Makaze
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Posts posted by Makaze
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1 minute ago, BBM said:
i also didn't like that he unvoted prims so fast because I felt the initial prims vote was actually good at the time, but I'm not sure there's specific scum intent there so eh.
in the interests of me not just over-analyzing or over-responding to everything though I feel like at this point I have a reasonable handle on the game state and will let other people post for a while.
(Alarm bells are ringing again)
Please quote the posts/progression that you felt was "copying his own meta", and where you think he jumped off of Prims too early/what stuck out to you about that progression
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2 minutes ago, BBM said:
i think weapons is scummy but a vote on him feels a bit boring at the moment to me. at least Snike is responding so I'd rather pursue that atm. weapons is always available as a turbolunch if everything else fails 🙂 (side note the current SF emojis look SO bad)
elie just needs to post more. weapons was at least around ED1 to get a bit more idea in terms of interactions after he flips so elie feels like a more natural n2 vig target if it doesn't improve
Which posts make you think Weapons is scummy?
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14 minutes ago, BBM said:
you're essentially correct that I'm refusing to engage with an impossible situation but your conclusion is wrong. until the most recent posts, there was so little you had for me to respond to that I felt like if you were town, the best way for me to actually convince you of anything was to just play my game. your first reason for finding me scum was "vibes but they might change if you solve the game", so uh I tried solving the game. i was hardly the only person to avoid engaging with you or committing to a read on you because there was nothing to say except "that's wack". am I supposed to have more of a read on you because your vibes are wrong? townies are wrong all the time. i was kind of leaning scum on you. i just didn't feel confident enough in it because of your playstyle to get into the situation of spending half my time just on you, but I guess at this point it's going to happen anyways! i will say that seeing your process and also seeing you commit to interacting more with people made me feel significantly better about you so I'm back to a more neutral level. again I really do feel like it will be easier to read you as the game goes on and you have to evolve your reads so I'm not that fussed about it.
i could probably be doing a better job asking questions but the difference between me and you (prior to this post) is I was actually giving reasons for my vibes instead of just stating them for my own benefit. also, if i list stuff i dont like about someone, they're going to respond to it regardless of whether i put a ? at the end, particularly if i vote them
as for me only finding snike scummy via defending marth, that's just... wrong? if i literally vote someone for it how is it toothless? it's also straight up wrong that I never said my feelings about marth. I said at least twice that I tried reading marth and didn't agree with the reasons people gave for voting him, said i wasn't directly townreading but generally found the votes against him more objectionable than anything he did.
i define "marth wagon" as people who voted or expressed strong suspicion for marth. i dont trust any of your votals (sorry) so off the top of my head I believe that's you, rapier, snike, boron, sb (not everyone might have an active vote). i found boron and sb's votes ok though obviously i disagree. i also like the rest of sb's stuff more than other people's, and thought boron's overall tone was townie. other than those, i basically disliked all of your/rapier/snike's votes there. however after I hit send, I took a step back from considering everyone in a vacuum, and realized that it was actually pretty unlikely for 3 scum to all hop on the same wagon that early, so I wanted to disengage and think a bit more about it. i'm kind of waffling on rapier atm, unsure.
also forgot to mention with snike, it turns out I misread part of his vote, but then his initial reason for voting marth is even slimmer. it's really just "oh listread post bad" and nothing else. That's so basic and Snike is still on that.
i am actually reading this now
Boron and sb's votes be okay, and sb and boron feel like town, and yet "everyone on the wagon" seemed scummy?
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2 minutes ago, charlie_ said:
Tbh I was planning on switching onto Makaze earlier today once they were around to pressure, but their recent posting has been kind of good.
