 isn't a whole lot better. What, you fight 3 fliers, a few mercs, and that's basically it. Anyone else doesn't really pose enough of a threat to warrant Riff's attention. Although this map has one saving grace.

17 hours ago, gnip said:

15 Def and 18 Atk is certainly not too bad for Banutu, although non-Sheeda characters with high enough WLv can match (Roshe) or exceed (Kain) the latter. If I recall, there's some bug that allows him to reach truly silly Def numbers, but even "legit", Banutu seems pretty decent for his high Def alone. We'll see how common enemies with Silvers and more than 1 AS are going to be.

There he is!

*cue audience applause*

16 hours ago, gnip said:

But to get to the clear: Step one was to have Marich kill the two Archers behind the door, delaying opening it until the second turn so that Mars can get closer without drawing fire.

🤢

Why use him when you have perfectly good old men?

17 hours ago, gnip said:

____

...except that didn't happen. I am confused. The Wyvern Rider moves first - the three screenshots are in the correct order - so he clearly would've been able to attack Mars, but didn't. The heck? I thought Mars's "provoke ability" was reliable? This was rather awkward, with Marich being one tile short of reaching the Wyvern.

Wrfy dodged q u i c k l y

It's about time we told you of the true lord of FE.

17 hours ago, gnip said:

That somebody ended up being Maji - Kain dealt 2x3 damage, Darros would've killed with his Steel Axe (5 damage), Maji dealt exactly 2x2 damage with his Steel Axe. His Str growth hasn't been entirely agreeable thus far, by which I mean he's still at base Str, which made this a little unreliable.

Damn. Your game must be bugged. Maji should break the strength cap by now, and everything else.

17 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I mean, Maji in my FE1 run turned out positively godly, so who knows, really.

World's weakest Maji.

This LP almost makes me wanna replay FE1 to use meme units and give the game another chance, but I really don't have the time or patience right now. Maybe one day, like a pmu or a soul Link ironman with Ruben where we kill each other's favorites out of spite or something.

and then I end up not even playing my switch version of it

17 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Wyrvern?

Wriffern

17 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

...Wendel is so fucking insane in this game, seriously. No wonder they spent three whole games nerfing him.

Fun fact: Shadow Dragon was going to have only normal and hard mode (h2), but they saw Wendell and knew that they needed a mode that would stand up to his raw hat.

 

No, they couldn't just reduce his stats. Trust me, they tried.

17 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I used Banutu the entire game in my run and he was a lot of fun. Big tanky times.

He's so fun. His dragon sprite is awesome.

15 hours ago, gnip said:

I mean, with Wryf not being able to use Physic, Warp, or even Barrier, Wendell is going to have to use staves more often, so I don't think it's a bad idea to field a second offensive magic user. Don't worry, Wryf will still get the first Guiding Ring

Me when Boah.

[ping]

16 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Why use him when you have perfectly good old men?

Because one of the perfectly good old men has to cover advanced staff duty (i.e. Warp and Physic/Reblow) for the other perfectly good old man.

Plus, Excalibur is fun. 13 damage, modest weight, perfect accuracy in a game where you only ever get perfect accuracy when swinging the weakest weapon in the game? Yes, please.

On 9/2/2023 at 6:30 PM, Polinym said:

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Definitely not me creeping around here, looking for the elusive translation feedback... Nope. Pay me no mind.

 

I've been enjoying the translation a lot thus far! Sorry, I probably could've given it more of a spotlight, considering it's not the "classic" translation patch that most (non-Switch) players probably still use.

• FE1 Chapter 8 - Port Town Warren

Spoiler

Another not-too-great map. That's two in a row already, Kaga! And you've had such a good run thus far.

The main problem: This is literally the one spot in the map that matters.  A single one-tile choke point that you either hold or slowly push through. Apart from the boss, this is where you fight Every. Single. Enemy. On the map.

The other problem: Crossbows. Crossbows everywhere. These don't hit particularly hard (10-11 attack), but I may have had two runs end because a crucial character like Roshe or Maji took one crit too many, burning away most of the goodwill I had left for the map.

__

 

The most interesting challenge is to find a good spot to recruit Roger from, ideally without giving him an opportunity to kill himself on one of your own units. He's quite tanky, of course, but having a Hammer guy in his range could spell disaster for the poor simp.

In this case, I was helped by a peculiar piece of RNG in this chapter: In the two previous tries, all the horseback units in the top left immediately started moving, but this time, half of them (4/6 Cavs and 1/4 Horsemen) just didn't move until somebody moved into range for one of them, at which point they all started moving at once.  Maybe there was some subtle differences in how I moved my units that caused this different behaviour, but my working theory is "weird RNG".

I don't really have anything to add about the map, so let's get to the things that don't have to do with that big small chokepoint. Firstly: Thanks to Wryf healing, as well as an unreasonable amount of dodging, Raddy managed to visit the arena in all 8 turns that I spent on this map, gaining him a bit more than 2 levels worth of XP.

A slightly odd detail is that I think he had a 100% chance to win every fight as long as he kept using his Iron Sword. I swapped him to Caesar's Steel Sword in previous attempts, but between the non-100 hit rates and not outspeeding enemy Mercenaries, that was actually a bad call. Enemies tended to deal 6 damage per hit to them, which means that he survived 3 hits, which was always enough time to get the kill even if he hadn't dodged anything, thanks to outspeeding everything. Still, dodging a fair number of attacks helped, because Wryf only carried a basic Heal staff with him.

____

I think I can report a small localisation issue here @Polinym: It seems that after winning the arena, the text loses the last digit of the wager.

There's also the occasional colour palette confusion, which will sometimes also leave tiles on the map temporarily miscoloured. I don't know how reproducable this bug is, though.

____

But as I said, otherwise I much enjoy the dialogue. It feels more natural compared to the (as I remember it) more clunky older translation. I recommend.

(You can see a yellow and a pink mountain next to Roger and Sheeda's dialogue, in the top left of the screenshots)
(Making screenshots is a bit annoying, since when somebody says five lines worth of dialogue, the little down arrow indicating "continue by pressing A" will push the first line off-screen - hence the sloppily Paint-ed y." in the first screenshot; it's very difficult to time right. This has no negative impact on readability when you just play the game, though.)

Back to gameplay, the boss kill went, surprisingly, to Darros. He dodged Kanalis's attack on player phase (so Mars didn't have to go in to draw the EP combat) and then hit both his sub-50% chances on enemy phase. Otherwise, Marich, Maji, and of course Mars were in range to help out.

Shopping-wise, Caesar and Hardin bought a few Heal staves, Thunder tomes, Silver Lances, and a single Rapier. The Heal staves in particular come at a good time, since Wryf used up his initial one during Raddy's arena adventures. I also have a decent stash of Silver weapons at this point, and really should see that I distribute some among the characters with high enough WLv - which is basically Kain and Roshe, right now, since Sheeda has been using Jeigan's Silver Lance for a while (if sparingly) now.

Intelligent-wise, I'm feeling a bit stupid because I only in this chapter realised that the Steel Sword also just has a WLv requirement of 2. That makes Julian a lot less painful to give kills to.

The Team:

	Lv  	HP  Str Skl WLv Spd Lck Def
Mars	6.08	22    8   6   5   9  10   7
Kain	10.11	27    9  10  12  12   5   8
Sheeda	8.03	18    3  12  11  19  13  10
Wryf	10.54	18    1   5   4   7   2   3
	
Maji	7.93	24    7   5   6  11   5   6
Darros	9.93	27   10   2   7   9   6   8
Julian	5.65	28    5   8   2  13   8   4	(+9 HP)
Marich	4.26	21    1   4   8   7   5   6

Roshe	7.52	22    7   8   9   9   4   7
Wendell	2.08	22    3   1  11  14   5   8
Wolf	3.21	18    5   5   6   9   5   4	(base)
Banutu	1.10	18    2   3   2   4   1   3	(base)

Hardin	7.26	20    9   7  10   9   4   8
Caesar	3.00	17    5   8   6  12   6   7	(base)
Raddy	3.14	18    6   9   7  11   2   6
Roger	5.82	22    7   3   9   5   6  13	(base)

Kain is ready for promotion! ...but the first Knight Crest is available in chapter 12. And chances are that Roshe is going to get it, since he needs it more than Kain does and obviously gets more bonus stats out of it, too. I think this is another instance that I can point to when somebody whines about a BinBla quirk: "See, promo items come even later in FE1!"

