Rate the Unit, Day 18: Sue

[Shadow Mir]

an iron lance has 12 weight, while the iron bow has 5 weight.

An iron lance only has 8 weight.

[Onmi]

An iron lance only has 8 weight.

Which actually doesn't change his point, it drops her AS down by 4 points. 4-8 = -4

Thany's Base Speed is 12 so 12-4=8

Sue's Base Speed is 8 with a Con of 5. Iron Bows can be used with no AS loss.

[Bryan]

An iron lance only has 8 weight.

Oops, that's what I meant. I typed that after I did my calculations.

[Shadow Mir]

Which actually doesn't change his point, it drops her AS down by 4 points. 4-8 = -4

Thany's Base Speed is 12 so 12-4=8

Sue's Base Speed is 8 with a Con of 5. Iron Bows can be used with no AS loss.

I know. Just nitpicking.

[riariadne]

Mainly because Ward can't attack many enemies without dealing with an abysmal hit rate or being doubled for a huge chunk of his health, while Dorothy comes FREE DEPLOYMENT in a chapter where even her bases manage to double half the enemies on the map (it's chockful of soldiers)

it's funny because ward actually doubles and ORKOs those guys and dorothy can't even say the latter

[dondon151]

wait yeah ward comes free deployment in like 4 chapters

[ShinRPGamer]

While one of the better archers in the game, her strength sucks and without an energy ring you better be prepared to keep her by Roy for a while.

6.5/10

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

the above post is wrong on so many levels

General points I made, in bullet form:

1) Ward is countered for significant damage by many enemies at base, and fails to have an impressive offense against many who don't trash him. He does decent (and the problem doesn't rear its ugly head) in C2 and C3, although he's nothing spectacular; he fails to double some of the knights and soldiers (those with 2 AS), since he comes at 5 SPD base, while Lott can, with only 1 STR less at base. In addition, he has 73 Hit base before enemy avoid and WTA/WTD -- this gives him a ~77% displayed hit chance (90% true) with an iron axe against a 1-2 AS with WTA; pretty much the absolute best case scenario for him.

However, C4 and C5 are less...optimistic. C4 cavs with 9 AS or more (I'd say probably 50-70% of them) do (14 ATK-3 DEF+1 WTA)x2 = 24 damage/round with a 95% displayed rate (99.55% true) with an iron sword or (16 ATK-3 DEF-1 WTD)x2 = 24 damage/round with a 61% displayed rate (70% true) with an iron lance. He has 28 HP, so they counter him for 85% of his health if he tries to attack them ever. You can try to set up killing blows for him to get him past his bases, but he has a 41% displayed hit rate (37.41% true) against iron sword cavs and a 61% displayed hit rate (70% true) against iron lance cavs.

In C5, steel axe fighters attack him for 22 damage with a 53% displayed hit rate (56% true), iron axe fighters with 9 AS attack him for 19x2 damage with a 68% displayed hit rate (79.84% true), mercs with iron swords attack him for 12-14x2 damage with a 100% hit rate, mercs with steel swords attack him for 15-17x2 damage with a 96% displayed hit rate (99.72% true), nomads with iron bows attack him for 12x2 damage with a 86% displayed hit rate (96.22% true) and those with steel bows attack him for 16x2 damage with a 73% displayed hit rate (85.69% true). So basically, almost everything ORKO's base Ward on counter, and everything almost ORKO's him. Ward's SPD or LUK or DEF do not skyrocket when he levels once or twice, so this basically is what he faces early-game. C6 and C8 soldiers are probably a respite for him (if you deploy him for whatever reason), but C7 is brutal for him.

So please tell me why Dorothy (or almost any character in FE6) is worse than THIS, considering she has C6 to train up a level or two if you want to use her, can attack without taking a counter, and has effective damage against the wyverns in C7 or any other flyer she comes across? I mean, I gave her a 4/10 or 4.5/10, which basically is "Free deployment with some contributions like Ward, but with the realistic possibility of being trained and doing something productive if you choose to".

