Etrian Odyssey 2 Mafia - Game Over

[Refa]

But why was eclipse more suspicious than myself at that time? I understand that you claim that SB's post made you look more into eclipse, but that doesn't explain why her lack of content (keeping in mind that two of her posts were during RVS, and as such shouldn't be expected to be dripping with insight) was more worth a vote over my vote for Shin.

Are you really asking why Fleur voted someone else over you? Who FYPOV is a confirmed townie? Why?

The only suggested reason as to why it'd be reasonable for a townie to voteswitch during RVS is to gauge reactions. My assumption that townies should discontinue doing this and come clean once they're under suspicion may not constitute a good case by itself, but the fact that Shin decided to reply by spontaneously saying "I'll show you reactionary!" means that he not only deliberately defied this generalization, but decided to try and throw off Refa's observations.

Now, why would you avoid seriously defending yourself in such a position, and not give Refa a good reason to stop suspecting you? Just to get in some more shenanigans? At that point, the "what townies should do" speculation isn't truly speculation anymore.

This is good reasoning. Like I know people who do reaction tests all of the time as town, but the difference is that they come clean when they're called out on it. Even Shin generally.

- eclipse tends to be quiet early during NOC, unless that's changed since I've last played, so it seemed par for the course for her.

- Unfortunately no, I can't. That's why I haven't voted for Fleur yet, because I don't have a strong enough read on her. I don't have anything on her that I haven't stated already. I just feel that's she might be scum. Not very helpful, I know.

- I'm assuming she moved her vote because someone was scummy enough to justify doing so. She said as much in her vote for Fleur.

- I don't think Fleur is buddying with me. Not sure where you got that from. I said she might be buddying with SB.

- Shin's a null read to me. His reaction and OMGUS to my vote was pretty reasonable considering my reason for voting him was wrong.

-I'm just saying that comparing eclipse to inactives is not a very good policy. Generally scum does lurk if they are not under suspicion/a scumbuddy is under suspicion, which is why I think complaining about eclipse's lack of presence is valid (also I remember her being more memorable in past games).

-OK, fair enough.

-But then there were people she was suspicious before. Why did she have to hold her vote on Wen then?

-Oh, my bad on the buddying thing. I think it's been established that I am amazing at reading.

-If you think Shin's vote is an OMGUS, why do you think it's reasonable? OMGUS by definition is bad play, even if town sometime use it.

Responding to everything else in the next post because it's primarily concerned with me and will take a while and I want RD to respond to this ASAP.

[Sunwoo]

No, I think this is important because you contradicted yourself. If you had explicitly stated what you disliked about Refa's point like BigBadMarshmallow had, it would not have pinged me. The posts I quoted showed a switch in stance from "I had non-word-choice arguments" to "So what if my arguments came mainly from word choices?". I did not say your points came "just" from word choices, I said "mainly". You had other reads which I felt were stronger which was why I felt it weird that you'd vote for Refa like that.

Now who's the one who's picking at word choice?

Has it ever crossed your mind that maybe, JUST MAYBE, I can't explain myself the way BBM did (which you apparently like) because I AM NOT BBM? I don't even understand, looking at his post and mine, why his is just SO MUCH BETTER than mine.

You are seriously nitpicking at my own word choices while saying that my "nitpicking" at Refa's word choices pinged you. Why don't you look at the quote that you pulled up?

If you honestly think my case on Refa has no merit because it's "derived mainly from his word choices in his cases" and not "his actions", all I have to say is .

Is it really so hard to understand that Refa's "word choices" COUNT as his actions? That I feel that he is using words to make something seem worse than it really is, and that the act of throwing around pretty terminology to explain his suspicions COUNT as his actions? Like ... I don't even fucking know what to say to you anymore.

See that sentence in quotes that I bolded? It's in quotes because it's YOUR words. Your implications. Not mine. You are voting me for a contradiction that doesn't exist, because I used your words. Second:

3) I feel that Refa is taking Shin's actions, which I didn't see as scummy, and making them out to be the WORST THING EVER.

4) I think this is bad, because Refa is exaggerating what actually happened to make it look like it's the WORST THING EVER. I also think it's scummy when people try to make a big deal out of something that isn't.