I would also do Darros a great injustice if I didn't mention that he is now part of the illustrious group of 10%-Spd-growth folks with two Spd level-ups. Your move, Roshe. As far as the newbees go..:

• Truly, the Est archetype should've been named Raddy. He starts at Lv.1, with base stats worse than Navarre and especially Oguma's, but his growths, other than a 10% in Def, are all really good, 50% Str, 70% Spd being higher than anybody's but Julian. I might see if I can get him to promotion, he seems like a fun bad unit.
• Caesar seems a bit better, but still bad, and less fun than his buddy Raddy. His bases are still worse than what Oguma came with six chapters ago, and unlike Raddy, his growths are downright bad, with no non-HP growth above 30%.
• Roger seems to reprise DOGA's role from the earlygame. His bases are a bit higher, probably not too different from what a trained DOGA would have to show, although it's likely that Roger will still have a little Def lead. Like DOGA, Roger doesn't have particularly good growths, especially considering his lack of promotion, but they're distributed a bit differently.

 

[Shaky Jones]

48 minutes ago, gnip said:

Plus, Excalibur is fun. 13 damage, modest weight, perfect accuracy in a game where you only ever get perfect accuracy when swinging the weakest weapon in the game? Yes, please.

Fair enough. Pretty sure I brought Merric myself for early game. Chip damage is always nice.

49 minutes ago, gnip said:

Another not-too-great map. That's two in a row already, Kaga! And you've had such a good run thus far.

Me when chapter 1-6

Me when chapter 7-8

Me when chapter 9+

1 hour ago, gnip said:

The main problem: This is literally the one spot in the map that matters.  A single one-tile choke point that you either hold or slowly push through. Apart from the boss, this is where you fight Every. Single. Enemy. On the map.

Yeah, this map is really bad in FE1. Not a whole lot better in FE3 either. It's okay in FE11. Definitely one of the less cool maps, but the reinforcements are much more manageable and you have armor Draug to choke the point.

Really this is just the map where you throw your tankiest units and they gain several level ups. In other words, Bantu's Big Buffet.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

The other problem: Crossbows. Crossbows everywhere. These don't hit particularly hard (10-11 attack), but I may have had two runs end because a crucial character like Roshe or Maji took one crit too many, burning away most of the goodwill I had left for the map.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

A slightly odd detail is that I think he had a 100% chance to win every fight as long as he kept using his Iron Sword. I swapped him to Caesar's Steel Sword in previous attempts, but between the non-100 hit rates and not outspeeding enemy Mercenaries, that was actually a bad call. Enemies tended to deal 6 damage per hit to them, which means that he survived 3 hits, which was always enough time to get the kill even if he hadn't dodged anything, thanks to outspeeding everything. Still, dodging a fair number of attacks helped, because Wryf only carried a basic Heal staff with him.

The arena is rather easy to win in for FE1, at least based off my experience.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

Intelligent-wise, I'm feeling a bit stupid because I only in this chapter realised that the Steel Sword also just has a WLv requirement of 2. That makes Julian a lot less painful to give kills to.

You were just using irons?

1 hour ago, gnip said:

Kain is ready for promotion! ...but the first Knight Crest is available in chapter 12. And chances are that Roshe is going to get it, since he needs it more than Kain does and obviously gets more bonus stats out of it, too. I think this is another instance that I can point to when somebody whines about a BinBla quirk: "See, promo items come even later in FE1!"

A problem neither game should suffer from.

Master Seal FE6 patches my beloved.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

Truly, the Est archetype should've been named Raddy. He starts at Lv.1, with base stats worse than Navarre and especially Oguma's, but his growths, other than a 10% in Def, are all really good, 50% Str, 70% Spd being higher than anybody's but Julian. I might see if I can get him to promotion, he seems like a fun bad unit.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

Caesar seems a bit better, but still bad, and less fun than his buddy Raddy. His bases are still worse than what Oguma came with six chapters ago, and unlike Raddy, his growths are downright bad, with no non-HP growth above 30%.

I mainly remember Raddy in the sense of him and Caesar being the prime example of an interview with Kaga about why units are imbalanced. Something like "Why are units like Caesar weak? Ogma just seems to be a better unit". And Kaga's basically like "Ironman my game lol". And as we all know, the world said "Fuck no".

Poor guys. I like them, especially Caesar. I have fond memories using him in FE games. A shame he and Radders aren't in B2.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

Roger seems to reprise DOGA's role from the earlygame. His bases are a bit higher, probably not too different from what a trained DOGA would have to show, although it's likely that Roger will still have a little Def lead. Like DOGA, Roger doesn't have particularly good growths, especially considering his lack of promotion, but they're distributed a bit differently.

I used Roger a lot. Fun guy with silly growths that I actually like the design of, but he did kinda fall off post chapter 20. 

Kaga please give me armor promotion they look so badass

[Saint Rubenio]

On 9/2/2023 at 6:30 PM, Polinym said:

...kinda.

Subyakumi (quickly, swiftly, nimbly), kawashita (dodged).
Hence, dodged quickly. Dragon Warrior words it similarly too.

Oh, I understand. Huh, must've been a thing of the time, then.

On 9/2/2023 at 10:12 PM, Punished Dayni said:

All according to Kaga.

Old man could put some of his games on sale. There's a strategy game sale on Steam right now and he won't discount either Vestaria!

18 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Wriffern

Pffft! Okay, that got a nice chuckle out of me.

18 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Fun fact: Shadow Dragon was going to have only normal and hard mode (h2), but they saw Wendell and knew that they needed a mode that would stand up to his raw hat.

 

No, they couldn't just reduce his stats. Trust me, they tried.

Pope Windell can't stop winning.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

The other problem: Crossbows. Crossbows everywhere. These don't hit particularly hard (10-11 attack), but I may have had two runs end because a crucial character like Roshe or Maji took one crit too many, burning away most of the goodwill I had left for the map.

See, I fixed this flaw of the game by ironmanning it. Not out of self-imposed challenge, I just didn't want to reset.

...It really hurt losing Minerva, I must say. I was just about to say "holy shit she's so badass she can tank a silver bow", then the sniper got a crit. Fucking smartass...

1 hour ago, gnip said:

How Caesar called here? The Spanish fanslation threw caution to the wind and called him Seazer, because fuck real names.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

Caesar

Ah, I see.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

(You can see a yellow and a pink mountain next to Roger and Sheeda's dialogue, in the top left of the screenshots)
(Making screenshots is a bit annoying, since when somebody says five lines worth of dialogue, the little down arrow indicating "continue by pressing A" will push the first line off-screen - hence the sloppily Paint-ed y." in the first screenshot; it's very difficult to time right. This has no negative impact on readability when you just play the game, though.)

I don't know what emulator you're using, but Mesen has rewind. Just press R and go back, it's very painless.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

Kain is ready for promotion! ...but the first Knight Crest is available in chapter 12. And chances are that Roshe is going to get it, since he needs it more than Kain does and obviously gets more bonus stats out of it, too. I think this is another instance that I can point to when somebody whines about a BinBla quirk: "See, promo items come even later in FE1!"

Yeah, the thing about this game is that, if a character is RNG-blessed, you don't want to promote them. Kain would get almost nothing.

13 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

I used Roger a lot. Fun guy with silly growths that I actually like the design of, but he did kinda fall off post chapter 20. 

That's because you didn't show him enough love. I gave Tomth the move item, and a couple other boosters and the guy was way powerful way into the lategame. He survived! Not everyone can say that, in my FE1 run.

[ping]

9 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

Fair enough. Pretty sure I brought Merric myself for early game. Chip damage is always nice.

I can swap to cute anime mage girl #245 when she joins, if you insist.

8 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

See, I fixed this flaw of the game by ironmanning it. Not out of self-imposed challenge, I just didn't want to reset.