##Vote: @Rapier
Their recent posting around Shinori feels pretty inconsistent. The criticism of Shinori for being defensive vs me and then admitting to have not really read the contents of that post isn't great, and then their stance change feels very abrupt:
Shinori didn't post a ton between these two posts, so this feels like a bit of a weird development? I tried looking and couldn't find any other place where Rapier said Shinori's content had improved so this feels kinda like he's appeasing Shinori when they got pushback, because this opinion wasn't really present in their posts before. I'm also scratching my head a bit at Shinori's talk with me improving Rapier's view on him when they were criticising it? It feels like a mess.I have 5 people I wouldn't vote and everyone else is nulltown-kinda scummy. I definitely don't have a PoE yet.
who are those 5 people
a simple one liner list like mine should be fine
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Just now, BBM said:
well as soon as you gave reasons for finding me suspicious I responded to them. you said something earlier like "i stop challenging my scumreads and focus on just convincing other people" but it didn't even feel earlier like you were trying to do the latter. if anything you explicitly said you weren't trying to do the latter.
I'm not really following,
But I don't think we are going anywhere with that anyway
I'm more interested in who you find the worst on the marth wagon and who is being the most opportunistic vs starting it
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3 minutes ago, BBM said:
could probably be doing a better job asking questions but the difference between me and you (prior to this post) is I was actually giving reasons for my vibes instead of just stating them for my own benefit. also, if i list stuff i dont like about someone, they're going to respond to it regardless of whether i put a ? at the end, particularly if i vote them
>looks at how people have treated me
I don't think this is the case -
Playing things closer to my chest feels like the play here.
@charlie_ Can you give a quick list of your PoE?
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Just now, j00 said:
So "buddying"?
pocketing could also mean agreeing with someone else's reads and refers specifically to mafia trying to get townread by a specific town player, while buddying sounds more to me like scum/scum townreading
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2 minutes ago, Makaze said:
i was having the same question
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Comfortable putting these people as town:
CT075 (Pure tone reads and internal dialogue that makes sense to me)
Boron (Still have no reason to question it, except for one thing: Casual shielding and lack of commitment, gets in the middle of questioning other people like when they said Rapier was likely to forge things)
Rapier (Believable reasoning, some tonal issues but that seems like a Rapier thing)
Weapons (At least one post that felt hard to fake to me)
Percivale (I can't remember exactly why at the moment)
Null but feels pretty good about:
j00
Not convinced about, but have reasons to avoid eliminating:
Refa
Shinori
BT.
Snike
People squarely in the PoE:
BBM
Bluedoom
Elieson
Prims
I'm forgetting like half of the people unless I happened to remember anyone, they are in the PoE by defaultforget* things, not forge things
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2 minutes ago, j00 said:
what does "pocketing" mean
doing something with the express intention of being townread by a specific person, e.g. by having a TMI but well reasoned townread of someone who is in the PoE
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1 minute ago, CT075 said:
serenes forest why is my font double sized
i was having the same question
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Comfortable putting these people as town:
CT075 (Pure tone reads and internal dialogue that makes sense to me)
Boron (Still have no reason to question it, except for one thing: Casual shielding and lack of commitment, gets in the middle of questioning other people like when they said Rapier was likely to forge things)
Rapier (Believable reasoning, some tonal issues but that seems like a Rapier thing)
Weapons (At least one post that felt hard to fake to me)
Percivale (I can't remember exactly why at the moment)
Null but feels pretty good about:
j00
Not convinced about, but have reasons to avoid eliminating:
Refa
Shinori
BT.
Snike
People squarely in the PoE:
BBM
Bluedoom
Elieson
Prims
I'm forgetting like half of the people unless I happened to remember anyone, they are in the PoE by default -
6 minutes ago, charlie_ said:
Ftr I was thinking while I was catching up that it was weird how basically nobody had Makaze as town but only one person voted for them but I guess that's out of the window now.
I will say I'm not super sure on why Boron is shifting off of Refa now when their read sorta seems the same. Can you explain why Makaze is higher priority for you now because it feels like a bit of a toss-up.
Makaze, are you caught up? If so I would like to hear what your latest BBM thoughts are, and also do you have any opinion on the rest of Snike's content? (Particularly the post where you think he could've tried to pocket you, which without looking I am guessing was the spoilered wallpost?)
I am not able to read anything but scum from BBM, but I am still not able to articulate why, and I feel like any case that I make will be tuned out in the noise and written off as tunneling.