3) This point in your case was arrived at from nitpicking Refa's word choices ("refuge" in audacity)

4) Almost the same point as 3) but derived in the same way.

The implications of your response to my points 3 and 4 is that you feel that my conclusions about Refa were derived "just" from nitpicking at his word choices. This is the impression you are giving me of what you think about my case, which is why I responded as such.

Third. It doesn't matter if YOU feel I had other cases that were stronger. You know why? BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT ME AND YOU DO NOT HAVE ACCESS TO MY BRAIN. I think that Refa is the scummiest. The end.

[Refa]

I don't necessarily think Shin is town. I think the cases on him are crap. There is a big difference.

Town doesn't spend all of their time defending a nullread. ;\

This has nothing to with being Grassbridger. I find it suspicious that you're taking such a minor action and using "big words" like "refuge in audacity" to make your case sound like it has more merit than it really does. Also, how is this any different from what he does in RVS in general?

So if I used small words, it'd be less suspicious what is this I don't even.

I did read your exchange with SB, and don't agree with it one bit. Maybe you should not make assumptions about what I am and am not reading.

Your case on Shin is ass. "Making a big deal out of nothing" isn't something that focuses on tone and semantics. I think you're using big words to make nothing look bad.

What does your first point even mean, and what does it even have to do with anything. Green Poet's remark about "what townies should be doing" reeked an awful lot like what Grassbridger said to eclipse once that got on her nerves, "what townie's SHOULD be doing", and voting her because something she had done did not confirm to his thoughts of what a townie should do. Instead of looking at things that townies "should" do, where is the scum intent in what Shin did?

Also, what the fuck do you even mean about Green having eclipse as lynch priority instead of you? What does this have to do with anything? When Green made his post, I felt that his reasons for suspecting eclipse were not well explained enough for me to understand why she was second on his list. What does this have to do with you?

You don't agree with it OK. I guess that invalidates everything said there, it might as well not have happened. If you thought it was bad, maybe you should have said something. You know, that thing town does when they're trying to pressure a scumread?

You're contradicting yourself in the first bolded. Also saying that using big words is suspicious is also awful logic.

How about contributing nothing of actual worth besides make it look like he was active and doing things (I'm referring to when Shin placed his initial vote on me, I just know someone is going to take this out of context and be like oh how could you say Shin has done nothing this whole game)?

I had eclipse second on my lynch priority list at the time too and barely explained it, in fact my entire reasoning was literally sheeping kirsche. Why did you not look into that, sounds like you're primarily concerned with my read on Shin rather than whether or not I'm actually scum.

You know who else came at you? My Mo-... wait!

Refa, you flip flopped quite a lot on what my vote on you actually meant. You then seem to transition to the logic that my RD vote lacked suitable reasoning. However, RD's initial vote on me actually had no reasoning, the justification came later and was incredibly weak. A vote with that little basis clearly warrants being looked at with suspicion. Refa, nobody suggested it was any form of reaction test, you're tunneling me pretty hard, bro. You later accept that RD looks pretty bad, but apparently that's only worth mentioning after people start taking issues with your read on me.

Green doesn't seem to know how I play, serious is boring! Again, the basis of the read is the initial reply to Refa, which I'm struggling to fathom how it can constitute his main read... gasp! It's because there aren't any! Green seems to have spent his entire time agreeing with Refa and focusing on me. Who knew I was so popular?

This duo rather intent on having it out for me, they're after my heart!

RD's back-tracking looked bad, and he literally says nothing about Fleur other than umming and ahing. His retraction of the vote on me seems a little off, but with the evidence presented to him, there's not really much he could have done other than that.

-Fair enough, I'm not going to deny your first point. I still think it's bad, but I can see why others would think it's RVS shenanigans.

-Also already commented on why your vote before and why it sucked. Also you did like the exact same thing the last time you posted (made a vote with no explanation) and RD's vote was barely out of RVS, so I find it hard to believe that you couldn't see someone doing the same thing as town yourself.

