Shining Force 2 Mafia: Game Over

[Snike]

[spoiler=Silly]manix are you my alter ego

tell the truth

why haven't I heard about this before now

And for those who cba'd to read my post, you're scum but since we practice equality here in mafia land, here's the tl;dr edition:

In conclusion, Prims is a prophet.

ALL HAIL PRIMS

@clipswagon part 2: Yeah uh I don't see eclipse as scum-sided because even though this is super-meta, she's cryptic in mafia on a good day. This doesn't strike me as out of the norm for her. Yes, I am aware that that is a shit reason, but I am not experienced in the ways of town-readfu. Take that as you will.

[Prims]

Eh, town reads aren't something you should look for anyway, they just spring up naturally while you're reading posts to scumhunt.

Votals, for personal reference:

MancerNecro (5) - eclipse, BBM, Shinori, Snike, Prims

BBM (2) - Mancer, SB

Rocker64 (2) - Levity, Xinnidy

Serious Bananas (2) - Manix, Helios

Bluedoom (1) - Sho

Helios (1) - scorri

Lucina (1) - Proto

Xinnidy (1) - Bluedoom

Voteless Scum (6): Blitz, Lucina, NNR, Paulina, Reinfleche, Rocker64

I don't necessarily think any of the people currently being wagoned are town. The longer Lucina goes without posting real content the more I think he's SK with a mod-given vig claim (and not an actual vig claim because there's probably a real town vig who'd cc it).

I think the scorri/Helios speculation is silly (but not scummy-terrible like Mancer's eclipse/BBM jab) because neither have flipped yet which makes posting about it in thread a complete waste of time. I dunno why people still speculate about scumpairs on D1 with no flips in the year of our lord 2013.

Wish Rocker, Rein and Blitz weren't afk because wow they're gonna have a lot of thread to read.

[BBM]

Oh yeah, should mention, Blitz mentioned yesterday in IRC that his computer had some virus that wouldn't let him log onto SF.

[BBM]

To the people mentioning the Eclipse-wagon- according to Prims, nobody is actually voting Eclipse right now, so I don't think she's a primary scumread of anyone except maybe Paulina atm.

[Snike]

Oh yeah, should mention, Blitz mentioned yesterday in IRC that his computer had some virus that wouldn't let him log onto SF.

Confirming this, though I believe elieson is aware of that.

Rein posted in GD that he wouldn't be here today, but I haven't seen him in-thread, soooooooo....

Rocker is just special, in the sense that he doesn't have an excuse.

@BBM: Yeah but I needed an excuse to post all hail prims, and I realized I hadn't talked much about eclipse, so I decided to do both in one post. I guess the other thing is that her name's been thrown around enough to warrant expounding my thoughts on her.

[eclipse]

Dammit Snike, this is why you talk more and post content. Otherwise, you get nonsensical accusations like me and BBM being scumbuddies.

It is his alignment that is fishy, but I think that minor inconsistencies in a player's role PM somewhere can show his or her attempts at trying to fake and forge their role PM. It is possible that there is something more to his Announcer role that he might not be telling us as well, or that he changed some of the flavor in his role PM. I'm suspecting that BBM's role PM that he showed us is faked and that he might actually be something else from what he claimed.

This also does not fall under flavor spec.

This falls under flavorspec. This is part of the reason why I disapprove of flavorspec (sorry Kevin). However, trying to get you to realize this is probably a waste of my time, as your response to my vote seems to have completely missed the point.

My first response to this was actually "who the fuck is Helios because I haven't seen him post in this game so far" and then I had to ISO him and realized that he has barely posted outside of N0.

There'd be more to this but :metaspec: I guess. Just me nitpicking.

more nitpicking:

Scum don't need to fake PMs since they can ask the moderator for fakes, the point is invalid.

Guys stop trying to outguess the mod. It's just making spam. I don't see anything wrong with fullclaimed people being asked to provide role PMs, excluding Snike since Miller is a sometimes role modifier and not a role and he isn't guaranteed to only have Miller. It's true that a PM isn't going to make anyone more town, but you shouldn't be relying on roles to determine if someone is town or scum anyway. Mod safeclaims are safe for a reason. (Mancer that is also directed at you)

Going to do some ISOs on Manix and Eclipse(the criticism on Mancer bothers me), BBM (for my gut), and some other people catching my attention. might put a vote down on one. If not I guess I'll default to Sho since his play has been annoying so far.