...It really hurt losing Minerva, I must say. I was just about to say "holy shit she's so badass she can tank a silver bow", then the sniper got a crit. Fucking smartass...

I'm sure Shaky would be polite and reasonable if I didn't reset for Maji at some point.

But yeah, I probably wouldn't have reset for Raddy if he had died in the arena, since nobody has requested him and I don't know how much I really need another growth unit.

8 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I don't know what emulator you're using, but Mesen has rewind. Just press R and go back, it's very painless.

C'mon, don't tell me how to quickly and easily cheat at the video game! Now I must show restraint!

(just kidding, I already started to make emulator saves at the start of every map after my "legit" save file mishap, and I'm still managing the temptation of mid-chapter saves just fine)

(I might not in Gaiden, I'm just remembering some of the "move everybody forward for 8 turns while nothing happens" on Celica's side of the map)

[Saint Rubenio]

1 hour ago, gnip said:

I can swap to cute anime mage girl #245 when she joins, if you insist.

I actually did. She survived, too, but she wasn't nearly as epic as Riff.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

I'm sure Shaky would be polite and reasonable if I didn't reset for Maji at some point.

You can just do a quick edit and pretend Saji died instead

1 hour ago, gnip said:

C'mon, don't tell me how to quickly and easily cheat at the video game! Now I must show restraint!

Hey, tools are there to be used! I've done it myself when screenshots didn't come out right.

[Punished Dayni]

11 hours ago, gnip said:

Back to gameplay, the boss kill went, surprisingly, to Darros. He dodged Kanalis's attack on player phase (so Mars didn't have to go in to draw the EP combat) and then hit both his sub-50% chances on enemy phase. Otherwise, Marich, Maji, and of course Mars were in range to help out

11 hours ago, gnip said:

I would also do Darros a great injustice if I didn't mention that he is now part of the illustrious group of 10%-Spd-growth folks with two Spd level-ups. Your move, Roshe.

We're Sail-ling, we're float-ing,

There's not an Isle in the ocean that we can't reach

Darros cares not for your probabilities, he will smash his way through.

11 hours ago, gnip said:

I think this is another instance that I can point to when somebody whines about a BinBla quirk: "See, promo items come even later in FE1!"

I don't think BinB complainers (as an occasional one myself) have a leg to stand on there when there's no Bishop's Ring before Chapter 19 in SDatBoL.

11 hours ago, gnip said:

Truly, the Est archetype should've been named Raddy. He starts at Lv.1, with base stats worse than Navarre and especially Oguma's, but his growths, other than a 10% in Def, are all really good, 50% Str, 70% Spd being higher than anybody's but Julian. I might see if I can get him to promotion, he seems like a fun bad unit.

He's still too early

He won't be if those growths pan out, though he might want a dracoshield.

[Shaky Jones]

9 hours ago, gnip said:

I can swap to useless anime mage girl #245 when she joins, if you insist.

Gnip after extensively training [magic girl] for 10 chapters, only to see she's still weaker than Wendel:

9 hours ago, gnip said:

I'm sure Shaky would be polite and reasonable if I didn't reset for Maji at some point.

You never know, but here's a hint:

I could never ironman this. To train a unit so hard to have unavoidable crits wash my efforts down the drain. I'd pull Ruben's hair out.

9 hours ago, gnip said:

(just kidding, I already started to make emulator saves at the start of every map after my "legit" save file mishap, and I'm still managing the temptation of mid-chapter saves just fine

Save states to prevent critical hit restarts seems fair imo

9 hours ago, gnip said:

I might not in Gaiden, I'm just remembering some of the "move everybody forward for 8 turns while nothing happens" on Celica's side of the map)

What a beautiful game. Alm and Celica go together like Gaiden and the emulator speeding hotkey.

7 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

You can just do a quick edit and pretend Saji died instead

You actually have Saji as your sig with an edited M. The ultimate troll.

18 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

See, I fixed this flaw of the game by ironmanning it. Not out of self-imposed challenge, I just didn't want to reset.

...It really hurt losing Minerva, I must say. I was just about to say "holy shit she's so badass she can tank a silver bow", then the sniper got a crit. Fucking smartass...

Sounds abysmal. Ironically, the game the tries the hardest to be ironman able to define the soon to be iconic franchise becomes the least ironmanable for me. This is an even bigger flaw.

18 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

That's because you didn't show him enough love. I gave Tomth the move item, and a couple other boosters and the guy was way powerful way into the lategame. He survived! Not everyone can say that, in my FE1 run.

Oh for sure. Roger's easily usable. I was just bored out of my mind and wanted to solo to endgame. Pretty sure I warp abused with my capped units because I was done with NESFE at this point. One day I'll try to actually play the game.

7 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

I don't think BinB complainers (as an occasional one myself) have a leg to stand on there when there's no Bishop's Ring before Chapter 19 in SDatBoL

As a professional complainer, I see this as more fuel.

Master Seal or gtfo.

[ping]

7 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

We're Sail-ling, we're float-ing,

There's not an Isle in the ocean that we can't reach

Darros cares not for your probabilities, he will smash his way through.

7 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

He won't be if those growths pan out, though he might want a dracoshield.

Well, he's a "fun bad unit" because he'll get somewhere with training, unlike a unit that's just plain bad (or funny bad like Wendy). I just wouldn't consider him "good" because he's still at Lv.1, in a game where underleveled units don't gain more XP, while a trained Oguma or Navarre probably would be able to use the upcoming Hero Crest right away, or at least without too much delay.

11 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

Gnip after extensively training [magic girl] for 10 chapters, only to see she's still weaker than Wendel:

Shaky after realising that an extensively trained [magic girl] can dish 40 points of damage in a single round of combat, which Wendell is physically incapable of:

(I'd never doubt the power of popery, but I can't deny that both unpromoted Mages have their own little nukes, too)

• FE1 Chapter 9 - Peraty Dragon

Spoiler

There is more going on again on this map compared to the previous ones, which is nice - chokepoints, enemy pirates that are less constricted by these chokepoints than the player, more than just one spot in which your units clash with the enemy's.

You see Darros and Sheeda trying to lure those three Pirates on the boss's island towards the north, in order to thin out that general area. Didn't wholly work out - they did all go after Darros (two of them have Hand Axes equipped, so they could all reach him), but the two with 1-2 range then turned to take the land route towards the door, anyway.

____

Kain accompanied Mars on his way to the village in the east, which was easily enough to get there and recruit George before the Thieves could get there. They then looped around to the throne, slightly delayed by Kain missing a Javelin toss against one of the two thieves. But other than those plus that archer, all the enemies went towards the main group, allowing this minimal detachment.

I was considering sending Wendell along with them to warp Mars to the throne, but decided to do another time-saving warp.

__

The main group still managed to cut through their share of enemies long before Mars could rejoin them. You're seeing the most scary round of combat during the map, given that crossbows still have that nasty crit rate and they double Darros; other than that, Banutu (being attacked by the Mage when I expected him to still be in healing AI) and Roshe (facing a few pirates) also ended up at very low HP, but with no risk of death barring a low-% crit.

The boss is basically a joke if you have Marrich or Wendell around, and using Excalibur here was honestly a bit of a waste. Mars wasn't even anywhere close in order to seize, anyway.

It's maybe a bit waste to warp Julian across here, considering that he probably just would've taken like 3-4 extra turns to get there after Mars reached the throne, but I am a bit impatient with this sort of stuff. This one chest way out of the way of any other relevant location is probably my biggest gripe with an otherwise solid map.

You also see the first and only reinforcements spawning this chapter (note to self: Killing the boss does not prevent them); two pirates appearing on turn 10 as ambush spawns. According to FEWod, you get reinforcements from turn 10 to 16, with even more appearing from the forts in the south starting on turn 12. Since they appear on separate islands (limiting their immediate attacking range) from a bunch of forts that clearly serve no other purpose, I shall keep note of them as an example of fair, or at least fair enough ambush spawns.

Hey, I forgot that she's making an appearance this early in the game, despite not joining for another five maps or so.

