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Fire Emblem Heroes General Discussion and Links

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1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Are literally all the orbs gone? I see there's none available for the quest, but are they gone from the regular floor rewards on tap battle? Because I won't even bother doing it if that's the case (unless there's coins available).

Yup. We're getting shards, crests and I think badges. No orbs. The accessories are great if you didn't have them but nothing here for a long time player ><

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No Orbs from Illusory Dungeon? Hmm... some theories:

  1. Optimistic-realist: The lack of Orbs is only because this is an Encore, all future new IDs will have Orbs, Encores will not.
  2. Optimistic-fantastical: The lack of Orbs, like the shrinkage in monthly Orbs and the lack of a demotion on the last banner indicate something big and good is coming up that they haven't revealed. Whatever it is will compensate for the Orb losses.
  3. Pessimistic-ordinary: IS is being lazy and greedy, nothing more, nothing less.
  4. Pessimistic-snarky: Nintendo is trying to do its best to fulfill its goal of limiting microtransactions by reducing the number of FEH players.
  5. Pessimistic-pessimistic: Nintendo is already slowly shutting down Heroes. They intend to keep the lights on long enough for Writer-sama to finish his present, cherished story, but by year's end all players will be sent an alert that the game will soon be ending. Replacement gatcha project may or may not be hinted at, and who of Bamco, Cygames, and Square is at the helm, may or may not be known.

 

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Seems to me there are still way too many people spending a lot of money for Heroes to be slowly being shut down. 

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17 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

Seems to me there are still way too many people spending a lot of money for Heroes to be slowly being shut down. 

The game is doing terribly in the top grossing apps of ITunes when it comes to the US (it's a public ranking that can be seen by anyone on the ITunes page, SensorTower documents the rankings and puts them in a graph). Japan is still latching on tho. Money is still money, but it's very likely it'll never reach the amount of success the Halloween banner had ever again. For IPhone users at least

Edited by redlight

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19 minutes ago, redlight said:

The game is doing terribly in the top grossing apps of ITunes when it comes to the US (it's a public ranking that can be seen by anyone on the ITunes page, SensorTower documents the rankings and puts them in a graph). Japan is still latching on tho. Money is still money, but it's very likely it'll never reach the amount of success the Halloween banner had ever again. For IPhone users at least

How terrible is terrible enough to be insufficient from IS's perspective?

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28 minutes ago, Othin said:

How terrible is terrible enough to be insufficient from IS's perspective?

To give perspective. Legendary Marth's, Tiki's and Halloween banner got single digits in both regions (the game supposedly was good at getting those ranking in it's earlier days or at least the first year). Eirika, Hrid, Adrift, Conquest and Muspell had one region in the high 10s/low 20s and the other low/mid 10s. Doorway to Destiny had one in the mid 10s (US) and JP single digit. Onto the more current times. Laguz royals and Fates beast are rather even with mid 20s in US region and single digit in JP. BiB high 30s in US and single digit in JP. Duma and Roy are rather even with both being low 20s in US and either breaking (Roy was 9) or not breaking (Duma was 10) into single digits in JP. Fates was a fucking disaster with 54/19 ranking. Valentine's was as lackluster as BiB in US region and JP was in the low 10s.

From what I remember seeing about the rankings several months ago was that Muspell is more well received in the west than they are in Japan, but the opposite is true for Nifl.

Edited by redlight

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2 minutes ago, redlight said:

To give perspective. Legendary Marth's, Tiki's and Halloween banner got single digits in both regions. Eirika, Hrid, Adrift, Conquest and Muspell had one region in the high 10s/low 20s and the other low/mid 10s. Doorway to Destiny had one in the mid 10s (US) and JP single digit. Onto the more current times. Laguz royals and Fates beast are rather even with mid 20s in US region and single digit in JP. BiB high 30s in US and single digit in JP. Duma and Roy are rather even with both being low 20s in US and either breaking (Roy was 9) or not breaking (Duma was 10) into single digits in JP. Fates was a fucking disaster with 54/19 ranking. Valentine's was as lackluster as BiB in US region and JP was in the low 10s.

That doesn't actually give any perspective.

Rankings are meaningless unless you already have perspective on what a specific ranking means. In particular, information about exactly how low of a ranking a similar-budget game can have while still being sustainable.

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9 minutes ago, Othin said:

That doesn't actually give any perspective.

Rankings are meaningless unless you already have perspective on what a specific ranking means. In particular, information about exactly how low of a ranking a similar-budget game can have while still being sustainable.

What I meant by perspective is that several banners leading up to book 2 were in the 10s for the US region and now that were in book 3 it's 20+ usually with Azura managing to get 19 as an exception.

Of that part you're right about what x rank means in the grand scheme of things, but a huge shift in rankings is concerning nonetheless.

Edited by redlight

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19 minutes ago, Othin said:

That doesn't actually give any perspective.

Rankings are meaningless unless you already have perspective on what a specific ranking means. In particular, information about exactly how low of a ranking a similar-budget game can have while still being sustainable.

