Makaze
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Posts posted by Makaze
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MultiQuote is now working in ISOs.
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1 minute ago, Prims said:
wait hold on why does makaze say he pleads the third. thats literally not a thing. you plead the fifth. bro is constantly thinking about thirds?.?>?>>?
i got back up to post this
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9 minutes ago, Prims said:
also mods gotta start ordering the votals in order from earliest vote to last vote for player convenience at a glance, the mod votals are alphabetical and the bot votals are I think in reverse order? this baffles me because when I read the champs game it seemed like the votals were the way I'm used to so I don't figure everyone decided on a new system or something
You'll have to be clearer about your expectation. If you mean the most recent vote is to the right, I can make that happen. It's currently the opposite.
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I plead the third.
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It will not be possible to eliminate me today
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39 minutes ago, Makaze said:
Massive upgrades and breaking changes for both ISO and Votals scripts:
- View each page the thread from beginning to end. Once a page has been viewed you will not have to view it again, but you must do so the first time to get the data to load. The thread will be loaded into a database to be used by both scripts.
- Once you have viewed every page, ISO and votals will work normally, but even better, including with vote history.
- A notification of which pages you are missing will be added tomorrow.
Notification about missing pages added.
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joo's vote is there. Yours didn't work because you didn't use a mention.
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Automated Votecount
Makaze (4): Refa (46), Prims (50), Sunwoo (76), Elieson (6)
Bluedoom (4): Rapier (64), Percivalé (16), Snike (34), Makaze (186)
WeaponsofMassConstruction (3): BBM (48), j00 (40), Shinori (110)
Rapier (2): WeaponsofMassConstruction (70), charlie_ (34)
charlie_ (1): Bluedoom (76)
Not voting (2): BT. (14), CT075 (14)SpoilerVOTING HISTORY
Page 2:
#28: Rapier voted for Prims
#29: Rapier voted for Prims
#32: Snike voted for Rapier
#36: Sunwoo voted for Snike
#41: Shinori voted for Elieson
#47: Refa voted for Makaze
#49: Prims voted for ShinoriPage 3:
#56: BBM voted for Makaze
#62: Makaze voted for BBMPage 4:
#78: WeaponsofMassConstruction voted for Prims
#80: Shinori voted for WeaponsofMassConstruction
#82: Rapier voted for Makaze
#90: Sunwoo voted for WeaponsofMassConstructionPage 5:
#109: Shinori voted for Elieson
#120: Bluedoom voted for Refa
#123: Rapier voted for BBMPage 6:
#127: WeaponsofMassConstruction voted for Sunwoo
#135: Rapier voted for BluedoomPage 7:
#161: Refa voted for Sunwoo
#171: Bluedoom voted for Sunwoo
#173: Sunwoo voted for RefaPage 8:
#182: BBM voted for Prims
#192: Makaze voted for BBMPage 9:
#222: Makaze voted for Bluedoom
#223: Shinori voted for PrimsPage 10:
#230: Snike voted for Bluedoom
#234: charlie_ voted for Shinori
#245: Prims voted for Snike
#248: BBM voted for Snike
#250: Shinori voted for WeaponsofMassConstructionPage 11:
#251: Percivalé voted for Bluedoom
#263: j00 voted for Refa
#266: Rapier voted for BluedoomPage 12:
#289: Elieson voted for MakazePage 13:
#312: Sunwoo voted for MakazePage 14:
#349: charlie_ voted for RapierPage 15:
#365: j00 voted for WeaponsofMassConstructionPage 16:
#387: WeaponsofMassConstruction voted for Rapier
#391: Prims voted for MakazePage 17:
#424: BBM voted for WeaponsofMassConstructionPage 18:
#441: Bluedoom voted for charlie_
#448: Refa voted for Makaze -
Automated Votecount
Makaze (4): Refa (46), Prims (50), Sunwoo (76), Elieson (6)
Bluedoom (4): Rapier (64), Percivalé (16), Snike (34), Makaze (186)
WeaponsofMassConstruction (3): BBM (48), j00 (40), Shinori (110)
Rapier (2): WeaponsofMassConstruction (70), charlie_ (34)
charlie_ (1): Bluedoom (76)
Not voting (2): BT. (14), CT075 (14)Spoiler@Bluedoom @j00 I keep reading that I’m active lurking, I think you should link posts where I’m not actively pressuring people or working on a read. It should be easy to do if you’re right and there’s no reason not too!
