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a happy birthday to LIERIS and SCUMBEE

Shin, only 20/20 stats count so that doesn't mean anything. Pretty sure she would have capped MAG and maybe even SPD with another Speedwing. Throw in like 5 Boots and she could have done all that AT 15 MOVE #whoa #OP #buyablestatboosters #WORTH

My favourite low tier unit is SOPHIA sure she's trash, tinks people, and gets OHKOd and also doubled in return, but she gets you a Guiding Ring! And according to Jedi she is even usable in HM so HA take that tier lists!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Need a checker for Politics Mafia because I made some changes that make it Semi-Open rather than completely Open.

Strege has been townreading me rather consistently; even with the Manix flip it would have been kind of weird to 180 and vote me. Also I am the best scum ever, just not in this game.

@Elie- What? I have never said even once that I thought Eclipse was scum. I think she's town, and I've said so since Day 1. @j00- Your logic doesn't really make sense to mebecause I was one of the first people to call out both Strege and Raymond today. I don't see how either is an easy mislynch either. Besides, my Manix interactions make me a way easier lynch than either of the other two. As for my play on previous days; I've been busy with school.

Well I can and will switch my vote to Strege/Raymond as necessary; the only reason I split the votes up is because people (in particular, you) expressed that me throwing votes around was preventing others from voting as they wanted to. I just don't realistically see Strege/Eclipse/Elie/SB all being town at this point and Strege is the least townie of the lot. After Strege it would be Elie. His play has been extremely lackluster today; he's done very little other than votepark me and at this point my entire townread is hinging on Manix interactions and that Kaoz post during the night. He was suspicious of me last phase, and even I can admit that my Manix interactions aren't great. The fact that he's just sitting on his vote instead of pushing it more makes me uncomfortable. He actually has more content pushing Strege today than me and it's not like I've been that inactive today. Strege > Raymond > Elie > Refa with Refa being in that list for similar reasons to Elie

;_; I can't remember Strege ever crumbing his role before as any alignment. But with a Hooker, Jailer, and Delay + Empower I don't see why we need this super-protect.

It's a general holistic feel about her posts that I got in D2, which is presumably why most people were also townreading Conq even before the dayvig? Also Manix interactions. Like I said, she voted him early and didn't drop it even when she was the only person remaining on the wagon and she easily could have. Doing so would probably have resulted in someone else being lynched other than Manix. Also when I say stuff with exclamation marks behind it I am generally joking in some way, especially when there are three of them. I'm moving my anonyvote from Strege to Raymond so people can be more free with their votes. His explanations don't really cut it for me; he still hasn't satisfactorily explained to me why SB and Refa suddenly became scummier than Manix just before consolidation. All he's saying is that SB and Refa were first more valid wagons and then later not at L-1, and that he found them scummier. Why?

Don't the votes on Conq have to be at the end of the phase?

But why were SB/Refa higher scumspects? The only reason you gave for unvoting Manix was that other people weren't interested in that lynch. That doesn't express a lessening of suspicion in any way. So how did SB and Refa both suddenly become more suspicious than Manix to warrant not switching your vote back when Manix did in fact become a viable wagon again? And as I said earlier, Manix wasn't even at L-1 for most of the time- voting him wouldn't have resulted in a hammer. And what makes my push unfounded? I don't really have anything to expound on. Her posts were overall good and she voted Manix early and unlike you, stuck to it. Also I read the post where you voted me a little more closely. You vote me over SB simply for "pressure" even though I already had 2 votes on me which is kind of lol. Basically you just wanted to make me a wagon, which is understandable when your scumbuddy was the other one!!! Also yesterday you treated SB's claim as null but completely disregard the circumstances around it- his claim could have gotten him into a 1v1 for no good reason.

SERIOUS BUSSER I don't know what this even means; why is being scummy for lacking things less worthy of a vote than being scummy for having things? I mean I could say you're scummy for having a scum role PM but I could also say that you're scummy for lacking a town role PM and both would be valid!

My townread on j00 is because her play D2 was obvtown. I gave a PR to Strege but ??? it didn't seem to show up in his posts and he didn't acknowledge it so idk. Prims said I targeted him successfully and my vote works sooo I have no idea where anyone gets that I was waffling hard on Manix on D1. I went from finding him suspicious to finding him less suspicious but still suspicious to voting him for consolidation to finding him town at the very end. That's not waffling, that's just changing my mind in a natural progression. Raymond's vote is also super reactionary; he hasn't said a single thing about me all game other than that I failed to catch his attention and then suddenly when I express suspicion of him I begin to stand out. Funny how that works no? Also for someone who was scumreading Manix you would think he would pay more attention to the people hard-defending him. Raymond is also bordering on flat-out lying when he says he would have switched to Manix because he explicitly said in #545 that he preferred an SB lynch to a Manix lynch. This was consolidation time, Manix wasn't at L-1, and was a perfectly legitimate wagon. Also when Raymond unvoted, there were 3 votes for Refa, 2 for Manix, and 3 for SB, by my count. I don't see how that means a Manix lynch isn't happening. Evidence for Strege refusing to consolidate on Manix- #245, says "yeah Manix will probably come up with better content when he's less busy" which is IMO a fairly weak excuse. On Day 2 #529 is Manix waffling that puts him at #2 even though he doesn't seem very enthusiastic about the Manix lynch. Then in #578 he talks about how he doesn't want to lynch Manix based on some incorrect logic. Not harping on that specifically because that would be pretty hypocritical, but then when he admits the logic is wrong in #588 he doesn't really say whether that means he wants to lynch Manix or not.