A brief summary, I'll just post his entire ISO, and explain what I'm seeing (or not seeing).
GDI I hate this websiteCan't multiquote if my life depeneded on it
BBM opened with a nonsense vote, innocent enough.
Followed with asking why I think he's scum. I replied, he didn't.
Next action was a vote on Prims for how they pushed me for my SK hunting. They didn't comment on whether my SK hunting was weird directly. The way they've treated me alignment as unimportant or a given was pinging from post 1. More of that here.
Next he's fine with my posting random alignment claims. Noncommittal on Shinori.
After Prims vote is "fine ig", switches to Snike. In the middle of the Snike post, where he votes for Snike, it's actually just a defense of Marth. All the while, BBM has not talked to or interacted directly with Marth. Associative pings.
On the Snike vote, it feels toothless. No talking to Snike, unlike me and Prims. Are these pressure votes? Is there any actual pressure before he recants it? What is "fine"? How real was this interaction?
Otherwise, a lot of the complaints leveled at me also apply to BBM, and while it seems dumb to say that it's only okay when I do it, I'm feeling like BBM is saying he doesn't like certain posts instead of stating his actual reads of the players.
Overall, he's waffling hard.
@BBM Who did you mean by "on the marth wagon", and which votes do you find the most suspect?18 hours ago, BBM said:##vote: @Makaze for having a bad vote script that put rapier as voting undefined
18 hours ago, BBM said:Why do you think I'm scum makaze?
15 hours ago, BBM said:i went to watch like two episodes of tv and you guys put up 5 pages of posts... sf mafia is BACK
##Unvote, ##Vote: @Prims
this is what I feel most strongly about atm. we're all rusty blah blah blah but I just don't feel like Prims was trying to make anything happen. If Prims found makaze randomly bringing up SK a bit weird, I would expect Prims to try and push him a bit more about it just to try get more of a reaction, even if he didn't actually find makaze's actions that scummy. instead, Prims chose to just restate an RVS reason for voting Shinori multiple times. feels lazy to me and like he was posting for the sake of it
I'm not gonna lie a lot of the other posts in the interim just blended together other than makaze voting me so I'll reread them to try and pick some more opinions out. my first thought is that a slightly smaller game might have been better to ease back into things lmao
@Makaze your list of people who aren't aligned, does that include that those people aren't town/town, or are you specifically looking for whether or not they're scum/scum?
14 hours ago, BBM said:that's fair i did not pay attention to a single second of champs 😌 but lol for all of prims's posts about shinori being scum with refuge in audacity it seems he's the one doing it... i don't really think this is leading anywhere fruitful for now though since prims seems committed to waiting for other people before posting anymore content, so i'm going to sleep and try to figure out makaze's iso script tomorrow once other people have posted more.
with makaze i think im fine with him posting the random alignment declarations off random one liners. not that reads can't change but if he's scum it'll be hard to keep that up for more than a day or two
7 hours ago, BBM said:Can we please stop doing this thing where if someone leaves the thread for a few hours people start getting mad about it? This is specifically directed at Boron for being snippy that people voted her and left, but people were doing that about me earlier too. I know it's frustrating to not get to defend yourself or pursue your scumread more right away, but we all have more stuff to do now than 5 years ago. So this is a warning that I won't be back after this for a few hours
Prims' post is fine I guess. I feel like we've had this argument before about how easy/hard it is for scum to change their minds later but idk I think it's hard to do in a way that seems natural so I don't agree with that part of it. I do agree about the part about it being weird that Makaze finds it scummier that we don't scumread him back though. I'm just not quite feeling Makaze yet though.
However @Makaze we're literally like 12 hours into the game. Why did you see it necessary to vote Marth to "consolidate"? I get the part about not wanting to vote me for now, but after all your posts to that point, voting Marth there sucked. Consolidating on pure RVS wagons is one thing but I think once wagons become real, doing it for the sake of it sucks. Not all townies are cool under pressure and just piling on votes is more likely to lead to confirmation bias where they start acting more erratic under the pressure and then you feel more confident about it
Snike vote is good. I really don't understand why people find Marth to be scummy. I'm not town reading him or anything but it's just whatever to me. Out of all the Marth votes, Snike's is by far the worst. In addition to what Prims said about Snike picking the easiest target, yes making a full reads post this early is useless, but Marth was hardly the only one doing it. Almost everyone in the thread at that point was giving a bunch of "leaning X" posts off small vibes. Also he's scummier for not being waffly and for trying to solve the game? How does that make any sense?