@Rapier You never answered my question from before. Also I never voted Shinori nor have I even scumread Shinori (Snike mentioned this too, very confusing) so not sure where you’re getting that from. I feel like you’re not really reading my posts. What makes Elieson’s Makaze read stuck in RVS compared to your Makaze read?
@Makaze I literally asked you the question right after said I don’t get it. That means I don’t understand the thought process and want an answer to determine if there’s scum intent or not. If I stop pushing someone or am satisfied with their responses, you should know where my read is at without me explicitly saying it. My problem with you is not your reads themselves but how you’re going about pursuing them. Its fine to gutread people but your interactions do not read like you pursuing those reads.
Boron, I don’t like how all of your scumreads are because people lack presence. Im fine with your town/null reads but your actual pressure this game doesn’t feel genuine to me. Itd be one thing if you were struggling to get reads but Im not getting that impression from you.
Had to do some soul searching here because I feel like most of j00s content has also been town/null reads but the actual scumreads themselves I can understand more. So I think that’s what differentiates a player who bothers me and a player who doesn’t.
Here’s where my head is at the moment:
-I’m feeling better about Bluedoom. Earlier it felt like all of his content was laser focused on a specific interaction and his other reads since then have been deece.
-Cam’s one post was fine but I really don’t like the Makaze scumread into not voting Makaze
-Makaze is sus. He has reads but he’s not pushing them or really meaningfully interacting besides explaining his reads.
-Shinori I get the cases on but I am not reading scum intent there? It feels like his earlier actions are scummy but not his thought process. I like his Rapier case honestly. I probably have to reread Rapier because of it though so thanks for nothing Shinori. Wouldn’t vote.
-I don’t think Snike is scum. The things people are calling him out for are things like three other people have done in this thread and everyone is fine with those. I’d like to know the difference between these reads and what makes Snike look worse.
-I’m not bothered by Boron not voting me initially, I think that’s a weak point.
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Massive upgrades and breaking changes for both ISO and Votals scripts:
- View each page the thread from beginning to end. Once a page has been viewed you will not have to view it again, but you must do so the first time to get the data to load. The thread will be loaded into a database to be used by both scripts.
- Once you have viewed every page, ISO and votals will work normally, but even better, including with vote history.
- A notification of which pages you are missing will be added tomorrow.
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Just now, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:
@Makaze how would you play differently as scum (i know you hate this question lol)
I would probably be making fancier plays and hoping that even more wackiness would keep me alive
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Automated Votecount
Makaze (4): Refa (46), Prims (50), Sunwoo (76), Elieson (6)
Bluedoom (4): Rapier (64), Percivalé (16), Snike (34), Makaze (182)
WeaponsofMassConstruction (3): BBM (48), j00 (40), Shinori (110)
Rapier (2): WeaponsofMassConstruction (64), charlie_ (34)
charlie_ (1): Bluedoom (76)
Not voting (2): BT. (14), CT075 (14) -
I don't think it's fair to say that I have only focused on BBM; I have tried to focus on other things and have engaged with others directly, but everyone keeps going back and asking me to update about BBM.
@Refa I may have just found out what was bothering me. It feels like you are being uncharitable with your reads. You have consistently (I may have a bad memory) listed both good and bad points about people, and then sided with the bad. Your case about me just now was an extreme example, but it's not the only one. Pretty much every bullet point in that wall seems like you decided who was town ahead of time and then made up some arguments to justify it. i.e.When someone has a case that you disagree with you do the same thing, and ultimately you end up choosing what you were going to end up anyway, and it feels like a performance.