Sustainability isn't really the issue. Growth is. It'd be possible to make something like Heroes profitable for years, the question is how profitable. If there's a downward trend and the trend continues, then it's a case of "This game is making money, maybe even a lot of money, but it will never make as much money in the past, so resources are better spent working on another idea that will be a big hit." It's kind of like how TV shows are cancelled after a few years even if they're still quite profitable, it's just that the profits are slowly dwindling so it'd better to make a new show that will be more fresh for the audience. At least, that's one way of looking at it (some IPs clearly are run into the ground until they become largely unsuccessful).

Edited by Jotari

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24 minutes ago, Jotari said:

some IPs clearly are run into the ground until they become largely unsuccessful

Reminds of The Walking Dead. The franchise was most likely at it's peak around the time the first season of TTG's game concluded. There was still some magic in the franchise when the group of the TV series reached Terminus, but that was years ago. I think the actor of Rick left the show as well recently so that goes to show how long past the series is

Back on topic, ummm... What is there to talk about? Accessory reruns are nice, but couldn't you have replaced the badges with them instead of the orbs

Edited by redlight

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Hmm, I mean sooner or later we have to life with it that feh will shut down. Maybe the shortage of orbs could be a reason they let the binding blade banner stay for longer, so some players won't feel like they are pushed to spend on it. Not that its right to make assumptions, we just have to wait if they announce book 4 or give us a closing notification. But I think its to early to tune it down and give us a premonition about it. Book 3 still has some ways to go. If it would be 1-2 months before book 3 ends I think we could consider it more. 
 

 

Edited by Stroud

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8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Are literally all the orbs gone? I see there's none available for the quest, but are they gone from the regular floor rewards on tap battle? Because I won't even bother doing it if that's the case (unless there's coins available).

So far, only the first beat map has anything worthwhile - 10 Sacred Coins. The other beat maps I played so far (so up to the F36-40) only gave rewards we likely already have plenty of (Shards, Crystals, Duel Crests).

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8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Are literally all the orbs gone? I see there's none available for the quest, but are they gone from the regular floor rewards on tap battle? Because I won't even bother doing it if that's the case (unless there's coins available).

So far, only the first beat map has anything worthwhile - 10 Sacred Coins. The other beat maps I played so far (so up to the F36-40) only gave rewards we likely already have plenty of (Shards, Crystals, Duel Crests).

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8 hours ago, Jotari said:

Are literally all the orbs gone? I see there's none available for the quest, but are they gone from the regular floor rewards on tap battle? Because I won't even bother doing it if that's the case (unless there's coins available).

So far, only the first beat map has anything worthwhile - 10 Sacred Coins. The other beat maps I played so far (so up to the F36-40) only gave rewards we likely already have plenty of (Shards, Crystals, Duel Crests).

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1 hour ago, redlight said:

What I meant by perspective is that several banners leading up to book 2 were in the 10s for the US region and now that were in book 3 it's 20+ usually with Azura managing to get 19 as an exception.

Of that part you're right about what x rank means in the grand scheme of things, but a huge shift in rankings is concerning nonetheless.

That's true.

1 hour ago, Jotari said:

Sustainability isn't really the issue. Growth is. It'd be possible to make something like Heroes profitable for years, the question is how profitable. If there's a downward trend and the trend continues, then it's a case of "This game is making money, maybe even a lot of money, but it will never make as much money in the past, so resources are better spent working on another idea that will be a big hit." It's kind of like how TV shows are cancelled after a few years even if they're still quite profitable, it's just that the profits are slowly dwindling so it'd better to make a new show that will be more fresh for the audience. At least, that's one way of looking at it (some IPs clearly are run into the ground until they become largely unsuccessful).

It gets more complicated with something like Heroes, I feel like. They want FE fans to be interested in buying future FE games, which are the most likely other thing for Heroes' creators to work on. Heroes does have a limited lifespan, but if they let it die too fast, they risk a lot of backlash from players who put in time/money with the expectation of it having a longer run.

I've heard about 5 years is standard for gachas, although admittedly I don't know how much variation there is. (Or the circumstances around noticeably shorter-lived or longer-lived ones.)

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3 hours ago, redlight said:

The game is doing terribly in the top grossing apps of ITunes when it comes to the US

"Terribly" to me would be "losing money" not not being amongst the top grossing apps after 3 years. Of course it isn't going to get more popular. It isn't the shiniest new thing anymore.

Do they have another project to replace it with? Is it still raking in the cash? Is it still profitable? If so, I suspect it sticks around a while. 

 

Edited by Vince777

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54 minutes ago, Vince777 said:

"Terribly" to me would be "losing money" not not being amongst the top grossing apps after 3 years. Of course it isn't going to get more popular. It isn't the shiniest new thing anymore.

Do they have another project to replace it with? Is it still raking in the cash? Is it still profitable? If so, I suspect it sticks around a while. 
 

