Inception Mafia

[euklyd]

~not content~

Bored, so I made us all a present.

[spoiler=have some ISOs]Euklyd
Eurykins
Grassbridger
j00
Kay
kirsche
Quote (Levity, Bizz)
Curly Brace (Manix)
The Objection!
Parrhesia (Furet)
Polydeuces
Prims
Refa
Reinfleche
SB
scorri
Shinori
Strege

Mods:
Paperblade
BBM

Pretty sure that's everyone, and I checked at least once to make sure everything worked.

[Grassbridger]

Was gone all evening, will probably be gone all day tomorrow til late. I've skimmed the thread but I'm tired, distracted and a little drunk, so I don't have too much to say. Uh not liking Manix's claim because I don't follow what he says are the town implications/use of his role, like clearing cops. I think town tailor idling is the obvious move and I'm not sure why he needed to claim if he's not compulsive. Other than that, I intend to reread Prims' posts more closely, due to Via's strong insistence that he's scum, but idk what else right now.

[Percivalé]

not seeing furet as opportunistic fwiw

[Grace]

I think town tailor idling is the obvious move

this is fair

and I'm not sure why he needed to claim if he's not compulsive.

say someone rolecops me, and they get back tailor. the first assumption is going to be >scum tailor, since it was unclaimed. see: miller claiming before a aligncop guilties them instead of after

[Percivalé]

I w as thinking about it itnand I think Rein is scum noe because it just feels like he's pulling a lot out of his ass (let alone the "furet is opportunistic" thing which feels the same way) & yeah but I still want to lynch Prims

sorry about earlier I think I jsut got wya too excited and I was grumpy but anyway I'm not gonna sit here and tunnel on Prims/Rein all day I'll have other things once I read again but I have alcohol and fe7

if you want a real opinion on Manix though he is objectively postong like he does as town so he really doesn't concern me rn but the last time I thought that he turned out to be scum so ! I don't know why he wouldn't just idle as tailor though if he's not compulsive :/ I thought he was fsr and that's why I didn't really comment on his claim

[Percivalé]

fe6* im agay

[Prims]

actually gonna post again to point out this Thing I find suspicious:

Parrhesia, you said it's DAY 1 and nobody gives a fuck and yeah whatever. However, your vote is on me, and the crux of the case against me involves actions I took so people would post reactions and reading people on Day 1 would be less of a crapshoot for me. With this in mind I'm wondering why I'm supposedly the most suspicious person to you, even if not by much.

Basically: do you think I'm scummy because you read my posts and agreed with the people voting me, or because you saw there was a wagon on me and just went "fuck it"?

[Parrhesia]

Are you accusing me of being mafia because I have pointed out there is no solid evidence on the table and all anyone's going on is "they looked at me funny." Are you really doing this.

I read your posts and you sounded a bit suss, that is literally all there is to it.

[charlie_]

man I haven't posted at all since rvs

Don't think Manix is scum from the tailor claim at all, although I think there's way too much focus on that tbh.

I don't agree with Rein's attack on Manix, but I can see it coming from a townie perspective (kinda like Bal's death miller game with uhh, me vs Prims [i think] on cop claiming or not) and his refusal to back down on it cements that feeling. kirsche and the other votes on him for it bug me, kirsche's looks like an oversimplification of rein's post, furet's looks like... idk and poly's is basically voting rein for having a different opinion on manix's role and that manix should know how to play his role in a way that 100% won't screw over the town.

I feel like Prims is just kind of shitposting, it's null not town. That said I did agree with his kirsche vote. The redirect thing is hardly scummy because the maf could essentially use it as a scanguard or to frame someone and somehow nobody thought of it so if anything it would be detrimental for him to do as scum.