Also I don't like his vote on RD. Yes, Shin starting a Refa bandwagon made no sense, but he doesn't even give any actual reasoning as to why RD's scummy. Just that he doesn't like RD's vote on him or something.

##Unvote

##Vote: Shin

Come at me, bro.

-Also the bold is an obvious misrep, lol. I stated I was suspicious of RD in the very post I voted you.

-Rest of this post consists of complaining that someone voted you (same old, same old) and then complaining that RD didn't vote you even though according to you "but with the evidence presented to him, there's not really much he could have done other than that.". OK, Shin. Also self meta is bad.

I didn't feel the need to defend myself because to the vast majority of the game, including myself, the vote on Refa and later RD are pretty reasonable. RD had a hollow vote on me with delayed reasoning, which was later retracted.

Haha, this reasoning is so bad. Firstly noone thought your vote on me was reasonable. It was either "that vote was lame" or "that vote was lame, but Shin always does RVS shenanigans so it's a null tell". Secondly, the need to not defend yourself because you're unlikely to get lynched reeks of scum play. Generally making a defense of yourself helps provide associative reads between you and the person who is suspicious of you should either of you flip down the road.

I'm not saying silliness excuses me at all, but using it as a major piece of evidence doesn't really hold much water.

Referring to the second point (" And I wasn't talking about any reaction test, I was talking about how he responded to that same point."), not the RVS post. I concede that may have been a joke (already stated my thoughts on it), that's not really the main reason I'm voting Shin.

Nice try, Shin.

With the agreeing with Refa, I mean the RD vote specifically about him suspecting me rather than the Flan thing too. It was there where he seemed rather unsure. Plus, my RD vote would have to come first for you two to consider me scummy for the RD vote! Dat chain of events! Scum tend to follow up with their buddies' ideas, it's kinda how they get people mislynched, and you two seem to be coordinating it pretty well.

The land which is known as Shin's bed calls! I'll try and say something deep and profound in the morning!

I know you've played a scum game with SB where he specifically he said he was going to bus you, so I'm calling BS on this as well. Scum aren't always going to agree with each other, especially on D1 when there'd be a whole slew of mislynch candidates.

I DID explicitly state what I don't agree about Refa's posts, please go back and read my post. I think his (and Green's) cases on Shin are shit because I feel that there is no merit to their suspicions and they're making a big deal about nothing. End of story.

As for Shinori using "gut reads", note something important about his posts. He's not voting Refa or SB on the basis of "gut reads". Refa, on the other hand, is voting Shin and trying to use "Semi-Precious vibes" as one justification for his vote.

On scum intent, please realize that townies do not play perfectly nor do all scum play obviously scummily. Sometimes, you will have to think about whether a townie's "less than ideal" action had scum intent or not. Like Strege, from the most recent game, Inception mafia, who shot a null read over his scum reads on the basis that he could push his scum reads during the day, and he thought scum would vote park on the guy he shot in later phases. It was a terrible shot, but Strege flipped town. If actual townies had looked for the scum intent in his posts, they would've found none. (And kirsche, you and I were scum in that game so what we think doesn't really count for this example.)

-OK, so Boron thinks my case is bad. Make note of this.

-Yes, I used a meta read as part of the justification of my vote. Again, more complaining about word choice than content. I'm sorry, I didn't know that only scum got vibes, because I've seen town do it as well.

-I'm not voting for Shin because he made bad night actions, so this example is irrelevant. His actual play is scummy.

-Also I like how Shin can be town playing poorly but oh no, not me, I must be scum! OK, Boron.

3) I feel that Refa is taking Shin's actions, which I didn't see as scummy, and making them out to be the WORST THING EVER.

4) I think this is bad, because Refa is exaggerating what actually happened to make it look like it's the WORST THING EVER. I also think it's scummy when people try to make a big deal out of something that isn't.

I'd like for you to quote where I made out Shin's actions to be the worst thing ever and why that's scummy. Generally town is more invested in their reads, while scum can be all "oh well, I'll just switch to someone who isn't my scumbuddy" so I find your reasoning rather flawed here.