2) I'll clarify -- I like Dorothy's growth distribution more; wouldn't you agree that Sue would be better with more STR growth and less SPD growth? I'd probably like Sue more if she had Dorothy's STR and SPD growths instead of her own STR and SPD growths. 20/5 is used as a baseline, since no particular playstyle is mentioned in the OP; any equivalent will work, like 19/6, 15/10, etc., and I'd think 20/5 is a pretty reasonable end-game level for many playthroughs. If your fastest generic enemies are rocking 19 AS (that I can find on the HM enemy stats thread), 24 AS is a little overboard, especially when your SPD growth appears to be coming at the expense of your STR growth. Sue obviously wins because of the pony, but yeah...

3) I wanted to give a little more of a gap between Sue and Dorothy than I did, but I put Alance at 6.5-7/10 and putting Sue there would cause problems, and she's certainly not Bors or Ward level, which I put at 1-2/10, not at archer level which I put at 3-4/10, so..yeah, 5-5.5/10.

EDIT: The sad part is that Ward doesn't even double a decent portion of the soldiers in C6, only those with 3 SPD/iron lance or are wielding a javelin or steel lance.

Edited March 21, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Raven]

Well I don't like Lance even though he is better, and I like Sue even though she is worse. It balances out. Bias, I believe, is the correct word here.

Not sure why I am justifying my choice of scores between two units, but whatever.

[Venusaur]

Bowlocked pre-promotion, but has a horse and better bases than Dorothy. Pretty cool chip damage and rescuechaining, but not much outside of that.

+1 bias points for my first completed FE6 playthrough where I used her to great effect, so...

6/10

[Dark Sage]

So please tell me why Dorothy (or almost any character in FE6) is worse than THIS, considering she has C6 to train up a level or two if you want to use her, can attack without taking a counter, and has effective damage against the wyverns in C7 or any other flyer she comes across? I mean, I gave her a 4/10 or 4.5/10, which basically is "Free deployment with some contributions like Ward, but with the realistic possibility of being trained and doing something productive if you choose to".

Ward is free for 4 chapters, and in some of the early maps available, he's decent (against soldiers and knights). Dorothy only has one chapter and has stats equivalent to Wolt while having the same movement type. 4>1.

Also a lot of the enemies on the isles have 1-2 range, which means Dorothy doesn't always avoid a counter.

2) I'll clarify -- I like Dorothy's growth distribution more; wouldn't you agree that Sue would be better with more STR growth and less SPD growth? I'd probably like Sue more if she had Dorothy's STR and SPD growths instead of her own STR and SPD growths. 20/5 is used as a baseline, since no particular playstyle is mentioned in the OP; any equivalent will work, like 19/6, 15/10, etc., and I'd think 20/5 is a pretty reasonable end-game level for many playthroughs. If your fastest generic enemies are rocking 19 AS (that I can find on the HM enemy stats thread), 24 AS is a little overboard, especially when your SPD growth appears to be coming at the expense of your STR growth. Sue obviously wins because of the pony, but yeah...

No. Enemies are fast in this game and their speed doesn't stagnate for very long. Being unable to double but having greater strength often kneecaps your offense, especially if you're going to Sacae. I'd gladly take Sue's growth spread any day of the week over Dorothy's.

EDIT: The sad part is that Ward doesn't even double a decent portion of the soldiers in C6, only those with 3 SPD/iron lance or are wielding a javelin or steel lance.

If Ward procs speed, he can get the 4 speed soldiers w/iron as well (not saying this is likely but it is possible). In any case, Dorothy can't really ORKO soldiers either. Just because she doubles doesn't mean she ORKOs.

[Baldrick]

Her strength is pretty bad, and she has bowlock. Shin is a better nomad, especially on HM, but she does have some potential if you train her (have fun at Sacae). I give her a bonus point for recruiting Shin, but a point off for making me go to Sacae.

