Kirby Mafia - Game Over

[Paperblade]

It's much more likely that there were scum on jalmont's wagon trying to offer him as a counterlynch to Weapons than that he was Weapons' scumbuddy and they chose to keep him alive over Weapons.

[CT075]

and cut

[Paperblade]

also Shinori should be jailed+empowered imo because cop

if any of the mystery roles are something dumb like Miller they should claim now

[BBM]

Not really, everyone is going to be careful of voting for a Hated. If I were scum, I'd give it to a buddy. It's a nulltell IMO.

I agree with Paperblade's reasoning and would have done the exact same as him fwiw.

Also I think Paperblade/SB/Boron are obvtown because of the Weapons flip. Paperblade had spoken against both the Jalmont and the Weapons lynches, and therefore could have picked Jalmont just as easily to consolidate on over Weapons, at a point when Jalmont was leading 6-5 with very little time left in the phase. Only makes sense if both Jalmont and Weapons are scum, but I doubt it because I didn't think that Jalmont was scummy anyways, and Weapons also tried to push Jalmont as a counterwagon to his own lynch at a point when Shinori as a lynch still wasn't implausible. SB is town for putting the vote at 4-3 for Weapons when it was tied at 3-3, and also calling out Cam being in-thread with 10 minutes left, when that was an unnecessary action for scum. Boron is town for swinging the wagons from 6-6 to 7-5 in favour of Weapons when all the people in the thread (me, Paperblade, SB) were voting for Weapons and would have been forced to switch to Jalmont to secure a lynch had she not switched first.

[BBM]

Oh shit, I didn't realize that Hated worked in LYLO. Nvm not worth the WIFOM.

[Sunwoo]

Fuck. I didn't realize that twilight phase was over.

IMPORTANT ANNOUNCEMENT TIME:

I'm miller.

I gave Shin macho insomniac because I don't know whether he's town or scum, and it's a role that doesn't really benefit or harm the side that has it.

[BBM]

Oh yeah, I also think Shinori is more likely to be town because he was the first person to call out Weapons for the shitty pressure votes at a point where Weapons was more or less getting away with it. Not as strong as the other three because Shinori might have assumed that Weapons would step up his posts at some point, so he tried to get in an easy early distancing attempt. But I probably won't return my vote here at least for a while.

[Grassbridger]

I'm still suspicious of BBM... his language in those last few posts is pinging for some reason, even if his reasoning is SUPER-PRO-TOWNIE AND HELPFUL

[CT075]

feel like i should respond to this before i go to bed

Cam's whole thing about BBM staying quiet is kind of flawed because unless BBM posted that, Shinori probably wouldn't have said not to talk about it and nothing would've been done, and I don't like how he has to point out he's not super confident on his reads, of course you won't be in ED1. This just seems like you're being self-conscious. I also don't like his #88 because it fewls like he's just grasping at reasons for not to vote, the whole "I want to see how this pans out" kind of feels like he doesn't want to do anything that makes himself look scummy and the part about lots of votes could also be interpreted as not wanting to be associated with a wagon.

i don't really know what to say in response to the first part. not super confident in reads is just my speech patterns idk what you're going on about (getatmebro). "i'll see how this pans out" was more "i don't like any of these wagons but i'm getting reads off it so i'm going to let them continue", lots of votes was also "i odn't think any of these wagons deserve a lynch yet so i don't want to put my vote down on them"

like i intend to make it very clear that i'm not gonna vote for someone unless i actually consider them a lynch candidate (this includes consolidation)

[scorri]

I gave ninja to Refa because it's a powerful role for scum and she's the most protown of my reads that we had left. I considered giving empower as well, but decided that something that can essentially hide the fact that someone is going somewhere was more important to give to town, especially since the ninja can be passed along.

[Sunwoo]

(Refa's a "he", scorri.)

The person I'm most suspicious of right now is Objection, for doing nothing with his "reaction test" and for what he said about Jalmont lynch. Saying, "I don't find this person suspicious but would lynch for information" is pretty terrible. When he gets back to this game I want him to explain himself because right now he's the first person I'd go after when day phase comes.

Also, my role's not specifically "miller" but rather makes the person who got it show up as the opposite alignment on cop scans. (I'm not very happy with my role, but I suppose it prevented scum getting a godfather.)

[Paperblade]

I knew a role like that was gonna be one of the mysteries

[BBM]

I was rereading the thread today and I actually think Refa is scum.

a) I don't like his reasoning about Weapons in his last list-post. The only thing he states about Weapons in the way of an alignment-tell is his Jalmont waffling (a scum-tell), yet he still says that he wouldn't support a Weapons lynch, just because Jal is scummier. This is odd reasoning. Why does Jalmont being scummier prevent Weapons from being a good wagon? Sure, you'd want to lynch a #1 scumread over a #2, but it's not like you'd be opposed to lynching #2 if that was also valid.

