Super Smash Bros Universe Mafia

[Shinori]

What did I do? Do you think I'm scum also clipsey? =(

[Grace]

Yep. Right down the Marthwagon. I'd like as good a read off of everyone on that wagon as possible, because I honestly can't tell if Marth's actions are because he thinks that's good town play or because he's scum.

Shinori, try this. Since you've explained your reasoning, she doesn't have to push it later.

reading too stronk

[Shinori]

Oh, I noticed that but didn't think of it when clipsey replied. Thanks manix!

[eclipse]

What did I do? Do you think I'm scum also clipsey? =(

Thanks to your earlier posts, I think I've got enough of a read on you.

[Shinori]

I am curious what your current read is on me if you don't mind. If you want to keep it to yourself that's fine, but I'd like to hear everyone's current thoughts on me as of the moment.

[Naglfar]

I suppose I'd better explain. I think it's pretty clear what my intentions were, though. Read the post with my vote in it.

I never intended to lynch Marth (though that may change, let me finish my analysis first) and I don't think anyone else on the wagon did either. He voted Blitz and implied he had a reason to do so, or at least that he "found him scummy". My vote, at least, was intended to pressure him into explaining his vote or at least saying something meaningful. Obviously, this hasn't worked at all. What I do next depends on the results of my analysis, particularly my analysis of Marth.

[eclipse]

Okay, that sounds good. I like you much better than Manix. Now, then. . .

##Unvote

##Vote: Excellen

Last on the list, and the dude that voted right after Naggy. Would like to hear more than "I'm gonna sit on my opinions until I see a good opportunity to use them" and "hey everyone's scummy".

[Kaoz]

Votals

[1] Subieko - Iris

[1] Naglfar - Blitz, eclipse

[0] Iris - Subieko

[1] San - Shinori

[2] Helios - Psych, Subieko

[1] SeriousBananas - Manix, Subieko

[0] eclipse - Bluedoom, Strawman

[2] Cap'n Flint - Bluedoom, Serious Bananas, Naglfar

[0] BigBangMeteor - Manix

[0] Psych - Blitz, Subieko, StSS

[1] Shinori - Proto

[1] Daigoji Excellen - eclipse, Psych, Blitz, Manix

[0] Elieson - eclipse

[0] Manix - Psych, Excellen, eclipse

[3] Bluedoom - Elieson, Naglfar, Excellen, Manix, Shinori

Not voting - Bizz, Folgore Pink, BBM, Helios, San, StSS

If I listed something wrong, please let me know.

Day ends in 47 hours, 22 minutes. Remember to choose a stage for the night in your Role PMs.

[Kay]

What opinions have you said on other players? I linked your 5 posts in this game Kay. I understand not posting that much, I haven't done so that much in this game but look at the above. Out of your five posts, I was mentioned, not much, Marth was mentioned, you responded to excellen and you responded to naglfar about nothing really involving opinions whatsoever. You haven't stated that much of your 'opinions' on anyone in this game except the bit focused towards marth and myself. A list isn't necessary but I know you are better than this, and you know that as well.

Also I wasn't insulting you at all, I'm just annoyed that people are saying I'm scummy for being the supposed 5th person to vote someone when I didn't see anyone better at the time because I hadn't been around and I hadn't read the thread. Oh and supposedly I was echoing.

So please though how are your opinions clear? You think I'm scum and/or unhelpful and you think marth is town that was just probing for a reaction from people? Because that's all I see from your current posts.

Yeah, because I didn't really have very much of an opinion on anyone except you and Marth. There hasn't been that much discussion.

[Shinori]

Really? So then curiosity sakes by those standards that means the only opinion I should have had would have been on marth, which I had stated. Which means when you asked me to state my opinions you didn't actually expect anything, logically speaking. If there hasn't been that much discussion how do most of the current players already have reads on multiple people. A lot of people are talking yet there isn't much discussion? My vote stays on you for now because that's some faulty logic in my eyes.

Anywho. I'm gonna go to sleep and try to wake up soon so i can play Tales of Graces f again.

[Blitz]

Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

why the heck do you care about what Eclipse thinks of you?

[eclipse]

This is page 11. Surely you have reads on a couple more people? Right now, Marth's wagon looks like one questionable person and two fairly townish ones.