I think Via is pretty scummy right now actually. I know she normally defends Manix but really all her content seems to revolve around that and a random comment Prims made I figured was just a shitpost (srsly someone tell me what scum would gain from doing that) and her Rein opinion for being opportunistic which isn't really backed up with much and also seems kinda linked to Manix (at least I feel like his early Manix vote had something to do with it, correct me if I'm wrong.) I also don't like how she says "manix is posting like he does at town but last time he did that he was scum so idk", it just serves to invalidate her own opinions.

Poly reads as opportunistic to me for jumping on quickly building wagons (Rein/Prims) for meh reasons. Rein's post was really just a different point of view from Manix's, and as for his Prims vote

This post is bad. Like, scummy bad. Not all eventual scumteam members are defensive and self-conscious during games - which makes it a bad meta read for your justification - and then admitting that you basically did that bit for the lulz just... ugh. It doesn't do anything for the game when you do this aside from tack on useless posts to pad your ISO. And if you claim it's a reaction test, that's still really bad because your question is broad, generic and generally gets no actual info put out there.

##Unvote
##Vote: Prims

tl;dr: bad meta + scummy-looking backtrack + bs reaction test = Prims is gay obvscum

wrt bolded, yes, not all players are defensive etc as scum. But that doesn't make it any less of a scumtell for other players, so I don't really see how this is a scummy thing at all.
wrt italics, what is the gain for scum prims for doing something like that? seeming active isn't a towntell or a scumtell, so there's no cred to be gained from it at all and i doubt that prims thinks that it is.
wrt underlined, assume that it was really a reaction test for a second. what was prims supposed to claim about it? it did get reactions as well so I have no idea what your point is here.

His last post also had him magically forget about his Rein suspicion since he mentioned Shinori (the dude who he said one line on) instead of Rein.

##Unvote
##Vote: Polydeuces

[riariadne]

on the off-chance it's not, are you shitting me

I've decided to go for you when you looked slightly more scummy than everyone else, then I decided to go for Prims now that he looks more scummy than everyone else, keeping my options open because I'm acknowledging it's a fucking crapshoot right now, the only opportunity I'm taking is the opportunity not to look like a fucking twat on day one with no solid information, christ.

i was completely serious. did you actually expect me to be like nah jk i was just fucking with you bro it's cool

your first vote was just like HEY GUYS IT'S D1 and yeah you don't have that much information D1 but that doesn't mean you can't work with what's available to you. at the time it didn't look like anything more than bandwagoning considering you gave no reasons why I was scummy and your Prims vote seems rather barebones

would like a more in-depth explanation from via on why she thinks i'm scum because i think all there is on it was it feels like i'm making shit up (like what) and that i was opportunistic for voting on manix only because of his role (which is an oversimplification of what I'm saying). kirsche is guilty of this too except he said even less

the whole redirect thing with regards to prims seems like the most overblown thing in history and a lot of people are talking about it like it's a huge scumslip

polystuff

Rein's post before that seemed like he was deliberately avoiding Manix's explanation of his claimed role (or maybe he just didn't understand it, idk), the fact that he seemed a bit defensive IMO when he was called on his case by Manix, and the fact that even after that he replied to the criticisms against him, he still came off as defensive.

i have no idea what the fuck you're talking about with the role thing, i read and understood manix's role fine but didn't like it. of course I'm going to defend my case, did you expect me to drop it as soon as someone didn't like it?

/walling

[Strege]

Prims is obvscum for this alone

1) I didn't say Shinori was scum, but I did dislike his vote. Clarification. That said, he does ping me somewhat for his last post, especially the vote on you which was completely unfounded imo. Euk's vote also rubs me the wrong way as well, since it comes off more as buddying Shinori than actually having logical voting on you.

2) Rein's post before that seemed like he was deliberately avoiding Manix's explanation of his claimed role (or maybe he just didn't understand it, idk), the fact that he seemed a bit defensive IMO when he was called on his case by Manix, and the fact that even after that he replied to the criticisms against him, he still came off as defensive.

