Rewjeo

Okay, so Syrene is no longer in bottom. I think she could still go higher, but that at least is out of the way. And, well... [spoiler=Changelog] June 4, 2011: Colm out of Top June 20/21, 2011: Syrene from top of Bottom to bottom of Low [spoiler=Current Discussions] Franz in his own tier? Eph. Ephraim, Eph. Duessel, Vanessa in Top Tier w/ Franz? Neimi<Knoll, Rennac, L'arachel Lute+Artur Down Giliam Down Garcia<Eir. Cormag, Duessel Tana up Joshua up Eph. Gerik<Kyle, Forde Eir. Innes>Ephraim Syrene up Colm far down Whether the boots are better used on a 6 MOV unit or an 8 MOV unit... Two things in the changelog. Twelve in the current discussions. Can we at least settle a discussion before moving on to the next one? Going down the list... Top tier shit: Don't wanna touch right now. Neimi<Knoll, Rennac, L'arachel: Works for me. Lute+Artur Down: Since I brought this up, well, I agree. Where to, though? I haven't thought all that much about it Giliam Down: Everyone seems to agree. Where do people want him to go? Garcia<Eir. Cormag, Duessel: I don't have an opinion on this right now. Tana up: Makes sense to me. Joshua up: This too. Eph. Gerik<Kyle, Forde: I concur Eir. Innes>Ephraim: No opinion here. Syrene up: I still say she needs to go up higher. Colm far down: Needs to happen. Whether the boots are better used on a 6 MOV unit or an 8 MOV unit...: Who gives a flying rat's ankle right now? ignore my post just before this one

So, basically turncounts are just as objective as any other option. We're arbitrarily choosing the criteria in any situation, and from there you assess it objectively (by dealing with facts (stats, availability, etc.) without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations.) Unit A saves X turns, Unit B saves X-2 turns. Unit A>Unit B. Unit A has 5 chapters of availability. Unit B by has 7. Unit B>Unit A. In both cases, you're assessing the value of units objectively under an arbitrary set of rules. So we come up with a way to do it, since there seems to be either no objective way to do it or many objective ways between which we must subjectively choose. You can run into the same problem anywhere. For example, FE7 Availability tier list: who's better, Kent or Sain? How many 10000g forges are we making? IIRC, we have more than four stat boosters in FE7. Honestly, this just strengthens my point. We're giving someone a few statboosters to get more good units. So that we have more good units!

I don't see how these are more objective. The order of the tier list would just be obvious and the only discussion would be where to have the tier gaps. If they reduce turns by the same amount, how do they not all reduce turns by the same amount? Now if only we HAD 10000g to spend on one weapon and didn't give a shit if we toss someone half the stat boosters. Except it's more efficient to, you know, distribute those stat boosters among a bunch of people and get a lot of very good people. This is an issue. Also, I think another reason there is less discussion is because the two newest games have tier lists for only the hardest modes.... in the series. As more units become necessary and more units become unusable, there's less and less to discuss.

Mind you, depending on our team, we might have so many 8 MOV units already that a 10 MOV unit is more helpful than yet another 8 MOV unit. It's not all that inconceivable, either. Franz, Kyle, Forde, Seth, Cormag, Tana/Vanessa, and then 7 MOV units with the lords. Then Syrene shows up. That's 6-7 8 MOV units, and, with the exception of Tana/Vanessa and maybe Syrene, they're all very likely to be in use.

THAT IS NO EXCUSE Even if those games sound like fun right now....

Never mind that.... The way Cynthia worded it, it sounded like Rennac had 5 more luck, and didn't have luck in those stats. Well, it did to me when I first read it. I don't really know how I read it that way now...

Uh, 3 HP, .5 STR, and 15 CRIT isn't that awesome. Especially when he has 2 DEF and 6 RES putting his durability higher, and the better luck, as you pointed out, can prevent random crits, putting his durability even higher up. And mind you, Rennac shows up for free. Marisa has to suck for three chapters in which we feed her kills, slowing us down more, and then we have to use a Hero Crest on her. Now, after that investment of EXP, turns, and a Hero Crest, we have Rennac with marginally better offense, worse defense, and no thief utility. Are you telling me that doesn't deserve a tier gap? Because it's not like Marisa "can only get as many hits as long as the chapter takes us and [is] difficult to feed kills." Oh, wait. She still may not (I'd say probably not) be able to actually contribute. The way bottom tier seems to work (with the exception of Syrene, who really should move out of it. Any objections?) is that they're all worthless when the join, and if you put resources into them, they still fail to contribute anything. Marisa may have better stats than them, but her stats are still really, really awful.

I disagree about graphics and music not mattering. They are lower priority than gameplay, yes, but of the four things you mentioned, I would say that gameplay is most important followed by music, then either graphics or fanservice (depending on what kind of fanservice...)

