nflchamp

The game I have in progress in the first one involves Heavy and Earth magic. Looking it up, Heavy 4, Large Blade 4, Elemental 4, Earth 4 at the moment. Only at The Shiel. <_<

In response to Vykan (and probably agreeing with dondon), I feel that there have ever only been two ways a character has ever moved on a tier list. We realize that a character can do something we previously didn't think they could. (Or the opposite.) We redefine or better define what we think it means "to be good". If one of these two things isn't fulfilled, no one is going to change their opinion on the placement of characters. As there is only so much we can discuss about what a character can do, tier lists will inevitably start trying to better define what we think it means to be good. If we do better define what it means to be good, it usually ends up with more discussion about what characters can do in reference with the new definition. In other words, we fall into a cycle in tier debating: We discuss 1) to death We discuss 2) We make refinements to what it means to be good We discuss 1) to death so on and so forth This is how discussion has progressed in the past and how it still progresses now. The "problem" (if you want to call it that) is that we have gotten to a point where discussing 2) hasn't led us to making any changes to what it means to be good. What people seem to want is to be able to discuss 1) without ever discussing it completely which, as said before, is impossible because there is only so much to discuss. If you think such a tier list, where we only need to look at what characters can do and never need to look at what is "good", is the "solution" to the "problem", then it is impossible to fix the tier lists. Tier lists' very foundations are made from the discussion of what is "good"; you can't get rid of that without getting rid of the tier lists themselves.

I'd like to add that, under the highest growth increases idea, it's likely the game would simply start with HP growth and ask if there is a growth that is larger. If yes, it'd continue to STR growth and ask again. So on and so forth until it returned 'no', at which point that stat would auto-increase. This would cause the phenomenon of the highest growth increasing with the order stated.

Spellforce is a great series. I'd say Legend of Dragoon for PS1.

I'm only reading what people are typing in English, since I'm no where near good enough at Japanese to read that quickly (nor the patience to figure it out), but to me it's sounding like a school girl having a crush on a teacher and fantasizing about it despite the fact she knows society would think poorly of it and shouldn't.

IS is clearly trying to encourage the making of AO rated games.

Zelgius was a 'knight' who followed his 'lord'. I never saw anything that says he'd want to join the "good side".

And we usually just call this a tiebreaker and move on.

No, it's just that you killed everyone but Dart and Fargus.

You really mean, "Zihark is okay so long as he basically isn't doing anything more than plugging a hole." Which is great and all, but I can get Leonardo to do the same thing with less chance of counter-critting and killing himself.

I'd like to think that, even though they know the games get hacked, the developers silently protest against it by acting as if it won't happen.

Volug was free in 1-5 in the draft I hosted. The reasoning was because I felt it was pointless to give a penalty to a unit that wasn't saving turns anyways. I'd probably advocate a similar situation in 2-P.

Even though the animation (or whatever you want to call it) happens for Resolve "activating", it might be that the stats are always boosted in the programming after the change made to the skill for non-JAP versions. That could help to explain why vantage activated more than Adept, despite the seeming difference in activation rates caused by resolve.

Narga asked for it to be closed because it was originally a second efficiency tier list. Once the rules stopped being "efficiency", Narga retracted his want for the thread to be closed.

Certainly, we'll recognize and note the existence of these small chances. But when it comes to tiering, these things only end up mattering as a tiebreaker of sorts. In general, they'll be ignored because it doesn't matter.

I wish more people actually understood the reasoning we ignore things, like the fastest completions of chapters and what not. We don't do anything to "promote discussion." That's just stupid. If the topic is interesting, we'll discuss it. If we discuss everything we can think of and move on to discuss something else, that's fine. The reason the fastest completions are ignored are because they're unreliable, needing single-digit crits or insane survival odds. Will a single-digit crit that speeds up the chapter happen sometimes? Of course. Is it pertinent to the tiering process? Heck no. We care about what is most likely to happen, or something that is very likely to happen even if not most likely, when moving at a quick pace.