3) This post is bad. Like, scummy bad. Not all eventual scumteam members are defensive and self-conscious during games - which makes it a bad meta read for your justification - and then admitting that you basically did that bit for the lulz just... ugh. It doesn't do anything for the game when you do this aside from tack on useless posts to pad your ISO. And if you claim it's a reaction test, that's still really bad because your question is broad, generic and generally gets no actual info put out there.

##Unvote

##Vote: Prims

tl;dr: bad meta + scummy-looking backtrack + bs reaction test = Prims is gay obvscum

1) What pings you about Shinori besides the vote? You're currently weighing your top scumread between Prims and Shinori (though you're voting Prims) so I'm interested in what has you suspicious, especially as your comments on Prims are much more strongly worded.

2) Are you currently scumreading Rein? If so, how was he defensive? This is your first post since voting him, at which point he hadn't responded at all, and the wording of this paragraph really confuses me regarding your thought processes here.

3) I think this vote is... okay? I don't understand why a broad/generic reaction test is bad though, or why that makes his reaction test scummy. If a key argument is that Prims is padding posts than there are a lot more of his content available to analyze for that behaviour.

The disparity in tone between his Shinori and Prims reads followed by apparent equivalence in read intensity is pinging me here. Also him leaving a significant part of his reads on Shinori and Rein to the imagination, and (to a much smaller extent at this point) not commenting or asking about the rest of Prims's content.

##Unvote

##Vote: Poly

If it wasn't clear, that post wasn't intended to be accusatory so much as that I wanted them to give an explanation of their thought process behind asking me that so I could read them better.

If I was genuinely accusing them I would've moved my vote.

Asking questions ED1 isn't scummy, guys. I'm trying to move the game along so I can actually have opinions on more than 2 people!!

I'm super confused about basically this whole thing, so please bear with me for a moment. Is the question you wanted an explanation of "Why am I a scum candidate?" Why did you think that asking a question of your own would be an easier way to move the game along than answering the question?

I found it scummy but wasn't necessarily convinced they were mafia, so I felt I needed more from them before switching their vote.

Basically although I think what they're doing is scummy I can see them doing this as town due to anxiety and whatnot. I want to know their thought process so I can decide if they're upset town or upset scum.

What do you find scummy, and what do you now find scummy?

[Strege]

and (to a much smaller extent at this point) not commenting or asking about the rest of Prims's content.

Actually this part is bad; please ignore it.

[Strege]

Basically Prims's whole shtick feels like fearmongering to me and reminds me of a time Manix claimed third party and he tried to get everyone believe he was SK and lynch him. He also doesn't seem like he wants to lynch Manix because he is scum but just because "ït would be beneficial to town" and that is like a HUGE Primscumtell to me I guess. Maybe I'm just dumb though.

This seems like a hasty reading of Prims considering he voted kirsche, for one sentence and a vote, instead of Manix.

[Percivalé]

This seems like a hasty reading of Prims considering he voted kirsche, for one sentence and a vote, instead of Manix.

There are other reasons I think Prims is scum based on meta and ~~vibes~~ though, I can pile them together if you want. I just don't like writing longer posts but I can do it. I have to nurse a hangover first though

[Zkirsche]

I should not be playing.

Skimmed the thread. Rein still voting Manix is bad considering the reasoning was poor in the first place. I don't see how Manix's claim is any different to a miller claim. Is anything other than the claim scummy to you?

Furet is bugging me, their response to Rein was awfully defensive and I dn't know where his prims vote came from.

Don't think prims is scum.

[Percivalé]

Furet's response to Rein would be really bad to me (and his response to Prims too) but his defenses also read to me like someone entirely unused to mafia considering he hasn't played in 100 years and I don't find what he's said scummy because of that u__u

[Parrhesia]

i was completely serious. did you actually expect me to be like nah jk i was just fucking with you bro it's cool

your first vote was just like HEY GUYS IT'S D1 and yeah you don't have that much information D1 but that doesn't mean you can't work with what's available to you. at the time it didn't look like anything more than bandwagoning considering you gave no reasons why I was scummy and your Prims vote seems rather barebones

every vote i make on day one will be 'rather barebones' because we have no solid information to go on. this is the point i have been reinforcing with basically all of my posts. What, do you want a D1 No Lynch?