Not a criticism of this translation, which I know tries to be as faithful to the original as is reasonable, but I have to say I like the official localisation of the pegasus sisters as the "Whitewings". It just has a nice ring to it and is nice and thematic.

The Team:

	Lv  	HP  Str Skl WLv Spd Lck Def
Mars	6.70	22    8   6   5   9  10   7
Kain	11.51	28    9  10  13  13   6   8
Sheeda	8.88	18    3  12  11  19  13  10
Wryf	10.54	18    1   5   4   7   2   3

Maji	8.29	25    8   5   6  11   6   7
Darros	10.79	28   10   2   7  10   6   8
Julian	5.93	28    5   8   2  13   8   4	(+9 HP)
Marich	5.55	22    1   4   9   8   6   6

Roshe	7.99	22    7   8   9   9   4   7
Wendell	2.20	22    3   1  11  14   5   8
Wolf	3.27	18    5   5   6   9   5   4	(base)
Banutu	1.62	18    2   3   2   4   1   3	(base)

Hardin	7.36	20    9   7  10   9   4   8
Raddy	4.30	19    7  10   7  11   2   6
Abel	4.01	19    8   7   7   8   5   9
George	1.00	24    7  10  10  12   4   8	(base)

• 10 Spd Darros? 10 Spd Darros.
• Hardin and Abel were mostly around to shuffle some items around - Abel as somebody with an empty inventory to give unneeded items to, Hardin because he was still carrying a Silver Lance around, which would look much better in Roshe's inventory. Inventory management is a constant struggle, though.
• George seems to be a pretty well-designed prepromote: Perfectly capable, but not quite as good as a trained growth unit. Although in this case, the "growth" units Gordon and Tomas have pretty bad growth rates, too, and their main advantage over George is the extra 14 Spd they get from promoting to Sniper. Still, a good example of a trade-off between less effort required vs. better results if you do put in some work.
  • (I do appreciate that this translation doesn't try to fancify his name by spelling it with a J)

 

[Saint Rubenio]

8 hours ago, Punished Dayni said:

I don't think BinB complainers (as an occasional one myself) have a leg to stand on there when there's no Bishop's Ring before Chapter 19 in SDatBoL.

I know they were still figuring things out at this point, but I really have to wonder what the thought process there was. "Okay, so we're gonna make it so the old hat men are just better than all the mages until chapter 18. Only then can the rest of them match base Wendel and start competing."

1 hour ago, Shaky Jones said:

I'd pull Ruben's hair out.

You cannot reach, I'm too tall.

1 hour ago, Shaky Jones said:

You actually have Saji as your sig with an edited M. The ultimate troll.

I mean, I can't prove otherwise. They're virtually identical and that does seem more like a Saji statsheet. I can only offer my word.

29 minutes ago, gnip said:

Shaky after realising that an extensively trained [magic girl] can dish 40 points of damage in a single round of combat, which Wendell is physically incapable of:

(I'd never doubt the power of popery, but I can't deny that both unpromoted Mages have their own little nukes, too)

Ahh, the 20/20 argument. Nobody ever stops to consider all the contributions the pope was doing for 11 chapters while the growth unit was clawing their way out of No Promo Item Hell.

31 minutes ago, gnip said:

"Me"? I thought Salamander was an old dragon deity that this guy worshipped.

30 minutes ago, gnip said:

Not a criticism of this translation, which I know tries to be as faithful to the original as is reasonable, but I have to say I like the official localisation of the pegasus sisters as the "Whitewings". It just has a nice ring to it and is nice and thematic.

I wish I remembered what they were called in the Spanish fanslation. The three of them vanished from existence after Minerva died to a crit.

31 minutes ago, gnip said:

10 Spd Darros? 10 Spd Darros.

Sailin' time.

31 minutes ago, gnip said:

George seems to be a pretty well-designed prepromote: Perfectly capable, but not quite as good as a trained growth unit. Although in this case, the "growth" units Gordon and Tomas have pretty bad growth rates, too, and their main advantage over George is the extra 14 Spd they get from promoting to Sniper. Still, a good example of a trade-off between less effort required vs. better results if you do put in some work.

• (I do appreciate that this translation doesn't try to fancify his name by spelling it with a J)

I used him until the end and I'm fairly certain he was better than Thomas by the end. He's also the rare unit with a unique portrait!

[Punished Dayni]

3 minutes ago, gnip said:

Darros after this game:

5 minutes ago, gnip said:

George seems to be a pretty well-designed prepromote: Perfectly capable, but not quite as good as a trained growth unit. Although in this case, the "growth" units Gordon and Tomas have pretty bad growth rates, too, and their main advantage over George is the extra 14 Spd they get from promoting to Sniper. Still, a good example of a trade-off between less effort required vs. better results if you do put in some work.

Imagine if the patch called him Giorgio

2 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I know they were still figuring things out at this point, but I really have to wonder what the thought process there was. "Okay, so we're gonna make it so the old hat men are just better than all the mages until chapter 18. Only then can the rest of them match base Wendel and start competing."

I could joke about Balance being Kaga's passion, but I do think there's some degree of intent with that. Both Merric and Linde come with personal tomes that do larger damage in a game where magic has set damage all the time, compared to Pope Hat and Cardinal 'Stache, until Chapter 12 where the boss drops Bolganone and it still does 1 less than Excaliber and has 30 less hit, Thoron ties it in Chapter 14 but neither have flying effectiveness, giving Merric that niche and Linde still hits for 20 each time. Bolganone only gets buyable in Chapter 16, Thoron only exists in Camus's hands, Gotoh's inventory and Chapter 17's secret shop and Swarm is effectively like Thoron in that it's in a secret shot, Gotoh's hands and a Bishop in Chapter 17 and exchanges 30 hit for 4 might. Now, these are all still fine. But I can see where the intent is here in Merric and Linde having these specific powerful options that have more uses than Bolganone and Thoron, with Swarm tying with Aura and the weight being also a factor (Aura is 7 weight, but that's one more than Bolganone and 2 less than Swarm and Excaliber ties with Thoron for all but having 10 more crit and 8 more uses).

36 minutes ago, gnip said:

3 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

"Me"? I thought Salamander was an old dragon deity that this guy worshipped.

Oh no, the Archanean dragon lore got more confusing.

I've already got a headache (in reality), I don't need more.

[ping]

23 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Ahh, the 20/20 argument. Nobody ever stops to consider all the contributions the pope was doing for 11 chapters while the growth unit was clawing their way out of No Promo Item Hell.

I mean, Marich doesn't need to reach 20/20 to use Excalibur, and given how many enemies, including bosses, are slowed down so much that Marich can double them at base, he has the ability to deal 26 damage the most physically bulky enemy types, with perfect accuracy, which Wendell simply cannot do (...until you get the big non-personal tomes, but, well, I haven't). And similarly (if later and I'd expect less immediately powerful), Linde's Aura just hits really fuckin' hard.

By no means do I want to argue that Wendell isn't overall significantly better than the unpromoted mages. But it's not a Pent vs. Nino situation, where the prepromote is just better in every way until you've fed every kill to the growth unit for five maps. Because magic's only stat dependency is Spd, to see if you double, and occasionally HP/Def to see if you survive a counterattack, Wendell can't just out-stat the personal tomes that Marich and Linde come with.

(and now Dayni has already given a more detailed response. I'll still keep this in)

31 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I used him until the end and I'm fairly certain he was better than Thomas by the end. He's also the rare unit with a unique portrait!

Probably depends a lot on how much the +2 Spd eventually matters. With George joining earlier and Tomas needing two levels to just unlock Sniper, I wouldn't be surprised if George has a small advantage in the other stats, but he'd need to pull a Darros to also mach Tomas's Spd.