Uhh. . .you just said you don't like flavorspec, and then you said you don't like me criticizing Mancer, when part of the reason why I'm voting him is flavorspec. What?

I'm not quoting this

"I think X is suspicious for whatever reason, and not only are my reasons terrible, I don't have the guts to back it up with a vote!" If you'd do things like read WHY I voted the way I have, and my general attitude towards the rest of you following me, you MIGHT understand the logic behind my posts! I feel like you either didn't take the time to comprehend what I've posted so far, or you're intentionally misunderstanding me. Also, voting someone that is one of your town reads, especially early, is an extremely weak reason to be suspicious of someone. I can't see this as a serious drive to lynch me. And to add to your call of posting role PMs, stop posting your town reads unless they're in danger of being lynched.

Last night was a pain in the ass and I ended up not sleeping at all. Skimming over the thread I think my vote can be placed here:

##Unvote:

##Vote: Mancer

I am really hating how Mancer keeps bugging people to post their role pms. It seems scummy like all hell to me. His cases don't seem all that strong either. It seems like he's grasping for reasons to vote players. They seem forced.

#Fos: Eclipse

More in detail about all this stuff when I wake up this evening and post a content post. However eclipse seems really off to me and unmemorable.

Speaking of Eclipse; Paulina made that big post stating lots of suspicions against eclipse yet didn't vote her. Why? Do you feel that your vote is better placed on someone else Paulina?

Go for it, because it's gotta be better than the attempts I've seen so far, and would be far more useful than what you're doing right now.

Snike you're the best~!

BBM, I have a bunch of people suspicious of me for silly reasons. I am mystified as to why I don't have a wagon of votes. C'mon people, what happened to voting your scumreads?

I'm quite happy to leave my vote where it is, because asking for role PMs on D1 and looking for reasons to lynch someone based on their role PM is extremely bad form.

[Percivalé]

hey could you guys give me a day to be more coherent/lass lazy i'm having an emotional breakdown but I don't want to sub out

[Percivalé]

eclipse could you cut down on the passive-aggressiveness i'm having a hard time reading g your psosts

[eclipse]

Bizz: Go for it. Take a deep breath, open up a can of Honest Tea, and go for a walk, if you think it'll help.

[Snike]

@Bizz: Don't worry about the game. Focus on you.

@Eclipse: I feel like, given the source, that accusation in particular would happen anyways.

Also glad to see that my second wall of the game appears to be better-received and thus better-written than the last time I wrote a wall in a game.

Now, since this place is dying down, I'm going to go and try to do things other than mafia. Still waiting on the inactives to contribute more.

IE: It's all right, you can come out now. The Big Bad Snickersmonster is gone.

[Grace]

so many walls @_@

nothing much has changed on my opinions of players even after all of that, except mancer moving down a little from this:

mancer

-

marf

rocker

helios

sb

scum:

(this was at 2 in the morning for me, when I was last around the thread)

I have a sliding scale of peoples, and this is the scummy end of it. Mancer is being moved to under rocker. SB is cementing his place at scummiest because HOLY VOTEHOP AND NOTHING USEFUL. Helios' last post is still kinda eh. Marf needs to do more than a votehop with a blanket statement (read: cite yo shit).

also going on record to say that the BBM lynch is a bad idea imo, I don't think he'll flip scum, at least right now. His reactions to the role PM nitpick were 100% legit and reactionary which gives me a goodish feeling about him.

woo skimreading

[NekoRex]

I'm a bit more coherent now then I was 8 hours ago (as of typing this) so my last posts are probably more flimsy then I thought (which appears to be the case as I am reading)

Why on earth would you default to Sho? I still don't think he's confirmed town, but thinking of voting him right now would indicate that you haven't read the thread very much.

Was drowsy when I wrote it, forgot that Sho got vanillaized was more concerned about whining. That changes my read a bit since the vanillizer is likely to be scum. Still being pretty useless.

-NNR I'd like to know how my role conflicts with claimed roles/I conflict with claimed roles. That second post confused me because of that, but I'll try to keep the rolespec down.

It doesn't conflict with anything but my read (which is that you lean ever so slighly towards scum)

I ISO'd BBM expecting to vote him, but I can't really discern a good reason why he's scummy. Might be the ISO blocking interactions, but I'm not really sure. My gut is still there, though.