3/10

[Anouleth]

How did anyone get that Dorothy is better than Ward? She's slower initially (hard to believe I know, but she has 4AS with a Steel Bow, and even with a Steel Bow she deals less damage per hit than Ward) and is barely even more accurate, with a paltry 3 hit lead (and that's if Wade only gains 2 levels in earlygame, if he gains 4 levels they tie), except she doesn't even have WTA on anything. If anything, Ward is beating /her/ in hit rates, and his position only gets better because his hit rates grow faster (10% luck growth lead) and he gains levels faster due to not being an Archer. And eventually he gets his own 80 hit weapons after promotion.

No doubt, someone is going to say "but anouleth what if you give her an Iron bow and also i am stupid and don't know anything". Well, good luck getting to deal 0 damage to stuff, since with the Iron Bow Dorothy in Chapter 7 will tink Armours, deal 3 damage a hit to Cavaliers, and 5HKO Archers (and they 2HKO her back).

Plus, Ward, unlike Dorothy, 2HKOes Chapter 6 Soldiers. Dorothy will 3HKO with both Steel and Iron, meaning that she still takes as many rounds as him to kill something. Indeed, only 4/12 of the Soldiers can even have more than 1AS. And obviously he wins Knights and Archers, so there's that.

[dondon151]

1) Ward is countered for significant damage by many enemies at base, and fails to have an impressive offense against many who don't trash him. He does decent (and the problem doesn't rear its ugly head) in C2 and C3, although he's nothing spectacular; he fails to double some of the knights and soldiers (those with 2 AS), since he comes at 5 SPD base, while Lott can, with only 1 STR less at base. In addition, he has 73 Hit base before enemy avoid and WTA/WTD -- this gives him a ~77% displayed hit chance (90% true) with an iron axe against a 1-2 AS with WTA; pretty much the absolute best case scenario for him.

- ward's offense is bad

- allen and lance don't ORKO soldiers

now tell me ward's offense is bad. he also faces the same #RKO numbers as allen or lance.

so basically what you're saying is:

- ward isn't as good as marcus or dieck (or rutger)

NO SHIT, SHERLOCK.

However, C4 and C5 are less...optimistic. C4 cavs with 9 AS or more (I'd say probably 50-70% of them) do (14 ATK-3 DEF+1 WTA)x2 = 24 damage/round with a 95% displayed rate (99.55% true) with an iron sword or (16 ATK-3 DEF-1 WTD)x2 = 24 damage/round with a 61% displayed rate (70% true) with an iron lance. He has 28 HP, so they counter him for 85% of his health if he tries to attack them ever. You can try to set up killing blows for him to get him past his bases, but he has a 41% displayed hit rate (37.41% true) against iron sword cavs and a 61% displayed hit rate (70% true) against iron lance cavs.

too bad. you have to use him, deal with it. you're either stupid or desperate to have him hit an iron sword cav and in the latter case, you might as well try to hit the guy anyway because it's a reset either way.

In C5, steel axe fighters attack him for 22 damage with a 53% displayed hit rate (56% true), iron axe fighters with 9 AS attack him for 19x2 damage with a 68% displayed hit rate (79.84% true), mercs with iron swords attack him for 12-14x2 damage with a 100% hit rate, mercs with steel swords attack him for 15-17x2 damage with a 96% displayed hit rate (99.72% true), nomads with iron bows attack him for 12x2 damage with a 86% displayed hit rate (96.22% true) and those with steel bows attack him for 16x2 damage with a 73% displayed hit rate (85.69% true). So basically, almost everything ORKO's base Ward on counter, and everything almost ORKO's him. Ward's SPD or LUK or DEF do not skyrocket when he levels once or twice, so this basically is what he faces early-game. C6 and C8 soldiers are probably a respite for him (if you deploy him for whatever reason), but C7 is brutal for him.

chapter 5 has the highest HM bonuses for enemies in the game for a long while and chapter 7 is brutal for anyone not in the earlygame gang of four (marcus, dieck, rutger, zealot). no surprises here.

