Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

[Garlyle]

6 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Corrin is Hone Atk and Draconic Aura.
Azama is Pain and Martyr.
Olivia is a neutral-natured dancer and thus useful for following guides in case you got rid of your first free one.

I don’t see the reason for being so upset. Three Heroes quests have always rewarded from the original release pool.

Actually just disappointed rather than upset. I'll just collect the orbs from the quests and move along. (I have a 4* merged Olivia, sometimes it's more useful)

[Vaximillian]

7 minutes ago, Garlyle said:

Actually just disappointed rather than upset. I'll just collect the orbs from the quests and move along. (I have a 4* merged Olivia, sometimes it's more useful)

It never hurts to keep a base neutral 4★ Olivia around just in case.

[Diovani Bressan]

1 hour ago, Vaximillian said:

It never hurts to keep a base neutral 4★ Olivia around just in case.

Especially for GHB/BHB/LHB guides. A Olivia with IVs can easily change the enemy's team movement. I will keep the 4★ Olivia, since the one I use for guides is +Res/-Spd, so I needed to give her Speed+3 so she can have the neutral Spd.

[mampfoid]

1 hour ago, Diovani Bressan said:

Especially for GHB/BHB/LHB guides. A Olivia with IVs can easily change the enemy's team movement. I will keep the 4★ Olivia, since the one I use for guides is +Res/-Spd, so I needed to give her Speed+3 so she can have the neutral Spd.

I did something similar with my +HP/-DEF Olivia, which retired today officially. 

[Etrurian emperor]

This would have made for a pretty cute banner since its almost Smash time

 

[Vaximillian]

2 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

This would have made for a pretty cute banner since its almost Smash time

The day when the first collab comes will be the day when I quit, and I’m sure I won’t be the only one.
When there are so many characters from actual FE still unadded, diluting their chances by adding foreigners won’t be a good step.

[Diovani Bressan]

43 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

The day when the first collab comes will be the day when I quit, and I’m sure I won’t be the only one.
When there are so many characters from actual FE still unadded, diluting their chances by adding foreigners won’t be a good step.

I am with you... I wouldnt mind to see Fire Emblem Characters with Nintendo Characters costumes for a Seasonal Banner, but not others Nintendo Characters in FEH.

46 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

This would have made for a pretty cute banner since its almost Smash time

About this banner...

Spoiler

It would be good, so I could save orbs since none of them interested me. Pit's skill set is not that interesting, and Power of Flight would be changed for a better B-Skill. Actually, Power of Flight should be a C-Skill, like Armor March. Zelda skills set is meh. She should have a exclusive passive skill... like Farore's Wind (If unit's HP = 100%, unit can move to a space adjacent to any ally", or Nayru's Love (If unit receives consecutive attacks, reduces damage from foe's second attack onward by 50%). Kirby could also be a Staff user, and have the Star Rod, which make more sense, and Nova Dance should be exclusive to Kirby.

 

Also, why not Link? He would have the Master Sword, which grants Distant Counter effect when HP = 100% (reference to the Sword Beam)

 

Edited December 6, 2018 by Diovani Bressan

[daisy jane]

5 hours ago, mampfoid said:

Oh nice, a free neutral Olivia. I regretted long ago to not have kept a neutral version of her. 

me too! now i can train this one  for the F2P stuff (though my -atk Olivia isn't that bad). 

[mampfoid]

36 minutes ago, daisy jane said:

me too! now i can train this one  for the F2P stuff (though my -atk Olivia isn't that bad). 

I trained her to level 20 once and used Crystals twice to get her to level 40 at 4*. 

[Midnox]

Ugh, of all people to be in three heroes, one of them has to be Hazama 

[XRay]

Apparently, healers cannot use Steady Stance 4. That is just bullshit in my opinion. Healers are good, but they are not that good to the point that it warrants excessive skill restrictions.

[Ice Dragon]

@XRay Sounds like you missed the grouchiness in the banner thread the night the banner was released.

[XRay]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

@XRay Sounds like you missed the grouchiness in the banner thread the night the banner was released.

I did indeed miss it. I am just confused why they are nerfing staff units... the wrong way.

Atk/Spd Solo? Yeah, totally fine on Firesweep healers.

Make Azama/Wrys more fun to use? Nah, that is disgusting.

[Ice Dragon]

2 minutes ago, XRay said:

Atk/Spd Solo? Yeah, totally fine on Firesweep healers.

Solo skills are just the opposite of Bond skills, and Bond skills aren't restricted.

 

3 minutes ago, XRay said:

Make Azama/Wrys more fun to use? Nah, that is disgusting.