[Blitz]

I have nothing better to do (except rereading and I am bored of it already), so I thought I should tell you that the reason Marth might find me suspicious (if he actually does find me suspicious) is probably cause I am trying to not make idle post and as you can see, it is not working that well

also, stupid Shinori seems to have gone to sleep.

[Kay]

Really? So then curiosity sakes by those standards that means the only opinion I should have had would have been on marth, which I had stated. Which means when you asked me to state my opinions you didn't actually expect anything, logically speaking. If there hasn't been that much discussion how do most of the current players already have reads on multiple people. A lot of people are talking yet there isn't much discussion? My vote stays on you for now because that's some faulty logic in my eyes.

No, I thought you might have seen stuff I hadn't. That's kinda how discussion works. And yes, I know I should have had more opinions, but most of them just were pretty neutral and I thought Shinori was saying I hadn't posted my opinions about anything.

[Excellen Browning]

Okay, that sounds good. I like you much better than Manix. Now, then. . .

##Unvote

##Vote: Excellen

Last on the list, and the dude that voted right after Naggy. Would like to hear more than "I'm gonna sit on my opinions until I see a good opportunity to use them" and "hey everyone's scummy".

What's up with the attitude eclipse.

[eclipse]

What's up with the attitude eclipse.

Same to you.

[Blitz]

What's up with the attitude eclipse.

Same to you.

I can't believe I reloaded the page for just these two posts

I was gonna hit the post button and realized the lame rule against me so, I will add the next bit

so, Subi actually looks worse than my initial read cause she really seems to not want to get onto anyone's bad side

[Bluedoom]

Ok, so I'm back and I see the thread has got another 5 pages since I last saw it.

First off it was obviously a reaction test, albeit I did find Blitz scummy for that Naglfar vote he left with and a bit of stuff he had with Naglfar( like talking about going off-topic, or maybe that post where he says he doesn't mind anyone choosing which stage he goes to, but he doesn't want to pick). All these assumptions about me are funny, because really you're going down the wrong track. I don't have any info on blitz, I never stated that I have info that none of you have, and I most certainly did not have a defeatist attitude. That was more of " Vote me if you want, but I won't give my reason." You ask why? Because we had 2 more days to go before end phase, and there's no reason for me to think I'd be lynched. I mean, really? Also why would I out why I think Blitz is scummy if he may be actual scum, would he not change his behavior? Either ways I'm outing this now because I haven't seen him do anything else except for the " he can vote me if he likes to" which I'm not sure about, but not worth keeping my vote on atm. ##Unvote

I'll need to re-read the thread because I need to read more on Subieko's and SB's posts, even Timp's. But curently, Shinori is rubbing me off the wrong way, and I mean REALLY bad. Let's see, I don't like why you're questioning me on why ' I seem to not care' because it could hint anything, and I feel like you were fishing over here for something useful to you, if you were scum. I also don't like how you started grasping about me: Look man, I have a life, I have school. I can't come immediately online and say " HEY GUYS IT WAS A REACTION TEST KAY WAS RIGHT!" I also never said I had info you don't, so really, I'd like to hear your say now.

[Bluedoom]

Oh yeah, I also sorta encouraged votes on me. It takes good amount of thinking to get a super-huge wagon on me without being suspicious, so there's a chance we can catch mafia.

[Naglfar]

Alrighty, have this half-assed whatever the fuck this thing is. There are questions in here, please answer the ones that are addressed to you, I don't want to have to keep track of who has and hasn't answered.

Subieko

It's really not surprising that Bananas reacted calmly to your vote, he was under relatively little scrutiny and your aggressiveness was Fluttershy Tier (You're mafia! I-I think...). Then you got distracted and voted for somebody else. You need to think about what you really want to achieve with your vote. You were kind of defensive early on too. You have a habit of overusing "imo" and negating your own points which isn't helping you make people take you seriously. It's not hard to imagine that you're scum trying to play it safe.

Iris

iris postgame more you have two posts. All I can reliably pull is that you think Subieko is scum, and really, I see your point, her posts at the time didn't look very good and she hadn't even accused Bananas yet. In fact, one plausible interpretation of the way she proceeded is that she hastily picked someone to go after to shake off your suspicion. I think this answers your first question. To answer your second, I'll get to Marth at some point.