Furet is bugging me, their response to Rein was awfully defensive and I dn't know where his prims vote came from.

I apologise for defending myself when people want to lynch me because I cannot quote an essay on a Day One (1) vote, in future I will only post the message 'more weight'.

[Shinori]

Skimmed the thread. Rein still voting Manix is bad considering the reasoning was poor in the first place. I don't see how Manix's claim is any different to a miller claim. Is anything other than the claim scummy to you?

This is something that I didn't quite notice. I forgot Rein was still voting Manix which I honestly don't agree with. Surely someone else had to have caught your attention by now rein.

##Unvote:

##Vote: Rein

[scorri]

Ugh, right, I should post. Ok. (sorry, I've been sick for a while)

Uh, Furet's reactions read to me like him being him? Like... I unno, he's not exactly used to mafia and I was expecting him to be defensive tbh. I don't see why people think he's scum.

Same thing with Manix. I'd much rather him claim tailor so that people know it exists than just idle it. The way he immediately came out with a plan to try and make it worthwhile to town rather than just going "shrug, i'll just idle" makes me view him as town.

I think that Via defending Manix is a null tell. I think they'd be doing that regardless of alignment because that's something that they've done in past games. Honestly, I'd find it more suspicious if they weren't defending Manix.

I think that Rein's case on Furet is bad tbh. Furet's basically new to mafia and I think that he's been doing fine for his first day. Your push on him feels opportunistic, attacking someone for a pretty weak reason when you know they probably won't be as good at defending from it as someone who's more experienced.

##Vote:Rein

Besides that... screw it, I need to reread 7 pages and I just don't want to cause massive headache. We'll see if I can get more up in a bit.

[Shinori]

You'll get more from me later.

[BBM]

Objection has been prodded.

[Eurykins]

O....kay. 7 pages of content to go through- fun times.

Curly Brace's Tailor claim: Not sure what to make of it. I sort of understand the role, but I don't see it as one that's on par with a Miller claim (high priority to claim ASAP), nor do I see it as a smart move. Maybe it's my lack of experience with seeing/playing in a game with one, but the random claim seemed really unncessary and probably endangered himself moreso than helped us townies. Idk, I don't feel great about it.

Euklyd's Double-Vote claim: Lol, could be a hidden vote like my V game, or else he's lying. Like the above claim, it feels like the claim was unnecessary and just endangers the claimer moreso than it's worth to claim. (If it showed up on the votals, then it does; if it didn't, then there would be no need to claim it until you needed to?).

[Not sure if the above claims are just there to throw us all off, or if they're legit. Wtf is this game and its claims? >_>]

--Wrt the rest of the posted content [gonna put 'em in spoiler windows to cut down on the huge wall postings]---

[spoiler=Shinori's posts]

RUDE. >[

Regarding his other posts: I see very snarky/sarcastic Shinori posting style. I see/understand his concerns regarding the tailor claim, and his general posting style (he doesn't seem to be posting as carefully/reserved as I've seen him do so as scum) doesn't yell scum to me atm. Null, would lean more towards town on him.

[spoiler=Quote's posts]

Not sure how I'm liking Quote's posts- the first tunneling on Prims/semi-aggressive posting style (which may have been due to not feeling well, being tired, etc.) rubbed off gut feelings like from ED1 PoTC gameplay. I felt a similar drive/vibe in terms of trying to gun down Prims quickly early on, and regarding Manix in a similar light (remaining a null read on him) likewise parallels. Doesn't also have the super townish I generally have while reading his posts, so getting kinda wary atm of Quote. I'd say much more likely scummy than town atm.

[spoiler=Prim's posts]

Holy shit, he's posting this game with decent content/drive!