Staves already have access to Fortress Def/Res, Guard, and Witchy Wand. Not having access to Steady Stance 4 is not much of a loss.

[XRay]

18 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Solo skills are just the opposite of Bond skills, and Bond skills aren't restricted.

I know, but it did not stop them from restricting Flashing Blade to only infantry and armor units.

18 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Staves already have access to Fortress Def/Res, Guard, and Witchy Wand. Not having access to Steady Stance 4 is not much of a loss.

Yeah, but having Guard on the A slot IS a big deal. Depending on the Special and stats, Guard could be the equivalent of Bracing Stance 3/Fortress Def/Res 3 (or even higher) on top of Steady Stance 4's Def+8. It is the perfect skill for Azama and Wrys unless you want them to be Chill bait or Ploy user or something. With their B slot free, those two can run other skills to further improve their wallishness or support ability.

Edited December 6, 2018 by XRay

[daisy jane]

44 minutes ago, XRay said:

I know, but it did not stop them from restricting Flashing Blade to only infantry and armor units.

Yeah, but having Guard on the A slot IS a big deal. Depending on the Special and stats, Guard could be the equivalent of Bracing Stance 3/Fortress Def/Res 3 (or even higher) on top of Steady Stance 4's Def+8. It is the perfect skill for Azama and Wrys unless you want them to be Chill bait or Ploy user or something. With their B slot free, those two can run other skills to further improve their wallishness or support ability.

why can't they use them?

[Ice Dragon]

43 minutes ago, XRay said:

I know, but it did not stop them from restricting Flashing Blade to only infantry and armor units.

Restricting Flashing Blade to infantry and armor has no bearing on whether Atk/Spd Solo should be restricted to non-staff units.

The existence of exceptions don't suddenly mean everything must now deviate from the norm.

 

46 minutes ago, XRay said:

With their B slot free, those two can run other skills to further improve their wallishness or support ability.

Skills for non-armor units to wall are pretty much on every skill slot except the B slot. Renewal and Live to Serve are the only skills in that slot that really improve sustain.

The only particularly relevant support skills in the B slot are Chill skills, and those can be run by any member of the party with identical effect.

[Lewyn]

On 12/4/2018 at 6:46 PM, XRay said:

It works in reverse as well. Too much power creep can turn players off too, but you still need some to keep players summoning. In my opinion, I think the current rate of power creep is fine.

I don't think you need some to keep people summoning.  Different stat lines, different new skills, new unit types, interesting weapons, etc.  There are many ways to make people want to summon for a unit besides power creep which is just such a lazy way to do it.  IS should be better than that.

On 12/4/2018 at 7:34 PM, Ice Dragon said:

Reaching 180 has, since the beginning of this year, been a "when" and not an "if". Legendary Hero banners giving mostly-canon alts of notable characters and Grima being an armored dragon pretty much meant that Legendary Tiki was going to happen eventually and was all but guaranteed to be a trainee melee armor, which would fall in the 178-180 range.

The thing is that with the current system, there is no more space to move up without introducing a brand new modifier type, and the fact that they made the Adrift Corrins and Surtr into trainees instead of making a new modifier to boost their stats shows that they aren't yet willing to experiment with new modifiers. I personally don't believe Gen 3 is around the corner because, in addition to this, Gen 2 was first and foremost a means of rebalancing weapon range and movement range and only secondly a means of marketing new characters.

The next frontier is obviously more powerful skills, not higher stats.

I don't buy the BST was a way to rebalance movement/range, cause there were top tier armors like Hector before the new fighter skills and after Reinhardt Bow Lyn.  It seems more just a way to get whales to summon.

So do you believe then that the BST ceiling is 180?  I will be very surprised if we don't hit 185 at the least by the end of 2019.  

Also on duel skills though this is old hat, since it was brought up.  I think it in no way makes ranged units/other low BST units up to speed.  Not only do they score slightly lower, they don't actually get 170 of stats, they just score as if they do, so the 180BST Surtr is still 40 stats more than Bridal Ninian even if they have blue duel flying come out.  Then the worst part, the duel skill means pretty much giving up your A slot.  Instead of Death blow 4, Sturdy stance 4, Breath skill, whatever you get the garbage tier HP+5.  It is just a really poor solution and since they put it out now it is unlikely they ever fix arena scoring, it is always going to depend on BST.

New weapon refines.  I have a 5 star Catria+1.  Yes at one time long ago Catria was a 5 star summonable unit (4-5 star), and lucky guy that I was I summoned her twice during this period.  Both -atk of course.  My best one was -atk/+res.  I guess if the refine is really good I might look for an optimal IV Catria and spend the feathers to make 5 star then merge.  I also long time ago (a time before normal Ike even existed) promoted M Robin and built him up.  Hope his refine is good, I might do that as well.  Lot of refines here, hopefully they are worthwhile.