So please tell me why Dorothy (or almost any character in FE6) is worse than THIS, considering she has C6 to train up a level or two if you want to use her, can attack without taking a counter, and has effective damage against the wyverns in C7 or any other flyer she comes across? I mean, I gave her a 4/10 or 4.5/10, which basically is "Free deployment with some contributions like Ward, but with the realistic possibility of being trained and doing something productive if you choose to".

ok uh how about this

she's basically totally useless, has inferior base offense to this unit whom she's purportedly better than, has no hope of even having a chance at being useful for effectively half of the game, and has a shorter period of free deployment than ward (during which she contributes less because her starting position in chapter 6 is atrocious and marcus can easily kill 60% of the map by his lonesome). there are a grand total of 3 wyverns in chapter 7, which are halfway handled by silver lance blows and are otherwise better dealt with someone with better movement (like sue).

and if ward's hit rates against chapter 4 iron lance cavs are soooo terrible, what about dorothy's base 56 disp hit (61.7% true) against chapter 7 wyverns with a steel bow, hm? i'd hate to imagine that we're really banking on that chance to avoid a game over!

2) I'll clarify -- I like Dorothy's growth distribution more; wouldn't you agree that Sue would be better with more STR growth and less SPD growth?

uh, no, actually, because sue has enough trouble doubling enemies as it is with her unspectacular spd base.

3) I wanted to give a little more of a gap between Sue and Dorothy than I did, but I put Alance at 6.5-7/10 and putting Sue there would cause problems, and she's certainly not Bors or Ward level, which I put at 1-2/10, not at archer level which I put at 3-4/10, so..yeah, 5-5.5/10.

part of this statement is right on the money. dorothy's not at bors or ward level; she's worse.

EDIT: The sad part is that Ward doesn't even double a decent portion of the soldiers in C6, only those with 3 SPD/iron lance or are wielding a javelin or steel lance.

there are 2/8 starting soldiers on that map with iron lances. everything else has a javelin or a steel lance. furthermore, none of the soldiers starting on the sides of the level have iron lances, so ward will never face them, anyway.

oh yeah also if you're so keen on assuming 2 levels in chapter 6 for dorothy, then i can assume 5 levels or whatever in chapters 2-5 for ward, which means that he can double chapter 6 soldiers on average. gg thanks for playing

Edited March 22, 2012 by dondon151

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

- ward's offense is bad

- allen and lance don't ORKO soldiers

now tell me ward's offense is bad. he also faces the same #RKO numbers as allen or lance.

so basically what you're saying is:

- ward isn't as good as marcus or dieck (or rutger)

NO SHIT, SHERLOCK.

Ward has worse MOV, worse hit rates, worse SPD (Alan only starts 1 SPD ahead but has a notably higher SPD growth), and lower availability than Alance. I'm putting their combat capabilites above his pretty easily.

too bad. you have to use him, deal with it. you're either stupid or desperate to have him hit an iron sword cav and in the latter case, you might as well try to hit the guy anyway because it's a reset either way.

Who IS he attacking? I wouldn't have him attack anything not an archer or a 8 AS cav on that chapter. Hell, even pitting him against most of iron lance cavs is a bad idea, since most of them double him. In fact, they do the same damage to him as the iron sword cavs, they just only have a 1 in 2 chance to not hit twice as opposed to being practically guaranteed to crush him.

chapter 5 has the highest HM bonuses for enemies in the game for a long while and chapter 7 is brutal for anyone not in the earlygame gang of four (marcus, dieck, rutger, zealot). no surprises here.