Proto

You brought up the stage thing and you misinterpreted the point of the Marth wagon. I don't understand how you came to the conclusion that Shinori was the scummiest player on it. Your interpretation of Marth's actions and motives before he revealed it as a reaction test kind of contradicted each other, but I think the relevance of that has disappeared.

Kay

You defended Marth pretty hard and seemed 100% convinced that what he was doing was a reaction test. Despite the fact that you were correct, what inspired such certainty in you? If Marth flips scum, it won't reflect well on you. You managed to twist Strawman's "hey guys I'm here, not lurking" post into "hey guys don't hold me accountable for what I say" and I have no idea how. I don't understand how you got that idea about Eclipse. You think Subieko looks town - why?

Helios

You have made exactly one post. Please refrain from parroting shitty blame-the-victim philosophies from 4chan. You yelled at Marth in a scumbuddyish way, so I'll have my eye on you as well if Marth flips scum.

Bananas

First thing you did was bring up numbers, that isn't a good start. You posted a huge quote wall without much of use past "blitz might be trying to set up a mislynch" and an order of suspicions. You then proceeded to get caught up explaining why you don't like Marth, and seemed scared of voting, then you... voted Blitz because you were told to. Don't vote because you're told to. What, exactly, do you have on Blitz? If it's flimsy, maybe you really have no business voting him and you should reconsider where your vote is. You smell of scum trying to avoid being at odds with anybody.

Eclipse

You're telling people to talk and explain themselves and you're accumulating reads, as you do. You don't like Manix, presumably because of his attitude and allegedly sheepish Bananas vote. You like me, and I think you like Shinori? I kind of wish you were a little more open with your reads. It always feels like you're on the outskirts of discussion.

Blitz

Because of how you've been votehopping a lot more than anything else, I have no idea what you actually think of anyone. You're suspicious of Subieko? There's not much else I can figure out despite your decent post count. I'd like to hear more about your reads and reasoning.

BBM

You've spent a fair bit of time dealing with Marth, and you haven't cast a vote yet. Apparently, you have townreads on Marth, Bizz and myself, you see Subieko as neutral, and you don't like Manix or Shinori for their being on the Marth wagon without very good reasoning in your opinion. You are another person who told Marth to stop being a tool without voting him, I didn't notice that there were this many.

bizuuuu

Your playstyle is kind of concise, like some kind of Mafia for Busy (bizzy?) People. It seems you go through the thread slowly and give your opinion on whatever catches your eye, which is nice. Apparently you like Marth, Excellen and me, with weird/icky feelings about Manix, Kay and Shinori. However, you are horribly behind. Please catch up at your soonest convenience.

Timp

Three posts! You've weighed in on the Marth issue but have done little else, and the wariness of Excellen you mentioned is probably obsolete by now. most pore plz

Psych

You didn't like Excellen at five in the morning. In your one post since the weed wore off, you managed to develop the opinion that the entire Marth wagon was scum and I don't even fucking know. You seem almost prepared to lynch Helios over his one post (see above); what of the other players who said similar things? You never posted once more with feeling like you promised and hey another another townread for me.

Shinori

You kind of freaked out the most over Marth's thing, and I think that made a lot of people suspicious of you. When this happened, you got noticeably defensive and then unvoted, clearly because you felt pressured to. I cannot begin to imagine why an experienced player such as yourself would ever just back down like that as town. Let me put it this way - you're not scummy because you were last on the wagon, you're scummy because you're jumpy as fuck, you tunnel too hard on Marth, and you seem to think yourself the victim of a scum gambit except it's so poorly thought out that I can tell you made that idea up on the spot. Apparently, the Marth wagon was started by scum (Marth himself may or may not be scum). Assuming this is true, judging by the timestamps, Manix would have placed her vote, then turned to the mafia role PM. "Excellen! Naglfar! Let's start a wagon on Marth," she said. We both agreed pretty quickly, neither of us stopping to question the idea for long enough to determine whether it was good or not. Or perhaps three is too many, but for your scenario, no fewer than two of Manix, Excellen and myself could be in on this because you're not getting much of a wagon going with just one vote. However, you display no suspicion whatsoever towards any of the three of us. This hypothetical mafia's plan was to have someone not on the wagon pretend to not like it, and accuse someone late onto the wagon, who turned out to be you. This would be a weak case any way you cut it but that didn't stop us. The trap was sprung when Kay called you out and declared what Marth was doing to obviously be a reaction test, and then, like all mafia trying to secure a mislynch, didn't vote you. Her accusation didn't even have much sting in it. You then voted her, not so much for your theory than the fact that she hadn't posted much of substance even though it's still early in the game. And to top it all off, you seem more interested in video games than paying attention to this game, making you one of the least useful townies at best. Did I miss anything? I got distracted by the Homestuck translation team halfway through this and now it's like 2:50am ugh