[Ice Dragon]

12 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

I don't buy the BST was a way to rebalance movement/range, cause there were top tier armors like Hector before the new fighter skills and after Reinhardt Bow Lyn.  It seems more just a way to get whales to summon.

If stat totals were not a way to re-balance movement range and attack range, then why is it that Gen 2 ranged cavalry have zero improvement to their stat totals compared to Gen 1 ranged cavalry?

If boosting stat totals were first and foremost a marketing ploy, all classes should have received a boost to improve the marketability of newer units over older units.

[DehNutCase]

1 hour ago, Lewyn said:

I don't buy the BST was a way to rebalance movement/range, cause there were top tier armors like Hector before the new fighter skills and after Reinhardt Bow Lyn.  It seems more just a way to get whales to summon.

Mind that I personally think armors are garbage without their Fighter skills, and with their Fighter skills they're around the level of melee infantry. (Ranged armors are great, though, and I rate them around Cordelia's level as niche, but important niches and also the best in those niches.) This is not because of their combat, which was always stellar, it's because I value mobility and support ability very high.

 

The tier lists, on the other hand, pretty much only care about how good a unit is at killing things, and ignore problems like 'how the hell is a Bold Fighter Hector ever hitting a healer'?

 

 

Regarding arena scoring, I have just one question.

Do you enjoy Aether Raids at the highest (3k ish) level? Because that's what any performance based Arena would look like, except worse because you can only use 1 team no matter what enemy team you get. I have no problems with an arena with that---I'll collect my free 1 orb and thousand or so feathers a week from being T21 and move on---but I'm pretty sure most people would cry if they had to fight through actually optimized defense teams all the time, with only one team to work with.

 

Duel Skills are just an implicit recognization that a lot of units can have a useless A-slot and still compete against armors from a performance standpoint, so they pass it out to let people play teams they want (if slightly nerfed), rather than just armors and dragons everywhere. By doing that it makes sure the top Arena defense teams are never actually as threatening as the best possible defense teams, which makes the mode a hell of a lot more fun for most people.

Yeah, 'technically' people like me are worse off because I can handle hilarious amounts of difficulty, but the point of FEH is to be a fun game, and having PvP game modes hilariously hard will make it fun for maybe 1% of the player-base. Much better to just give that 1% stuff like Tactical Drills, which are simple enough to just watch videos for if you just want the rewards, and difficult enough to be enjoyable for the hardcore.

[Ice Dragon]

8 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

The tier lists, on the other hand, pretty much only care about how good a unit is at killing things, and ignore problems like 'how the hell is a Bold Fighter Hector ever hitting a healer'?

Honestly, it's not a problem when you're used to playing with melee infantry and melee armor teams. The AI is dumb and not difficult to exploit.

Trying to play around a fully buffed Raudhrblade Windsweep Summer Tana on the waffle map, which heavily favors fliers, is still quite doable because the AI is very predictable once you've gotten it figured out.

[Lewyn]

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

If stat totals were not a way to re-balance movement range and attack range, then why is it that Gen 2 ranged cavalry have zero improvement to their stat totals compared to Gen 1 ranged cavalry?

If boosting stat totals were first and foremost a marketing ploy, all classes should have received a boost to improve the marketability of newer units over older units.

Mostly inexperienced players complained a lot about ranged cavalry, like Reinhardt was unstoppable or something even though he has a bunch of easy checks.  So to satisfy the masses rather than actually balance.  Unlike say brave bow bold fighter Jakob.  I mean that is why arena stages still have those annoying arena trenches even though ranged horses are relatively much weaker since they were implemented. 

 I mean if you are right and it is only about balance, then we won't get any units above 180BST ever.  

9 minutes ago, DehNutCase said:

Mind that I personally think armors are garbage without their Fighter skills, and with their Fighter skills they're around the level of melee infantry. (Ranged armors are great, though, and I rate them around Cordelia's level as niche, but important niches and also the best in those niches.) This is not because of their combat, which was always stellar, it's because I value mobility and support ability very high.

 

The tier lists, on the other hand, pretty much only care about how good a unit is at killing things, and ignore problems like 'how the hell is a Bold Fighter Hector ever hitting a healer'?

 

 

Regarding arena scoring, I have just one question.

