Playing efficient with my Team PT

[Anouleth]

Her turncount isn't bad at all. It's only bad if you're speedrunning, when she isn't.

Her turncount isn't inherently bad. I can understand slowing down if you find it difficult to juggle very fast turncounts and training people. It's more that given this kind of turncount, she should have been able to promote three units...

[dondon151]

Only 1-E is kind of bad, by any means.

[RNG Princess]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hWBUHEvSsY

500 BEXP
8turns? 9 turns

Unit    Lvl    HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS   Support

Elincia  1.44  36 19 19 21 22 29 18 24
Marcia   6.02  35 18  6 20 22 12 17 15
Nealuchi 22.6  53 10  4  9 18 24 10 10
Leanne   5.60  25  0  3  1  6 27  2 11
Haar    11.57  49 23  2 26 20 13 23  7

I actually killed everyone in 7 turns :3. Marcia took all the kills except one that Elincia killed herself, and both another enemy and the boss which was fed to Haar. I didn't keep track of character stats ^^'. Nealuchi was detransformed one turn so he could raise his laguz gauge, I don't like using stones on anyone but herons or Ulki/Jannaf/Volug. Part 2 is so easy I love it <3. BTW idk to put 8 turns or 9 turns i've seen others put 9 turns but I have no idea why.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Queen_Elincia

[Narga_Rocks]

i've seen others put 9 turns but I have no idea why.

On defend maps like 2-P, the game counts an extra turn. Same for 3-7. Basically, if turn 8 "ends", then the counter seems to count an imaginary turn 9 that is starting when the map ends.

This doesn't happen for 1-5, however, because the last turn never ends. There is no ally phase in the last turn, so the last turn never rolls over into a 7th turn.

Stuff like that happens in other games too. In fe7, chapter 31x is always 6 turns (I think, instead of 5).

Edited January 26, 2011 by Narga_Rocks

[Junkhead]

Take Lyre Endgame.

[Shadow Mir]

Nealuchi was detransformed one turn so he could raise his laguz gauge, I don't like using stones on anyone but herons or Ulki/Jannaf/Volug. Part 2 is so easy I love it <3.

To be honest, I tend to do that as well. Also, I'm pretty conservative with laguz stones, other than in 2-E, where I need Mordecai blocking those stairs pronto.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Malik Maxwell

[NinjaMonkey]

Take Lyre Endgame.

Isn't this supposed to be an efficient playthrough?

Then again she is using Fiona, so...

[Junkhead]

To be honest, I tend to do that as well. Also, I'm pretty conservative with laguz ztones, other than in 2-E, where I need Mordecai blocking those stairs pronto.

You bothered fixing 'stairs' and not 'ztones'?

Isn't this supposed to be an efficient playthrough?

Then again she is using Fiona, so...

Lyre is easier and actually fun/not-frustrating to use over lolFiona or As*trid. What's worse of these three?:

- "Oh I get 1RKO'd by everthing right off the bat and my damage and Hit sucks, even with forges. It doesn't help that I am only available in two chapters before the end of Part 1"

- "I can chip, run away, and that's about it. Doesn't help I lack 1-range, never get any better without statboosters and Blossom use which would hinder my Exp gain. And then there's my 4 chapters before Endgame..."

- 'Catgauge' and "Similiar combat to Mist & Heather" seem to sum it up. At least she can be given the same attention as Astrid to be actually functionable at combat for more than a round. A transformed Lyre is actually durable.

What makes the first two better is because they do something when applied effecient roles, even if that has to be Astrid's case (Chipping at 2-3 one or two even if it isn't necessary).

Edited January 27, 2011 by Soul

[Narga_Rocks]

- "Oh I get 1RKO'd by everthing right off the bat and my damage and Hit sucks, even with forges. It doesn't help that I am only available in two chapters before the end of Part 1"

Actually, Fiona survives a surprising number of enemies in 1-7 (more than half). Though yes, her hit kinda sucks even with a max hit forge. At least, if I apply +25 hit to an iron weapon I'd expect to have near 100% hit even with unfavourable bios.