I realized I'd been skimming Refa's Shin case because everyone is posting so many words, and on first glance, I kind of have to agree with Boron. This is Refa's initial justification for the Shin vote:

"Shin's vote is a bad vote because it feels like a refuge in audacity (thanks Prims, I'll never get that trope out of my head now...). I call him out on being reactionary, so he responds by making an obviously reactionary vote on me. There's no way scum would be so obvious...right? Also his RVS shenanigans are giving me Semi-Precious vibes."

His reasoning is basically that Shin was WIFOMing by doing something that's very obviously "scummy". But why is he WIFOMing? What suggests that it's WIFOM rather than just a joke that's null of alignment? And the SP vibes thing is just out of nowhere and he elaborates on it as Shin doing sillier things in RVS as scum but I'm pretty sure Shin is just always silly in RVS. And I looked through the rest of Refa's ISO and... that's literally the majority of it. He says that he talked about why Shin's RD vote was bad, but all Refa says is that his own reasoning for finding RD scummy is different from Shin's justification. That's well and good, but that doesn't make Shin's vote weak by itself.

What also pings me is that Boron isn't defending Shin- she's attacking Refa's case on Shin, which is maybe chainsaw defence, but certainly not the white-knighting that Refa is implying, and the way it's worded seems like Refa is trying to twist it back onto Boron, which I don't like either.

Will get to some other posts after dinner.

-Yes, that was part of my initial justification. Not the whole thing. I also mentioned that his vote on RD was bad and he hadn't really contributed much else. ----OK, prove me wrong. Show me a game where Shin has deliberately done anti-town things as scum and I'll concede the point.

-Already said why Shin's vote is weak.

-I don't think what Boron's doing can be construed as a chainsaw defense. She's pretty obviously defending Shin, and it's bad because Shin is a null read.

-Quote me where you think I'm trying to twist her words back.

Hmm, yeah, I think I like this better: ##Unvote, ##Vote: Refa.

Still not sure about RD though. His SB vote feels weak. SB has made so many posts and RD's entire case is off a contradiction between two of them and supposed buddying between SB and Fleur. If RD really had conviction in the contradiction he found, I feel like he would be trying to bolster it through an analysis of SB's other posts, which he isn't. And the "buddying" is one-sided and on Fleur's side. If Fleur abruptly dropping her case on RD to wagon Eclipse with SB is so bad, then why isn't he voting Fleur instead of SB? After all, scum can also wagon people with other townies. It's the person that's wagoning that's scum more often than the person who actually started the wagon.

-Agree with your read on RD. Seems wierd that he's just nitpicking at a certain aspect of SB's posts without looking at the whole thing.

-Don't agree with your final point. It doesn't even gel with your current vote on me, considering I'm the one who has the "first" vote on Shin at present, and all suspicions of him are based on my own thoughts.

[Refa]

Also probably not going to make any more points about this specific case (well, maybe if Shin says something that changes my mind about him being scum) because it's too stressful for me, and at this point is not really going to say anything that hasn't already been said. Probably going to give my thoughts on the playerbase at some point, these super long points have taken way too much out of me.

[Refa]

Also I like how the only meta reads here have been towards saying Shin does silly stuff in general as either alignment but noone actually has made a meta read on me. Probably because I'm not playing to my scum meta!

[FleurDeGlace]

I just got home Will turn on my computer and pump out full detail posts soon.

Before that though:

@Sangyul: If you are getting angry and agitated, I suggest you take a momentary break from the game and come back to it again later. Emotion is a null tell and messes up any reads on you if it is used explicitly throughout your posts. I don't know how you normally are but I took your comment about me angering you when I stated my points as a threat for you to get angry if I do not see things your way. If that is not your intention, I apologise for that sincerely. I do not want to deal with anger or raging outbursts in a game that is a ready intense enough without this happening.

No one is going to agree with you all the time and you're bound to get criticised in mafia so it's irritating if someone flares up just because others do not agree with him or her.

[FleurDeGlace]

On my computer now.

Going to wrap up my exchange with Sangyul (and close it once and for all) and then proceed to reread the thread again. I feel that a lot has happened already for a reanalysis of the game. Especially now that I am back home and free again to spend time solely on the game.