Eclipse looks town to me after the reread. I defended Mancer somewhat when I was half-asleep, but eclipse's reasoning against posting role Pms seems pretty valid.

However, I don't think Mancer is actually scummy for requesting outed role PMs since, like me, I didn't think it would hurt anyone without considering your reasoning.

Do agree that typo-hunting in Role PMs is nitpicky and a wrong way to go about hunting scum (see my last post), which Mancer does lose points for.

Can't pick out much from Mancer except I don't like except the scumread on Helios, who has little content so far (so I don't see much of how people could have a strong read on him already). Seems pretty okay otherwise.

Mancer... let's see here....

BBM is obviously hiding something from his role PM from town

Alright Mancer, your fakeclaim hunting is getting a bit ridiculous, even after I warned people to drop it. Having people post PMs for the sake of information and forcing scum to lock into claims is one thing, but trying to find which ones are fake when the answer is: "None of them because the Moderator wrote all the PMs" means you need to stop trying.

You ARE relying on roles to hunt, specifically role PMs. Start scumhunting.

##Vote: Mancer

[NekoRex]

Going to add that my other main scumreads today are Lucina and BBM, although I don't have anything really definitive on the latter aside from really bad gutvibes.

[Prims]

Yeah the fake PM hunting is stupid, I asked Elie to give me a fake role PM for a town fakeclaim and he complied with that even. No reason he wouldn't do the same for scum back on N0.

[riariadne]

Wish Rocker, Rein and Blitz weren't afk because wow they're gonna have a lot of thread to read.

/you/ wish that huh

yeah this is going to take a while

[NekoRex]

EBWOP

Can't pick out much from Manix except I don't like except the scumread on Helios, who has little content so far (so I don't see much of how people could have a strong read on him already). Seems pretty okay otherwise.

Fixed, incorrectly named Mancer as the player I was reading.

[BBM]

I didn't really like the Neko vote on Mancer. Wagon-hop while still semi-defending Mancer, okay.

[Shinori]

I just woke up gimme about an hour to post.

[Kriemhild]

Okay, there has been way too many posts since I last came online.

First of all, ##Unvote: Loocy. Prims claiming something to spur activity and then taking it back sounds just like something he'd do, as either Town or scum.

Lucina claiming late is quite suspicious though. It almost looks as if she was trying to find a way out after being revealed scum and then felt relieved when Prims took back his claim, allowing her to roleclaim normally. Then again, it could just be that she was inactive between Prims' first claim, and her own claim, in which case there'd be nothing suspicious about her late claim.

Clipsey!'s posts do seem odd when you isolate them, but this is also the way she usually behaves in Mafia games so it's nothing unusual.

BBM, on the other hand, seems different this game. For a moment, I actually thought he was Domu/Rapier when going through his posts, which is never a good thing.

Mancer seems too hellbent on getting roleclaims when it is completely unnecessary. I honestly have no idea what he intends to do with them. However, I don't think I ever played a proper Mafia game with him, so I don't know if it's normal for him to do stupid stuff like this or not.

I am still very sure that Manix's flavor is not related to ShoM's role loss at all, but whatever. I still find it to be far likelier that ShoM lost the role by targeting a specific player, in which case there's a good chance that his target was anti-Town.

Mancer has too many votes atm so I'm just going to ##Vote: BBM

[NekoRex]

I didn't really like the Neko vote on Mancer. Wagon-hop while still semi-defending Mancer, okay.

I agreed with the idea (of having people post role PMs) but not the motive (fakeclaim hunting). Also because he was still doing it after I made a post in bold letters saying "Stop trying to outguess the mod and his PMs, it won't work"

It's a lot more blatant too once you ISO him, so there's that. vOv

[Prims]

BBM, on the other hand, seems different this game. For a moment, I actually thought he was Domu/Rapier when going through his posts, which is never a good thing.

...the only time you've played a game with BBM where both you and he were town was SSBU, and yet you're voting him because he seems "different"? Elaborate?

[Shinori]

...the only time you've played a game with BBM where both you and he were town was SSBU, and yet you're voting him because he seems "different"? Elaborate?

Couldn't it be possible that he means different from other games that he has read as well?

[Paulina]

@Shinori: There is still more than a full day left, and we aren't close to a hammer situation. I wanted to ask her some questions and get her feedback (I'm starting to feel like a broken record here).