It's not outright losing money, but it's not necessarily earning the money that made a lot of things possible for the game before. If there is a huge shift in rankings then it is concerning. We don't know what they do with the money earned and how much of it is put back into the game, but earning less doesn't really spell the best possible future the game has were we to compare the current situation to a year or two ago.

Speaking from a business perspective, if FEH can't grow past it's first year then IS isn't getting enough wallets on their hands to help the project flourish better (they're relying mostly on the same people to keep on spending, hoping that they won't move on or stop spending), which could lead to them resorting to desperate tactics. Anecdotal evidence, but I've seen other gacha game communities and sure, there's the occasional gacha salt, but the feedback is rather good compared to FEH's. Maybe it's just the FEH community. Or IS DeNA (EDIT) does seem to mismanage the game from several people's point of view.

If I say terrible, I don't mean the game will die. It started out big, but it's just pathetic for such a big IP of Nintendo's to quite possibly fall into the generic gacha crowd. It'll still make money, just for how long is the question until they're at a point that they can't keep up the costs at the cost of delivering user demands to the game.

Edited by redlight

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28 minutes ago, redlight said:

If I say terrible, I don't mean the game will die. It started out big, but it's just pathetic for such a big IP of Nintendo's to quite possibly fall into the generic gacha crowd.

Honestly, calling FE big even today is a bit of a stretch in my opinion. At the very least, it’s maybe grown to be about on par with Kirby in regards to popularity.

Truly big would be Mario, Pokemon and Zelda, none of which FE will ever come close to matching in popularity.

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Fire Emblem is a strategy RPG series, let that sink in for a moment.  Of course it is never going to be has big as Mario or Zelda.  Those are games genres that the vast majority of the video gamers are into.  Meanwhile strategy RPG is far more niche.  

As far as Heroes falling with generic gacha crowd or whatever.  Like almost all the income come from whales, and likely for Heroes just like any other gacha game these people aren't hardcore fans of the property but just like gacha in general.  So while many of the players of Heroes may be FE fans, for most of the whales that it is Fire Emblem or Inspector Gadget or Captain Marvel doesn't matter at all as long as their are hot girls in seasonal outfits and interesting skills.  

Edited by Lewyn

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Did not expect to generate this kind of discussion with my worst case scenario option. That was not mean super seriously.

 

Apparently there was an interview with this game's directors recently. Some translated highlights.

Mostly generic to me, although they explained why they added Dragonflowers. I wonder what ideas they have in mind for adding a "social aspect" to this game?

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I wonder if FEH not being as profitable as it was in the first year has anything to do with the general loss of goodwill towards IS. Realistically, yes, I do realize that it's possible the game just ends up making less over the years because it's not "new and shiny" anymore, but after what they pulled with Ayra (and only getting one demotion per banner starting with Sacred Stones) there just seems to be a general cynicism towards IS that wasn't really there before in the early months of the game.

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Can someone tell me what the rewards are for each Tap Battle stage? I want to know if this is even worth my time. I may try for a new accessory, but with no orbs being gained from this I don't see the point in even wasting my time with this mode.

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21 minutes ago, Zeo said:

Can someone tell me what the rewards are for each Tap Battle stage? I want to know if this is even worth my time. I may try for a new accessory, but with no orbs being gained from this I don't see the point in even wasting my time with this mode.

First stage has some coins, but otherwise expect to receive mostly shards and crystals.  No orbs anywhere, and the accessories aren't new either.

I complained about BHB reruns in the past, but at least those give some orbs.  This is just pointless.

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8 hours ago, redlight said:

The game is doing terribly in the top grossing apps of ITunes when it comes to the US (it's a public ranking that can be seen by anyone on the ITunes page, SensorTower documents the rankings and puts them in a graph). Japan is still latching on tho. Money is still money, but it's very likely it'll never reach the amount of success the Halloween banner had ever again. For IPhone users at least

 

8 hours ago, Othin said:

How terrible is terrible enough to be insufficient from IS's perspective?

They can only milk alts for the same dozen or so characters before diminishing returns set in people are put off from spending money.  I don't know what the development costs are for FEH, but I imagine is still has to be pretty profitable at the moment.

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You know, the only time I spent money on this game was when I got some gift cards as a present because I have absolutely nothing else to spend them on. In other words, even when the game was in a more generous state I wasn't technically even spending my own money. I dropped my last 15 dollars from a gift card on the Greil's Devoted banner because that's the kind of stuff I wanted to see. (Got four 5-stars with very little orbs spent from it too, including a perfect Valentine's Ike so it was well worth.) But at this rate, I won't even spend the money from gift cards if I receive them again.

Which is too bad, I was willing to spend my own money for Tormod and Rath if they ever got added, but I'm not sure if they'll actually show up AND I'm annoyed enough with the game to not spend the money.

If we just knew what the developers' logic for Heroes was, maybe we'd understand what the fuck they're doing. Even if the feedback-to-profits response may not have been all that apparent when the Ayra debacle happened, surely they couldn't have noticed that people were not pleased with the second anniversary and that people are not happy with losing f2p orbs either. They couldn't really be this stupid, right?

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