SFMafia's Greatest Hits - Day 6

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

not voting gaius 2day. i was jus scum w/him n his play dis game iz markedly different. 1 games not a reliable pool sample but ima yolo it!!

[Prims]

guys guys Marf is still town. I'm going to ask you guys to isolate this from the reads you had on zerosabers and consider the two big points:

a) Gilgamesh wanted to push zerosabers as his counterwagon. Gilgamesh voting her (#392) brought the wagons to 3 on him and 3 on zerosabers' slot. When Gilgamesh outs that he had info on Shinori (#422), he keeps his vote down. In what world does scum treat a buddy this way? The obvious conclusion is that zerosabers and Shinori were both not-scum, so Gilgamesh kept voting zerosabers planning to only switch to Shinori if there was interest there - basically whatever got non-mafia lynched. also, something I just noticed: Gilgamesh didn't seem to realize zerosabers had already been replaced at this point and ignored Marf's content entirely, which would imply they're not buddies.

b) Marf/Bluedoom has a history of claiming his role earlier than necessary, but only as town. He did it in this game to cast doubt against a town player who was already a major target. Even ignoring meta, this is the OPPOSITE of scum play - it puts the spotlight on him and makes people look at him funny when the townie he's counterclaim gets lynched, at the expense of a townie who scum doesn't need help making look bad. Interestingly enough, he softclaimed in his first post after subbing in, so he'd have to have been planning this fake from the very start.

the interactions don't add up to scum!Marf. all the arguments I've seen against these have been "BUT WHAT IF" then give some contrived explanation which doesn't fit scum's standard agenda in these games, let alone what seems to have been Gilgamesh's and what is usually scum!Marf's. it's like people just want to cling to their case. I'd probably budge sooner on Gaius than Marf.

All I really have on Elie is that his scum-reads are rather nebulous. D3 he said he wasn't doing much because his suspects weren't posting / were posting rarely, then later Omega is his other confident scumread at that point. @Elie: if this is true then what happened to your Marth read at that point? Why were you asking questions of everybody who wasn't posting but not Omega when Omega actually was around, just posting little? Your only interaction with him didn't lead anywhere so it's just out of nowhere. Your case on Gaius, while not bad, is pretty random. Why were you letting him off the hook on previous phases? Furthermore, what happened to your play-based reasons for suspecting Marth's slot from D2? You just dropped him on D3 then never explained why, now it's like nothing ever happened.

Before today I was writing Elie off since his D2 effort looked like town!Elie. Today, it's still not a very strong case, but PoE's pointing me here and when you think about it, Elie hasn't ever done anything concretely townie.

@Marf: yo I just wrote up a huge defense of you and all but. Who is scum??? if you're town you need to work to show people that since we're nearing endgame. if you're scum then I'm also going to be kicking myself for letting you go when you're not really doing anything. so. DO SOMETHING.

@YOLO: thoughts on Elie? I've noticed you haven't said anything about him, like, at all the whole game.

Will talk about BBM and Gaius in my next post as this has already been a lot of words and was tiring to write. I wanna take a break but I don't want to leave you guys hanging.

[Bluedoom]

I'm guessing snike is some limited cop and not itp cop because that'd be lame.

I feel like i'm the only one who thinks omega is faking doc to avoid the lynch. The thing is scum don't even need to kill him tonight to bring in mylo, if he's town.

Its a little frustrating for me here because no one reads as extremely scummy but i would go bbm/gaius/omega over the others.

The thing with bbm is that even though i found his play townie earlier its not as telling as prims/eli's townplay since, as prims said, it'd be easy to itp hunt and then sign people off as townreads and pick lynches. Since there is no d1/d2 commitment on reads, its easy to change your mind.

I feel like gaius' hammer last phase need not be coincidental and eli gave a good example of dondont151.

Also note that when a gilg lynch was being pushed he was still either pushing lynches on j/hannah or weapons who guilty'd a third.

[Bluedoom]

Prims so far i'm townreading eli for non-snark and lots of effort into the game. What do you make of it? I'm not used to scum eli being a lot more lax in play.

[Donald Trump]

##unvote

hmm

[Prims]

I also found Elie's effort townie, it's just that there's only been one burst of strong effort, and after that his reads start to dissipate and it's like he's not doing much with them. Which means he may just be mafia playing well. A lot of Elie's past lurkscum games have been affected by external circumstances.

idk why non-snark makes Elie town, he can get snarky as either alignment from my experience.

What do you make of Omega being the only doc in the set-up, as well as the flavorspec? Also, do you have a more "put-together" case on Gaius or is it just PoE?

What gives me pause on Gaius is that I thought Gilgamesh hammering dondont to "test Gaius' claim" didn't make sense for scum/scum. Thoughts on that?

[Donald Trump]

if gaius is hiding an active ability, "proving gaius' claim" makes sense cuz it lets town know that, yes, gaius' ability IS that of a hammerer, while being able to slide away with anything else, for one.

