Kirby Mafia - Game Over

[Paperblade]

Also scorri avoided my question on why she thinks Refa is town

[CT075]

I'm at work so I'm not going to be saying much until I get off from it, but I had to ask something. We know that Objection didn't empower Shinori, but how do we know that he didn't just idle or empower someone not Paper? Unless I've missed something, aside from his word that he empowered Paper there's nothing that directly supports this.

I think that someone is lying about their action and they shot the tracker so there's no chance that anybody would prove it.

maybe not the same line of initial reasoning but seriously?

Cam: I'll be your posting restriction, though I'd prefer it not be every letter needs to be a different color. If it was every post needs to be a different color of the rainbow, I'd be up for that or something.

alright, thanks

i'll hang onto it for a moment because i want to see if paper wants to shoot but if i come back and paper hasn't said anything it's go

Cam: Why scum might have killed SB could be WIFOM, could be they knew I'd be on Shinori so they didn't need to worry about me jailing one of them, could be that they were more afraid of getting tracked as they shot someone, etc. I think they last two are more likely since it was pretty clear who I was going to be on and as such I was less of a threat. It's also possible they suspected that one of the mystery roles was a watcher, so they didn't want to target likely kill targets like me or Paper. There's not a whole lot we can get from this except "they didn't go with the obvious"

Pedit: Actually, Boron's point about Objection possibly lying about his target makes me more inclined to see scum intent here.

man i specifically said that "i bet someone is lying about their target" and yet nobody considers that :(

Something feels a bit off about Cam's posts right now, but I'm not sure if that's just me being paranoid or if there's actually something there.

it's clearly my epic charisma

---

the only thing i'm not entirely concrete on wrt objection is that why wouldn't scum shoot shinori if they had the empower?

[scorri]

Lets see.

I found him scummy already.

He didn't target the cop last night, thus preventing the cop from scanning someone, giving the town either a clear or finding scum. This alone is scum motivation enough to not target.

If mafia was scared that one of the mystery roles was something like a roleblock or driver, they might have wanted the empower on their kill to make sure that it wasn't screwed with.

Cam: WIFOM? Possible watcher? There are a couple of reasons I can think of. Also killing the tracker first since they knew that Shinori was likely going to be roleblocked?

[CT075]

Also killing the tracker first since they knew that Shinori was likely going to be roleblocked?

i hadn't considered that, but i don't really get why them not killing shinori is WIFOM (actually i'm not even sure what WIFOM means anymore)

at any rate my activity is going to be pretty on-and-off over the next couple days and then it will actually plummet drastically once classes start on tuesday

[CT075]

...man i totally missed that string of paperblade posts

ok if he wants to shoot refa (who isn't being particularly active anyway) i'm going to give him a PR instead

any objections?

[CT075]

ok if he wants to shoot refa (who isn't being particularly active anyway) i'm going to give Refa a PR instead

reading is tech

[scorri]

Attempting to get a mislynch on Shinori for not dying basically is what I meant there.

And herp, Paper, missed that question. Ok, lets go, Refa.

I don't really see anything that Refa's done that would make him scum. I know that he had the massive list post where he then voted Jalmont for not great reasons, but I don't think that post was particularly scummy. He was posting at a point in time where there wasn't a whole lot of time left in the day. At that point, his vote was likely going to end up on either Weapons or Jalmont and he didn't find Weapons especially scummy. Yeah, it doesn't look great in view of flips, but that doesn't make him automatically scum. I've read his ISO multiple times and I haven't found anything that makes me think he's scummy, and I viewed him as the most town out of the remaining people I had left to pick from. He was a vaguely town tell over a bunch of null reads and one scum read.

[CT075]

He was a vaguely town tell over a bunch of null reads and one scum read.

forgive me for not reading (and/or inferring because prims can tell you i already failed at figuring out who had roles and who didn't at one point in time) if you've already stated this but did you ever out who these were (at least the scum read)

[Grassbridger]

Refa's been really inactive, but I don't find him scummy outside of that.

Paper, what do you think of my Objection/Shin argument?

[CT075]

also, since scorri was kind enough to volunteer

##Backdrop: scorri

[scorri]

Cam: At the point when I was giving out a role, I had Refa, Grass(null), BBM(null), and Objection (where my vote is and thus my scum read) left. I gave the ninja to Refa cause I felt he was least likely to be scum out of them.

[CT075]

right, thanks

back to rereading

[CT075]

although if someone could explain to me exactly what's bad about lining up lynches, that could be great.

lining up lynches is scummy because it allows a scum player to pretty easily set up successive mislynches if they can convince town to go along with it

i'd prefer we take each day on its own, since each day will have new information for us and we can look at things with more clarity

[Grassbridger]

Well, ok, sure, but only if town doesn't reconsider it at each successive step. What I was saying doesn't fall prey to that because it's based on associative reads, meaning a good chunk of my logic goes away if the first one flips town.

[Zkirsche]

lining up lynches is scummy because it allows a scum player to pretty easily set up successive mislynches if they can convince town to go along with it

i'd prefer we take each day on its own, since each day will have new information for us and we can look at things with more clarity

I don't really see the difference if someone says "Oh this person might be scum by association" before person X is lynched compared to afterwards. If the town go along with it then the logic can't be bad and it can be pushed just as easily the next day regardless.