[Sunwoo]

Town doesn't spend all of their time defending a nullread. ;\

I'm not defending Shin. I'm attacking you for having a crap case. There is a difference, which you are not seeing, either willfully or because you don't actually see it.

1) I think Shin is a null read

2) I think your case is terrible

3) Thinking that someone's case on someone else is terrible doesn't necessarily mean you're defending "someone else." It means that I think "someone" has a terrible case to begin with and that their logic is scummy.

So if I used small words, it'd be less suspicious what is this I don't even.

Stop being fastidious, you know that's nowhere near what I meant. I feel that you're using mafia lingo to make it sound like there's more to your case when there isn't, to make Shin's actions looks worse than they were. No, I wouldn't be less suspicious of you if you didn't use mafia lingo because the basis of your suspicion is really bad to me.

You don't agree with it OK. I guess that invalidates everything said there, it might as well not have happened. If you thought it was bad, maybe you should have said something. You know, that thing town does when they're trying to pressure a scumread?

Let's look at the time stamps of when the post in question and stuff before that happened. Unless you expect me to mafia in my sleep, I couldn't have said something immediately when it was posted. Second, I said that "I don't think Shin's RD vote was without explanation, nor do I find it bad". Is that not enough to tell you "I disagree with your reasoning"? In other words, saying something?

You're contradicting yourself in the first bolded. Also saying that using big words is suspicious is also awful logic.

So that apparent contradiction invalidates my entire case and means that absolutely nothing is without merit and you are fucking perfect, is that what you're saying? Saying you're making a big deal of nothing doesn't Also, if you're only focusing on me saying "big words" without actually reading into anything else you're seriously not paying attention.

How about contributing nothing of actual worth besides make it look like he was active and doing things (I'm referring to when Shin placed his initial vote on me, I just know someone is going to take this out of context and be like oh how could you say Shin has done nothing this whole game)?

Then why was this not brought up back then? Your vote on Shin seems to be entirely based on his vote patterns and not "contributing nothing of worth". Where was this point in your original case, and why didn't you make a bigger deal of it? And what is the difference between Shin not doing anything and others doing the same?

I had eclipse second on my lynch priority list at the time too and barely explained it, in fact my entire reasoning was literally sheeping kirsche. Why did you not look into that, sounds like you're primarily concerned with my read on Shin rather than whether or not I'm actually scum.

Guess I must have missed that part of the post somehow then. Wall less dammit.

-OK, so Boron thinks my case is bad. Make note of this.

-Yes, I used a meta read as part of the justification of my vote. Again, more complaining about word choice than content. I'm sorry, I didn't know that only scum got vibes, because I've seen town do it as well.

-I'm not voting for Shin because he made bad night actions, so this example is irrelevant. His actual play is scummy.

-Also I like how Shin can be town playing poorly but oh no, not me, I must be scum! OK, Boron.

You used "vibes" as a justification with no explanation. I find that behavior scummy. Having vibes in itself isn't scummy. Using it as a justification without explaining further on that note is scummy.

No one had night actions to begin with.

And you're putting words in my mouth with this last statement, which IS scummy. I don't find Shin doing anything scummy. I think you are scummy. Which is why I think you are scum.

Would totally annihilate Refa and Fleur.

[BBM]

I didn't word myself well. When I was talking about wagons, I was talking more about two people voting the same person in close succession. The second is more likely to be scum than the first. But that situation doesn't apply to you because you're not one of two people and also isn't ironclad.

Also, state again for me why Shin's RD vote was weak. What you said about Shin's RD vote was "this isn't why I found RD scummy" and then went into an explanation of what made RD suspicious. Shin's vote being different from your's doesn't make it bad. And I think Shin suggested an RVS policy lynch in Healer? It was a joke, but so was what he did here, and honestly your entire case just seems like a bad initial vote followed by reasons to try and keep it on Shin.

I don't think you're trying to twist her words; I think you're trying to twist the suspicion back onto her by saying that she's suspicious for defending Shin when that's not what she's doing. Like, do you think I'm defending Shin right now?

[Grace]

Sangyul has requested a permanent sub. First to contact me via PM gets the spot.