[BBM]

Getting townreads and then PoEing is what I do almost every game as either alignment... Plus, characterizing my entire play as that when I've legitimately made cases on the people left from my pool of PoE (Omega, J) is incorrect. Not saying that me defending Hannah should get me auto-brownie points but if I'm going to be mislynched, I'd at least like it to be on the basis of an actual case.

@prims- not sure what you mean by lylo being lost if everyone is wrong about me? Because as far as I can see there isn't really a consensus on my alignment. Do you mean if I'm scum and people elect not to lynch me or if I'm town and mislynched?

@gorf- I assumed that SB sent Weapons his role PM shortly after he first claimed that he didn't have one, but wasn't that still like halfway through D1? idk I guess I just can't really see why even Weapons would keep up a joke for that long. I would ask Snike to confirm when Weapons got the role PM but I'd imagine he'd corroborate either way since I already said I thought it made him town.

My main gripe about Elie off memory was that there are some points where he kind of just throws feelers out? He'll push someone but not really commit very heavily to the read, and just sort of subtly try pushing people. I've found his effort and tone townie, but I can't really remember any strong reads or cases he's made all game. Kind of leaning towards voting him right now cuz I don't feel like I have a better option.

The reason I suggested massclaim, more than being suspicious of Elie, was that having all the claims in full would let me kind of know how many utility, how many investigative, and how many protective claims there were, to try and see which combination of claims made most sense.

I also feel Marth is town thinking about it because I feel the claim is too elaborate to be totally a fake. If he's scum, it would be part of his actual role. But it doesn't make sense for mafia to have a BPV on the night the SK isn't killing. I'm not even sure whether it would stop Gorf's kill or not.

[BBM]

why does Gaius have a role in addition to Mayor? I call hax

gaius, is the other part of your role an active night action? fsr I never checked with SB whether my target is notified of being motivated during the night when they can act twice or the day before.

[Donald Trump]

what the fucking shit is a mayor holy fuck

[Prims]

doublevoter

[Snike]

I'm literally just a third party cop. I can tell whether or not someone is third party. Flavor is from the endgame of Toonami.

With that in mind, I don't know if hyper delayed motivator would even be that useful in this setup? Maybe it's supposed to be effectively useless but still...

Double A is bothering me, because he went from wanting to lynch me to sort of backing off, even though I'm playing like shit now in the sense that I haven't done much. I might be misreading it as that's based off of Gilgamesh VS Previous!Me, but I'm also sort of paranoid that because neither myself nor he died from the night kill n2, he might've just bussed gilgamesh and used that for cred.

But let's stop the press, because BBM just called Gaius' role mayor.

##Vote: BBM

@AA: Mayor = doublevoter. That's the first mention of it by BBM, despite having been here since d1 and having previously discussed the role. It's very very odd, and could possibly be a scumslip.

Also, I'm not going to talk about the whole weapons incident until after the game. So I'm not going to confirm nor deny the time Weapons got his role PM.

[BBM]

what?

[BBM]

##Vote: Elieson

I'll type up more tomorrow morning I guess but it basically comes down to what I said earlier. Honestly I'm not that confident but this is my best guess right now.

[Elieson]

@Prims

For most of the game I had a bard time following Omega at all, but because so many other people townread him despite his content posts being overall pretty small in thickness. He kinda reminds me of a typical town!paperbrad in the sense that his posts are just more short and frequent, but cover one point at a time without much explanation behind em. I don't usually get a confident scumread in Paperbrad so yea same here. I felt like I was just missing something and kinda went along with it and focused my efforts on people that I had more confident reads on.

Re gaius thinf: I didn't really consider it likely that Gaius and Gilgamesh could be scum because of the whole Gilgamesh "lets test the claim" thing, but that's an associative townread that I think I banked on too heavily earlygame as I just kinda ignored Gaius as possibly being scum for all of D2/3 due to it.

Case on Gaius makes sense since with roles behind us it logically makes sense that if a mayor (doublevoter) is involved, it'd be one of us, and since Gaius claimed that his role ignores modifiers from mayor, loved and hated, it makes me think that it just exists more than likely. Coupling that with the fact that I spent all of d2/3 townreading him and suddenly have a reason to more closely examine his play just brought me to a conclusion whereas before I just had a "Oh duh he's just town" mentality to him.

POE for me clears Gorf and Omega, and makes Snike look pretty good. That leaves 4 people aside from myself to examine. I can't really say my thoughts on Gaius are PoE related. V BBM, sure, but not Gaius.

Thoughts on the Gaius/Gilgamesh thing make me just wonder what Gilgs motives were and without any definitive information, it's just spec that he who was already getting negative attention couldn't just ramshackled a response or just wasnt paying that much attention to the game at the time. It made Gaius look good but since he and Gaius aren't mafia noobs, a bus could've been considered to make Gaius look more townie despite claiming a negative utility role. With clears racking up and Gaius's play being all over the place, things just aren't adding up and despite the above, things just read to me now like it was a gambit

[Elieson]

Woah snike

[Prims]

But let's stop the press, because BBM just called Gaius' role mayor.