With regards to Manix making jabs at his buddies- he's fully capable of that IMO. Bard hosted a game here relatively recently where Manix and his buddy staged a slapfight for most of D1. Then there was this game (admittedly a long time ago now) where he'd rolled scum for like the 5th in a row so he got tired and went into D2 with the intention to sacrifice himself and let himself get hard-bussed by most of his team.

There was a time when I was dedicated enough about mafia to go read past games solely for the purpose of improving my read on someone. Sadly, that time has passed. Regardless, I wouldn't lynch you before Strege or Raymond and hopefully if they're not scum you'll be dead by then @Elie- self-meta isn't scummy when you bring it up as a direct defence to someone using meta against you because there's no other way to defend against a meta case. It's only scummy if you do it unprompted and even then that's kind of questionable. Also, did Kaoz claim Cop somewhere himself???

Yes, I hard defended Manix because of his roleclaim. I've also subbed in with 24 hours left in D1 and proceeded to get my buddy with no prior votes or suspicion on them lynched. My scum meta isn't so predictable as "defend my buddies". Quick skim of Raymond's ISO confirms my feeling he is scum. He pushes Manix hard near the beginning of D2, but then drops him because he feels like the case is going nowhere. Firstly, this is an odd sentiment to express because just earlier he'd said that he wished his vote could count twice (sorry not everybody is me!!!), which implies a very strong suspicion. Dropping something like that that because the case "isn't going anywhere" seems off, partly because that phrase by itself is really ambiguous. Does he mean that nobody else seems to believe him? Not really true- j00 was also voting him IIRC and if that was the reason, then he should have jumped back on Manix when there was support for it. Instead, similarly to Strege, he pussies out of actually consolidating on him, putting him not just behind SB but also Refa in terms of consolidation.

So I'm scum only because I hard-defended Manix? ##Vote: Strege Strege is where the scum is. His posts wrt Manix smell of scum distancing- on both days he talks a lot about how Manix is suspicious but when push comes to shove doesn't consolidate on him on either of the days and has him as a perpetual minor scumread for no good reason. I was leaning town on Refa anyways and Manix pushing him as a counterwagon solidifies it in my mind. Elie surprised me in the night phase; I was expecting him to come out GUNS BLAZING about how I'm scum since he spent so long on D2 talking about staged bussing between me and Manix, but his only posts involve a post for his neighbour and a kind of weak prod about Kaoz defending Manix. He's probably town regardless because he could have waited for me to come back and switch my votes to Refa instead of hammering Manix if he was scum, and also because he wouldn't really bother making the Kaoz prod if the mafia were planning on killing him that night anyways. Assuming Manix Rolecopped him N1, a Kaoz kill must have been fairly early on in the books. I think the following people are town: SB, Eclipse, j00, Refa, Elie, and probably Conq. This leaves Strege and Raymond to me as the remaining scumteam. About the "probably" on Conq. I don't have a case but his tone just doesn't feel as engaged as I feel it normally does when he's town. This could easily be because it's not his home forum and he's not familiar with most of the player base, especially as he looks good on Manix interactions, but ugh. Luckily since he's Vig, if he's town I don't think the mafia will keep him alive too much longer even to mess with people and make them think he's scum. Role + being a strong player makes him too dangerous. Time to go read Kaoz to see if he dropped any hints about his N1 target.

But not always. Anyways, I was thinking more about the topic while I was taking a shower and I realized that that question is not really relevant at all, although your answer was more or less what I was expecting. I believe that beginning to hate (or love) someone is a choice, in most scenarios. Do I believe that it's possible to avoid impulsive knee-jerk reaction emotions? No, you're pretty much stuck with those. But those emotions aren't hatred. As Chiki and Dondon keep saying, hate is an intense feeling of dislike. Classifying an initial gut reaction to someone pissing you off as hatred cheapens what it signifies, in my opinion. There is a moment, I believe, except for maybe the most extreme scenarios (I have never experienced anything extreme like the death of a loved one, so I will refrain from including that in my generalization) where you consciously choose to decide that this person or thing is just terrible. It's like love at first sight. People talk about it but I have yet to ever see a convincing argument that an emotion that is as strong as love can appear without any reason or subconscious thinking at all. Once strong emotions do appear, I agree that it's very difficult to change them. But in letting it get to that point you've already made a choice, in my opinion.

@Chiki/Dondon- Have you never changed your feelings about someone? Began disliking them and then liked them after a while, or vice versa?

I think the FE universe should skip steam and gunpowder and head straight to THE SPACE AGE

Yeah this happened to me too. I'd played FE9 before (and also been a FE fan for years) so I knew who Haar was, but I expected that he would make his way near me by himself or auto-join at the end of the map. I was just holing out in a corner playing defence so I didn't approach him myself. Then I beat the map and nothing happened and I was like wtf. Luckily I had a save from the beginning of 1-E so I just redid that map.

Aren't Tate/Shanna also quite a bit worse in Sacae? Been a while since I've played it, but they're probably not getting the Delphi Shield over Miledy, so they get wrecked by all the Nomads, and I think there's also a lot less terrain in it compared to Ilia, so a lot of their rescuing utility can probably be replicated by Paladins. And speaking of Paladins, I think Noah could move up over at least the Snipers. Bows are nice but are also bows, and Shin is probably taking Brave anyways. I feel like a lot of their utility comes in killing Wyverns, but you might as well bring along Bartre if that's all they're doing.

Anyways I have to leave for a while to run some errands but I'll be back before phase end

I don't see why I need to look at it separately.

I don't think either SB or Eclipse are scum. Neither's actions make sense from a scum POV.