C5 is still one of his "four great free chapters" you all tout. He's literally worthless on C5 (and nearly so on C4), and it doesn't even matter that he's free deployment because he doesn't...do...ANYTHING. C7 is especially brutal when you suck as much as Ward; most characters you have don't lose almost all of their health on a counter...not Alance, not Dieck, not Rutger, not Marcus, not Lugh, not Dorothy, non of the C7 newcomers. Why would you deploy him here? I can give you a good reason to deploy any bow user.

ok uh how about this

she's basically totally useless, has inferior base offense to this unit whom she's purportedly better than, has no hope of even having a chance at being useful for effectively half of the game, and has a shorter period of free deployment than ward (during which she contributes less because her starting position in chapter 6 is atrocious and marcus can easily kill 60% of the map by his lonesome). there are a grand total of 3 wyverns in chapter 7, which are halfway handled by silver lance blows and are otherwise better dealt with someone with better movement (like sue).

The wyverns can be taken care of with silver lance uses. They can also eat around 10 damage from a base Dorothy with only an iron bow, and a fair bit more with a steel bow. Sue has more mobility, and also works, but there's little reason why you can't take both of them.

and if ward's hit rates against chapter 4 iron lance cavs are soooo terrible, what about dorothy's base 56 disp hit (61.7% true) against chapter 7 wyverns with a steel bow, hm? i'd hate to imagine that we're really banking on that chance to avoid a game over!

My point is that if Ward misses, he's probably going to eat a counter that nearly kills him. Dorothy is going to...well, miss and be just fine. That's the difference. I can set up kills to get Dorothy out of her bad bases -- it's way harder to do that with Ward. And considering Alance are doing like 2-5 damage to the 12 DEF wyverns and eating 16-17 damage counters and bow users don't have to put up with the counter, then yeah, they're useful.

uh, no, actually, because sue has enough trouble doubling enemies as it is with her unspectacular spd base.

Yeah, her SPD base is a little low, but her base STR is worse off. Enemy DEF also isn't laughable, and I'd rather she take a little longer to grow out of her SPD base and, later in the game, fail to double everything and settle for doubling 80% of things, if it actually meant her STR was decent. I'll figure we'll agree to disagree on this one.

part of this statement is right on the money. dorothy's not at bors or ward level; she's worse.

She is free deployment, useful enough in C7, anti-flyer, and you can train her easier than Ward. So she's better.

there are 2/8 starting soldiers on that map with iron lances. everything else has a javelin or a steel lance. furthermore, none of the soldiers starting on the sides of the level have iron lances, so ward will never face them, anyway.

Fair enough. I couldn't remember how many soldiers were deployed with less than 2 AS. Marcus weakens a bunch of them with a javelin anyways; Dorothy (or anybody who I want to feed EXP) has no issues finishing them off.

oh yeah also if you're so keen on assuming 2 levels in chapter 6 for dorothy, then i can assume 5 levels or whatever in chapters 2-5 for ward, which means that he can double chapter 6 soldiers on average. gg thanks for playing

Dorothy can get a level pretty easily in C6, since finishing off soldiers actually gives her decent EXP. Ward...you know what? Go and try to get him 5 levels in chapters 2-5 while pulling low turn counts. Go on. Try.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[PuffPuff]

Sue can go to Bows which have higher ATK/HIT/Flier effectiveness anyway. (Lance is better than Sue, I'm just being contrary for the sake of it).

If he wants to give Lance and Sue the same rating, whatever, let him. Who cares if his "logic" is dumb (I mean I wouldn't give anyone points for recruiting people, but hey), I thought the point of these topics were for people to give their personal opinions on characters and rate them. If we want to regulate people's votes so much, we might as well just skip the voting and just go with whatever the topic creator feels is the right score.

They should get voted extra for that as that proves that they are an importance to recruit some characters.

While one of the better archers in the game, her strength sucks and without an energy ring you better be prepared to keep her by Roy for a while.

6.5/10

Not like she needs it when she uses powerful bows in no time at all and has a high chance to crit with her good skill of course.

Ward has worse MOV, worse hit rates, worse SPD (Alan only starts 1 SPD ahead but has a notably higher SPD growth), and lower availability than Alance. I'm putting their combat capabilites above his pretty easily.