Reaction test: Eh, I can see that, but not sure if the way you posted here sounded the most convincing. Sounded a bit awkward imo, but could just be the way I read it.

This post makes me think you're more townish than scummish atm- like when you disregarded my own posts/chose to ignore them blalantly in-thread and moved to look at everyone else's.

However, not sure what to make of the latter parts of this post. (Regarding not wanting to post much else, due to not having many strong reads.) Wouldn't that be a reason for you to stay around the thread while other people will be posting (hopefully)? I see some plausible townie intent on not wanting to clog up the thread (reminds me of Rapier's "Let's post a lot but do almost nothing in the process (in terms of progressing the thread content/reads/etc.)!"), but not sure if that outweighs pushing for more reads/meaningful content/progress in-thread.

[spoiler=Parrhesia's posts]

This post, this, and this one all feel so.... scattered and otherwise just a mass of posts without much to contribute/put forth in terms of progressing the thread. Overall, from the posts I've seen (and at the time they were made), there was little to no effort to further reads, nor was there much commentary/thoughts regarding other posts/cases being put forth by other people. Feels like scummy Refa lurking about again- commenting tiny bits and pieces on one or two matters, but not really contributing to the efforts in-thread. Scummy 'til proven clean.

[spoiler=Poly's posts]

This post feels weird to me- the former chunk/paragraph regarding Manix's role seems more fluffy than it maybe needed to be.

Not sure I trust this post either, regarding the downplay of Manix's claim ["assuming it's a legit claim, which I'm inclined to think it is simply due to the general idiocy of a scum tailor claiming now"] into seeing it as an almost undeniably townie claim, especially if it entices us to immediately assume that Manix IS town purely based on assumption of said claim.

Like Parrhesia, scummy until proven clean.

[spoiler=Curly Brace's posts]

Still not sure what to think of this- I do not fully trust it as insta-townie claim.

This seemed a bit prickly/defensive for the RVS post that Shinori had (especially since he just LOL voted me and not him (Curly), and not sure where the blurb of whether he usually policy votes "negative utility roles" comes from/the relevancy. And then prodding him here for choosing to RVS vote (because he merely listed down his thoughts of someone else semi-legit while making his RVS vote)? Seems unnecessary.

This post feels a little strange to me, and adds to the overall prickly feeling I've been gathering from Curly regarding Prims (whose wagon seems to have picked up pace rapidly). Granted, Prim's "reaction test" and the post saying so did feel pretty weird. However, is saying that someone "is a scum candidate" due to their inactivity/lack of posting really that bad, when there have been some people who lurk and rarely post when they're scummy? In addition, in a way, I can see that logic coming into play, especially with someone like Quote/Bizz who's generally well-known for posting quite a bit in threads/games. (Though I believe I saw Quote post earlier regarding having slept in past the game start, resulting in later posting? Correct me if I'm wrong on that.)

In addition, listing someone as a "scum candidate", imo, isn't saying they're insta-scum, but that they have the chance TO be scum? So I'm not sure if that in itself was an over-reaction of Prim's comment regarding Quote.

Tl;dr: Null regarding the claim, and overall, null, but leaning a bit scummy due to reactions and posts against Shinori and Prims.

[spoiler=Euklyd's posts]

How is my name confusing? ._.

See above for comments regarding the double-vote claim.

From what I've seen/read: Eh, aside from jumping on what I see to be a very opportunistic Prims wagon (and sheeping quite a bit, as he himself has claimed to be doing), null read on Euklyd.

**And thanks for posting up the ISO's- made it a bit easier to read through/work out this post.

[spoiler=Strege's posts]

This seemed a bit too easy of a post/nit-picky on Shinori. After all, he even states that he has reasons NOT to vote Curly, yet you nag on him for not putting down his vote? That...doesn't make much sense at all?

His posts thereafter regarding Shinori's counter-points n' such felt reasonable enough/better than the former point, and his vote switching to Poly was reasonable enough. Null for now, though I'm getting a weird gut feeling leaning silghtly scummy.

