My Little Pony: Friendship is Mafia (Game Over)

[Blitz]

wow, what the heck is going on????

anyways, it is funny that we are all split in 3 equal halves with mason as a judgeman, lol

gotta go read the thread, but I am at my cousin's place and net access is scarce

[Elieson]

Captain Optimism's Votal Time!

Prims (3): Refa, Mitsuki, Kay (L-1)
Refa (3): SB, Blitz, Prims (L-1)
Voteless Maggots (1): Baldrick


27.5 hours remain in Day 2. Hammer is 4, and phase ends with a No Lynch if a hammer is not achieved by phase end.

Edited January 31, 2014 by Elieson

[Blitz]

I don't know what Refa means about him claiming he did a lot on the day before, but I still think his only real content was after he was asked to do something or get lynched. His posts also had occasional subtle attacks on Kay from even before she came online, and that makes me think a kay and Refa scum team makes sense.

as posted by Jugdeman (since Protoman got replaced, lol)

(btw, this keyboard isn't allowing me to use the ctrl button and the mouse doesn't have a right click, so I am stuck with no quoting)

so, the scum teams that would make sense at the moment are Refa and Kay (the one I support) or Prims and Mitsuki (not supporting it, but just saying it is the only other one that makes sense. If SB was part of a scum team, IMO, the only combination that would make sense for SB is with me for the Day 1 Stuff (like how I attacked him and he attacked me back and iirc, Prims wasn't in any attack exchange with SB) we pulled,so, a Prims + SB makes less sense.

I still think Kay is scummy for D1 play, the stuff I said about her and Kirshce are overruled, but her play does look like scum!Kay to me.

well, anyways, (know my post lacks a straight train of thought), regarding claiming, I think Prims should claim his character, Refa should do an actual full claim along with Prims

I also think Prims should tell us why he thought Kay was suddenly a townie near the end of D1 and Refa should tell us who he thinks Prims' partner is if Prims is scum and why (this is applicable for Refa cause his reads are literally minimum)

SB should tell us what he thinks of the sudden Prims wagon and what he thinks of Prims now as well

I know my post is very bad, but I really can't think of anything else, please ask me what you want me to address

I will be around for a few more hours after which I have to get going though, but I really think the lynch should not take place until tomorrow (as in near the time of phase end so that we can have more opinions (I will support a Kay / Refa lynch)

[charlie_]

I just got home, and I have no idea why Prims is a wagon. Gimme a sec.

[Refa]

For my own thoughts, Refa is the worst to me at the moment.

Kirsche case not great. Firstly, he should be lynched IRL for misusing waffling. Blitz was doing one thing that's scummy and one thing that's not, no waffle there. And attacking blitz for dismissing his suspicion on you for no reason does not contradict with thinking the votes on you were overplayed.

Blitz basically said the same thing, yes it's not waffling, it's contradictory logic. :\

What is waffling is your verdict; you say your case bothers you because it's all about one of his cases, but it's fine because you can't dissect his case on you (why not? you can look at whether his case is justified FHPOV), and you temper your case by bringing up Not Me Over Me. That doesn't strike me as a town mindset; it you were genuinely suspicious of him it wouldn’t occur to you to say it imo.

Self bias is a thing. Why would I make a case if I was just going to say Not Me Over Me? Seriously, that seems like a huge waste of effort if I was scum.

Response to SB's case not great. What he says about kay is he agrees with blitz's reasoning, which is rather poor; he infers kay found proto's post scummy, which may not be the case as her suspicion is likely based on suspicion of bbm, and mitsuki's post is not necessarily worse than proto's in any case because she was being more open about sheeping. Nevertheless, the fact SB missed it does not invalidate that point.

As for the case on kirsche, it looking like bad scum play makes you look more townie, so it’s actually not a bad strategy for scum to come up with, especially as it can help secure a mislynch. Basically, it’s an infinite loop of WIFOM and makes me hate mafia even more. To be honest, I don’t like the way SB phrased that last bit, but the issue (for me, at least) is not the quantity of your reads but their quality.

Wait...what? Kay did vote Proto, not BBM. That was a thing. Also I would like you to quote this since I literally have no idea what you're talking about.

Well I guess you answered the previous question. Whatever, there's not really much I can say if you think I'm scum intentionally playing bad to look townie.

What's the scum intent for it?