@Snike: That wall had very elaborate reads and analysis – thanks. =) I appreciate that someone else took the time to break down the thread en masse. Also, thank you for bothering to reread the thread in its entirety. Those of us who spent 5-6 hours drudging through it appreciate the effort.

The rest of this is in response to Eclipse's last post, here.

"I think X is suspicious for whatever reason, and not only are my reasons terrible,

I find it incredibly anti-town that you didn't elaborate on any of the concerns I raised, aside from "–Not only are [your] reasons terrible." I broke down that ISO post-by-post, and you completely disregarded it all. I especially wanted clarification for your vote on BBM, like I mentioned earlier – if it was an OMGUS, what your reasoning was at the time, etc. You gave me nada.

I don't have the guts to back it up with a vote!"

What an ugly remark.

If you'd do things like read WHY I voted the way I have, and my general attitude towards the rest of you following me, you MIGHT understand the logic behind my posts!

I have, and the "reasons" you gave were almost nonexistent. Levity's was "I didn't like her reaction," with no follow-up after being questioned. BBM's was for ???, as you provided zero clarification. That vote was also after you called him scummy for questioning you, which seemed like such an OMGUS.

I feel like you either didn't take the time to comprehend what I've posted so far, or you're intentionally misunderstanding me.

Intentionally misunderstanding? These are the only snippets in your ISO where you explained any of your stances.

That, along with what you're pointing out and those questions earlier makes me think that you're not a bad lynch target for today. . .

FMPOV, I don't care about a role deleter. This genius will sooner or later PoE himself/herself into a corner, especially if they're shooting in the dark. In other words, I see no reason to freak out about it unless you're a role that cares about being in the game.

I found it odd that Prims wanted to hide his abilities, and not how many he had. The latter has no bearing on his case, so it makes no sense to reveal it.

--For some reason these are being bolded. The formatting quirks on SF are really irritating. ._.

That's all. What is that, six sentences? In the entire thread? That's ridiculous. Show me where your explanations are -- this rationale isn't as obvious as you seem to believe. By the way, before I finished writing my last post, you did deign to elaborate on the BBM vs. Mancer lynch, which I appreciated.

stop posting your town reads unless they're in danger of being lynched.

Thank you for the tip – that's a good point. Somehow I hadn't considered that.

Anyway, I'm glad to have gotten some consensus. Some people have agreed that this is scummy, but several others commented that it's just her play style (which makes me ???). Mancer is looking pretty bad right now, jumping all over the place on page 24. It looks like he's on the block, so this vote is probably pointless. But that being said, I've been *really* bothered by Eclipse's resistance to engage with pretty much anyone. I don't want to give such flagrantly anti-town behavior a by.

##Vote: Eclipse

[eclipse]

Just for you, Paulina:

Read this. Now read it aloud. One more time. Still think that was a random vote? This person got it:

BBM actually did misrep Eclipse pretty hard too, she never said that her role was scummy (#159) and she also didn't vote me for claiming a scummy role. She voted me because she feels I contradicted myself by saying that I had a scummy role, then turning around getting panicked about the Role Deleter/Thief ™. The thing is, I don't hate my role, I just wanted town to know ahead of time that it's not the towniest-looking role at all.

Still think Rocker is more worth voting though

I don't think it's worth my time to explain my logic when it's already out there. Stuff like this is why I'm not taking this vote against me seriously.

eclipse could you cut down on the passive-aggressiveness i'm having a hard time reading g your psosts

I will address this in postgame.

[Blitz]

Firstly, I know I had been VERY useless lately, but net was disconnected and I had troubeles posting thanks to virus in the PCs

so, here are some thoughts I can recollect (cause the lab is closing atm )

I will also try try to make another post today by going to my cousin's place

so, let me say what I think is important for the time being (also hoping this post goes through)

BBM has been confirmed Kiwi by none other than our mod, so if we don't want to lynch Kiwi (who I think flavor wise should be town) we should stop this crazy BBM voting spree (unless you have sore reason to think Kiwi is scum that is

To start things off, you hear a message over HQ loudspeakers from Kiwi that you can't seem to ignore no matter how hard you try.

as per this post by Elie

moving on

I think we should utilize the nights by killing using our Lucina as per her claim and thus she would be not be a good lynch target (if she doesn't who we decide her to, she can be lynched the next day)

anyways, gtg.