13 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

Imagine if the patch called him Giorgio

I see your Giorgio and raise you György

[Saint Rubenio]

41 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

I could joke about Balance being Kaga's passion, but I do think there's some degree of intent with that. Both Merric and Linde come with personal tomes that do larger damage in a game where magic has set damage all the time, compared to Pope Hat and Cardinal 'Stache, until Chapter 12 where the boss drops Bolganone and it still does 1 less than Excaliber and has 30 less hit, Thoron ties it in Chapter 14 but neither have flying effectiveness, giving Merric that niche and Linde still hits for 20 each time. Bolganone only gets buyable in Chapter 16, Thoron only exists in Camus's hands, Gotoh's inventory and Chapter 17's secret shop and Swarm is effectively like Thoron in that it's in a secret shot, Gotoh's hands and a Bishop in Chapter 17 and exchanges 30 hit for 4 might. Now, these are all still fine. But I can see where the intent is here in Merric and Linde having these specific powerful options that have more uses than Bolganone and Thoron, with Swarm tying with Aura and the weight being also a factor (Aura is 7 weight, but that's one more than Bolganone and 2 less than Swarm and Excaliber ties with Thoron for all but having 10 more crit and 8 more uses).

Yeah, the mages' personal tomes do help them a lot, but... what about the healers, then? Aside from Lena's arbitrarily exclusive access to hammerne, they just have nothing lol

27 minutes ago, gnip said:

I mean, Marich doesn't need to reach 20/20 to use Excalibur, and given how many enemies, including bosses, are slowed down so much that Marich can double them at base, he has the ability to deal 26 damage the most physically bulky enemy types, with perfect accuracy, which Wendell simply cannot do (...until you get the big non-personal tomes, but, well, I haven't). And similarly (if later and I'd expect less immediately powerful), Linde's Aura just hits really fuckin' hard.

By no means do I want to argue that Wendell isn't overall significantly better than the unpromoted mages. But it's not a Pent vs. Nino situation, where the prepromote is just better in every way until you've fed every kill to the growth unit for five maps. Because magic's only stat dependency is Spd, to see if you double, and occasionally HP/Def to see if you survive a counterattack, Wendell can't just out-stat the personal tomes that Marich and Linde come with.

(and now Dayni has already given a more detailed response. I'll still keep this in)

Nah yeah, all jokes aside, Merric and Linde do have their strengths thanks to their tomes. I mean, I did use Rinda in my run alongside Wendell, Boa and Riff. She did some great things from time to time. I just fucking love the fact that the old man is such a powerhouse, it's hilarious.

28 minutes ago, gnip said:

I see your Giorgio and raise you György

The Spanish fanslation called him Georges.

Yeah, there's more than one apparently. It's actually the French equivalent of George which actually fits him really well

[Shaky Jones]

1 hour ago, gnip said:

Shaky after realising that an extensively trained [magic girl] can dish 40 points of damage in a single round of combat, which Wendell is physically incapable of:

Gnip when Linde misses her 90% Aura that couldn't double with 7 weight as Wendell swiftly liberates Altea with his 100% light thoron.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

There is more going on again on this map compared to the previous ones, which is nice - chokepoints, enemy pirates that are less constricted by these chokepoints than the player, more than just one spot in which your units clash with the enemy'

I used to not like this map as a newbie, but I've grown to really like it nowadays. Kaga competence is back on the table. Let's enjoy it while it lasts before we reach FE4.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

The boss is basically a joke if you have Marrich or Wendell around, and using Excalibur here was honestly a bit of a waste. Mars wasn't even anywhere close in order to seize, anyway.

At least he looks badass.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

It's maybe a bit waste to warp Julian across here, considering that he probably just would've taken like 3-4 extra turns to get there after Mars reached the throne, but I am a bit impatient with this sort of stuff. This one chest way out of the way of any other relevant location is probably my biggest gripe with an otherwise solid map.

Like I'm not spending 10+ turns re-arranging my convoy here.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

Hey, I forgot that she's making an appearance this early in the game, despite not joining for another five maps or so.

Not a criticism of this translation, which I know tries to be as faithful to the original as is reasonable, but I have to say I like the official localisation of the pegasus sisters as the "Whitewings". It just has a nice ring to it and is nice and thematic.

They would be.

Defame Minevera on Serenes, and the trio will show up and spam reply to defend her.

1 hour ago, gnip said:

George seems to be a pretty well-designed prepromote: Perfectly capable, but not quite as good as a trained growth unit. Although in this case, the "growth" units Gordon and Tomas have pretty bad growth rates, too, and their main advantage over George is the extra 14 Spd they get from promoting to Sniper. Still, a good example of a trade-off between less effort required vs. better results if you do put in some work.

• (I do appreciate that this translation doesn't try to fancify his name by spelling it with a J)

I'm mostly positive George is a good unit in this game. He's supposedly good in FE11 too, but I find it funny that sniper Wendell is actually better. FE12 Jeorge is pretty good, aside from horrendous luck, and I appreciate the support he has about how blatantly obvious it was of Hardin wanting him to die having a sniper be a defending unit with locked 2 range.

53 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I know they were still figuring things out at this point, but I really have to wonder what the thought process there was. "Okay, so we're gonna make it so the old hat men are just better than all the mages until chapter 18. Only then can the rest of them match base Wendel and start competing."

I was gonna comment on this, but luckily the others did the nerd emoji tier writing for me this time.

54 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

You cannot reach, I'm too tall.

And then I punch ya to try getting you to crouch downwards

56 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Ahh, the 20/20 argument. Nobody ever stops to consider all the contributions the pope was doing for 11 chapters while the growth unit was clawing their way out of No Promo Item Hell.

Half the time we criticize elitists for overhyping mounts and base stats over fun meme units and builds.

Half the time we are the elitists.

57 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

"Me"? I thought Salamander was an old dragon deity that this guy worshipped.

We dun it. We fiddled the riddle.

59 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I used him until the end and I'm fairly certain he was better than Thomas by the end. He's also the rare unit with a unique portrait!

What if you want a team of entirely identical faces?

37 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

I could joke about Balance being Kaga's passion, but I do think there's some degree of intent with that. Both Merric and Linde come with personal tomes that do larger damage in a game where magic has set damage all the time, compared to Pope Hat and Cardinal 'Stache, until Chapter 12 where the boss drops Bolganone and it still does 1 less than Excaliber and has 30 less hit, Thoron ties it in Chapter 14 but neither have flying effectiveness, giving Merric that niche and Linde still hits for 20 each time. Bolganone only gets buyable in Chapter 16, Thoron only exists in Camus's hands, Gotoh's inventory and Chapter 17's secret shop and Swarm is effectively like Thoron in that it's in a secret shot, Gotoh's hands and a Bishop in Chapter 17 and exchanges 30 hit for 4 might. Now, these are all still fine. But I can see where the intent is here in Merric and Linde having these specific powerful options that have more uses than Bolganone and Thoron, with Swarm tying with Aura and the weight being also a factor (Aura is 7 weight, but that's one more than Bolganone and 2 less than Swarm and Excaliber ties with Thoron for all but having 10 more crit and 8 more uses).

24 minutes ago, gnip said:

I mean, Marich doesn't need to reach 20/20 to use Excalibur, and given how many enemies, including bosses, are slowed down so much that Marich can double them at base, he has the ability to deal 26 damage the most physically bulky enemy types, with perfect accuracy, which Wendell simply cannot do (...until you get the big non-personal tomes, but, well, I haven't). And similarly (if later and I'd expect less immediately powerful), Linde's Aura just hits really fuckin' hard.

By no means do I want to argue that Wendell isn't overall significantly better than the unpromoted mages. But it's not a Pent vs. Nino situation, where the prepromote is just better in every way until you've fed every kill to the growth unit for five maps. Because magic's only stat dependency is Spd, to see if you double, and occasionally HP/Def to see if you survive a counterattack, Wendell can't just out-stat the personal tomes that Marich and Linde come with.

(and now Dayni has already given a more detailed response. I'll still keep this in)

Good thing I waited.

I like how out of the ordinary this feels for game balance when compared to other FE titles, but I enjoy how unique this feels when making each unit stand out in their own way while letting the oldies still shine as they rightfully should be. Granted, they really skewed the game in H A T ' S favor, but it makes each mage decently powerful in their own way and accounts for availability with Merric and Linde being carried by powerful tomes to compensate for worse stats and an unforgiving promotion time that can allow for them to stand out in the lategame carrying decent stats in their bishop class alongside overpowering spells (assuming they haven't broken it). FE3 sort of follows this with Merric and Linde keeping their strong spells while Yubello has better growths, but I prefer how goofy FE1 handles it honestly.

