Kirby Mafia - Game Over

[Paperblade]

I don't think jalmont is scum (if I did I wouldn't have given him Governor), I just don't think Weapons voting him over himself means anything. Him voting jalmont over Shinori does mean something though

[Kay]

I didn't like Kay's vote on me, but I think that much was obvious to everyone. It seemed as if she were trying to make it sound as if I was deliberately brushing off Jalmont's posts to continue calling him scum, painting what I was saying in a worse light, like "yes, this is definitely what she's doing" instead of acknowledging the possibility that maybe I just didn't get Jalmont. Also, if I remember correctly, there was interaction with Kay and Jalmont where she was also asking him to contribute before suddenly turning on me? I'll have to reread that.

Yes, and then he contributed. I changed my read on him when he stopped acting scummy. It seemed to me like you acted more suspicious of him after that if anything.

I also don't really like her Boron vote because Boron never dismissed Jal's reads. She just said that he was being unnecessarily wordy and making his content out to be more than it really was, and asked him for more.

He listed like five reads counting the more vague ones, and at that point demanding more content just seems silly. Yes, more content is always good. Yes, asking people to contribute is good. But there's only so much you can require of people before you should admit that they've said plenty. And wordy can be just a writing style, or can be clarifying things at least to some extent. If it's being used to mask not saying anything, fine, but I don't really think Jalmont had a lack of content to hide at that point. When he wasn't posting reads or anything, his posts were really short, so that wouldn't make sense imo.

[Kay]

Oops, forgot this part of my post.

yeaaaaaaa suckas what's up with that lynch go team

Kay, how is scorri your top town read? considering she (he????????????/) did nothing but attack me and advocate my wagon, which, obviously does not look so good in hindsight (you have to say there are at least a couple scum trying to push my wagon). I am quite interested in hearing some solid reasoning on that as I don't really understand how you could get there.

The timing and reasoning for attacking you didn't look scummy to me. It was after you were acting less scummy, and it wasn't as dismissive as Boron's case imo.

I guess there isn't, but it reads like leaving herself open to switch back to Jalmont. Also about reading intent differently, Kay said she completely understood what Jalmont was trying to say, which is why it feels weird that she still thought it was possibly scummy. And then part of her Boron vote is basically for Boron not understanding what Jalmont was trying to say. Meh idk.

It was more because I felt like Boron was misrepping Jalmont and not admitting that he had posted content.

[Sunwoo]

I don't think jalmont is scum (if I did I wouldn't have given him Governor), I just don't think Weapons voting him over himself means anything. Him voting jalmont over Shinori does mean something though

Well, yeah, I think that's pretty much the thing that really changed my mind on Jalmont. Weapons sort of pushed Jalmont as the counterwagon to his own.

[Sunwoo]

Hello there Kay the ninja.

Yes, and then he contributed. I changed my read on him when he stopped acting scummy. It seemed to me like you acted more suspicious of him after that if anything.

Like I said, I felt that Jalmont was padding out his posts way too much, that he was being overly wordy, saying more than what was needed to get his point across, and making it difficult to immediately grasp his points. Personally I find that kind of behavior scummy. Then I went to sleep and thought about it, and while I don't like it I can admit that my not understanding him does not make him scum.

[CT075]

my townread on jalmont is one of my weaker ones for sure but he definitely seems to have some ideas on how to scumhunt; i'm in favor of leaving him alive for now in the hopes that he can actually turn up something good

fruits of reread coming

[CT075]

And therein lies why I think Shin is scum. I feel he's very much slipped through the cracks in the sense that people see him post and go, "There's an opinion NEXT". What he has posted so far suggest to me an indifference to posting, meaning that it feels he is just trying to get by at the moment.

as much as i don't disagree (not so sure if i'd go so far as to conclude that he is necessarily scum though), jalmont could you point out where you're getting the bolded bit from?

You've talked about nobody but me. You seem to have no interest in anybody else. Yeah, we're running low on time. But you had three days to talk about someone else, and you've pretty much failed to do that. It appears to me you are going for the easy lynch.

i'm not so sure that basing your reads off of people's reactions towards you is really the best way to do things but whatever floats your boat

is there any reason you think she might be scum that don't involve you?