b) His reasoning for the scumread on me sucks. He talks about how I'm redirecting attention to SB/Boron/Shin, but the only time I ever talk about finding any of them scummy (other than asking Shin why he has no opinions and then later listing him last in a wagon consolidation order) is asking Refa to expand on his opinion that voting Objection for his RVS overreaction was bad. At that point, Refa was voting for Shinori- the same person I was voting for. Where's the scum intent in directing Refa away from the person I'd presumably be trying to mislynch if I were scum? Additionally, he talks about how Jalmont, Kay, and I all seem suspicious of each other in our exchanges, yet never actually vote for each other, even though I'd stated explicitly at that point that I thought Jalmont was more likely to be town than scum.

c) His reasoning for the scumread on Kay also sucks. First off, he talks about how Kay is scummy for defending me and Jalmont when in just the last paragraph, he talked about how Kay/Jalmont/me all seemed to be distancing ourselves from one another. The rest of his scumread is just for having different reads from himself even though townies are uninformed and can therefore be wrong (and often are unless you're me).

d) He seems to try and push for lynches on me/Kay/Jalmont half on associative reads of us having "back-and-forths". Like I don't really understand how that's scummy in any way, and pushing associative lynches without a flip is scummy too.

e) His tone in almost all his posts seems to be really self-deprecating in a scummy way, because he uses it to offset his reads a lot of the time. What's also of note is that he wasn't even a little self-deprecating in his first game as town, and it makes no sense that he'd suddenly become self-deprecating after a game where almost everyone praised his play as being really good for a first-timer.

f) This is small but I wouldn't put it past Prims to purposely assign Refa as scum because he did so well as town in his first game.

[Paperblade]

BBM is clearly scum, everything he says is something I was already thinking. Too townie for me

[Paperblade]

Note that I only read the first two sentences of BBM's post

[Sunwoo]

BBM is clearly scum, everything he says is something I was already thinking. Too townie for me

Don't worry! If he's too townie and isn't scum then he will be shot in the face

[Prims]

f) This is small but I wouldn't put it past Prims to purposely assign Refa as scum because he did so well as town in his first game.

Everything was RNGed this game (and if it wasn't I would lie and say it was anyway).

[BBM]

lol

Waffling on Objection but I think he's town because (more meta yay) in his last game as scum, he was really unsure in the mafia qt and asked opinions in the mafia QT from his scumbuddies before almost every other post. I think if he were scum, he would he would have asked his buddies before pulling that reaction test, and they would have told him not to do it after what happened in Masquerade, where Kay got lynched for pulling that and then not really doing much afterwards. Objection normally only posts a couple posts, at one time, in a day, and is also new and often gets wagoned D1, so it makes little tactical sense to give him the green light for something like that.

[Paperblade]

Everything was RNGed this game (and if it wasn't I would lie and say it was anyway).

Prims said this about my Anonymafia bingo card

it was not random at all

[BBM]

tbf there's a difference between randomness in a role (which Prims is well-known for disliking anyways) and randomness in alignment assignment

[Sunwoo]

lol

Waffling on Objection but I think he's town because (more meta yay) in his last game as scum, he was really unsure in the mafia qt and asked opinions in the mafia QT from his scumbuddies before almost every other post. I think if he were scum, he would he would have asked his buddies before pulling that reaction test, and they would have told him not to do it after what happened in Masquerade, where Kay got lynched for pulling that and then not really doing much afterwards. Objection normally only posts a couple posts, at one time, in a day, and is also new and often gets wagoned D1, so it makes little tactical sense to give him the green light for something like that.

This is assuming that scum is playing optimally.

Weapons was NOT playing optimally. I wouldn't call what he was doing optimal play as either scum or town.

Therefore, I will assume that scum is not playing optimally. I want an answer from Objection regardless as well as his thoughts now that a flip has occurred.

[Paperblade]

Okay enough being distracted by stss

I did not long Refa's really long list where he gave reads on everyone, but then had like 2 sentences on jalmont and voted him for "tldr" and "changing his opinion," the latter of which I am pretty sure is not even a thing that happened. I find it especially suspicious that he said earlier in the post that WoMC's waffling on jalmont was "somewhat suspicious I guess"

Also I'd also like Shin to explain why he tried to give whatshisface hated townie

[Paperblade]

tbf there's a difference between randomness in a role (which Prims is well-known for disliking anyways) and randomness in alignment assignment

It has the same purpose though--don't try to meta the host. I actually RVS voted the one guy that wasn't on my bingo card because I thought he was most likely to be scum with just that info (either Prims was telling the truth and it was all equal or he wasn't and this guy was likely scum due to balance).

Not really relevant to this game though.

[BBM]

Well the thing is, I think there are some things that are optimal for mafia to do in a common sense way that are separate from things that are optimal for them as far as looking townie goes. I think telling the guy that gets wagoned every game not to do something that's purposely scummy when he's not even going to come back to talk about how it was actually a reaction test for another 24 hours falls in the former category.

SUMMARY

Town

me

SB

Boron

Paperblade

Kirsche

Jalmont

Shinori

Objection

[Paperblade]

idk, I usually don't tell people what to do at the start of the game unless I think it's a good idea (like Cam claiming PGO in EOM) but if they start making an ass out of themselves I'll intervene in the scum PM.