##Unvote, ##vote: @Snike
7 hours ago, BBM said:Some other quick stray thoughts:
I didn't say this explicitly earlier but the thing that pinged me most early other than Prims was weapons, because I felt his initial reason for voting prims was good and then he backed off it super fast. It gave me vibes of scum distancing themselves early without actually committing to a push. That being said prims has allayed my suspicions, so I don't know if this is alignment indicative if prims is town. Still haven't cared much for his posts though. I would have liked to see him come back to respond to my question before I dropped the prims vote, alas
Didn't like Cam's first post. Felt like a lot of commentary without opinions and no vote. He was drunk so I'll give him a pass for now though I'm not sure if he's legal age to drink...
3 hours ago, BBM said:I do find him kind of suspicious but if I'm being honest I'm giving myself a higher bar for voting Makaze because I don't agree with his style at all and also I want to be sure before getting into a Thunderdome TM. like j00 said I think it will become easier to suss him out with more flipped interactions. I find his marth vote quite bad though because if he just deathtunnelled me on vibes at least I'd respect it a bit more. voting player B cuz they fit with player A being scum when player A hasn't even flipped yet sucks
I tried reading Marth again and still not seeing it. I then read the votes of all the people who were voting him, and I actually find Rapier's kind of bad. his original vote there was fine, but after that I feel like he's been parking it there and hasn't actually posted much about him since then. also reading some of his other stuff more closely, he put out a list post that on everyone in the thread to that point and basically called everyone scum or leaning scum outside of two people who he wanted to be more active. I know I said I liked Rapier earlier but I think I was being too easy cuz I'm used to him flaking and felt that as scum he would be more lurky as opposed to tryhard, but i don't feel that town would be finding so much stuff about everyone
I'll wait for snike to post more but the stuff he chose to cover so far doesn't impress me.
2 hours ago, BBM said:@Rapier i think this is the post I really took issue with where more than half the players were scum/leaning scum/sliding towards scum.
idk tho in hindsight I feel like in my endeavour to find scum on the Marth wagon I've basically found everyone on it scummy, which is equally unlikely
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2 hours ago, Elieson said:
Good morning. I started reading the game when it was at 5 pages. Took my dog out for a walk, then dozed off when i got back in. It's been a long two weeks filled with moving and back pain. Feeling good today.
IDK why my post lost the Makaze post that was talking about an SK but this one stuck so i'm just rolling with it. Makaze bringing up an SK this early and actually considering a read or more around it seems weird. Sounds like fear-mongering. I'm with Prims here; feels weird. Noting for later.
I'm actually agreeing with Rapier here too. It piggybacks Prims' point about Makaze producing content that feels off/forced.
I WAS NOT ACTUALLY TYPING BTW, I was just in here.
See, I'm vibing BBM Mafia; something just feels off but I haven't ISO'd him because I'm waiting until the day is about 1/2 done before I start doing ISOs (also because I am lazy/tired and haven't set up the ISO script yet).
I don't remember why this was multi-quoted but I'm not deleting it because I wanna come back to it and reference it later.
##Vote @Makaze
I admittedly have not read pages 10/11 because this light-mode interface is murdering my eyes, but out of everything I've read thus far, Makaze feels more forced in what they're putting out. Casual Townread on Prims and Boron and Refa. Scum vibes on BBM. Rapier, I can't figure out, because if my old man memory serves correct, every read I've had on Rapier in my lifetime has been backwards and I'm not interested in trying to make sense of that later. Shinori being sarcastic reeks of town too; There's attitude sarcasm and there's complaining sarcasm; Shinori's exhibiting the latter, and I don't see that as scummy.