[CT075]

i had more (mostly on BigBadMoofia) but while i was reading my own post i realized that most of it didn't make sense so i'm gonna go and rethink it

[charlie_]

I feel way too out of this game, I should reread when I get home tomorrow.

kirsche is basically guaranteed town because if he's left alive to LYLO town autoloses, we HAVE to either never get to LYLO or kill him ourselves

we have a chance if we turoblynch mafia before they can vote, but eh

Cam's lack of punctuation posts generally bother me. Most of them are one liners, which seems like spam for spam's sake. I'm also not too sure what to make of that last weapons vote, I don't really recall Cam ever saying anything. Still, it was to lynch, but there's a chance scum could get the last vote for towncred.

Cam's ISO isn't mostly one liners, Shin. There are a fair few of them, but you're blowing it out of proportion, and the bolded just feels like you're padding your reasoning out even though it's just a null read and there isn't even towncred to get from placing the last vote anyway.

Also feel like Objection's FoS of Cam is bad because those were just over an hour apart and Cam was rushing because he had to leave so I don't really fault him for not being able to get out a decent opinion on you on top of reading the whole of the thread in that time, and just trying to make sure that we got a lynch period.

Dislike Kay, I feel like her Refa vote was a very easy jump to make and honestly I had thought of the lynching a townie thing myself and decided against it. Jalmont was also a pretty easy target, but her turnabout to outright defending him just seems kind of weird, but says she hasn't dropped the scumread and pretty much said that she disliked Boron because she wanted him to post more content, rather than stopping at a couple of reads. Also her last post didn't exactly answer how Kay was townie, just scorri wasn't suspicious. Also Kay, you said Jalmont had contributed more than a lot of people, who did you think had contributed less than him?

I'll try and be more active day 2, I just got really distracted today and now I'm really tired.

[Kay]

Dislike Kay, I feel like her Refa vote was a very easy jump to make and honestly I had thought of the lynching a townie thing myself and decided against it. Jalmont was also a pretty easy target, but her turnabout to outright defending him just seems kind of weird, but says she hasn't dropped the scumread and pretty much said that she disliked Boron because she wanted him to post more content, rather than stopping at a couple of reads. Also her last post didn't exactly answer how Kay was townie, just scorri wasn't suspicious. Also Kay, you said Jalmont had contributed more than a lot of people, who did you think had contributed less than him?

Refa, Shin, Grass, maybe other people I can't think of off the top of my head. Arguably Weapons but that's a closer call. Don't remember specifics that well, just that he wasn't that unhelpful relatively.

Also I hadn't dropped the scumread on Jalmont, not haven't. Plus, I'm more suspicious of Boron after the flip because it backs up there being scum intent.

[Sunwoo]

Also I hadn't dropped the scumread on Jalmont, not haven't. Plus, I'm more suspicious of Boron after the flip because it backs up there being scum intent.

Um, what. Kay, explain this.

[Kay]

Um, what. Kay, explain this.

Which? That I think Jalmont is town because of the interactions between him and Weapons and Weapons voting him over Shinori? Or that I think you might have been scum trying to divert the lynch from Weapons?

[Sunwoo]

Which? That I think Jalmont is town because of the interactions between him and Weapons and Weapons voting him over Shinori? Or that I think you might have been scum trying to divert the lynch from Weapons?

The last statement. You do realize that I voted Weapons at the end of the day, swinging the votes in favor of a Weapons lynch instead of forcing people to switch onto Jalmont in order to get a lynch? After stating in-thread that there was a possibility I was going to sleep through the deadline? If I were scum, how easy would it be for me to "conveniently" oversleep and leave my vote on Jalmont?

Heck, I'm always logged in anonymously so you guys wouldn't even know for sure I was ever online if I never posted anywhere.

[Zkirsche]

we have a chance if we turoblynch mafia before they can vote, but eh

This is a better plan than lynching me just for surviving to LYLO.

Kay you never responded to my attack on you.

[Shin]

SB, there's some degree of delicious irony with blowing stuff out of proportion. Considering how Cam kinda admits to it, I'm not sure how much you need to flag me for it, So silly!

I'm still not a fan of Jalmont. The "You don't understand me" line never goes down well, and attacking Kay for having a townread on scorri seems ultra defensive. Scorri did stuff other than think that you're scum. The weapons flip does make you look a little better, but the same was said in Musical Chairs with Objection and the Dallas flip.

[CT075]

shin, if you're here

answer

[Grassbridger]

I think I will update my reads a bit, because I just reread my own ISO in a (vain) attempt to disprove Kay's assertion that Jalmont had out-contributed me, and it seems I've been tunneling a bit on BBM and Paperblade.

So, I am still finding BBM scummy (as I indicated fairly recently), but I tend to buy Paper's/the group's logic of Jalmont's towniness. My scumread on Paper is fading, though not gone.