On top of that, our reads are almost polar opposites, and that is not what I expect from someone of your caliberEntertain me for a bit. Who on my wagon is the most suspicious?
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Automated Votecount
WeaponsofMassConstruction (3): BBM (48), j00 (40), Shinori (110)
Makaze (3): Prims (50), Sunwoo (76), Elieson (6)
Rapier (3): WeaponsofMassConstruction (64), charlie_ (34), Snike (34)
Bluedoom (3): Rapier (64), Percivalé (16), Makaze (178)
charlie_ (1): Bluedoom (74)
Sunwoo (1): Refa (40)
Not voting (2): BT. (14), CT075 (14) -
The more I express my thought process, the more confused everyone gets
two of my places in the PoE were in movement while I making that list that I posted, and I explained why I was moving them while I was writing. Prims was at the bottom and still not able to be moved out of my PoE, and Weapons was being moved back in because of how flimsy Rapier case and how weasely they were being
15 minutes ago, Prims said:I hate using quotes now, but what stuck out to me to solidify this impression was that he is ambivalent about me in a way where he doesn't want a repeat of arguments from past games, because from my point of view my interactions with him in this game haven't been the same as in previous games? For one I wasn't really suspicious of him until he said that me not starting conflict with him was tilting, which was oddly self-conscious on his part. Like, there is this weird push-and-pull where he acts conflict avoidant with people then is pinged when they don't start conflict with him (I've pointed out him doing this with BBM and Snike in my past posts). Also even though I'm in his PoE, his responses to me seem more focused on shaking me off.
My read on this leans toward self-conscious scum, but I'm not sure if something happened to change his personality in the last however many years. I do admit it is difficult to tell where "Makaze the human being" and "Makaze the player with an alignment" begins and ends wrt responding to attacks on his play.I am not sure how to read you, but the way you've been attacking me feels like in past games, and you have been in every one of those games iirc, that's what I was saying
You are spot on with that analysis, but I don't think there's anything wrong with relating to people better when they are scum reading me
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I'm going to dip out before I ruin the game for everyone
SpoilerBack before you know it
For self-improvements' sake, what is the right way to leave a legacy for things that realistically won't matter until later?
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1 minute ago, BBM said:
i like how the editor keeps saving a post I already made 8 hours ago but losing the ones I'm actually working on
@WeaponsofMassConstruction you said you had trouble following prims's snike case. why? what made it weird and what's your opinion on snike? quick ctrl+f can't find anything else from you but this about him. also i'm trying to read your last post but it's so stream of consciousness that i can't tell where one thought ends and the next one starts between rapier and j00. are you saying that you don't like that j00 is just prodding, or are you responding in some way to her vote against you?
@Makaze i mean tells don't have to be universally correct all the time but that doesnt mean there isn't a specific tell in that moment.
weapons's last post didn't make him less suspicious to me but he did make a good point about rapier. so i'm trying to figure out how i feel about that dichotomy via his non-rapier thoughts. also weapons and rapier are prooobably #2 and #3 for me right now but like I said they don't really fit together as scum so I don't feel comfortable with that state of affairs. will re-read rapier after eating
are you asking me who I think is town or who I think is scum?
I am asking who you would shield from an elimination
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Just now, BBM said:
@Prims I agree that Makaze's Saturday activity was unorthodox in an unhelpful way but I think his Sunday activity has been markedly different outside of some whack stuff he's said like the bit below. He has clearly been trying to engage and give reasons for things more instead of treating the thread like his own quicktopic. what do you think about the post-by-post analysis of me beyond just the first line?
@Makaze this is really confusing. did you not believe what you said about me in your post-by-post analysis (at least at the time)? also, I quoted my post about weapons, literally with what weapons asked that I didn't like (they were both one-liners too so nothing out of context). i don't like having to do the official SF quote thing more than I need to, it's confusing and eats my posts and makes the thread visually more grating for me.