Also requesting a touch more civility in general. I don't want to have to modkill/forcesub players for bad conduct.

[FleurDeGlace]

Undo huge post that I had already had typed out halfway due to Sangyul requesting a sub.

Going straight to rereading the thread now.

[FleurDeGlace]

Do not like how Sangyul requested for a sub after being put under pressure by Refa and I but I am going to stop here with this point.

[Radiant Dragon]

Are you really asking why Fleur voted someone else over you? Who FYPOV is a confirmed townie? Why?

-I'm just saying that comparing eclipse to inactives is not a very good policy. Generally scum does lurk if they are not under suspicion/a scumbuddy is under suspicion, which is why I think complaining about eclipse's lack of presence is valid (also I remember her being more memorable in past games).

-But then there were people she was suspicious before. Why did she have to hold her vote on Wen then?

-If you think Shin's vote is an OMGUS, why do you think it's reasonable? OMGUS by definition is bad play, even if town sometime use it.

Is this really a question? Isn't it obvious I am not a confirmed townie to Fleur?

- Fair enough. I just didn't think it was as strong of a case as my mistaken vote on Shin.

- I'm not eclipse, so I can't speak for her. If I had to make a guess, I'd say that her vote on Wen was just an attempt to force him to post, and she wasn't suspicious enough of her reads to remove that pressure.

- Misuse of terminology on my part. I simply meant to say that I thought it was reasonable for Shin to vote for me in response to my vote for him in that situation.

I haven't had a whole lot of time to follow the game today, so I've just been responding to the comments directed at me. I'll try and catch up on the last couple of pages tomorrow afternoon, and I'll be changing my vote then also.

[Wen Yang]

Ok, Haven't played for a good while, and definitely out of touch with most of the current peeps here...

Lemme catch up with the 9 pages or so you guys posted while I was asleep/at work yesterday and today...

[Wen Yang]

Okay... Hefty argument already ongoing on day 1, nothing unusual...

Vote-flinging... nothing unusual either...

I haven't played for so long that so I don't trust myself to "analyze" things at this point, just gonna go with gut feelings, since a lynch on day 1, even misdirected, is better than a NL.

Vote: Radiant Dragon

[FleurDeGlace]

Fleur seems a little suspicious to me. She's being a bit too defensive, seems to be jumping around agreeing with what others have said and I don't like her repeated posting of her 'scum reads'. However, her moving off of the larger RD bandwagon for the smaller eclipse one seems odd for scum. I don't think people's reads on eclipse are particularly justified (I'm getting a null read on eclipse at the moment), but effort points.

Radiant Dragon, I want to question you on why you referred to the bandwagon on you in third party.

I noticed this and when I ISOed the rest of your posts, you referred to any votes on you as "votes on me" or "voting me" or words to that extent. That makes the reference here weird to me and compels me to wonder if this was not typed or thought out by yourself.

[FleurDeGlace]

Fleur seems a little suspicious to me. She's being a bit too defensive, seems to be jumping around agreeing with what others have said and I don't like her repeated posting of her 'scum reads'. However, her moving off of the larger RD bandwagon for the smaller eclipse one seems odd for scum. I don't think people's reads on eclipse are particularly justified (I'm getting a null read on eclipse at the moment), but effort points.

Radiant Dragon, I want to question you on why you referred to the bandwagon on you in third party.

I noticed this and when I ISOed the rest of your posts, you referred to any votes on you as "votes on me" or "voting me" or words to that extent. That makes the reference here weird to me and compels me to wonder if this was not typed or thought out by yourself.

EBWOP.

Didn't know that size 3 was the default forum text size.

[FleurDeGlace]

Okay... Hefty argument already ongoing on day 1, nothing unusual...

Vote-flinging... nothing unusual either...

I haven't played for so long that so I don't trust myself to "analyze" things at this point, just gonna go with gut feelings, since a lynch on day 1, even misdirected, is better than a NL.

Vote: Radiant Dragon

Kopfjager's vote is bad. Seems like an RVS or heavily unsupported vote made right in the middle of the day. No actual conclusion to whether he's town or scum to me yet though although I don't like the fact that he's using a gut feeling to vote right after he mentioned that he would catch up on the nine pages.