[Shadow Mir]

You bothered fixing 'stairs' and not 'ztones'?

Lyre is easier and actually fun/not-frustrating to use over lolFiona or As*trid. What's worse of these three?:

- "Oh I get 1RKO'd by everthing right off the bat and my damage and Hit sucks, even with forges. It doesn't help that I am only available in two chapters before the end of Part 1"

- "I can chip, run away, and that's about it. Doesn't help I lack 1-range, never get any better without statboosters and Blossom use which would hinder my Exp gain. And then there's my 4 chapters before Endgame..."

- 'Catgauge' and "Similiar combat to Mist & Heather" seem to sum it up. At least she can be given the same attention as Astrid to be actually functionable at combat for more than a round. A transformed Lyre is actually durable.

What makes the first two better is because they do something when applied effecient roles, even if that has to be Astrid's case (Chipping at 2-3 one or two even if it isn't necessary).

...I'm not answering that.

As for the second part, cat gauge and having Mist-level attack is very very damning. And leveling up at a snail's pace transformed and being unable to do anything that isn't roll over and die untransformed practically seals Lyre's fate. Not to mention that even transformed, Lyre's still made of glass pretty much. Plus... What's so "non-frustrating" or "fun" about using Lyre?

Edited January 27, 2011 by Malik Maxwell

[Dark Sage]

Lyre is like Mist and Heather in combat but not content to be similar to the worst two combat units on the team, she also is even worse than them. Cat Gauge for one thing, but also no forges, and no 1-2 range. Heather can at least forge herself a knife to keep up a little in damage while having 1-2 and Mist has Florette. Lyre is stuck having to fight at close range with a terrible gauge and terrible might and forced to eat a counter.

And lol at Lyre being durable transformed.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Dark Sage

[Florete]

- "Oh I get 1RKO'd by everthing right off the bat and my damage and Hit sucks, even with forges. It doesn't help that I am only available in two chapters before the end of Part 1"

A Seraph Robe actually helps Fiona quite a lot in durability. I remember running the numbers and it dropped the number of enemies who can ORKO her by at least half.

- "I can chip, run away, and that's about it. Doesn't help I lack 1-range, never get any better without statboosters and Blossom use which would hinder my Exp gain. And then there's my 4 chapters before Endgame..."

2 range technically makes using weaker characters easier because they don't risk taking counters. And if Blossom helps, you're already feeding her, so why not?

- 'Catgauge' and "Similiar combat to Mist & Heather" seem to sum it up. At least she can be given the same attention as Astrid to be actually functionable at combat for more than a round. A transformed Lyre is actually durable.

Cat gauge and base Mist level atk is pretty damn horrible. You've seen the numbers I ran, surely. At least Fiona and Astrid can kill weakened enemies, something Lyre has a difficult time doing, and do it on every turn at that. I don't know how you can even think Lyre is easier to make "functional" than Astrid (who really isn't that hard to use), and I'd say Fiona is easier as well.

Lyre is easier and actually fun/not-frustrating to use over lolFiona or As*trid.

No. Especially the "fun" part. Wtf @ that.

[Junkhead]

Maybe I just find her more easy to use because of her availability. Like I stated, Fiona doesn't have any time to get to 20/1 even if you feed her tons of kills at 1-7 & 1-E, like I did in my current HM run (She got to 20/0). Lyre costs you lots of precious BEXP and then Blossom just so she can double enemies for 1-digit Dmg.

And lol at Lyre being durable transformed.

Alot of enemies at 3-4 have 30 Atk. The strongest have have around 34 Atk. Getting 3HKO'd by most of them is bad?

What's so "non-frustrating" or "fun" about using Lyre?

No. Especially the "fun" part. Wtf @ that.

Cat. (:

To sum it up... I don't know what the hell you've been smoking, Soul, but I DON'T want it.