@Snike I found the initial vote opportunistic and looking like you were looking for something easy over pushing something hard (Prims). then yeah it became a tunnel because not only were you posting little about anyone else, you were really focusing on specific things he did rather than look at his play holistically.
I know I said I probably wouldn't be swayed by Snike posting more Marth stuff but I do like that he was looking for more scum intent in the latest post. I need to think a bit more about snike weapons and rapier and how I would order them in my mind. weapons and rapier are unlikely to be buddies (with both of them facing increasing pressure, a bus at this stage increases odds a lot of a d1 scum lynch). i still feel very conflicted about rapier, which also makes me unsure how to feel about weapons's vote there. rapier was right that it was dumb of me to accuse him of parking his vote on marth when it had been just a few hours. there's so much content right now it feels like a lot more time is passing than it actually is. that being said i kind of see what weapons means about the posts sounding ok but then the logic not really ever being right. ugh
I am not as confident in my ability to justify my feelings as I am about my feelings, and I am not going to be mad at anyone for feeling like I made them up after the fact, because that is the case, and is always going to be until I have some real evidence. There are no universal tells. If I am going to catch someone, it is going to be for the wrong reasons, and I am not going to expect anyone to be able to put up a fight if I am right off of nothing
I cant' tell what you think of Weapons at this point, since you seem to be sheeping them and shading them at different points. How would you feel about a Weapons elimination
Who would you say is *not* in your PoE?
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1 minute ago, Rapier said:
tbh what I don't enjoy is that you seem to be going in a counter-logical way about it: Conclusion first (X is scum), premises latter (why they're scum and what I can find that sustains my gut feel). Also, your case quality is directly proportional to your accuracy, and if you just go by "my gut feeling will prove whether I'm right or wrong", chances are staked against you and this can backfire horribly even if you're town (and it's irresponsible to go off that read as town. That just benefits the mafia).
I love that you're voting me because you don't understand what I'm saying lmao
What seems iffy to me is that you say you agree with "whoever came with this new wave of suspicion on me" but also not, and you don't even remember who started with it, and this resounds with other players' complaints about you making easy cases and then dropping out. Still, I think you'd go for another wagon for convenience's sake, although Marth's wagon is seen in an unfavorable light and that leaves either me and iirc Refa (I don't remember who's the second highest in votes), so I'm not sure if this is another case of "scum picks an easy wagon for vague motives and calls it a day". It wasn't the first time you did that though (as per your very first vote during RVS), and that bothers me.
I relate with feeling super tired though. It's definitely taking more mental energy than I thought I had and I feel like a blind man on a crosswalk during rush hour.
Yeah, I hadn't read your back and forth with SB then, as it was a page before I accused you of spending 90% of the time either joking past RVS phase or justifying/defending/"reflecting" (if that's your prefered term), as you admit. I retracted that point when you started to contribute more, from your discussion with SB onwards. It was my fault skipping over that new content.
Boron vs Marth seem genuine and gives me vibes on them having the same alignment, which seems more likely to be town infighting (I don't see this circus being that productive as scum vs scum roleplaying). I really need to sit down, reread Marth (or at the very least, him and the biggest wagons) and collect my thoughts.
I feel extremely strongly that Rapier is town
I am taking your criticism but I'm not sure how to fix it because this is how I am until I have something better than my gut instincts. I do not know of another way to play. I don't have reasons until I have evidence, and everything that someone could call a universal scum or town tell depends on the person which is all about vibes anyway.
1 minute ago, Shinori said:Boron v Marth back and forth is kind of feeling town v town to me on page 13. Note to self to reread all of their conversation previously so get a better feeling on this.
Refa also feels nice reading over their posts on page 13, they at least get a few points towards the town side.