That said, Wendell reigns supreme. You cannot deny the pope! His hat triumphs over all petty anime mage girls. Nyeheheheheh! Ruben, laugh with me!

and then fe1 curates/clerics get the world's biggest shaft to suffocate on

[Saint Rubenio]

2 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

Good thing I waited.

I like how out of the ordinary this feels for game balance when compared to other FE titles, but I enjoy how unique this feels when making each unit stand out in their own way while letting the oldies still shine as they rightfully should be. Granted, they really skewed the game in H A T ' S favor, but it makes each mage decently powerful in their own way and accounts for availability with Merric and Linde being carried by powerful tomes to compensate for worse stats and an unforgiving promotion time that can allow for them to stand out in the lategame carrying decent stats in their bishop class alongside overpowering spells (assuming they haven't broken it). FE3 sort of follows this with Merric and Linde keeping their strong spells while Yubello has better growths, but I prefer how goofy FE1 handles it honestly.

That said, Wendell reigns supreme. You cannot deny the pope! His hat triumphs over all petty anime mage girls. Nyeheheheheh! Ruben, laugh with me!

and then fe1 curates/clerics get the world's biggest shaft to suffocate on

I was about to go "what about the healers though," then I reached the end.

I shall laugh with you. Gwah hah hah!

[Punished Dayni]

1 minute ago, gnip said:

(and now Dayni has already given a more detailed response. I'll still keep this in)

Hey, you articulated clearly, I wanted to go into specific details, we cover more ground, that's cool.

9 minutes ago, gnip said:

I see your Giorgio and raise you György

Jorj

Just now, Saint Rubenio said:

Yeah, the mages' personal tomes do help them a lot, but... what about the healers, then? Aside from Lena's arbitrarily exclusive access to hammerne, they just have nothing lol

Yep.

Considering MotE, Kaga hates Wrys apparently. And Maria. And Elice. Even Lena, considering Hammerne's now exclusive to Mallesia.

1 minute ago, Shaky Jones said:

Good thing I waited.

I like how out of the ordinary this feels for game balance when compared to other FE titles, but I enjoy how unique this feels when making each unit stand out in their own way while letting the oldies still shine as they rightfully should be. Granted, they really skewed the game in H A T ' S favor, but it makes each mage decently powerful in their own way and accounts for availability with Merric and Linde being carried by powerful tomes to compensate for worse stats and an unforgiving promotion time that can allow for them to stand out in the lategame carrying decent stats in their bishop class alongside overpowering spells (assuming they haven't broken it). FE3 sort of follows this with Merric and Linde keeping their strong spells while Yubello has better growths, but I prefer how goofy FE1 handles it honestly.

HATS

Holy

Arcanists

Terminate

Soldiers

Such power, much hat.

[ping]

4 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

Considering MotE, Kaga hates Wrys apparently. And Maria. And Elice. Even Lena, considering Hammerne's now exclusive to Mallesia.

I'm sure Kaga likes Maria and Elice and Lena (and Nyna), he just loves mind control scenarios even more.

[Saint Rubenio]

11 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

Yep.

Considering MotE, Kaga hates Wrys apparently.

I can't believe Kaga has no taste in characters.

11 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

HATS

Holy

Arcanists

Terminate

Soldiers

Such power, much hat.

10/10

That's amazing, I wish I had come up with that.

5 minutes ago, gnip said:

I'm sure Kaga likes Maria and Elice and Lena (and Nyna), he just loves mind control scenarios even more.

Kaga realized Riff was too cute to mind-control, so he had to cut him from existence.

[Shaky Jones]

49 minutes ago, Punished Dayni said:

56 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Yeah, the mages' personal tomes do help them a lot, but... what about the healers, then? Aside from Lena's arbitrarily exclusive access to hammerne, they just have nothing lol

Yep.

Considering MotE, Kaga hates Wrys apparently. And Maria. And Elice. Even Lena, considering Hammerne's now exclusive to Mallesia.

53 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

was about to go "what about the healers though," then I reached the end.

Ruben. I just found out why we love New Mystery so much. It's the only game that truly respects Wrys. FE1. Absolutely done dirty. Kaga didn't even try to make curates usable past chapter 4. Wrys is literally "the walking heal staff until Wendel". Using him anyway is bloody hilarious, but then FE3 outright removes him, proving that Kaga never saw anything more than a heal in him. FE11 gives Wrys a better shot, but New Mystery? Bro gets the greatest set up in the prologue, serves as your lifesaver for Kris's first trials, then gets his own gaiden chapter which is actually well made unlike most x chapters in fe12. They cared man. He even says his iconic line there for the sake of fanservice to a very specific set of FE fans, as if the axe boys triangle attack isn't enough to make me happy. FE12 just cares! It respects my boys! I love it.

Fe11 is great, but only fe12 lets you use fighter Wrys. That and wrys's high res in dsfe is actually extremely useful in lunatic runs. Bro swept lategame meteors and Gharnef like flies. This is our proof of being based and bald-pilled when anyone argues fe12 bad or worse than fe3.

36 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

10/10

That's amazing, I wish I had come up with that.

Wait, you haven't been meaning to say that this whole time? Its the secret code!

41 minutes ago, gnip said:

I'm sure Kaga likes Maria and Elice and Lena (and Nyna), he just loves mind control scenarios even more.

Lena going from practically unpromotable cleric whose hammerne can't repair things you actually want repaired to hypnotized damsel in distress. Such love.

[Saint Rubenio]

1 hour ago, Shaky Jones said:

Ruben. I just found out why we love New Mystery so much. It's the only game that truly respects Wrys. FE1. Absolutely done dirty. Kaga didn't even try to make curates usable past chapter 4. Wrys is literally "the walking heal staff until Wendel". Using him anyway is bloody hilarious, but then FE3 outright removes him, proving that Kaga never saw anything more than a heal in him. FE11 gives Wrys a better shot, but New Mystery? Bro gets the greatest set up in the prologue, serves as your lifesaver for Kris's first trials, then gets his own gaiden chapter which is actually well made unlike most x chapters in fe12. They cared man. He even says his iconic line there for the sake of fanservice to a very specific set of FE fans, as if the axe boys triangle attack isn't enough to make me happy. FE12 just cares! It respects my boys! I love it.

Fe11 is great, but only fe12 lets you use fighter Wrys. That and wrys's high res in dsfe is actually extremely useful in lunatic runs. Bro swept lategame meteors and Gharnef like flies. This is our proof of being based and bald-pilled when anyone argues fe12 bad or worse than fe3.

Oh yeah, the folks making FE12 clearly liked Wrys a great deal. Other characters get thrown in there in the most random, dumbest ways possible. Wrys gets a whole lot of love.

1 hour ago, Shaky Jones said:

Wait, you haven't been meaning to say that this whole time? Its the secret code!

Shhhh you can't just say it man

[ping]

• FE1 Chapter 10 - Princess Minerva

Spoiler

____

"But first: Walk. Walk around the map. Then walk some more."

__

Unfortunately, this map shares a big feature with, for example, Book 2, ch.3, or BinBla's ch.8: Several turns of just running forward, before even engaging a single enemy. And then you engage a single enemy - a Thief, who is actually kind of tight to catch up to in time.

After that, the one-tile chokepoint into the fortress is all yours to abuse, which would make the map both trivial and reaaaaaally slow. So we're not doing that, of course, which makes this part of the fight more interesting: With a few cavaliers from the left and some flyers (two Wyverns and two Pegasi, I believe) from the right, you're caught in a bit of an imperfect pincer manoeuvre - imperfect the enemies don't hit you all at once.

It's more like two cavaliers (already dead in the picture) attacking, plus Minerva sitting there daring you to absent-mindedly attack the wrong Wyvern; then two actually hostile wyverns arriving on the next turn, then the two Pegasi, then another two Cavs. As long as you have units that can deal with the Wyverns quickly (which I do - Marich and Wolf), this isn't too difficult to solve.

