We Need Serenes Forest Mafia Mafia 5 After All! - GAME OVER

[Percivalé]

when you guys role claim can you character claim too pretty please with sugar on top

I just woke up and I'm mega behind when's deadline 

[Snike]

Sure;

While I don't have a problem with the way he ended up softclaiming. I guess that might be part of why he is suspected.

My case is as follows;

He starts the satsuma push on page 5-6, and despite there being a significant interaction on that wagon I found that his read on sats didn't really change in the 5-6 pages between his first window and second window of activity. He does shift on Athena but there's little to no discussion on why that is at that point. His recent stuff has also been opportunistic (look at the vote swap last page!) and his actual stated reads on a few people are shallow. His claim's also kinda scummy imo.

@Vi-astra deadline's in just under 100 minutes.

[Percivalé]

all right

I have been struggling keeping up with the game so I hope the content I've been managing suffices 

I'm going to read the athena cases again because I've only got a gut feeling something is there but I've been hanging on marth and zeus for so long

@Refa I'm rethinking zeus aa little because he more recently looks like bad town than bad scum, but the reason his "don't vote me anymore" bugged me so much is it read like newbscum trying to placate someone he knew would feel bad to unite him & felt self-conscious/paranoid over one vote which I think new scum getting paranoid over only one or two votes on them is something that happens more often an than not

I'm incoherent so pardon me

[Percivalé]

unvote, not unite*

[Percivalé]

I keep forgetting bart is a wagon too. I don't mean to ignore him legit I'm just bad at mafia 

if I were to consolidate on one of the two by sheer intuition before actually looking into them again when I get back I think it'd be bart

[Mystic Arcanum]

12 minutes ago, Snike said:

Sure;

While I don't have a problem with the way he ended up softclaiming. I guess that might be part of why he is suspected.

My case is as follows;

He starts the satsuma push on page 5-6, and despite there being a significant interaction on that wagon I found that his read on sats didn't really change in the 5-6 pages between his first window and second window of activity. He does shift on Athena but there's little to no discussion on why that is at that point. His recent stuff has also been opportunistic (look at the vote swap last page!) and his actual stated reads on a few people are shallow. His claim's also kinda scummy imo.

@Vi-astra deadline's in just under 100 minutes.

I'm in agreement with the majority of this, particularly the comments on his voting patterns. The claim I also didn't see until now and I'm wondering why he wouldn't claim that at the start of the day considering it's arguably even worse than ascetic.

I was asking more specifically about what would be learned from a Bartozio lynch today specifically, but I'm seeing the chance to get more of a clue about Marth/Athena via voting patterns and so I'm more supportive on a lynch of either of Bart/Athena. Incidentally this makes my thoughts mirror Snike's from the skim of the last page I was able to do, so I want to say there's a light, mindmeld-based townlean there but I've not been able to go through Snike's ISO. I'm going to actually go home now and should be back before deadline.

[Percivalé]

my role involves people's characters so when you claim could you claim your character too please

[Athena_57]

34 minutes ago, Snike said:

@Bartozio @athena_57, just because you've claimed doesn't mean you're out of hot water. Keep talking.

 

I'm here again. I voiced most of my reads, is there anything in particular you want me to talk about? Ask away.

22 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

when you guys role claim can you character claim too pretty please with sugar on top

I'd warn Snike about not killing himself ;)

[Percivalé]

Just now, athena_57 said:

I'd warn Snike about not killing himself ;)

I don't know what this means

[Percivalé]

OH 

now I know

[Snike]

tbh I kinda want to lynch myself to see how I got roasted

Also @Vi-astra Now it's Miaou Time!

[Bartozio]

2 minutes ago, Vi-astra said:

my role involves people's characters so when you claim could you claim your character too please

I'm Shinori. Something about shouting at people who visit me.

3 minutes ago, Fenrir Aesir said:

The claim I also didn't see until now and I'm wondering why he wouldn't claim that at the start of the day considering it's arguably even worse than ascetic.

I mean, I claimed people shouldn't visit me because of my role. I just didn't clearly state why.

[Percivalé]

I really wanna know who got me. I'm so desperate to know lmao

[Athena_57]

 

@Snike So... no questions? You seemed kind of eager to question me and Bart.

[SB.]