I don't think I like a misdirected lynch if I can help it. I want to lynch scum over town at all times of the game. Although a no lynch on day 1 does provide a huge lack of information. However, given the amount of discussion in the game already, I think that we can actually arrive at a good enough conclusion for a lynch on a scummy player.

[charlie_]

RD, if Fleur is suspicious for buddying me (one sidedly) why is your vote still on me for it? Mafia/Town buddying has happened before and I haven't buddied with Fleur at all. I'm not sure why your vote is still down on me when you've said pretty much nothing about me aside from that for a while now. Its not like I haven't been posting.

I don't think chainsaw defense is actually a legit scumtell, I've done it before as town plenty of times . Neither is wagoning 90% of the time, without it we would never get a lynch.

Kopfjager's post was bad, even if D1 can be a crapshoot refusing to make a case just makes it even more problematic.

[Grace]

Bluedoom replaces Flan temporarily, effective immediately.

There are 35 hours, 32 minutes left in the phase.

Edited February 11, 2014 by Curly Brace

[Shin]

Can't say much because technically at work, but Kopf's post is lazy, he clearly hasn't read anything. Not that it's a scum tell, but he's amongst the ranks of scorri and Eli and although I can appreciate there are reasons for their inactivity, I think it's impossible to really get anything. Kopf, is there anyone you even vaguely suspect or have any opinion about? Gut feelings are all well and good, but that squishy grey thing in your head should have something to say!

Dat colonel is clearly after my secret sauce. I'm not sure what to make of Boron's defense on me, but it's nice to see someone who actually thinks I'm not like satan's evil half twin step-brother with an eyepatch!

Refa, you were somewhat vague with your point on RD initially, you said he was in a similar position to me, and you call him lazy when you action vote for me. It's only when questioned you actually say you think he's scummy. Nice try bro! The logic that I'm voting because I dislike the vote on me doesn't quite get trumped by the vote on me for voting somebody who made a lame vote on me. You're more flip-flop than some fat guy in a Hawaiian shirt.

The fact that Green seems to be backing you because... uh, Shin's cray cray? I'm really seeing a lack of input from Green. Looking back he's never really gone into much detail about why he's voting me, and he seems rather unwilling to even follow any other cases. There's a little bit on eclipse but that doesn't really go anywhere. All about the Shin express!

[Prims]

:Kappa: spectating / not playing :Kappa:

words

i was going to ask why your posts and avatar sound like a mancernecro alt and then i found out that apparently he was randomly online like a week ago

Wtf

:Kappa: spectating / not playing :Kappa:

Edited February 11, 2014 by Prims

[Grace]

bearclaw replaces Sangyul, effective immediately.

[Da Bear]

I've been skimming the thread so far so I'll do a more in-depth read and hopefully do stuff soon.

[Green Poet]

The fact that Green seems to be backing you because... uh, Shin's cray cray? I'm really seeing a lack of input from Green. Looking back he's never really gone into much detail about why he's voting me, and he seems rather unwilling to even follow any other cases. There's a little bit on eclipse but that doesn't really go anywhere. All about the Shin express!

That's a rather convenient dismissal. The defense of your most recent post is the same as the last one, that I'm blindly following cases against yourself and eclipse. I've addressed both of these concerns, and a "that doesn't really go anywhere" response doesn't prompt me to attempt to explain again.

Sort of suspicious about Kopfjager right now. It's entirely possible that, and understandable if, he simply hasn't been able to commit much time to the game. But his inactivity is still scummy, and his rather random RD vote doesn't convince me yet.

That being said, I think I'm going to

##Unvote

##Vote: eclipse

Perhaps my perception of eclipse's meta isn't accurate, but judging from the fact that she's an SF mod, I would reason that she's more inherently much more likely than Kopfjager to post. That, and her "I won't post until the rest of you contribute" disclaimer seems like a convenient excuse for scum to lurk.

I'd like to maximize the chance that one of my scumreads is lynched D1, and I feel that this would be much more likely to happen wrt eclipse rather than Shin. Still not abandoning my Shin case, though, as much as he repeats that it's insubstantial.