May I ask you what you were smoking when you said Ilyana is as good as Caineghis & Giffca at taking down Dheg? Oh, wait. Opinions aren't smokeable.

[Florete]

Lyre costs you lots of precious BEXP and then Blossom just so she can double enemies for 1-digit Dmg.

Exactly! It's no wonder she's so terrible.

[Shadow Mir]

Maybe I just find her more easy to use because of her availability. Like I stated, Fiona doesn't have any time to get to 20/1 even if you feed her tons of kills at 1-7 & 1-E, like I did in my current HM run (She got to 20/0). Lyre costs you lots of precious BEXP and then Blossom just so she can double enemies for 1-digit Dmg.

Alot of enemies at 3-4 have 30 Atk. The strongest have have around 34 Atk. Getting 3HKO'd by most of them is bad?

Cat. (:

May I ask you what you were smoking when you said Ilyana is as good as Caineghis & Giffca at taking down Dheg? Oh, wait. Opinions aren't smokeable.

Thank you so much for proving what we've been saying about Lyre - she's PATHETIC.

Are you talking normal mode? Because I'd be expecting those numbers to be a liiiitle bit higher.

I like cats... in real life, that is.

...That isn't nearly as farfetched as what you said.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Malik Maxwell

[NinjaMonkey]

Are you talking normal mode? Because I'd be expecting those numbers to be a liiiitle bit higher.

I believe it's Hard Mode that we are talking about (since that is what QE's playing).

[Shadow Mir]

I believe it's Hard Mode that we are talking about (since that is what QE's playing).

I'm suspicious of the stats Soul put up, that's all.

[Dark Sage]

3HKO'd isn't very durable Soul. It's merely average at best and it's not going to stay that way forever.

Oh and availability means next to diddly squat when you're not contributing ever. And Lyre for the most part, is completely useless. At best, if you put all those resources into her and take a bit of extra time and so on and so forth, you get an average unit. At least Fiona can help out with rescue chains and so forth to help with a quicker clear and at least she has a terrific affinity, growths (if you pile on all the resources that you put on Lyre), and caps to back it up. Lyre literally has nothing going for her.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Dark Sage

[Anouleth]

At least Fiona can help out with rescue chains and so forth to help with a quicker clear and at least she has a terrific affinity, growths (if you pile on all the resources that you put on Lyre), and caps to back it up. Lyre literally has nothing going for her.

But Fiona also has horrible movement penalties and poor stats. For example, a 20/20/10 Fiona only has 27 or 28 strength and 26 or 27 skill. This means she does not have the attack to reliably 2HKO Endgame sages with a Spear and has unreliable hit (like 155 hit against 70 avoid). A 20/20/5 Fiona has 25 or 26 strength, 24 or 25 skill and 28 speed. That falls short of doubling many enemies in late Part 4 and even if she did double, she only has 43 attack with a silver forge, which fails to 2HKO many enemy types. So even once you get over her serious level deficit she is still below par and probably not worth deploying in Endgame over Tanith, Marcia, or Nephenee. Even Oscar would probably be better.

[Narga_Rocks]

In Lyre's case it is mostly that if you put enough work into her, you get a unit that ORKOs 64% of the time with Rend and capped hp. Basically, she'll be passable. Fiona and Astrid are much harder to get to the point of passable offence, but they perform much better along the way.

[Junkhead]

Are you talking normal mode? Because I'd be expecting those numbers to be a liiiitle bit higher.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=14643&view=findpost&p=443607

3HKO'd isn't very durable Soul. It's merely average at best and it's not going to stay that way forever.

Hence the "very". I didn't say it's insanely durable. Just durable. And 'average' isn't a bad thing at all. It's what Mia/Boyd/Rofl & Nephenee have in concrete durability. Except Lyre only slighlty tops Boyd's HP and looses Def by 1 point.