It would allow a mislynch of one of the later on. I figure if more people were on board with the idea, BBM/Proto wouldn't be killed.

1) I think last time I just asked why you didn't say otherwise earlier.

2) Wait, what read on Blitz was this? Where was I suspicious of Blitzy?

3) It wasn't a pressure vote, and why was there no chance of him getting lynched, and I'm not sure why you're saying this was scummy. Because it was a votepark, because it wasn't clear if it was a pressure vote, both?

Primarily meta, the random gutread post and subsequent takeback, and partly just gut.

4) I kinda wanna say this is a scumslip but I don't know why that would come to mind as scum.

5) What post are you talking about?

6) Refa, what are your scumreads on people besides me?

1) I don't think you did? Meh, either way it wasn't an important point.

2) Where you said that Blitz wasn't playing to his meta (never specified alignment) by making normalish posts and therefore could be careful scum, which makes no sense.

3) Read as scummy to me because it was late in the phase and consolidation was starting to happen. Just felt like an easy way to get off of a wagon to me.

4) Hahahaha. How do I even mess up that bad seriously.

5) It's the post where you voted Prims IIRC.

6) Eh, I don't think you'd be Prims' scum buddy. I'd say either Blitz or SB really, SB being the more likely option.

I don't know what Refa means about him claiming he did a lot on the day before, but I still think his only real content was after he was asked to do something or get lynched. His posts also had occasional subtle attacks on Kay from even before she came online, and that makes me think a kay and Refa scum team makes sense.

as posted by Jugdeman (since Protoman got replaced, lol)

Mega Man reference 10/10

I don't get how my attacks towards Kay were subtle, I was scumreading her the whole day. :\

so, the scum teams that would make sense at the moment are Refa and Kay (the one I support) or Prims and Mitsuki (not supporting it, but just saying it is the only other one that makes sense. If SB was part of a scum team, IMO, the only combination that would make sense for SB is with me for the Day 1 Stuff (like how I attacked him and he attacked me back and iirc, Prims wasn't in any attack exchange with SB) we pulled,so, a Prims + SB makes less sense.

well, anyways, (know my post lacks a straight train of thought), regarding claiming, I think Prims should claim his character, Refa should do an actual full claim along with Prims

Lack of exchanges points more towards them being a scum team, not less. :\ It would be one thing if you said you found my exchanges with Kay forced, but the overall amount of exchanges doesn't corelate to people being more likely to be scumbuddies. That's just dumb.

Also I guess I will have to claim, since I'm at L-1. Thanks gays. I'm Even-Night Doc, hence the reluctance to claim Crumbed it before.

i didn't target anyone yesterday, or rather i couldn't.

[charlie_]

Okay. Response to Mitsuki's case on me first.

SB: Even after knowing he's roleless I suspect him, I think there still could exist a mafia goon in this setup.

So what do you think scum lacks then? Information or ways to fuck with townie's roles? Because if there's a goon, they lose both of those. Tbh this reminds me of the game Kilga hosted on motk where Prims pushed me when I basically should've been a clear to him. While it's slightly less clear cut I guess, it still feels scummy to me.

I don't think his first post D2 on Refa is valid, as I pointed out. It looks like SB decided to interpret Refa's actions as definitely scummy while ignoring that some points weren't true or there were alternate explanations.

I interpreted them as scummy because they were definitely scummy. When he's mafia, Refa has a tendency to make a lot of posts that don't really contribute shit readswise, and that's exactly what he's been doing this game. And if you considered

I also don't get why town would comment nothing in light of what happened around deadline while placing their new vote. His vote was on me on the deadline, I wasn't lynched and some players townreaded me but that doesn't make my alignment obvious. It reads as he's leaving options to vote open depending on how things turn out.

I've been busy, sue me. WRT the last point, I've fallen asleep near deadline as town before (I think it was in Group?) and my vote was on a mason claim so yeah...

His reaction to me saying that I thought he was scum was also bad, he didn't choose to explain why my result made him townier from his point of view but overreacted instead. It's the kind of thing I'd expect someone who doesn't want me to express my opinion to do, and only scum would be concerned like that.

Because a goon is unlikely to exist with an already powerful town with >Masons in 9p and supposedly your role too (which I'm doubting tbh, sounds just like a fakeclaiming Rolecop). Plus there might be a protective role or something somewhere too. The mafia would need roles in order to combat the town's at this rate.

