Rewjeo

I'm also going to say FE5. While it did pull some stupid stuff (whyyy 99 hit healing) I thought it did a much better job of giving you interesting challenges than recent games. Things like map design, money, fatigue, and even dismounting created a very entertaining challenge.

Mind you, Sakurai didn't use those words, if I'm thinking of the same video. A translator used those words. We'd have to see Sakurai's own words to be sure.

8/10 Again, my understanding is that I'm allowed to take into account spotpass shops, which means that Anna has all the Levin Swords she could ever want. That makes her a solid staffbot (although not having Physic to start is unfortunate), your best thief, and a solid combatant. Lucky 7 and Acrobat are both pretty nice skills for the main game, too. Her lack of support partners does lead to her falling off at times, but the game gives you an odd number of deployment slots often enough that you'll have someone unpaired, anyways, and she is actually a good choice for Tiki since Tiki's potential partners are going to either not be in play or already be paired up outside of Anna. +1 MOV for Tiki is also nice, so Anna comes back pretty well lategame. Her deployment is questionable at times midgame, but Anna can actually afford that since pair up/thief/staff utility is always there for her to fall back on, even if she does fall behind on the offensive end of things, and her durability is always pretty meh. Add +1 bias onto that, because Anna entertains me. Cut a point out if we aren't counting spotpass shops.

I don't think DLC Marth really counts as "in the game." I mean, you could justify Eldigan or even Booey representing FE13 with that logic. He still represents the series, but not FE13 in particular.

Here's a progression of armor knights from FE5 to FE13: http://serenesforest.net/media/fe5illust/l/dalsin.jpg http://serenesforest.net/media/fe7illust/s/osin.png http://serenesforest.net/media/fe10illust/e/gatrie_en.png http://serenesforest.net/media/fe11illust/l/horace.png http://serenesforest.net/fe13/img/site/chara07.jpg Yup, no more ridiculous than previous FEs :/

The thing is that Avatar burns like 80% of the world's ships, discounting whatever is going on in Jugdral during Awakening.

Libra's pretty nifty for a little while. C staves is nice, and his combat is good. Unfortunately, he kinda drops off the world eventually since his combat tanks pretty fast and his healing, for one thing, can be replaced and, for another, healing stops being particularly valuable in this game. Still, being pretty cool with physic and axes for a while is, well, pretty cool. 6.5/10

Since Anna actually supports Tiki, I've used her all-game before with no problems, although without deploying her every chapter midgame. She does need access to spotpass Levin Swords or for you to get stupidly lucky with Anna shops, though, for her offense to keep up.

Wat. Avatar can be married by like chapter 8 or earlier, and pairs between early joining characters are stupidly easy to get done before the time skip while playing efficiently. Heck, on my first run I did Fred/Panne because of how my team was working out, and I had that done shortly after the time skip. That's a support rank roughly every other chapter, although I of course dawdled some and tried out spotpass/skirmishes and such as it was my first time through the game. As for the kids, they are hardly "decent" once trained up while your regular units are "demigods." I agree that the children typically aren't worth using, but that's because of their start, not their finish. The kids should end up better than their parents. The problem is the whole "I'm 20 levels behind the rest of your team!" thing.

Early on, FE was kind of Greek/Roman themed at times, IIRC. It has been a long time since I've played anything from before Jugdral, though.

I, personally, wouldn't object to lower growths, but I'm guessing the high growths were a very conscious choice. It feels better to constantly see 4-5 stats go up a level than to see 1-2, and so IS probably put them in on purpose to make people like the game more, thus boosting ratings and sales.

The point wasn't that the review was good, but that it made some good points. Personally, I'm inclined to agree. For all the things this game did right, I don't find it aesthetically pleasing, the villains are quite possibly the worst in the series, the characters are painfully one-dimensional, the map design is atrocious at times (let's just put a spattering of enemies over there, maybe another clump here), the plot in general is uninteresting and the main characters are bland, and pair-up (at least below Lunatic) does kind of break the game. I wouldn't give it a 3/10 - it's not bad, but I would say it's pretty much in the middle of the pack as far as FE games go.

A: 13 spd before the dragonstone? Even if that's with a dragonstone(+), 13 spd+tonic+rally spectrum already puts her at 19 SPD, so a +2 SPD pairup should stop her from being doubled by anything, since Tiki's 30 SPD doubles everything. B: If Nowi was 2HKOd with the same DEF as Tiki, then Tiki was no better than 3RKOd, which still isn't very impressive and sounds worse than I remember... Edit: In any case, my problem is more with people being all "wahhh bad bases 1/10" when Donnel pulled out 1.78 average despite needing something like a Fred pairup to not be ORKOd.

Seeing as a 50% growth is the most likely to be blessed/screwed, I can believe the being doubled thing, but with 120% in HP and 65% (or thereabouts) in DEF, her being ORKOd sounds like terrible, terrible luck. At level ~20 (which would be sandbagging her, most likely), she should have ~40 HP and ~26 DEF, assuming that she isn't paired up. Tiki has 44 HP and 30 DEF, so Tiki should be 2-3RKOd if an average Nowi is 2HKOd. Also, Nowi has 15-16 SPD at level 20 (again, without a pairup) while Tiki has 23. Since Tiki doubles everything upon joining but Walhart with a Say'ri pairup, and there is only a 7-8 point gap in their SPD values on average, Nowi should be doubled by nothing except maybe Walhart with a speed boosting pairup. I don't have enemy stats on hand, so i can't say for sure how they do, but Now *shoudln't* be doubled and certainly should not be 2HKOd, even if she is underleveled.