Who IS he attacking? I wouldn't have him attack anything not an archer or a 8 AS cav on that chapter. Hell, even pitting him against most of iron lance cavs is a bad idea, since most of them double him. In fact, they do the same damage to him as the iron sword cavs, they just only have a 1 in 2 chance to not hit twice as opposed to being practically guaranteed to crush him.

C5 is still one of his "four great free chapters" you all tout. He's literally worthless on C5 (and nearly so on C4), and it doesn't even matter that he's free deployment because he doesn't...do...ANYTHING. C7 is especially brutal when you suck as much as Ward; most characters you have don't lose almost all of their health on a counter...not Alance, not Dieck, not Rutger, not Marcus, not Lugh, not Dorothy, non of the C7 newcomers. Why would you deploy him here? I can give you a good reason to deploy any bow user.

The wyverns can be taken care of with silver lance uses. They can also eat around 10 damage from a base Dorothy with only an iron bow, and a fair bit more with a steel bow. Sue has more mobility, and also works, but there's little reason why you can't take both of them.

My point is that if Ward misses, he's probably going to eat a counter that nearly kills him. Dorothy is going to...well, miss and be just fine. That's the difference. I can set up kills to get Dorothy out of her bad bases -- it's way harder to do that with Ward. And considering Alance are doing like 2-5 damage to the 12 DEF wyverns and eating 16-17 damage counters and bow users don't have to put up with the counter, then yeah, they're useful.

Yeah, her SPD base is a little low, but her base STR is worse off. Enemy DEF also isn't laughable, and I'd rather she take a little longer to grow out of her SPD base and, later in the game, fail to double everything and settle for doubling 80% of things, if it actually meant her STR was decent. I'll figure we'll agree to disagree on this one.

She is free deployment, useful enough in C7, anti-flyer, and you can train her easier than Ward. So she's better.

Fair enough. I couldn't remember how many soldiers were deployed with less than 2 AS. Marcus weakens a bunch of them with a javelin anyways; Dorothy (or anybody who I want to feed EXP) has no issues finishing them off.

Dorothy can get a level pretty easily in C6, since finishing off soldiers actually gives her decent EXP. Ward...you know what? Go and try to get him 5 levels in chapters 2-5 while pulling low turn counts. Go on. Try.

All in truth, Ward is better at being fodder than anything else.

-----

Recruting her wastes time if your going on the Ilia route. But she has great stats in everything but Str. Her Str doesn't get too bad either overtime by her short amount of time to use powerful bows in no time at all along with her great skill, having a horse, being able to recruit the best bow unit in the game, Shin. So..

She gets a

6.5/10

Edited March 23, 2012 by リンダ

[Shadow Mir]

Not like she needs it when she uses powerful bows in no time at all and has a high chance to crit with her good skill of course.

All in truth, Ward is better at being fodder than anything else.

-----

Recruting her wastes time if your going on the Ilia route. But she has great stats in everything but Str. Her Str doesn't get too bad either overtime by her short amount of time to use powerful bows in no time at all along with her great skill, having a horse, being able to recruit the best bow unit in the game, Shin. So..

She gets a

7.5/10

I'm highly tempted to reply to this, but I feel I'd only be wasting my breath...

[Anouleth]

The wyverns can be taken care of with silver lance uses. They can also eat around 10 damage from a base Dorothy with only an iron bow, and a fair bit more with a steel bow. Sue has more mobility, and also works, but there's little reason why you can't take both of them.

You only have one Steel Bow. If Sue uses it (and she should), Dorothy can't.

My point is that if Ward misses, he's probably going to eat a counter that nearly kills him. Dorothy is going to...well, miss and be just fine. That's the difference. I can set up kills to get Dorothy out of her bad bases -- it's way harder to do that with Ward.

I'm pretty sure that it's not that hard for Ward to gain 3 or 4 levels in two chapters.