When people wonder what my alignment read stuff is, this is it
This post makes it extremely unlikely for Shinori, Boron and Marth to be on the same scum team, but increases the chances one of Boron or Marth is if Shinori is scum
To a much less extreme extent, Refa/Shinori feels like a possibility, at least from Shinori4 minutes ago, Prims said:I guess that makes sense. I still think you are unengaged though. Putting it in terms of playing the game like a spectator does make it easier for me to see where you're coming from at least but in general my read is that you're not invested in who gets lynched; I guess you prefer Marth right now on PoE? You don't really defend your townreads (when Boron has been one of the main wagons today) or the wagons you "want to avoid eliminating" - what places Refa and Snike in that bucket for you?
I have people I would shield from the elim, but I am not going to fight over specifics within the PoE when no one is taking my gut reads seriously
I am comfortable eliminating in
BBM
Bluedoom
Elieson
Prims
People Iam consideringam already adding to this list:
Refa
Weapons
I feel like we have this same argument in every game, so I'm not confident in how I'm reading you, but I think you would be useful in the late game, and the feeling I'm getting that is just like our last game together is making me think you're town
I am coming around on Weapons because almost all of their stuff feels as flimsy as it did originally, and I'm getting "throwing shade" and it feels opportunistic. All of their reads are based on generic scum patterns and "could bes" instead of "have to bes". The claims he is making about Rapier seem like projections
I do not have as strong an opinion about Snike and percivale as my other town leans, but I don't think we should eliminate them today anyway -
3 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:
if i had to put it simply, i would say i feel like rapier's posts lack doubt
please provide at least one example or what post made you start feeling this read
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1 minute ago, Prims said:
man I use a wider monitor than I did when I used to post in mafia years back so when I write my posts in Notepad++ they look smaller to me than they actually are. Gonna start reducing Notepad++'s width to the size of SF's post column while writing
I'm feeling a bit better about Snike after this post which does explain why his priorities are the way they were - there is still a bit of weirdness to me though in that I thought his reply to me made him sound more tonally adamant about me than Marth (in a way where I wondered if it was forced bluster, since Marth was still his vote) and personally I think people have been iffy enough on me and Weapons that suspecting us wasn't really going against the grain of the thread like he says. His posting since his entrance has felt more engaged though so I think I'm OK moving him down the suspect list for now.
##Unvote
##Vote: @MakazeI want to push this more. Tbh I've continuously found Makaze's posting useless and it bugs me because this is what I'd expect from an unorthodox player who randed maf - posts that give up the appearance of unorthodox play but don't really move us forward at all. I don't see town's desire to find scum and work with other people to lynch them in his posts, his pushes on Bluedoom and BBM have started out vague and he requires pushing before he tries to convince other people on them. He's usually interacting with BBM, who is his main scumread, but not in a way that seems to evolve his read or produce a convincing argument why BBM is scum. Damn it there's more "it's so weird he doesn't find a slot like me scummy" komaeda danganronpa (not refa) style posting too and here it's really inconclusive.
! Okay you are being Proto then. What are they teaching people on mafiauniverse. If you're Weird Town and not scum then I still need you to actually engage with the game more beyond "these are my thoughts I can't make convincing arguments out of" and defending yourself, because you are still posting within the framework of a game where you have a win condition. I can't really tell how you feel about existing wagons and other people's cases, which flips you think would help gamestate for you even if you have no reads, etc. Basically you come off as oddly unengaged with the actual "lynch scum" part of the game for somebody posting as much as you are.
@Makaze when you do the post-by-post-analysis of BBM here you open up by saying his first post is "innocent enough" but it was what got you to first call him scummy. Was your initial read on him a bluff or did you really gutread him over his RVS entrance?I don't think we are going to get anywhere with this
If you want a look in my head right now, you might be able to tell what I'm thinking about Weapons, based on my questions at him
SpoilerThey do not teach me this on MU. I have played even less there than I have here. I am used to making shot in the dark reads from a spectator server and not even being able to interact with the thread directly; that is probably why I am behaving this way without even realizing. I am not used to playing the game.