Do you enjoy Aether Raids at the highest (3k ish) level? Because that's what any performance based Arena would look like, except worse because you can only use 1 team no matter what enemy team you get. I have no problems with an arena with that---I'll collect my free 1 orb and thousand or so feathers a week from being T21 and move on---but I'm pretty sure most people would cry if they had to fight through actually optimized defense teams all the time, with only one team to work with.

 

Duel Skills are just an implicit recognization that a lot of units can have a useless A-slot and still compete against armors from a performance standpoint, so they pass it out to let people play teams they want (if slightly nerfed), rather than just armors and dragons everywhere. By doing that it makes sure the top Arena defense teams are never actually as threatening as the best possible defense teams, which makes the mode a hell of a lot more fun for most people.

Yeah, 'technically' people like me are worse off because I can handle hilarious amounts of difficulty, but the point of FEH is to be a fun game, and having PvP game modes hilariously hard will make it fun for maybe 1% of the player-base. Much better to just give that 1% stuff like Tactical Drills, which are simple enough to just watch videos for if you just want the rewards, and difficult enough to be enjoyable for the hardcore.

Yup I like Aether raids, much better than arena at least.  Performance based Arena would be easier for offense teams though, wouldn't have a bunch of structures to severely limit how you can approach or bait enemy team.  Duel skills do allow people to use a wider variety of units in high arena, but again really lazy solution.  Ranged units need those A skills, armors are incredibly bulky with their ward stacks and such.  They should just throw BST out the window.  Only count rarity and merges.  Now I know coming with a precise formula that works is easier said than done, but considering this game is making hundreds of millions of dollars a year I'm sure the team can find the time to come up with it. 

[daisy jane]

9 minutes ago, Lewyn said:

Yup I like Aether raids, much better than arena at least.  Performance based Arena would be easier for offense teams though, wouldn't have a bunch of structures to severely limit how you can approach or bait enemy team.  Duel skills do allow people to use a wider variety of units in high arena, but again really lazy solution.  Ranged units need those A skills, armors are incredibly bulky with their ward stacks and such.  They should just throw BST out the window.  Only count rarity and merges.  Now I know coming with a precise formula that works is easier said than done, but considering this game is making hundreds of millions of dollars a year I'm sure the team can find the time to come up with it. 

i'm hoping to get there. 
I really don't know what to invest in, and just getting hammered by the L-R-V-A band sucks butt. 
(Lyn, Reinhardt, Veronica, Azura)

[DehNutCase]

17 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Honestly, it's not a problem when you're used to playing with melee infantry and melee armor teams. The AI is dumb and not difficult to exploit.

Trying to play around a fully buffed Raudhrblade Windsweep Summer Tana on the waffle map, which heavily favors fliers, is still quite doable because the AI is very predictable once you've gotten it figured out.

I mean, probably, but I still think tier lists should be targeted towards people who are just getting into the game rather than the people who are already quite good at the game. (Which means that people like Bow Lucina and Galeforce users should be rated a bit lower than pure performance, because Bow Lucina has some hilarious skill requirements to use at max potential.)

 

Like, the tier list is basically a worse arena calculator for me, but people swear by it for some god forsaken reason.

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Lewyn said:

Mostly inexperienced players complained a lot about ranged cavalry, like Reinhardt was unstoppable or something even though he has a bunch of easy checks.  So to satisfy the masses rather than actually balance.  Unlike say brave bow bold fighter Jakob.  I mean that is why arena stages still have those annoying arena trenches even though ranged horses are relatively much weaker since they were implemented. 

 I mean if you are right and it is only about balance, then we won't get any units above 180BST ever.  

Boosting the stats of new ranged cavalry doesn't boost Reinhardt's stats. Reinhardt would still be the same Reinhardt even if newer ranged cavalry came with higher stats. If they were going for marketability as opposed to balance, there is still zero reason to not boost the stats of new ranged cavalry. (Also, same with dancers. All dancers have Gen 1 dancer stats.)

In fact, for the purpose of marketability, there would have been zero reason to boost different classes by different amounts, yet they did:

• Dancer (regardless of movement type and weapon): +0 base, +0% growths.
• Ranged cavalry: +0 base, +0% growths.
• Melee cavalry: +0 base, +5% growths.
• Ranged flier: +0 base, +5% growths.
• Melee flier: +0 base, +10% growths.
• Ranged infantry: +1 base, +5% growths.
• Everything else: +1 base, +10% growths.

Given that the classes with more reach were given smaller stat boosts, it lines up more closely with an attempt to balance classes as opposed to improving marketability. In fact, if they wanted to boost marketability of new units more, they wouldn't have locked out dancers from Gen 2 boosts entirely, considering the sheer number of new dancers they've since implemented.