I, personally, enjoy all three pretty equally.

I wasn't saying that that poll should influence sales. I'm saying that a series that can beat those kinds of games should not be ignored. And if Nintendo doesn't care about stuff like that, then I'll tell them what I think with something they actually care about- my money. Don't like what a company is doing, don't give 'em your money.

Can I just point out that on that poll on GameFAQS, FE beat Kirby, F-Zero, Paper Mario, and Super Mario. I'm holding onto hope if only because it would be retarded of Nintendo to not localize a game that beat some very popular series (TWO MARIO SERIES) in a poll on a site that, I would assume but I'm not sure, has a rather wide group of gamers. And if it doesn't get officially localized, there are ways around that. You can always speak to the companies with your money, too.

I disagree, and there are examples that go against this, like Aran's luck, although in this case it's the opposite. A single digit crit can, in this case, force a restart. Will it happen that often? No. Do we take it into consideration? Yes. So take someone like, say, earlygame Eirika. She can speed stuff up with lucky crits, and that's a point for her. We won't (can't) rely on them for strategies, so they don't get as much weight as something that is 100% but you can't ignore a unit's ability to sometimes speed things up. Now, this is different from a 2% crit chance which really should be ignored.

I wouldn't say you won only because of the time. They lost nearly 7x as many troops as you, making for them losing about a third of their troops to about a sixth of yours.

I feel like the stages have gotten worse as the series has gone on. SSB's stages are still my favorite.

A: It doesn't seem obvious yet to me. B: Because "let's work on translating 40+ chapters and over 300 base conversations/supports so that a professional version can be done anyways" sure sounds like fun, huh? Especially given how long I'd imagine that would take, it would have required them to start quite a while ago, well before so many people had given up hope.

I'd argue there's a much bigger gap between Marisa and Syrene than Marisa and Ewan. At least Eph. Marisa.

These have been brought up, I think, but no one has discussed exactly where they should go. Rennac has, like, desert items to his name, though, and really nothing else. Knoll is already at the top of Low. Do you think he could go higher? Now, admittedly most of the arguments were regarding whether or not he could get a promotion, and at this point it's pretty well established that he will, I think. Ephraim's route he can get one of the 293472983479238 Guiding Rings, and on Eirika's he can grab the Master Seal immediately. I think it has been basically decided that Neimi needs to go to low. They start basically the same, but Ross gets as much experience for a hit as she does for a kill. Edit: Not to mention having an enemy phase much sooner and having 1-2 range options and doing more damage on EP. Her combat is still utter garbage compared to theirs (IIRC she like 5HKOs a lot of stuff unless she uses a sword heavy enough to stop her from doubling) and she has no way to work around her terrible durability. Amelia can chip with a javelin (terribly, but she can) and Ewan is designed to chip from range. And then her growths don't really help, either. 30 for STR and 15 for DEF means that she forever has bad defenses and bad offense. IIRC, RFoF showed once that Marisa is 4HKOing even by chapter 15. So we have a unit who isn't mounted, has bad offense with no ranged options, and isn't durable. We can feed her high quality weapons, I guess, but that's expensive at the rate she could go through them. Well, him>Gilliam is pretty well established. Gilliam should drop a lot, but where to? I could see him over Eir.Innes, myself, but I don't know about Eph.Eirika. She is also contributing a ton earlygame, and is then forced lategame with a PRF weapon that is effective against monsters and a horse.

Unless I'm blind, no one answered your question about Sedgar and Wolf: they suck and are a pain to recruit.

Take a team consisting of units in "Free Silvers" (what it was last time I checked) in FE12 Lunatic Reverse. Are you likely to beat the game? A tier list does not assume that this is someone's first time ever playing FE. If they choose the team, they know it sucks. Either they don't choose sucky teams or they do. You don't randomly switch. Yes, logically you WOULD switch, but then, logically you wouldn't have chosen anything less than the optimal team in the first place.

He's just so annoying. I don't care if he's only mediocre, he should be utter shit as punishment for Brawl.

dondon also didn't use units with super shitty base stats.

The translation isn't going to start until July 15th last I heard. Maybe some of us haven't given up hope for this being translated because we really like the Fire Emblem series that much. I'm not remotely kidding when I say that as of this moment I want this game to be translated more than any other right now, barring maybe Valkyria Chronicles III.

Well, in the FE8 tier list I "put up" (meaning chopped Seth off and said "let's fix this") I said that the goal was maximum efficiency given whatever team you're using. So sometimes Amelia will actually be used seriously. This way there is discussion about all of the units. However, due to how easy FE8 is, this is much easier to do. In other games you can actually use a team so terrible that beating the game becomes impossible (or so incredibly close to it that you can't really tell the difference.)