Which posts stuck out to you as forced, and/or who helped convinced that they were?
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18 minutes ago, Refa said:
@Bluedoom @j00 I keep reading that I’m active lurking, I think you should link posts where I’m not actively pressuring people or working on a read. It should be easy to do if you’re right and there’s no reason not too!
@Rapier You never answered my question from before. Also I never voted Shinori nor have I even scumread Shinori (Snike mentioned this too, very confusing) so not sure where you’re getting that from. I feel like you’re not really reading my posts. What makes Elieson’s Makaze read stuck in RVS compared to your Makaze read?
@Makaze I literally asked you the question right after said I don’t get it. That means I don’t understand the thought process and want an answer to determine if there’s scum intent or not. If I stop pushing someone or am satisfied with their responses, you should know where my read is at without me explicitly saying it. My problem with you is not your reads themselves but how you’re going about pursuing them. Its fine to gutread people but your interactions do not read like you pursuing those reads.
Boron, I don’t like how all of your scumreads are because people lack presence. Im fine with your town/null reads but your actual pressure this game doesn’t feel genuine to me. Itd be one thing if you were struggling to get reads but Im not getting that impression from you.
Had to do some soul searching here because I feel like most of j00s content has also been town/null reads but the actual scumreads themselves I can understand more. So I think that’s what differentiates a player who bothers me and a player who doesn’t.
Here’s where my head is at the moment:
-I’m feeling better about Bluedoom. Earlier it felt like all of his content was laser focused on a specific interaction and his other reads since then have been deece.
-Cam’s one post was fine but I really don’t like the Makaze scumread into not voting Makaze
-Makaze is sus. He has reads but he’s not pushing them or really meaningfully interacting besides explaining his reads.
-Shinori I get the cases on but I am not reading scum intent there? It feels like his earlier actions are scummy but not his thought process. I like his Rapier case honestly. I probably have to reread Rapier because of it though so thanks for nothing Shinori. Wouldn’t vote.
-I don’t think Snike is scum. The things people are calling him out for are things like three other people have done in this thread and everyone is fine with those. I’d like to know the difference between these reads and what makes Snike look worse.
-I’m not bothered by Boron not voting me initially, I think that’s a weak point.
I do not feel a need to pressure my scum reads, because I do not believe that will reveal anything if they have not already. It should be clear by now, including to me, that none of my claims about having strong reads are being taken seriously, so I'd rather try to find the town while the rest of you catch up to me since I am probably right anyway.I think there might be a disconnect between how I approach and how literally anyone else approaches it, and this is one of things I have to improve on compared to the last game too, and that's that when I decide to scum read someone, I write off all of their actions and focus on convincing everyone else, instead of challenging my scumread directly.Now that you mention it I have had a habit of not interacting with people unless I am town reading themI am not sure how to approach this game, but I am going to start interacting, so thanks for prodding
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1 minute ago, Sunwoo said:
I wasn't sure what to think about Makaze earlier in the game because the one game I remember playing with him, he did a bunch of things that felt scummy to me and was actually town. Reading back on his content though has made me realize how little substance he's actually had. The only thing he really seems to have committed to is "BBM is scum" for ... /reasons/, I suppose? His Marth vote also feels like it wants to be a BBM vote. His reasons for voting Marth are "all kinds of weirdness" (like what?) and "could be scum buddies with BBM". Yeah, uh, I could see Makaze being scum.
The BBM stuff also doesn't really contribute to the game and move it along either, because there are no actual reasons for it that someone else can go look at and decide for themselves whether they agree or not, but it can /look/ like they're contributing because they're still technically posting stuff about the game and its players.
You know what, it's definitely worse than I initially thought.
##Unvote
##Vote: @Makaze
Not contributing is one thing. But making it look like you are when you're not is a whole other thing.
PEDIT: Makaze's post above me kinda reinforces why I'm voting him, so.