I'll finish this later. I know that a bunch of the most interesting players at this point are at the back end of the player list. But for now, I can't let this just slip by, and I need to sleep at some point.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shinori

One more thing: we know the story from most of the people who chose to vote Marth during his reaction test. What of those of you who didn't vote, but instead yelled at him or called him a stupid or whatever you did? Why did you take the approach of not voting?

[Subieko]

I need to stop sleeping so late while I'm in mafia games, haha...and now I have to go run errands.

After reading the new pages, I'm becoming suspicious of Shinori. He's tunneling quite a bit, first on Marth and now on Kay, and his reasoning about Marth is contradictory and doesn't make sense at points.

I said a few posts ago i would be fine if he would just tell me if he was probing for a reaction or not. I don't want him to reveal exactly what he said.

He says he voted Marth because he wanted an explanation of Marth's reasoning for his Blitz vote. This seems similar to what Excellen and Naglfar said--they wanted an explanation and were not trying for a lynch.

But then, replying to a post of mine:

What if this were plausible as a way for mafia to get town to start infighting. Have one scum say something about random person or another scum for the heck of it, get some scum to throw a few votes on him let the wagon start a bit and then put pressure on the slowest person to join on the wagon?

This was in response to me saying that Marth and Blitz don't make sense as scumbuddies because drawing so much attention to themselves would be too risky. But Shinori says that perhaps it was actually an attempt to start Town infighting by building a wagon on a hypothetical scum!Marth and then going after the last person on the wagon (ie, Shinori). That seems so convoluted and also really risky (since it would rely on having a scum have a wagon on them--why would scum want that on D1?), and it doesn't make sense to me. This seems like a rationalization for Marth being scum.

And then he kept going after Marth with this:

Marth basically stated that he did have info on blitz that we don't have. Either that or he was reaction testing and lied about it thus contradicting himself when he said "WHY SHOULD TOWN LIE THIS EARLY THEN?"

This also doesn't really make sense. Marth did not state that he had private info; he said that he had reasoning for his vote that he refused to explain. That reasoning could have come from anything, including stuff in thread. So it's not necessarily the case that Marth had private info. As for the second part, this is in reference to Marth's response to an earlier post of Excellen's, in which Marth questioned the value of Town lying to start discussion. Shinori is saying that if he was reaction testing, then he is lying and contradicting himself. But Marth was actually gone for quite some time and wasn't around to say whether he was reaction-testing or not. Further, it's not necessarily a contradiction if he was. Perhaps he a) did have some minor suspicions of Blitz had wanted to vote him to see what developed, or b) changed his mind and wanted to try out Excellen's idea. Either way, presenting this as 'either Marth has secret info or he is lying/being a hypocrit' is a false dichotomy and is bad reasoning.

Probable, most likely, follows meta, but then again if you look at meta I'm known as Scumnori and if I lead something the opposite side always wins, oh and third parties.

Then Shinori said this in response to me saying that Marth is probably Town who made a bad play. Shinori says here that Marth is most likely Town but maybe he's not because of some stuff I don't understand; because meta is wrong sometimes I guess? Not sure what the third party bit at the end is for--Shinori, are you saying Marth might be third party? In any case, this statement looks like Shinori is rationalizing why Marth has to be scum.

But when he unvoted Marth, he said this:

Fine if you don't want to press him for the info that he 'supposedly' has, don't, and I won't either. ##Unvote I still don't like it. Let me get my thoughts together on other players and I'll place a different vote.