Moreover, Ward only gets ruined by Chapter 4 and 5 enemies because they get doubled HM bonuses. Ward will have likely gained a point of speed by Chapter 7. He's pretty decent against Soldiers and Knights; certainly, better than Dorothy. I remind you that 7/12 Soldiers in Chapter 6 carry Javelins. Not only does Ward double and ORKO them, they are way less of a threat to him than they are to Dorothy (they 2HKO her). You also have Mages which also counter Dorothy, Knights which Dorothy barely damages at all and doesn't double, and Archers that Ward is obviously way better against.

So it seems like Ward is a hell of a lot easier to train in Chapter 6 than Dorothy is. Especially considering that Dorothy will be taking the "chip" damage instead of finishing kills.

She is free deployment, useful enough in C7, anti-flyer, and you can train her easier than Ward. So she's better.

I don't think she's easier to train than Ward. She has all of five enemies that she's better against; two Mercs in Ch. 6 and the Wyverns in Chapter 7.

Dorothy can get a level pretty easily in C6, since finishing off soldiers actually gives her decent EXP. Ward...you know what? Go and try to get him 5 levels in chapters 2-5 while pulling low turn counts. Go on. Try.

Ward doesn't need to gain 5 levels in chapters 2-5 in order to beat Dorothy when she shows up.

In addition, so what if Dorothy can gain a level in Chapter 6? Dorothy has to gain waaaaay more than a level per chapter to stay competitive, and with Ward-level combat, that's not going to be possible. Maybe she gains a level in Chapter 7 too. Obviously none in Chapter 8. Maybe one in 8x, another in 9. Well, she's on track to be a 10/1 squib by the time Igrene shows up and smokes her in every stat forever.

Edited March 22, 2012 by Anouleth

[Sunwoo]

Guys ... if you're going to argue Dorothy vs. Ward, shouldn't you guys take it out of Sue's thread?

[Ϲharlie]

Guys ... if you're going to argue Dorothy vs. Ward, shouldn't you guys take it out of Sue's thread?

Indeed.

Guys, this discussion regarding Ward and Dorothy is interesting, but it doesn't belong here. Please take it to either Dorothy or Ward's thread (doesn't matter which one) or make a new thread entirely.

[RNG Princess]

Sue is the best early bow user to train imo ^^' I like her speed a lot but I don't like her lack of str. I give Sue a 6/10.

[Integrity]

, being able to recruit the best bow unit in the game, Shin. So..

7.5/10

@ANYBODY WHO GAVE SUE CREDIT FOR RECRUITING SHIN: Don't have done that. Go undo that and change your scores if necessary.

;/

I guess I'm going to have to make this dead-on explicit. Okay, then.

This post will be updated with a list of people who have to revise. Before you get uppity with me, frat, it's all because they didn't follow this, not because I "don't agree" or some other horsecock. Tallying, but Sue's score will be a WIP since I'm going to leave you sods some time before I lock it out of spite.

NOTE: if you didn't actually factor Shin's recruitment into your score, please clarify that to me here. I'm going to be a little more totalitarian than usual, so you might get stuck here even if you were just mentioning that she recruits Shin rather than factoring it into a score.

So if you're here, kindly either change your score to reflect the fact that recruiting Shin shouldn't factor, or tell me that you didn't actually factor that and this was a misunderstanding.

リンダ

PKL, I'm throwing your vote out because for the love of love, dude. Not only have you never used Sue, you've never played FE6? Come on. I'm not voting because I've never beaten FE6 HM, even though I've played NM through about a half-dozen times.

postponing this issue for zealot; not retroactively enforcing it

Edited March 23, 2012 by Integrity

[Frosty]

Done; just re-edited my vote again... but the score is still the same due to how fun it is to use her with Killer Weapons.

Whoops!

Edited March 22, 2012 by Frostbite

[Shin]

My mentioning of Shin was more of a joke that I'm the greatest man to live more than giving her any credit for recruiting him. See, it's funny because I'm Shin!

[Elieson]

My apologies. I don't care for shin, like the others pparently do. I equate her recruiting Shin kind of like Shiida recruiting Roger. It's just something she does, not worthy of bonus or detriment.