I did genuinely gut read it, but that main read was based on a post-by-post experience and not an ISO of him. I was trying to be objective when explaining it. Looking at the pure content, there is no rational reason I would react that way to it; the post itself just feels off to me, and it is never going to feel as serious as it did when it was all that I had from him -
7 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:
it's the general pattern where he responds to stuff, and then is then is like "this is bad because: [classic mafia scumtell]". like, does he really believe in the scumtell or is he just using it to look reasonable. i mean i guess i ask the question for pretty much everyone, which is why i'm leaning more towards non-standard "town leaks" vibes sorts of reads nowadays
Quote an example (or two) that feel fake to you
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1 minute ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:
##Vote: @Rapier
who here agrees with Rapier's logic on stuff? I feel like we are town reading him because he's active, but that really reminds me of the previous game with Paperblade and whatnot. i'm struggling to determine whether he is using his reasoning honestly (as opposed to manipulatively)
Which reasoning do you consider potentially manipulative?
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For some insight on my play, I am coming from my main exposure to the game being spectator chats only for about 5 years.
(Mafia Sucks) SF Mafia: The Revival - GAME OVER, Town Wins!
in Mafia
Posted
I believe that I've got the vote ordering down.
Automated Votecount
Bluedoom (4): Makaze (198), Snike (34), Percivalé (16), Rapier (64)
Refa (3): BT. (18), Prims (64), j00 (42)
Makaze (3): Elieson (6), Sunwoo (76), Refa (46)
WeaponsofMassConstruction (2): Shinori (110), BBM (48)
Rapier (2): charlie_ (34), WeaponsofMassConstruction (70)
charlie_ (1): Bluedoom (76)
Not voting (1): CT075 (14)
@Bluedoom @j00 I keep reading that I’m active lurking, I think you should link posts where I’m not actively pressuring people or working on a read. It should be easy to do if you’re right and there’s no reason not too!
@Rapier You never answered my question from before. Also I never voted Shinori nor have I even scumread Shinori (Snike mentioned this too, very confusing) so not sure where you’re getting that from. I feel like you’re not really reading my posts. What makes Elieson’s Makaze read stuck in RVS compared to your Makaze read?
@Makaze I literally asked you the question right after said I don’t get it. That means I don’t understand the thought process and want an answer to determine if there’s scum intent or not. If I stop pushing someone or am satisfied with their responses, you should know where my read is at without me explicitly saying it. My problem with you is not your reads themselves but how you’re going about pursuing them. Its fine to gutread people but your interactions do not read like you pursuing those reads.
Boron, I don’t like how all of your scumreads are because people lack presence. Im fine with your town/null reads but your actual pressure this game doesn’t feel genuine to me. Itd be one thing if you were struggling to get reads but Im not getting that impression from you.
Had to do some soul searching here because I feel like most of j00s content has also been town/null reads but the actual scumreads themselves I can understand more. So I think that’s what differentiates a player who bothers me and a player who doesn’t.
Here’s where my head is at the moment:
-I’m feeling better about Bluedoom. Earlier it felt like all of his content was laser focused on a specific interaction and his other reads since then have been deece.
-Cam’s one post was fine but I really don’t like the Makaze scumread into not voting Makaze
-Makaze is sus. He has reads but he’s not pushing them or really meaningfully interacting besides explaining his reads.
-Shinori I get the cases on but I am not reading scum intent there? It feels like his earlier actions are scummy but not his thought process. I like his Rapier case honestly. I probably have to reread Rapier because of it though so thanks for nothing Shinori. Wouldn’t vote.
-I don’t think Snike is scum. The things people are calling him out for are things like three other people have done in this thread and everyone is fine with those. I’d like to know the difference between these reads and what makes Snike look worse.
-I’m not bothered by Boron not voting me initially, I think that’s a weak point.