Oh and availability means next to diddly squat when you're not contributing ever. And Lyre for the most part, is completely useless. At best, if you put all those resources into her and take a bit of extra time and so on and so forth, you get an average unit.

It should be obvious that I already know that the othertwo are better at effecient standards. It's because, like I said earlier, they can do something. But I'm not referring to the little bit of negative/gross utility they have, otherwise I wouldn't even bother to argue that Lyre in the end is actually better than the other two.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Soul

[Shadow Mir]

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=14643&view=findpost&p=443607

Hence the "very". I didn't say it's insanely durable. Just durable. And 'average' isn't a bad thing at all. It's what Mia/Boyd/Rofl & Nephenee have in concrete durability. Except Lyre only slighlty tops Boyd's HP and looses Def by 1 point.

It should be obvious that I already know that the othertwo are better at effecient standards. It's because, like I said earlier, they can do something. But I'm not referring to the little bit of negative/gross utility they have, otherwise I wouldn't even bother to argue that Lyre in the end is actually better than the other two.

Okaaay... But you ignored the Steel Poleax generals for whatever reason.

All right.

Either way, when you're looking at 22 base attack + being a cat, I don't see any reason to bother.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Malik Maxwell

[RNG Princess]

Lyre starts at level 17 she'll need 13 levels to get to level 30 in order to have Rend. It seems like she'll need a lot of BEXP (blossom is a nice trick). With her experience gain feeding her bosses would help it seems. Her lack of two range and cat gauge is not good i'm pretty sure raising all three Meg, Fiona, and Astrid would be faster and less expensive than raising Lyre herself. It seems to me that way, or maybe I'm not good at all with laguz ^^' but in this playthrough there is no way I'm using Lyre she's too weak.

Astrid is the best of the worst ^_^ she has the best luck and seems to avoid alot more. Also like RFOF said 2 range really helps raising weaker units and none of the other bottom tiered characters except Oliver have good hit on two range besides Astrid and maybe Meg shooting down ledges.

In Lyre's case it is mostly that if you put enough work into her, you get a unit that ORKOs 64% of the time with Rend and capped hp. Basically, she'll be passable. Fiona and Astrid are much harder to get to the point of passable offence, but they perform much better along the way.

Of the 3 I think Astrid being Parablossomed and given a right forge would make her the easiest one to get passable offence.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Queen_Elincia

[Junkhead]

@Ritcher: For some strange reason, I knew I should have put "Inb4Veryfewenemieswithover34Atk", because I knew you would find some stupid reason to sandbag my point.

Astrid is the best of the worst ^_^ she has the best luck and seems to avoid alot more. Also like RFOF said 2 range really helps raising weaker units and none of the other bottom tiered characters except Oliver have good hit on two range besides Astrid and maybe Meg shooting down ledges.

Luck doesn't mean much when your Spd is just bad. =/

Edited January 27, 2011 by Soul

[RNG Princess]

Chapter 2-1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCzDKzXokoE

1950 BEXP

7 turns

Unit    Lvl    HP ST MG SK SP LK DF RS   Support

Nephknee 2.18  32 17  6 22 22 12 17 15
Broom    2.47  36 19  4 17 16 13 21  9
Feather  7.00  32 15  6 19 20 12 15 14

Although I like Nephenee, Brom, and Heather I really don't like this chapter, I think its one of the most boring ones. Brom gets to the top houses, and Nephenee/Heather get the bottom houses except the one with the javelin on it ^^'. I got lucky with Nephenee because she wrath-crit-killed the boss. I restarted this chapter several times because Neph would get killed ^^'. Brom gained his own exp too ^_^ YAY BROM.

Ohhh I forgot to mention I did sell Vika's shriek and Volug's howl.

@ Soul as long as Astrid reaches 20 speed she won't get doubled in 3-11 ^^' hopefully she gets 3 speed level ups it sucks having 40 speed growth :/ they should of cut some luck growth and given her more speed growth.

Edited January 27, 2011 by Queen_Elincia