I Can't Believe It's Not SFMM3 Minimafia - Game Over

[Sunwoo]

it's also one less day we have to waste on a lynching the role that's designed to be mislynched

There are roles that are designed to be mislynched, and roles that just do absolutely nothing to help or hinder the town in any way. Power roles don't want to claim unless they have to because then they're outing themselves as a target to scum. Vanillas don't want to claim because it narrows down the pool of townies who can be PRs.

[CT075]

i'm miller

is there REALLY any benefit in me staying silent?

sure, it's one less person that could be cop

but if i don't claim then i get inspected and we spend a day mislynching me (which is arguably worse)

[Grace]

You have to look at the timing. Scum might start a wagon but that would probably be coincidental. Scum probably won't jump on a wagon that's already likely to result in a lynch if they don't have to, like the last vote or two, unless they're bussing. The middle few votes would be the most suspicious.

this entire argument makes no sense

It actually makes perfect sense. Avoiding wagons they know will flip town will make them look better on the flip. Scum will actually more likely start voting in wagons around the middle votes (seriously, check past games, the trend should be there). Scum generally don't try and start wagons because they will look bad when that wagon target flips.

[Sunwoo]

i'm miller

is there REALLY any benefit in me staying silent?

sure, it's one less person that could be cop

but if i don't claim then i get inspected and we spend a day mislynching me (which is arguably worse)

I'm not saying that you shouldn't have claimed miller if you are miller, Cam. I'm just saying that claiming simply because your role is "useless" is not always the best idea. We wouldn't want all the vanilla townies to claim on day 1 along with the miller because their role was useless, right?

[Grace]

i'm miller

is there REALLY any benefit in me staying silent?

sure, it's one less person that could be cop

but if i don't claim then i get inspected and we spend a day mislynching me (which is arguably worse)

but do note that miller is policy lynch later on if they claim, you do realize. sooooooo yeah

I'm willing to leave Cam be for now though

[CT075]

this is true but how does that even follow from "you have to look at the timing"

[scorri]

I think it is the correct thing to do to claim miller early or any other role that is potentially harmful to the town. This does include miller because miller is a waste of town's time more often than not. Sure it removes Cam from "power role" possibility, but it does more to benefit the town than it does the scum.

Moving on from that, I don't think that Kay voting Cam is for sure a bad thing, but I also don't quite like it. However, when I did start to get a little weirded out is when Cam got three votes on him. Two is more than enough to get the reactions desired from RVS, and three is just getting to be silly in a smaller game like this.

[CT075]

err i mean

how is that relevant based on the argument

[Grace]

this is true but how does that even follow from "you have to look at the timing"

the timing of the votes, I would think. which is what the argument stems from in the first place. (afaik)

[Helios]

You have to look at the timing. Scum might start a wagon but that would probably be coincidental. Scum probably won't jump on a wagon that's already likely to result in a lynch if they don't have to, like the last vote or two, unless they're bussing. The middle few votes would be the most suspicious.

I think I see what you're saying but that applies more towards later in the game than anything, not the RVS stage, wouldn't you agree? I don't see a point in arguing further though because based on your reactions meta suggests you look townish.

i'm miller

is there REALLY any benefit in me staying silent?

sure, it's one less person that could be cop

but if i don't claim then i get inspected and we spend a day mislynching me (which is arguably worse)

See this:

Also note that I'm not saying Cam shouldn't have claimed, just poking at his logic.

Point is I don't think anyone is arguing that Miller shouldn't claim Miller early.

[Helios]

Moving on from that, I don't think that Kay voting Cam is for sure a bad thing, but I also don't quite like it. However, when I did start to get a little weirded out is when Cam got three votes on him. Two is more than enough to get the reactions desired from RVS, and three is just getting to be silly in a smaller game like this.

I'm honestly surprised Weapons received zero attention for that where's Shinori he wouldn't let that shit slide

[Sunwoo]

I'm honestly surprised Weapons received zero attention for that where's Shinori he wouldn't let that shit slide

Manix voted Weapons (although I'm not sure if that's why he voted him for it).

I noticed earlier, but I was checking in on the game in class so I couldn't reply to that. And then I forgot about it until now. To be honest, I'm not entirely sure what he's up to. Kind of bantering with Manix and Elieson, then putting people on his "scumwatch" without elaborating why?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

When you wagon in RVS, you do not wagon to lynch the person you're voting, but to draw out reactions from people towards the wagon.

Case in point.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

*voting but rather to

[Sunwoo]

So you're saying that the more votes a person accumulates over RVS, the more likely that person will give a reaction than merely one vote will do (which does logically make sense)?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Not just that person. Look at how everyone was like "oh no, why would you wagon in rvs!"

[Helios]

When you wagon in RVS, you do not wagon to lynch the person you're voting, but to draw out reactions from people towards the wagon.

Case in point.

Don't get me wrong I agree, and I knew what you were doing. The reason why I'm surprised though is that usually people don't see it that way here on SF (at least through my experience) and it usually leads to RVS SUCKS AND DOESN'T WORK.

Btw you want to explain your scumwatch?

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Well the people who say RVS SUCKS AND DOESN'T WORK ironically are the people who make rvs work.

Hilarity ensues.

My scumwatch is like baywatch, but different.

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Let's go back here for now.

##Unvote, Vote: Elieson

[Elieson]

Not just that person. Look at how everyone was like "oh no, why would you wagon in rvs!"

Back from changing my wife's flat tire, and this is the post I log in to see.

Of course everyone is like "oh no why would you wagon in rvs!" Because yes you learn shit from it, but you have to risk sacrificing to the lambs in order to do so, when there are other, non-sacrificial ways to approach these things.

That way, votes actually matter, and you don't have to waste time trying to figure out who was serious about the "3rd" or "5th" RVS vote, and who was joking when they said "X, I don't like you today VOTE".

Because vote analysis is cool, and RVS vote analysis is stupid. The only thing you effectively learn from is from the last 1/3-1/4 voters, and that's an IF even at that.

[Paperblade]

If someone gets lynched because of an RVS wagon the town either has so much nonthinking dead weight that you weren't winning anyway or the mafia were incredibly blatant

Lynches don't happen by accident

[Elieson]

If someone gets lynched because of an RVS wagon the town either has so much nonthinking dead weight that you weren't winning anyway or the mafia were incredibly blatant

I'm under the impression that either of these are possible, based on past events and the dreaded inactivity, so I'd like to try to prevent that from happening

[WeaponsofMassConstruction]

Back from changing my wife's flat tire, and this is the post I log in to see.

Of course everyone is like "oh no why would you wagon in rvs!" Because yes you learn shit from it, but you have to risk sacrificing to the lambs in order to do so, when there are other, non-sacrificial ways to approach these things.

That way, votes actually matter, and you don't have to waste time trying to figure out who was serious about the "3rd" or "5th" RVS vote, and who was joking when they said "X, I don't like you today VOTE".

Because vote analysis is cool, and RVS vote analysis is stupid. The only thing you effectively learn from is from the last 1/3-1/4 voters, and that's an IF even at that.

I think you're scum purposely missing the point.

[Elieson]

Unless your point is "Let's build RVS wagons to inch pressure activity from anyone and everyone, not just the person being voted" or "let's risk things like random players who have had virtually no time to contribute anything, at all", then I need clarification.

I still don't see what you're trying to say. I think Manix and Kay have made their point in one post, while you have danced around the reasoning behind your motivation.

[scorri]

Yeah, but if Theatre is any indication, that's just what Weapons does, Elie.