He's presenting his vote on Marth as primarily a press for info, but in responding to me, he talked about how Marth could be scum. This feels contradictory--in some posts Shinori says his issue with Marth is info-hiding, in others he says Marth is scummy. His reasoning for voting Marth in the first place seems flimsy; although Shinori keeps insisting Marth said he had secret info, he never actually said that. And then he switched to Kay and started tunneling on her, over the fact that she was slightly suspicious of him and hadn't posted much yet. This seems like another flimsy vote, and OMGUS as well. And in his two replies to Eclipse, he seems worried about what people think of him, even saying he wants everyone to post their thoughts of him. Being overly worried about whether people are suspecting you is slightly scummy to me, particularly when combined with his bad reasoning against Marth and OMGUS on Kay.

I still want Helios to get back and post more than one post, but Shinori is more suspicious to me right now. ##Unvote, ##Vote: Shinori. Do you think Marth is scum, or not? If not, why did you talk so much about how he could be scum? If yes, why did you move your vote off him and on to Kay? And what are your thoughts on people other than Marth and Kay?

Other than that, I need to iso BBM when I get back from my errands because I can't remember much he's done other than defend Marth, and Eclipse's posts about Manix are bothering me.

Oddly enough, you were also the second vote on Marth, and look at how that turned out. Bananas looks horrid at the moment, but I'm willing to give him a chance to get in here and explain himself, because he's absolutely amazing at doing precisely what he shouldn't be doing (see: Shining Force Mafia, where it's always wisest to vote for the guy claiming town leader on D1).

My vote stays for now.

I find it odd that Eclipse says she that SB looks horrid, but is suspicious of Marth for thinking the same thing and voting based on that. If SB is horrid, why was Manix more suspicious?

This reeks of a scumtell ("I can get other people to vote for him, tee-hee~!") Or, I could be reading too far into a grammatical error. Either way, your reasons for voting Bananas are based off of other people's reasons, which, at best, is lazy. Combine that with your previous behavior, and it comes out scummy instead.

This bothered me as well. This was in reference to Marth saying he didn't know that others would vote for Marth after he did. Which isn't actually a grammar error I believe, since the votes on Marth happened in the past so now Manix does know that it happened; he didn't know beforehand. Calling that a scumtell doesn't make much sense and seems like a flimsy justification for finding Manix scummy. Also, in his previous post about SB, he pointed out several things that no one else had brought up yet (like his issue with SB talking about mafia outside contact). So he didn't just echo.

Maybe Eclipse was just doing this to get a reaction, but the reasoning seems off to me.

And now errands.

[charlie_]

I brought up the outside contact part because someone mentioned what it was like in the last mafia.

[eclipse]

I wake up to this?!

Oh yeah, I also sorta encouraged votes on me. It takes good amount of thinking to get a super-huge wagon on me without being suspicious, so there's a chance we can catch mafia.

Pull this in any game that I host and you'll be getting a scathing postgame, at minimum. Your job is not to make yourself look so bad that I have to second-guess everything. I'm really not happy with Excellen's vote, or his response to my vote, so my vote stays. If someone feels like conducting a Prims-style investigation on Marth, I won't mind.

This bothered me as well. This was in reference to Marth saying he didn't know that others would vote for Marth after he did. Which isn't actually a grammar error I believe, since the votes on Marth happened in the past so now Manix does know that it happened; he didn't know beforehand. Calling that a scumtell doesn't make much sense and seems like a flimsy justification for finding Manix scummy. Also, in his previous post about SB, he pointed out several things that no one else had brought up yet (like his issue with SB talking about mafia outside contact). So he didn't just echo.

Maybe Eclipse was just doing this to get a reaction, but the reasoning seems off to me.

I dislike this, because it's factually incorrect. First, I am a she. Second, look at the final quote here, and tell me how you managed to mix up Bananas and Marth. I don't mind assertions, but I do mind when they're incorrect, in an effort to paint someone scummy.

Can you guys vote at the end of your posts? Not sure 'bout the hosts, but it makes it easier for me to find votes when they're not nestled comfortably in the middle of a wall of text.

[eclipse]

I brought up the outside contact part because someone mentioned what it was like in the last mafia.

There's a nice argument 'bout you a couple of pages back. What do you have to say for yourself?

[Helios]

Scanned through the thread but don't really have the energy right now to say anything. If I feel better later I'll reread things thoroughly and drop some wisdom. Sorry everyone.