Inside the fortress, the Sniper is actually a pretty big threat if you aren't paying attention. He hits really hard with 18 Atk and with a respectable attack speed of 8. In fact, he would've cleanly one-rounded Mars (22 HP, 7 Def, 7 AS w/ Iron Sword) if given the chance, although the single HP Mars gained in his level-up during the fight would have changed that, if healed to full.

But Kain is still faster, setting up an easy kill for... Roshe, I think.

Following this, a small group clears the remaining incoming enemies outside the fortress, while a smaller group goes with Mars to recruit Maria: Julian to open the two doors (he can grab the treasure afterwards), Kain to fight the Hero (they're tied in Spd, so it's a good match-up for him), Wendell to heal, and Caesar to stand around looking pretty. He was (and still is, at the end of the map) carrying around some tomes and staves, and at this point, I just moved him because I knew that there would be reinforcements near our own starting location.

JAPAAAAN! *shakes fist*

(to be fair, since Mars doesn't reciprocate Maria's (nor later Chiki's) crush at all, I don't really have a problem with these little childish infatuations.)

__

Once Kain beat the Hero (with Wendell thundering from a safe distance once or twice), the rest of the map plays out pretty easily. Raddy picks up the HeroProf that the Hero dropped on the way...

...and while reinforcements eventually appear, they're too late to hinder Julian from grabbing the two treasure chests.

Once I had the freedom to do so, I left a path for Minerva towards Mars pretty consistently...

____

...so after the boss is killed (with Darros, Roshe, and Maji grabbing some chip XP) and Mars finished his trip through the fortress to the throne, I only had to delay seizing for one turn in order to let Minerva recruit herself and let Julian grab the second chest.

__

Victory!

(and a small typo)

The Team:

	Lv  	HP  Str Skl WLv Spd Lck Def
Mars	7.14	23    8   7   6   9  11   7
Kain	12.75	29    9  10  14  14   7   8
Wryf	10.88	18    1   5   4   7   2   3
Maji	8.77	25    8   5   6  11   6   7

Darros	11.49	29   10   2   8  10   6   8
Julian	6.25	29    6   8   2  14   9   4	(+9 HP)
Marich	7.77	23    1   5  10   8   7   7
Roshe	9.65	24    8   9   9   9   4   7

Wendell	2.32	22    3   1  11  14   5   8
Wolf	3.79	18    5   5   6   9   5   4	(base)
Banutu	1.76	18    2   3   2   4   1   3	(base)
Raddy	5.42	20    7  10   8  11   2   6

Caesar	3.00	base
Maria	3.00	19    2   2   8   2   7   4	(base)
Minerv	1.44	22    9   3  10   6   4  14	(base)

• Sheeda will come back to the team - but since it's still a long time until she can promote and she's already fairly close to Lv.10 , it's not too urgent to feed her XP, and with 3 Str, she's not exactly putting out huge numbers even with a Silver Lance right now. Wolf for effective damage and Caesar for distributing stuff were a bit more useful than her this map.
• Maria starts with 8 WLv, enough to use any staff in the game, making training/promoting her even less important than it is for Lena. Otherwise, staffer/10.
• Minerva's most impressive stat is obviously her excellent Def, which is one point higher than even Roger's. She can also use every sword and lance except for the Gradivus at base. Otherwise, her base stats are decent, but not great - but they still allow her to hit fairly hard (and with an Iron Sword, she'll still double a decent chunk of the enemies), and a tank with her mobility is obviously a lot more useful than a tank with Roger's mobility. Her growths are actually fairly good - not quite Xmas Cav good, but still very solid all around. Honestly, she seems to join as one of your strongest units, although I think I'd give Kain the edge as the best unit right now thanks to his much better Spd.

 

[Shaky Jones]

37 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

Oh yeah, the folks making FE12 clearly liked Wrys a great deal. Other characters get thrown in there in the most random, dumbest ways possible. Wrys gets a whole lot of love

Dr. FE12: I fucking love Wrys!

3 minutes later...

Dr FE12: I fucking HATE Horace!

23 minutes ago, gnip said:

"But first: Walk. Walk around the map. Then walk some more."

__

Unfortunately, this map shares a big feature with, for example, Book 2, ch.3, or BinBla's ch.8: Several turns of just running forward, before even engaging a single enemy. And then you engage a single enemy - a Thief, who is actually kind of tight to catch up to in time.

Oh my goodness, that is so much worse than I remember. Thank goodness FE11 moved down the spawn location.

26 minutes ago, gnip said:

After that, the one-tile chokepoint into the fortress is all yours to abuse, which would make the map both trivial and reaaaaaally slow. So we're not doing that, of course, which makes this part of the fight more interesting: With a few cavaliers from the left and some flyers (two Wyverns and two Pegasi, I believe) from the right, you're caught in a bit of an imperfect pincer manoeuvre - imperfect the enemies don't hit you all at once.

It's more like two cavaliers (already dead in the picture) attacking, plus Minerva sitting there daring you to absent-mindedly attack the wrong Wyvern; then two actually hostile wyverns arriving on the next turn, then the two Pegasi, then another two Cavs. As long as you have units that can deal with the Wyverns quickly (which I do - Marich and Wolf), this isn't too difficult to solve.

It is a bit pathetic that you can just abuse the chokepoint, but I otherwise love this map. Something about it makes me enjoy it a lot. Maybe the split paths and introduction of added promoted enemies to test your stronger units. There's definitely a bias I have given that h5 in fe11 makes this the chapter that throws in silver weapons. Combine that with the introduction of Minerva, and the following two maps being the end of what is basically the first arc of the game, this feels like a pivotal moment in a game I love, or at least the DS version. I still felt cheerful playing through this having said memories flush in but in 8-bit style knowing this is what started the awful franchise I'm obsessed with.

The pincer thing is cool enough, even if the execution could've been better. I dunno. I just really like this map, even though it has flaws and could be way better. I'll stop rambling now.

33 minutes ago, gnip said:

JAPAAAAN! *shakes fist*

Me when Japan:

37 minutes ago, gnip said:

Maria starts with 8 WLv, enough to use any staff in the game, making training/promoting her even less important than it is for Lena. Otherwise, staffer/10.

In some games, staffer/10 is S tier. In this game, it's Not Wendel tier. I suppose you once again need to account for death by random crit. Imagine your luck leading to all healers dying. Unlucky.

38 minutes ago, gnip said:

Minerva's most impressive stat is obviously her excellent Def, which is one point higher than even Roger's. She can also use every sword and lance except for the Gradivus at base. Otherwise, her base stats are decent, but not great - but they still allow her to hit fairly hard (and with an Iron Sword, she'll still double a decent chunk of the enemies), and a tank with her mobility is obviously a lot more useful than a tank with Roger's mobility. Her growths are actually fairly good - not quite Xmas Cav good, but still very solid all around. Honestly, she seems to join as one of your strongest units, although I think I'd give Kain the edge as the best unit right now thanks to his much better Sp

Unlike almost every female wyvern unit, I actually like Minerva. She's cool. How often does that happen? Just look at Miledy. They just yoinked Minerva's design and made her into Mid-ledy, only everyone will call her the best unit ever. I scoff. Jill? She was cool, until she stopped being racist. Unlike her, Minerva felt pretty fun to use. Great with swords and 2 range levins, but not like game breaking or anything. Growths and bases work perfectly for FE1's design methinks. Class makes her busted, but it's fair enough given her being of Macedon and all. She's a relevant character, but not blatantly made or written to be fanservice (not that units back in FE1 had any writing to begin with), and the Hauteclere in DSFE is such a kind gift to offer to Cord! You're too kind Minerva! 

Unfortunately, Ruben was bad at Minerva'ing. Sucks to suck.

[Saint Rubenio]

53 minutes ago, gnip said:

Unfortunately, this map shares a big feature with, for example, Book 2, ch.3, or BinBla's ch.8: Several turns of just running forward, before even engaging a single enemy. And then you engage a single enemy - a Thief, who is actually kind of tight to catch up to in time.

Initial positioning is important, devs.