[Paperblade]

Lining up lynches is only bad when you try to create 1v1s where none exists

[Grassbridger]

Paper: what about my Shin/Objection comments?

[Paperblade]

I considered the possibility of a Shin/Objection scumteam but I think it's unlikely since I think Prims would remind them how my role works

[Zkirsche]

Scorri if you think Refa is town, what do you make of the arguments against him, specifically BBM's #313?

I frankly feel that the Kay Vs Boron thing is a lot of in town fighting at the moment.

Why?

[Paperblade]

Cam has the most posts itg

brb killing self

[scorri]

WOW THIS POSTING RESTRICTION SURE IS FUN!!!!

KIRSCHE I THINK THAT WHILE BBM HAS SOME VALID POINTS, THEY AREN'T ALL COMPLETELY TRUE. IF YOU LOOK AT THIS FIRST POINT FOR INSTANCE, YOU SEE THAT HE SAYS THAT REFA CLAIMED TO FIND WEAPONS AS A SECONDARY SCUM READ, YET IF YOU LOOK AT REFA'S POST, WEAPONS IS IN THE NULL READ PART, NOT THE SCUM READ PART. SO WHY WOULD REFA WANT TO LYNCH A NULL READ OVER A SCUM READ? REFA ALSO HAD MULTIPLE OTHER SCUM READS THAT WERE MORE OF A SCUM READ THAN WEAPONS, SO IT MAKES LITTLE SENSE AS TO WHY HE WOULD WANT TO LYNCH A NULL READ AND AS SUCH THE POINT ISN'T REALLY VALID.

THE SECOND POINT INCLUDES AT LEAST ONE MISREAD BY BBM. REFA CLAIMED THAT BBM WAS TRYING TO DIRECT ATTENTION *TO* SHINORI, NOT AWAY FROM SHINORI. IT SEEMS LIKE BBM TOOK ONE SMALL PART OF REFA'S ARGUMENT THAT WAS A BIT SHAKY AND TRIED HIS BEST TO PAD OUT THE ARGUMENT AS TO WHY IT WAS A BAD SCUM READ.

HE THEN AT LEAST SORTA HELPS REFA'S ARGUMENT BY DEFENDING KAY. BUT, I HAVE TO AGREE A BIT THAT REFA'S ARGUMENT AGAINST KAY WASN'T THE BEST, HOWEVER, I DON'T THINK HIS REASONING FOR FINDING KAY WAS SCUMMY PERSAY, JUST MAYBE NOT THE MOST AMAZING WE'VE EVER SEEN. WHICH, SINCE REFA IS STILL SORTA NEW AT THIS, IS UNDERSTANDABLE.

OVERALL I CAN SEE WHY BBM MIGHT CONSIDER REFA SCUMMY, BUT HIS POINTS DON'T CONVINCE ME.

[scorri]

OH BOY THIS IS GOING TO BE FUN

[Sunwoo]

*sees scorri's wall of rainbow text*

X_______X

Okay, so, I reread Refa's posts. His earlier content actually seems all right and explained well enough, but he had a crapton of null reads in his last big content post. Now that his biggest scum read at the time, Jalmont, has flipped town I am interested in seeing how this affects his reads on Kay and BBM. My other big issue with him is that he hasn't posted at all this phase even though he has been online, which makes me wonder if this silence isn't "strategic". Is it possible to get a modprod here or something?

I'll get more content up at a time when I'm not feeling tired.

[Prims]

prodded refa

[BBM]

Here are the relevant parts of Refa's list-post.

WeaponsofMassConstruction- I find his waffling on Jalmont somewhat suspicious I guess, but I don't really have more to go on than that. Plus I find Jalmont more scummy anyways, soooo...yeah, would not support a lynch on.

BigBadMarshmallow- I like the exchange at the beginning where BBM, Jalmont, and Kay are all lynching each other. I'm not trying to say it's scummy, it's just a...interesting coincidence. His defense of Objection is uh...whatever, personally a null read for me. It's just that...he seems a little too eager to shift the attention off to other people (e.g. Shin, Shinori, Boron, SB) when none of them have really done anything particularly scummy. And there's just so much back and forth with Kay and Jalmont, it's just...way too much to be just a coincidence at that point. Despite their exchanges making them seem suspicious of each other, or at the very least null reads, when push comes to shove they'll always vote someone else which strikes me as again, way too suspicious to be a coincidence.

First off, the Weapons read. Yes, I can see why he wouldn't want to lynch a null read over a scumread. However, look at what he actually says about Weapons. He points out something suspicious that Weapons does, and that's it. There's nothing townie here to balance out Weapons's suspicious waffling that could make this read result in null. It feels like distancing from a scumbuddy while still trying not to get him lynched.

As for the part on me- yes, he lists Shinori as one of the people I'm trying to direct attention to. But he also lists SB/Boron/Shin, and the only time I talked about the former two, at least, was in relation to asking Refa why he wasn't looking at the people on the Objection wagon if he thought it was bad. There are only two things redirecting attention could mean. Either it means that I'm trying to redirect attention away from myself or I'm trying to direct Refa's attention somewhere. I already explained how the latter makes no sense, and the former doesn't either because the only person who was suspicious of me was Shinori. Refa wasn't suspicious of me at that point, so why would I need to redirect his attention away from myself? And as for me directing attention towards Shinori... obviously I'm going to try to talk a lot about how my main scumread is scummy.