##Vote: BBM

@AA: Mayor = doublevoter. That's the first mention of it by BBM, despite having been here since d1 and having previously discussed the role. It's very very odd, and could possibly be a scumslip.

dude it's a variant on a voting role. this means nothing unless gaius flips scum mayor and you know it. how much of the thread have you read? it doesn't look like you've read much

[Snike]

dude it's a variant on a voting role. this means nothing unless gaius flips scum mayor and you know it. how much of the thread have you read? it doesn't look like you've read much

Why the fuck would you call it a mayor all of the sudden if you've been playing the entire game up until today without mayor being brought up? It looks a little like an attempt to sow confusion and/or an unintentional admission about yesterday.

The other thing is that 2Delayed Motivator + doctor + all the anti-kill roles claimed in this game feels off, especially since kill power isn't very strong as-is? Like it would seem really strong to have a motivated doc in that lategame scenario.

[Donald Trump]

so it is doublevoter

mkay

DOUBLEVOTER was probz mentioned cuz of the fact that gaius wound up hammering hannah yesterDay despite being the 5th member of the wagon. but i think the notion of him being a doublevoter is ridiculous, considering the fact that he a) has no conventional use for it if he swings at l-1 and b) a mod-made anonymous dv that is also hammerer is fuckin dumb and stupid. im telling you, there couldve been a bookie of sorts but in the end guessing about WHAT caused the early lynch is stupid. gaius' play is just way too uncanny for me to be okay with

[BBM]

@Snike

a) I haven't been playing the entire game; I subbed in halfway through D2.

b) I'm not the first person to refer to Gaius as a mayor.

c) this is the first time I'm mentioning Gaius's rolename directly so it's not like I suddenly did something out of the ordinary.

d) why would Gaius call his role Mayor among his buddies but not in the thread? It's not like Mayor is a scummy role.

e) Successfully motivating the Doc would require either luck on my part, or the Doc to survive for several night phases after they claimed.

f) Doc and other strong roles being motivated is like... why motivator is a good role, and why it was nerfed to be delayed.

@Gorf- I don't think anyone was suggesting he was a mayor/doublevoter AND a hammerer. Anonymous mayor (used before on this site) and hammerer are essentially the same role though, so I was just using them interchangeably in my head.

Also, you can tell me who to target but I'm not really sure what difference it would make? You don't have a night action, Marth doesn't have a night action, Snike doesn't have a useful night action, I don't think Prims and Gaius have night actions, and Omega has one but he's not going to survive long enough to confirm. That leaves maybe Elie, whom I could target but I don't think he's town anymore (coming up next post).

[BBM]

yeah I know I kept saying I would write an Elie case but I'm reading his ISO and I just can't put words to it coherently or pretend this is something I can write a wall about. It's just being kind of unmemorable I guess. He's kind of consistently pushed Omega the last two phases but it just doesn't seem like he's that invested in it actually? also I agree with him about Gaius not having many new cases but his Hannah vote wasn't really "welp PoE" since he'd been voting her since D1.

also as I was reading Elie's ISO I looked more at the Gaius vote shenanigans and I don't get it. Is my understanding of Gaius's role completely wrong? I thought 'Hammerer' meant his role automatically lynched people at L-1 if he was on the wagon. Can you explicitly say what your role does again Gaius?

however I was also looking at the rolespec about protection roles and now I'm agreeing with it and thinking SB might have given Doc as a fake. idek anymore. kind of deciding between Elie and Omega right now. except nobody other than maybe elie is going to vote Omega today so I'm just going to go with Elie.

Phase ends in around 5h I think? I have to leave in like 5-10 minutes though and won't be back for phase end. I'm thinking like Elie > Omega > Gaius right now I guess. Probably you guys are going to lynch me since nobody except Gorf is townreading me though so uh... please don't do that?

[Prims]

uhhh we still have a full 24 don't we

@SB: votals pls

[charlie_]

(2) BBM: Omega, Snike

(1) Gaius: Elieson

(1) Elieson: BBM

(4) Not Voting: Gorf, Prims, Gaius, Bluedoom

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch. There are roughly 28 hours and 2 minutes left in the phase.

Edited August 13, 2015 by SB.

[ZoesMad]

Ok I'm really trying to finish this post before I have my first test today, so this is a heads up that I'm here.

[Donald Trump]

yeeeeeeea getting you to prove your role isnt gonna be that easy...

unfortunately that makes me less inclined to put a stop to your lynch (i guess ill support it if it gets close enough to deadline) and think your lynch, regardless of alignment, will probz be helpful cuz, at absolute worst, itll give most of town closure on the most suspected slot going into mylo.

still rather gaius and think yolo is homo

##vote gaius