I don't care that it has been weeks, I'm continuing. Starting with Misty. Staryu hardens, and I put it to sleep with sleep powder. Peridot uses growth a few times and OHKOs Staryu with Vine Whip. I proceed to OHKO Starmie too. Easy battle. Taught Pearl Water Pulse to make life against any random fire pokemon I run into easier. Turned out to be useful to avoid attacking against things like Nidoran that have poison point. Went and got Cut from the S.S. Anne, beating up a bunch of trainers for levels. Beat up trainers on Route 11, too. Caught another Bellsprout to use Cut. Went to take on Lt. Surge. Taught Garnet Dig for this. Levels before Surge: Garnet Charmeleon Quirky Level HP ATK DEF SATK SDEF SPD 28 74 46 41 50 49 56 Dig Smokescreen Ember Metal Claw Pearl Wigglytuff Naughty Level HP ATK DEF SATK SDEF SPD 28 116 55 35 48 30 34 Sing Rollout Water Pulse Mega Punch Peridot Weepinbell Bold Level HP ATK DEF SATK SDEF SPD 27 77 54 40 57 33 36 Vine Whip Growth Acid Sleeppowder Ran everything over with Dig. Raichu took 2, but that was it. Calling it a day. Time: 4:06.

Allies can be used without even risking Geoffrey/Kieran if you have enough left.

How is persuading someone that you are, in fact, correct not count as that someone changing their opinion? I would think that the very fact someone gives a "begrudging admission" would show a change of heart.

If this is the ridiculous claim that Sothe's durability is fine with Resolve, I question why anyone actually believe it holds water. Sothe's best situation (24 SPD, 20 LCK, A Micaiah, thicket) gives him 94 avoid w/o Resolve active. Against the crappy hit rates (136) he has an 2.38% chance of death when 2HKO'd (which is pretty much anything with a Tiger) and a .85% chance of death when 3HKO (pretty much everything without a Tiger). If he loses the thicket his chances of death go up to 8.68% and 4.72% respectively. If he loses Micaiah instead of the thicket for whatever reason it goes up to 14.03% and 8.90%. If we're complaining about Zihark in 3-6, I don't know how we can't complain about Sothe. His 3-6 is not good. He's salvageable in this chapter using beastkiller tricks. He might as well not exist from here on out. My opinion on Sothe is, if not already apparent, that his position is already at the level where I have to question what strands of reason can possibly support it and any higher than that and we move to the point where I have to believe the lot of you who support it are insane. Titania(T) can go above Ike. Titania(N) could go above Sothe. Volug could drop under her. Might as well just combine Ike and Ike(T).

I'm glad I'm not the only one who had that reaction to Monster Rancher Advance games.

Which doesn't seem to prevent you from buying a bunch of weapons, selling the Silver Card, and selling the weapons for forge points.

No. Sothe can get credit for providing as with (a high percentage of) Beastfoe as he is most likely to get it. Sothe gets the utility of giving us a (high percentage of a) skill that lets pretty much anyone OHKO cats and ORKO tigers if they double or OHKO tigers with crossbow. He does not get credit for just how well any other character puts beastfoe to use. Sothe did not give us someone else's stats and, by extension, did not give us the extent they can use beastfoe.

We are still operating under opportunity costs as far as I know. Needing resources could easily be a deterrent from getting into Top Tier. You're making it sound like it doesn't matter that Titania takes resources. You'll note needing resources is the argument for why Titania (N) is not top tier and not Sothe. The argument for why Sothe is not top tier is more along the lines of 'he does no where near enough towards efficiency to be top tier'. I have to believe that you missed the point of Int's post. The fact that you can duplicate anything Sothe can do, even if it is inferior, is something that differentiates him from Haar and would constitute reason for a tier gap. (Not to mention that this is still directed at Titania and not Sothe.) This part of the quote is saying that Haar is not top tier without resources for any of these reasons precisely because they can be duplicate, even if not as well. This is the reason Haar is top tier out of the box; he has something that is unique that can be greatly utilized.

I don't care whether you think it helps or not, the point is that Int is not, and has never been, alone on the side that you're all delusional for wanting to move Sothe even higher. 1-3, 1-4, 1-6-1, 1-8. I fail to see how he is outright my best character in any other chapter.