Day 1.Almost Deadline Votals
athena_57 (5): Snike + SatsumaFSoySoy, Shinori, eclipse, Fenrir
Bartozio (5): Jaybee, WeaponsofMassConstruction, BBM, Zkirsche, athena57
Magnificence Incarnate (3): Walrein, vi-astra, Bartozio
Junk (2): Magnificence Incarnate, Refa
zeus_112 (2): Bibbon, Fable
Jaybee (1): Nightmare
Zkirsche (1): Junk
Shinori (1): Elieson
Bibbon (1): zeus_112
Fable (1): Eurykins

Not Voting: Eärendil

You have ~1 hour left in the day. With 22 alive, it takes 8 to lynch and 15 to hammer.

Edited April 12, 2018 by SB.

[Athena_57]

@SB.

Double-checking, shouldn't there be 5 votes on me?

[SB.]

1 minute ago, athena_57 said:

@SB.

Double-checking, shouldn't there be 5 votes on me?

Yeah I caught that and it's fixed now.

[Snike]

god this forum software is trash

@athena_57 you still have my response post + the kirsche request to respond to. Do you think bart or marth's claims are more suspect? Give out some final reads maybe?

[Eurykins]

Hrrrm. I'm not sure about all of these reactive interrupting roles so far. Not feeling great about the claims atm.

13 minutes ago, Bartozio said:

I'm Shinori. Something about shouting at people who visit me.

LMAO. Shinori shouting at people is pretty legit. He likes to do that.

##Unvote 

I need to go back and re-read both Bart and Athena, since those two seem to be the top candidates today. Getting some food and then will see who I'm consolidating on today since Zeus/Bib/Fable seem unlikely to occur today (the last one is sort of improving though, so may have shifted slightly lower on priority in general).

[Nightmare]

Eesh, I'm late.

Having read the past few pages, I'd like to do an ##Unvote on JB. There's more content now, but he's not entirely off my radar as scum. I think there are bigger priorities right now, but man I kind of feel bad about most of the current wagons. I don't know, maybe I missed something.  Most of these people are blurring into each other as far as I'm concerned.

Junk is an interesting case though. Honestly as I said before, it seems he's just being himself and I can't really tell if he's town or scum just from this. This post, however...

15 hours ago, Junk said:

So turns out I mainly missed page 18 not 17 and 18. Kirsche's new post doesn't change my mind. It's just null. Some stuff about bibbon (btw what do you actually think of the slot kirsche) and then a minor read on eclipse and his read on nightmare seems more like pressure to get him to talk which isn't significant.

For the rest of the page I pretty much said what BBM already said in my post and eclipse's logic is pretty good in regards to marth. Snike's posts about athena are also pretty good.

So yeah p18 in general just reaffirms my reads. 

How exactly does kirsche's new post(s) reaffirm your reads on him? Why doesn't it change your mind? I'd like you to expound on that, because it doesn't make much sense to me right now.

9 hours ago, Eurykins said:

> Chewing into Nightmare's Post @Nightmare A few questions if you don't mind:

1. You seem to dismiss Zeus's plays based on being inexperienced town- okay. Why not as newbscum? Which alignment benefits more from not bothering actually attempting any sort of meaningful content, activity level/quality, or scum hunting? And if he is inexperienced as you say he is, why would he attempt to crumb something like a vig role? (Why attempt to do something like that, but not employ generic townie mafia gameplay of trying to offer reads or look for suspect things? Seems odd to me.)

2. Bibbon town read notion seemed fine (though I'm not sure I agree with it) until you seemed to doubt yourself with a backpedal "might actually be scum Bibbon" comment. Kinda dropped weird vibes there, in terms of not being sure if you wanted to commit to that town read or not?

3. Both the notions on Satsuma and Marth basically just note spectating reactions and not offering any reads currently. Also not quite sure what you meant by "interesting" regarding cases around Satsuma. Care to elaborate? Are the cases on Marth making you start to lean towards a semi-scum read on him? Or is he (and Satsuma) still in the null zones?

4. Regarding JB- you said his attempts to "escape the scum reads"? As in, avoiding giving/making scum reads for association tells? Or trying to avoid having other players looking at him in a scummy light? Wording was a bit weird for me, sorry, but trying to figure out why the vote you chose to make is on JB in this post.

5. Lackluster posts from BBM, but still seems like town. Lackluster in what way, and is it something that you feel would be considered noteworthy enough to influence your read at all on his slot?

Sure thing.

1. It makes sense when you put it that way. In general though, I feel like it could also be someone who's very unmotivated as well, in addition to the other things. Granted, it's more productive to think of it as a scum play than a newbtown, which is why I'm not entirely against a lynch or a vig on him.

2. I just don't really know Bibbon personally, and don't know how she usually plays. In general, pretty much all my current reads are on the fence and I can't honestly commit to any of them. I'm having trouble thinking of a good vote right now too.