...The problem with chapter 8 of FE6 is that a lot of its events (Cath, the Ostian trio) are timed based on those empty turns of walking. It adds layers to the task of trying to expedite the stroll around Ostia keep. Source: I accidentally made it impossible to save the Lilina equivalent in my soon-to-be-released hack lololololol

53 minutes ago, gnip said:

JAPAAAAN! *shakes fist*

(to be fair, since Mars doesn't reciprocate Maria's (nor later Chiki's) crush at all, I don't really have a problem with these little childish infatuations.)

I actually like the attitude they gave Maria in Shadow Dragon. Like a lot of things Shadow Dragon, she benefits from a group of translators willing to throw a bit of unnecessary flair into a lifeless script.

54 minutes ago, gnip said:

Minerva is super badass in this game. Legit tankier than the knights, and she flies. For reference, in the next map, there's a sniper with a silver bow. She can eat a hit from him and keep going.

...Provided she doesn't get crit. Sigh...

55 minutes ago, gnip said:

Aura is a tome only women can use, so obviously Mars is refering to how he personally crafted the book using his skills as a welder

10 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

Dr. FE12: I fucking love Wrys!

3 minutes later...

Dr FE12: I fucking HATE Horace!

Horace is such a tragedy. In Shadow Dragon, he stars in the best chapter's worth of writing in the entire game. He has so many good lines in his gaiden, the whole plot of it is such a cool concept, and Nyna delivers some equally awesome ones to him at the end. It's so fucking good and I'm so sad that it's relegated to a Shadow Dragon gaiden, of all things.

...Then in FE12 he's just a bore without a personality that joins in a chapter filled with zerkers with hammers. For years I had no idea the character had such robust writing in him, because I only had FE12 to go by. Yeah, I finished 12 before 11. Years before, in fact. For the pettiest reason too, I wanted to keep Frey but normal mode was boring. It was only when the full content patches began to come out that I finally got around to it.

11 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

In some games, staffer/10 is S tier. In this game, it's Not Wendel tier. I suppose you once again need to account for death by random crit. Imagine your luck leading to all healers dying. Unlucky.

Even then, Boa joins in two chapters. Wendel may be a promoted bishop 13 chapters before anyone else can promote, but Boa is one speed behind a promoted sage 6 chapters before anyone else can promote. Maria is still getting thrown into the bench at mach 10 speed the second that guy shows up lol

13 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

Unlike almost every female wyvern unit, I actually like Minerva. She's cool. How often does that happen? Just look at Miledy. They just yoinked Minerva's design and made her into Mid-ledy, only everyone will call her the best unit ever. I scoff. Jill? She was cool, until she stopped being racist. Unlike her, Minerva felt pretty fun to use. Great with swords and 2 range levins, but not like game breaking or anything. Growths and bases work perfectly for FE1's design methinks. Class makes her busted, but it's fair enough given her being of Macedon and all. She's a relevant character, but not blatantly made or written to be fanservice (not that units back in FE1 had any writing to begin with), and the Hauteclere in DSFE is such a kind gift to offer to Cord! You're too kind Minerva! 

Unfortunately, Ruben was bad at Minerva'ing. Sucks to suck.

I too like Minerva. She's quite a badass. I was so sad over her untimely demise that I made a point to bring her back with the Om over the other seven or eight chaps I lost.

...who then gets Kaga'd in Book 2 alongside the rest of the female cast, but they can't all be as blessed as Sylvis, I suppose.

[Punished Dayni]

7 minutes ago, gnip said:

After that, the one-tile chokepoint into the fortress is all yours to abuse, which would make the map both trivial and reaaaaaally slow. So we're not doing that, of course, which makes this part of the fight more interesting: With a few cavaliers from the left and some flyers (two Wyverns and two Pegasi, I believe) from the right, you're caught in a bit of an imperfect pincer manoeuvre - imperfect the enemies don't hit you all at once.

Okay, that's fair about this map.

6 minutes ago, gnip said:

JAPAAAAN! *shakes fist*

(to be fair, since Mars doesn't reciprocate Maria's (nor later Chiki's) crush at all, I don't really have a problem with these little childish infatuations.)

Maria be like:

How it affects Marth:

4 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

This has not worked with modern FE

4 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

Just look at Miledy. They just yoinked Minerva's design and made her into Mid-ledy, only everyone will call her the best unit ever.

Her character seems to fit the stereotype of how people see the BinB cast to be honest.

4 minutes ago, Shaky Jones said:

Jill? She was cool, until she stopped being racist.

Yeah, my experience with PoR Jill was messier.

What do you mean -6 Spd from average for most of the game?

6 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

...The problem with chapter 8 of FE6 is that a lot of its events (Cath, the Ostian trio) are timed based on those empty turns of walking. It adds layers to the task of trying to expedite the stroll around Ostia keep. Source: I accidentally made it impossible to save the Lilina equivalent in my soon-to-be-released hack lololololol

Waitwhat

7 minutes ago, Saint Rubenio said:

...who then gets Kaga'd in Book 2 alongside the rest of the female cast, but they can't all be as blessed as Sylvis, I suppose.

And she's one of the lucky ones.

[ping]

7 hours ago, Shaky Jones said:

The pincer thing is cool enough, even if the execution could've been better. I dunno. I just really like this map, even though it has flaws and could be way better. I'll stop rambling now.

As my old music teacher liked (and presumably still likes, he was known to repeat his jokes a lot) to quip: "Some things about it aren't bad."

I do think the map is decent apart despite all the walking about, and the "staggered pincering" does have the advantage that you're actually equipped to deal with it without using the degenerate chokepoint.

7 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

...The problem with chapter 8 of FE6 is that a lot of its events (Cath, the Ostian trio) are timed based on those empty turns of walking. It adds layers to the task of trying to expedite the stroll around Ostia keep. Source: I accidentally made it impossible to save the Lilina equivalent in my soon-to-be-released hack lololololol

Just give Lilina 20 Def. Boom, problem solved. Balance is a problem for future Ruben.

7 hours ago, Saint Rubenio said:

I too like Minerva. She's quite a badass. I was so sad over her untimely demise that I made a point to bring her back with the Om over the other seven or eight chaps I lost.

If it's any consolation, the Silver Bow Sniper on this map has 8 AS, so he would've doubled and one-rounded Minerva anyway.

...actually, I think you're misremembering a bit. Silver Bows have 11 might, which gets tripled vs. flyers, so Silver Bow Snipers have 40+ attack against flyers, which is enough to one-shot base Minerva's 22+14 physical bulk. The Sniper on the next map only carries a Crossbow, with 7 Str according to FEWoD, which would be 22 vs. Minerva, which would be 2x8 damage without a crit. Still impressive, though.

That said, "Crossbow" means that the Sniper had 25 crit, because making what's effectively a weaker Killer Bow standard equipment on enemies is fun and balanced, so you weren't even particularly unlucky to be crit there. Almost a coinflip, actually, at a 7/16 chance of at least one crit.

--

By the way, I completely forgot to mention stat boosters: We got and will soon get...

• a Goddess Icon (+7 Luck). Since Lck doesn't mitigate incoming crit rates, but increases your own crit chance instead, this would work best on somebody who already has a decent crit chance (i.e. Skl and Lck), but isn't close to capping Lck. The "correct" recipient, I think, might be Kain (10 Skl, 7 Lck), so I expect nobody to agree with this pick. Maji (5 Skl, 6 Lck) would be an option to appease the imperialist, or maybe save it for Tomas, who can use Crossbows to increase his crit.
• a Speed Ring (+6 Spd). This one is easier. Darros. Roshe would be an option, but he's fairly close to getting to 11 Spd from promoting, so I'd have to save it up until then. (again, I doubt that what I would think is the "correct" pick, Minerva, is going to be a popular option) (I could also let Linda have it, just to spite the imperialist)
• a Power Ring (+4 Str) from the boss in the upcoming chapter. Clearly, we're saving this for until Sheeda promotes. Realistically... probably Maji or Julian. Raddy, once he gets another Str proc to reach Hero's base, could be an option, too.
• a Manual (+5 WLv) from a chest in ch.12. Julian.
• the Boots (+4 Move) from another chest in ch.12. Mars. Sorry, I'm going to be boring here. I'd consider funnier options if other characters were able to visit villages.