You have to buy her a tonic and then spend two whole chapters and even give her a pair up partner before she becomes invincible and fairly quickly proceeds to double most enemies and ORKO everything. 1/10. It would be like an 8, but it takes a tonic and two whole chapters to get her up to speed! That's clearly .78 points worse than Donnel who needs every tonic ever and the best pair up partner available and forges and a second seal ASAP and also 1.62 points worse than Virion who also needs tonics to not suck when he does manage to attack and also would like forges and also needs a second seal ASAP. Wait, no, that's not right... 6 MOV is cool, minimal investment for a unit who can tank anything with 6 MOV and permanent 1-2 range is nice. Invincibility is unnecessary, and eventually everyone will end up invincible anyways because this is HM, but she absolutely has her uses, making her decidedly above average. 6.5/10, and I'll add +1 bias onto that because people are being ridiculously hyperbolic with their scores in this thread. Edit: And why is this the first time I've seen minmaxing be a major part of a rating? I mean, I'm not inherently opposed to it, but it seems kind of fishy for it to appear during this whole thing... looking forward to getting past Nowi.

what is this Anyways, Nowi really, really is not that hard to train unless you're blitzing the entire game, which you really seem to be unable to grasp is not the only condition under which units can be discussed. You keep saying things about how bad she is and how useless she is once she's trained up because she doesn't help you 1-2 turn boss rush chapters without realizing that most people don't do that. Yeah, yeah, I know you have talked about yourself playing casually and whatever, but every time Nowi gets brought up, even in the tier list thread which is clearly not an ltc tier list you talk about how she doesn't help with that. If you're, say, playing efficiency with the intent to recruit all (nonchildren) characters, all you have to do to train her is dump her in front of some reinforcements for a chapter or two after she joins, and then she's good to go. Add in spotpass/renown, and you can even buy her a dragonstone+ to help.

And, on top of that, it's worth pointing out that there are maps in that wikipedia thing (don't remember which ones) where you have weird things going on like Sardinia being attached to Italy or Scandinavia being islands, not to mention one super weird one where Japan looked an awful lot like Iceland does on modern maps, or that one where India appeared to be an island. Then geological activity (earthquake, tsunami, volcano) could explain that last island's change.

If we assume that the maps are how the people view their world, not how it actually looks, then lowering sea levels and changes in how people mapped the continents accounts for everything other than the southeaster Valentian/Valmese island, which would require water levels to rise.

Because almost no one here is ranking off of LTC? I agree that Panne is worse than Avatar, but not much if you aren't going for the absolute minimum turncounts. She turns into a flying death-god, while in my experience Avatar likes keeping tomes, which keeps him/her on foot for a while. Olwen/Chiki/Aeine's (or however many vowels there are) vote isn't a troll vote. It's based on a legitimate playstyle, and he's giving nearly everyone bad scores, anyways. I would count it, were I in charge. bearclaw's ranking I wouldn't, since it's based on her not being able to get a second seal and also not being as durable as your team. The first is just silly, and the second is flat-out wrong.

Who do you have that's more durable than Wyvern!Panne and also ORKOs consistently? Avatar, Frederick, and Fred!Sumia? She has 33 HP/14 DEF. Is Chrom level 18? Is Stahl level 15? Vaike 17? Heck, even Fred!Sumia needs to be in the teens to match Panne's durability, and even a level 20 Avatar is only pulling an advantage defensively if you go with a +HP or +DEF Avatar. One that gets a bonus to STR/MAG/SPD is *slightly* below Panne's durability on average. Sure, 2 RES is pretty bad, but given her HP and tonics and pairups and talismans, she isn't really doing too badly compared to your other physical attackers.

Pretty much what's been said above. If you can have Panne fly anywhere with 10 MOV (or more with the right pairups/boots) and kill everything with a hand axe, why would you leave her with 6 MOV, worse stats, and the inability to counter an awful lot of enemies?

Wyvern!Panne is easy to get and just so hilariously good. She hardly even cares about E axes because she will almost never actually need anything stronger than an iron axe. I've even seen her OHKO enemies with a bronze axe. Her defenses are strong enough that she won't really care about bows all that much (until enemies start packing forged silver...) and the right pairups can fix that, not to mention the gazillion statboosters you get in this game. One of personal favorites is pairing her up with a GK for the massive STR/DEF boosts (thus the OHKOing with bronze, and it makes her nigh invincible against physical enemies) and the possibility for 11 or even 13 MOV, which is the highest you can reasonably get before postgame. Since apparently I can use Anna Shops and Renown awards for these, I'll give her a 9.5. The opportunity cost for her using a second seal is almost nonexistent (oh no now ill only have 80000 gold at the end of the game instead of 82500) and her only real negative is that she doesn't exist the whole time like Avatar does. Add on bias because the possibility for OHKOing with a ladle is pretty lulzy for a 10/10. If I actually can't take Anna Shops/Renown into consideration, drop the unbiased one down to a 9.

I don't really like either, but Elt(o)shan is the name I know the character by, so that's my preference between the two.

He has bad stats and only D swords when he shows up, so training him is kind of a pain. Probably worst for him, though, is that his major selling point (I'm a thief) gets totally obsoleted after he opens about one chest by Anna, who is far, far better at combat (and if we're allowed to buy her Levin Swords via spotpass teams for these ratings, she's a solid combatant the whole game) and can heal and also has 7 MOV to his 5. He is a solid pair up partner, though, and a potentially good combatant without too much effort, so I'll give him a 5.5/10. Edit: What is the stance on Anna shops/Spotpass shops/Renown Awards? That could make a big difference for some units, like Anna as I mentioned above, and I'm sure having a bunch of Second Seals would benefit some people who no longer have to fight with Panne over the first one.

But that doesn't necessarily help you come to an actual conclusion. In any case, I would say being underdeveloped is more a symptom of being a Mary Sue than a defining trait.