3. Satsuma is still more or less null. I was honestly expecting more, but what I saw let me down. I'm not overly impressed with his reads (mostly surface level stuff; granted, I'm guilty of this too), but it's not enough for me to consider him definitely scum. I've been slow to read the new content, but what I saw of Marth made me lean more towards town for him than scum, so that's a no go as far as wagons go for me.

4. No worries. He just didn't really give any good rebuttals or defence for his behaviour when he was called out, and what he did give was very lacking and thin. He has been posting more and with more content since, as I mentioned.

5. No, not particularly noteworthy. I was just not especially impressed with his content in the first couple of hours (I think, not sure about the time frame, but early D1), because he didn't seem to say much of note. It was the first couple of hours, however, so I don't really blame him. I think he's gotten better since then. The town read was mostly from tone and the activity/engagement he did seemed like something more townish than not.

 

Whew. With all that out of the way, I guess if I had to do a comparison of cases presented vs. defences for them, I guess Junk is the most suspect one. He hasn't really tried to defend himself or anything (at least, as far as I saw; I was rushing a bit because I was scared of the deadline), and his posts just don't say much in general, besides all the things he's got against him (flaky, etc.), so I'll stake my bets here.

##Vote: Junk

[BBM]

Fine with keeping my vote on bart. The role feels kind of like a scum implementation because for example if he gets inspected by a cop the cop would get hooked the next night so that gives scum some breathing room. I don't feel it's as useful for town because even if he gets killed by mafia it doesn't block the kill the next night; they would just have someone else take the kill. Compare to marth's role, where if he's shot, mafia basically lose a kill because it takes two nights to resolve.

[Athena_57]

10 minutes ago, Snike said:

god this forum software is trash

@athena_57 you still have my response post + the kirsche request to respond to. Do you think bart or marth's claims are more suspect? Give out some final reads maybe?

Er, kind of missed it contained questions, my bad.

2 hours ago, Snike said:

-So then why not let the other members of the thread do that instead? I understand you want him to contribute but what you did was essentially pad the thread.

If we're talking defense you're doing the same thing here; why should I give you credit?

I mean people did comment about satsuma, and no one was biting, so moving the vote would be an ok play there to add more pressure. What I was more getting at is why didn't you say more on your change of opinion?

Why is it ok when zeus doesn't content, later in the game, but not ok when satsuma doesn't within the first 5-6 pages?

- ;/ So why say anything? I'm going to disagree with @eclipse here because I think that is suspect bc it's a lowkey flame and then no follow-up to apologise or update a read once OP JB delivered.

 

Bit of a weird question. Why let others, e.g. why not do it myself?

Because at least in the beginning it was just me pressuring him, it only started going two ways later (from that point on you're right)

Not sure what line this is referring to exactly, could you point me towards it?

I don't like it with either of them, but in Zeus's case it's what I expect from him. In a vacuum I'd say it's scummy, but knowing Zeus it's NAI. Also, whilst my case was started about lack of content, it got picked up again because I felt their later posts were bad.

I said something because it was an impulsive "joke", I didn't think about it. I didn't update a read because there wasn't one. I didn't apologise because I'm kind of a douche and/or forgot about it. (At first at least, and it felt weird to apologise a bunch of pages later).

As for Kirsche, I mostly agree with him, it is indeed weird the way Junk is "hogging" his vote. I don't have too much to add, so mostly sheeping here, but Junko is amongst my slight scumreads.

I already said I felt Marth's claim made me feel more town about him.
Bart's claim I'm not sure on, I don't think it differs too much from ascetic alignment-wise (e.g. NAI)

Final reads are the same as my last post, with only minor shifts due to Bart's weird voteswap. Haven't read Nightmare's post yet though, so that could change things.

[Athena_57]

@Nightmare

Phase end is in 30 minutes, junk isn't getting lynched today probably. (Though I wouldn't be opposed to a turbo if it were still possible).

Isn't it better to vote either me or Bart?

Rest of the post is fine, kind of bothered neither of the 2 lynch candidates are being discussed though.

[Snike]

I am not convinced by above, but I think BBM has a point about the role implementation. Athena also cut out my bit about the quote mine.

I'll consolidate on bart but for reals does anyone else want to input here?

@Nightmare We're not turbo lynching junk today. IMO it's Bart or Athena. Do you have an opinion one way or another?

 

[SB.]

30 minutes remain in the phase. With the votals as they stand, there will be no lynch.