I accused Cam of scum distancing from a potential Jalmont lynch, and if Jalmont flipped scum I would find that scummy (and without a flip, I find it a little scummy) but there's a good townie streak in his recent posts that outweighs that post.

I kind of buy the scum reasoning about Kay and Shin; I don't have too much to say of my own but will try to reread once the day starts (and I'm not buried under mountains of homework).

Refa and Shinori have completely slipped under my radar; I'd like to see more from SB.

I don't buy the "everyone who switched to Weapons at the end is town" argument. It makes sense, but I have doubts despite that.

[BBM]

Grass, why do you find me scummy again? The only things I recall you mentioning about why I might be scum are me making some weak claims very early on (at a time when making strong claims is sort of difficult), some meta stuff about me redirecting attention, and then talking about how me being okay with a flashwagon on you was an OMGUS.

I think I realize what's bothering me about Grassbridger. He seems to be spending more time stating that he finds me (and to a lesser extent, Paperblade) scummy than he does actually analyzing our posts.

Another thing that I forgot to say earlier- me "redirecting attention away from myself" is ironically one of the main reasons behind the only time I've ever been mislynched.

[Kay]

This is a better plan than lynching me just for surviving to LYLO.

Kay you never responded to my attack on you.

You mean the thing about my defense of Weapons seeming forced? I have absolutely no clue what to say to that. I mean, that's just your impression. I defended Weapons because he seemed townish, I've explained why, what am I supposed to say about it?

[Zkirsche]

Well you could explain why him unvoting Jalmont looked pro-town for one.

[Grassbridger]

Grass, why do you find me scummy again? The only things I recall you mentioning about why I might be scum are me making some weak claims very early on (at a time when making strong claims is sort of difficult), some meta stuff about me redirecting attention, and then talking about how me being okay with a flashwagon on you was an OMGUS.

I think I realize what's bothering me about Grassbridger. He seems to be spending more time stating that he finds me (and to a lesser extent, Paperblade) scummy than he does actually analyzing our posts.

Well, when I *did* try to analyze your posts, my arguments were vociferously rejected as not being the "right" meta on you or something. It was rather discouraging. But I'll do my best to go back and elaborate on my reasoning and things I've noticed. (Also, this is the first time that you've mentioned anything specific about my posts, although I've said more about you than vice versa.)

"Not really, everyone is going to be careful of voting for a Hated. If I were scum, I'd give it to a buddy. It's a nulltell IMO. " #304

>>Succinctly writing off a strong argument of clearing a specific person with strong associative reads. This line seems pretty scummy to me--succinct is not your usual style and your argument is, in my opinion, obviously incorrect. Scum can give a buddy hated, give a buddy something else, give town hated, or give town something else. I think "give a buddy something else" is strictly superior to "give a buddy hated".

"Oh shit, I didn't realize that Hated worked in LYLO. Nvm not worth the WIFOM." #305

>>A retraction of the above opinion. Maybe nothing, but I see "Oh shit" as suspicious--it seems like an overreaction if you just made a mistake in logic a minute prior, but wouldn't be an overreaction if you were scum and had told Weapons to give it to a buddy. Also, I feel like scum!BBM would totally post his reasoning for his actual actions in-thread preceded by "if I was scum".

"Oh yeah, I also think Shinori is more likely to be town because he was the first person to call out Weapons for the shitty pressure votes at a point where Weapons was more or less getting away with it. Not as strong as the other three because Shinori might have assumed that Weapons would step up his posts at some point, so he tried to get in an easy early distancing attempt. But I probably won't return my vote here at least for a while." #307

>> Waffly townreads with an escape plan in the last sentence. Scummy.

That's the more recent stuff.

[Grassbridger]

Also, I guess if BBM flips scum then I'd be more suspicious of kirsche than I am right now.

[Prims]

Still missing actions.

[Paperblade]

That argument vs. BBM is pretty dumb, his opinion changed on kirsche because his original understanding of the role was wrong and he realized it was, thus prompting him to go "No wait you're right I'm wrong."

[Grassbridger]

Paper: I'm not saying posting was an overreaction, I'm saying swearing was. I don't see town!BBM caring at all about the mistake; saying "oh shit" means he cares at all? And I'm not attacking the flip on kirsche at all, the reason I gave that BBM flipping scum would mean kirsche is more likely to be scum is BBM saying "if I were scum I'd give [hated] to a buddy", which was based on his misunderstanding of the situation.