It also seems opportunistic to have such a complete Refa case all of a sudden while bringing up points that he could have made at the time but ignored them. He also did that before with his case on me.

Making a big case is opportunistic how? Also, I made a decent number of the points earlier in the game so it's not like my Refa suspicion materialized out of thin air either, I've been gunning for him for a while.

Looking at the Prims votes in my next post.

[Mitsuki]

if youre good at reading me then why are you voting me when im town

If you're town why are you assuming I'm wrong and town here while saying that I could still be scum in your other posts?

This looks like a scumslip to me.

[Mitsuki]

So what do you think scum lacks then? Information or ways to fuck with townie's roles? Because if there's a goon, they lose both of those. Tbh this reminds me of the game Kilga hosted on motk where Prims pushed me when I basically should've been a clear to him. While it's slightly less clear cut I guess, it still feels scummy to me.

Information, probably, as there aren't that many town roles and my role is also useful to scum. I'm not good at all with role stuff, though. I'd like to have other players' opinions but nobody has said you were confirmed town due to my result, so...

I interpreted them as scummy because they were definitely scummy. When he's mafia, Refa has a tendency to make a lot of posts that don't really contribute shit readswise, and that's exactly what he's been doing this game. And if you considered

Good to know this meta read, but this has nothing to do with the part of your Refa case I'm saying is bad.

Making a big case is opportunistic how? Also, I made a decent number of the points earlier in the game so it's not like my Refa suspicion materialized out of thin air either, I've been gunning for him for a while.

Making a big case isn't opportunistic, what I meant is that you brought up points that you could bring up before but didn't. I still don't like such a thing, but I've reconsidered and this point in particular doesn't really mean much.

[Mitsuki]

If I forget to reply something please tell me.

Mitsuki is a thing as well. The only thing I have to add on her is the strange choice of action and the opinion change on prims because scum can’t pretend to be urgent when it’s close to deadline. I’ll read her a bit later but she’s not a priority for me today; I’d rather lynch one of the other three atm.

Scum can pretend on the deadline, but it won't usually look genuine.

I already explained my action. SB doubted my role, he was neutral to me at the time and I know it's hard to read him properly. I would have targeted him even if I hadn't needed to claim.

[charlie_]

@Mitsuki: how is that a scumslip. Seriously. Also just because you're normally right about Prims doesn't mean that you can't be wrong here, or that you can't be scum here. Saying "I'm always right" doesn't convince anyone.

Lost a post earlier on this stuff so I'm keeping this short.

Refa: Basically, earlier in the phase he was townreading Prims (or at least he was leaning that way?). Then after Prims advocates a quicklynch on him he pretty much reacts terribly and is 100% sure he's scum for doing it and drops his Kay vote despite the fact that it was far more substantial. Basically a bad vote.

Mitsuki: Also flipped on her Prims read extremely quickly, for basically being confusing. Prims kinda does this sometimes, so I really don't see this as a tell about him. The fact that you're so willing to toss a townread out just because of this is really concerning to me.

Kay: Was actually suspicious of Prims beforehand and never really dropped it from a skim. Her case is actually okay imo, I can sorta see the waffling as a genuine point, but I dunno I'm still reading Prims as null myself.

Basically Kay's vote is alright imo but both of the others are bad votes that jump all over the place

[Mitsuki]

@Mitsuki: how is that a scumslip. Seriously. Also just because you're normally right about Prims doesn't mean that you can't be wrong here, or that you can't be scum here. Saying "I'm always right" doesn't convince anyone.

I'm not always right and I haven't said such a thing.

I think it's a scumslip because of the perspective, Prims was talking there as if he knows I'm town when what he says in other posts is different.

You seem to understand that I'm saying that I'm confirmed town with that but I'm not saying so, I know I'm not.

[Mitsuki]

@SB: I forgot to mention that the main reason I switched my opinion on Prims is my gutread, not my meta. I'm more confident on my scumread now than on my townread before. Basically I could see myself being wrong about my townread, but not about my scumread now.

Speaking of which, what do you think of Prims? What do you think of Refa's claim?

[charlie_]

@Prims: Well, the meta is just an attempt to explain this better to other people, because gut is not meta. It's not like I read a bunch of games and then became good at reading you, literally the first time I saw your 3rd party/scum/town play I identified it properly way before you flipped. I don't really care on whether you have a static playerstyle or not because I'm good at reading you regardless of that, deal with it.