[spoiler= SB's posts]

Well, since he (like myself) only has one real meaningful post, from what I see:

- Solid points regarding Quote (Via) and Poly, imo.

- Reasonable post/insight regarding other people/content so far.

Null, leaning more townie atm on him.

[spoiler=Reinfleche's posts]

Reasonable logic/concerns regarding Tailor claim/role/posts.

This latest post (according to the ISO page I have loaded up) does seem a bit... snarky-ish/sarcastic, maybe a little bit moreso than needed? But regarding the points within the post itself (regarding his responses towards Poly and Parrhesia), I find still valid/reasonable in themselves.

Overall: Null, leaning more townish currently.

TL;DR: Overall reads currently:

Parrhesia = Poly > Quote > Curly Brace

##Vote Parrhesia

**Disclaimer: It took me a while to compile this post (kept getting pulled AFK to help with moving things), so I may have missed a few post updates/people's posts. In addition, I'm not sure if I included everyone who'd been posting since the 7 pages, so if there are other arguments/points/people that I should/need to look at, please let me know.

[i'll also be helping my parents stain some cabinets and shelving today, so may be on and off with activity today and tomorrow.]

[Parrhesia]

This post, this, and this one all feel so.... scattered and otherwise just a mass of posts without much to contribute/put forth in terms of progressing the thread. Overall, from the posts I've seen (and at the time they were made), there was little to no effort to further reads, nor was there much commentary/thoughts regarding other posts/cases being put forth by other people. Feels like scummy Refa lurking about again- commenting tiny bits and pieces on one or two matters, but not really contributing to the efforts in-thread. Scummy 'til proven clean.

Parrhesia = Poly > Quote > Curly Brace

##Vote Parrhesia

This post is essentially masturbatory. I like how your deduction that I'm scum essentially comes down to 'he made a couple joke posts, he voted Prims once when he was literally the only person who'd said anything faintly scummy and he was once accused of being mafia for bullshit reasons'

oh sorry i guess i'm being defensive

[Percivalé]

Not sure how I'm liking Quote's posts- the first tunneling on Prims/semi-aggressive posting style (which may have been due to not feeling well, being tired, etc.) rubbed off gut feelings like from ED1 PoTC gameplay. I felt a similar drive/vibe in terms of trying to gun down Prims quickly early on, and regarding Manix in a similar light (remaining a null read on him) likewise parallels. Doesn't also have the super townish I generally have while reading his posts, so getting kinda wary atm of Quote. I'd say much more likely scummy than town atm.

Let's just say I'm trying something new this game.

Also I was reading through your post and you seem to find aggression scummy which I don't really agree with.

I'm gonna actually stop being a lazyass and start reading the thread now because everyone knows I think Rein and Prims should both be lynched atm lol.

[Eurykins]

This post is essentially masturbatory. I like how your deduction that I'm scum essentially comes down to 'he made a couple joke posts, he voted Prims once when he was literally the only person who'd said anything faintly scummy and he was once accused of being mafia for bullshit reasons'

oh sorry i guess i'm being defensive

Uh, I'm not sure you understood my logic. Making joke posts is fine, when things are in that swing/phase. However, you also were posting during times where arguments/other people were putting up other cases, and you seemed to be twiddling your thumbs and not responding to much of anything. You seemed so uninvolved/detached to the discussions happening around you, and your responses hardly seemed to have any sort of effort into them.

In addition, combining your reactions thus far/from the posts since I was making mine (and didn't see your latter ones), your sarcastic nature and responses without attempting to actually help/put forward any sort of meaningful reads/thoughts/scum hunting is just bad. Quite scummy, imo.

@Quote: Aggression is one thing, and it in itself (isolated/alone) doesn't have to be scummy. However, sensing untimely aggression mixed with vibes/feelings/posting styles that feel more scummish can be scummy to me, as those who can be overly aggressive/defensive in their posts usually hints at something in the long run.