I pretty much took this as "I'm always right about Prims" soooooooo

Also Prims had you as like, a potential third scumspect in case one of Refa/Kay flipped town, so it's not unreasonable he'd say that.

[Mitsuki]

Nah, I was wrong once and even before that I knew I could be wrong.

You still don't know what I mean. I wish I could explain better, but I don't really know how to do so. It's frustrating.

[Baldrick]

Prims' fakeclaim is kinda shifty to me. He's basically betting the game on his Refa suspicion. I know it's in-character no matter his alignment but it makes me kind of uncomfortable.

Refa's claim might even be worse. He said "his claim wouldn't help on D1" but he is doc, even an even-night one, being lynched is a very bad thing especially when there is mason claims around. somebody with more time than I can have a look at how he was feeling towards proto and bbm. I recall he was trusting them since he thought kay being suspicious of them was bad?

if prims is scum, still think mitsuki is a logical buddy. if refa is scum, I don't really know actually. I thought he and kay were going at it a bit too hard to be buddies so maybe blitz? idk

I'll read other things later and maybe comment if I get the chance

bye

[Prims]

I don't remember why I thought Kay was town at the end of D1. Not even joking.

uuugh Refa claim. I feel like his late D1 play plus reaction to me fucking around has all been very scummy, but the role seems to fit in the set-up. However I don't like the way he crumbed it - for all we know he could have just been vanilla, and there's no actual crumb pointing to him being a Doctor in his posts. Trying to pass off "I couldn't act last night" as an even-night crumb and not just a passive ability crumb seems questionable.

[Prims]

Having actually read Refa's post beyond the claim I now realize he's still content voteparking on me and not his actual Kay case without reading my ISO like he promised he would.

Full steam ahead. Don't care about the claim when he's playing like scum.

[Prims]

Regardless of his flip I'm gonna feel bad about switching to kirsche D1 though. So close to another D1 doc turbolynch yet so far.

[Prims]

http://mittlittlebrony.tumblr.com/

[Prims]

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Prims*, Radiant Dragon

[Mitsuki]

Refa's "crumb" is meaningless, yeah, but no counterclaim makes me doubt even more that he's scum. It'd also be stupid to fakeclaim doctor when the most likely thing is that there's already a player in the setup with that role.

[Baldrick]

"Couldn't act" implies he is an active role that had to idle N1.

Prims feeling bad about not lynching refa indicates he knows he's a different faction. Lynch pls.

Mitsuki, how do you figure there has to be a doc? Setup is probably 7/2, and has masons + what may or may not be a functional cop. Of course rolespec is useless without at least one scum flip, but I would think scum would be given tenable fakeclaims.

[Prims]

Prims feeling bad about not lynching refa indicates he knows he's a different faction. Lynch pls.

you could hammer either of us right now if you wanted. there is no real point in stalling out the day

i maintain that people trying to read into my meta / word choice are Dumb As Hell though. this never catches scum. intent catches scum but unfortunately for mafia that makes it a little bit harder to bullshit up a case on me since even though i'm doing a lot of Silly Stuff i'm not doing anything with scum intent

[Prims]

Kay's wall of quote remarks where she votes me is terrible btw. "Prims is being lazy scum pushing an easy lynch without a case" yes I was pushing easy lynches on your #2 choice for scum and a person with no other votes I am glad you noticed. That aside, this is a case. This is also a case. Kay is literally summing up her vote by lying about my D2 actions.

My waffle on Kay isn't really unreasonable, my gut was picking up on her general effort level and deadline posts here. Then I re-read and decided her deadline posts were bad and figured that why her posts are giant they aren't particularly memorable and Kay has put in a similar level of effort as scum before.

I still think Refa dropping his Kay case to vote me because I made a dumb joke is an open and shut case. Town doesn't get over cases they made that easily. He still hasn't done that ISO on me, and he has no reason to now that I'm an easy lynch. His last post barely even talks about me.

[Prims]

I am also frustrated that Blitz seems to have given up on scumhunting individually instead of just throwing around scumpairs or whatever. Despite saying he'd take full responsibility for the kirsche lynch he hasn't actually done much since then, which makes me kind of paranoid about my townread on him. Basically, same as D1, who is scum and why?