Still have a scum read on Refa, they haven't really done anything to change my mind. I have no idea what their actual scum reads are currently besides still parking a vote on me. Their last post doesn't really give any actual thoughts except justifying their vote on me and that they wouldn't vote Marth despite not feeling great about him and not scum reading Shinori. I realize they haven't read everything, but even so it bothers me that I literally have no idea how they feel about other people they've asked questions/replied to.
Getting massively annoyed with Marth, so I think I'm going to step back from this until I'm less irritated. More interesting stuff has happened now that more people have posted, and considering that my biggest issue with him now is the tunnel vision and abrupt flip on me I think it's best if I look at that at a time when I'm less cranky.
I'm not gonna lie, I've got nothing for Elie and SB because I've been trying to reply to other stuff and their posts never really stuck in my brain. Throwing Elie and SB into the "read later" pile with Snike.
Is there a specific type of content that would help you relate to me?
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5 minutes ago, WeaponsofMassConstruction said:
@Bluedoom what do you think you'd be doing differently if you were scum?
Has this question ever led to anything?
SpoilerGoing to go on about a pet peeve for a minute.
IME this kind of question is just a buffer that is used for interactions between scumbuddies or just as commonly a bad question from a town that lets someone opine about their own meta for free, and leads to more neutral reads based on philosophy instead of stuff about this game.
Pretty much the only answer that could be helpful here is a really bad sounding "I wouldn't do anything different as scum because this is how I play", and only the dumbest of players will fall for that even on their worst day.
I'm not saying that asking this has anything to do with your alignment, but I don't think you should take this kind of question as mattering to your opinion, and I think you should try to pin them down on actions they are actually taking.
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52 minutes ago, Refa said:
@CT075 Who are you scumreading? My impression from your initial post was that you were scumreading Makaze, but then you didn't vote them which is uh kinda sus.
@Makaze I don't get your BBM reasoning. I'm not talking about the vibes part, or the logic itself, but rather what are you getting out of your vote? If you're just voting someone and you don't think anyone will follow you on it, what exactly is it achieving? Why is Bluedoom bothering you?
@Snike I don't get the logic behind your Makaze read. You mentioned you don't know his meta, but then metaread him anyways. Why? Also you're good about the gender thing, no worries.
@Shinori Regarding your content, it reads as reflexive over defensive to me. It doesn't feel like you post unless it's about you, even though you're not being defensive. I am not scumreading you, but I can get where Charlie's case is coming from. If you think Charlie is terrible for attacking Marth, what about all of the other people (AKA the Marth wagon and then some) who are attacking him for his reason?
@charlie_ Why does the Marth change bother you? I don't believe you've mentioned your thoughts on me/Boron, how does that play into it?
@Prims I get why you'd vote Shinori there, that part doesn't bother me. I don't get how your Makaze read was "this is kinda sus" but ended up NAI. Otherwise I'm vibing with your Makaze reasoning. I don't get why Snike's Marth case pinged you when it reads similar to Charlie's and Boron's to me. This question goes for @BBM too.
@Percivalé I don't get your thought process. You said Town!Weapons is an easy vote for scum and then later say you were about to vote Weapons. I don't really get why you're bothered by Marth too.
Boron (because she asked not to be pinged) - I don't know what you were expecting. Since I've last posted, all you've done is vote me, with your reasoning being that I'm forgettable and that you didn't like my vote on you, and defend your vote on me. You have not done anything else to make think I voted wrong. I think you having reads on me/Marth in isolation is fine. What's bothering me there is more the lack of self awareness. You're agreeing with Marth's case on me, but you're scumreading him because his cases are lackluster.
I'm in a weird position where I don't feel great about Marth but I don't vibe with any of the cases on him. I don't think I'd vote him.
Didn't read past Via because I have to go but wanted to post this now to get it out there.
Do you have a specific question would help you understand, or are you just saying you don't get things? You've said you don't get things multiple times, but I'd like to see the conclusions you draw from not getting something, and expect some fruition after getting some answers.
I don't have any solid reasoning for BBM, but I do have a gut feeling, and it is actually based on their first post. They still do not seem to be making any moves and are holding off judgment for later, which while objectively NAI, I would expect some kind of read of how I reacted to their RVS and how I have been tunneling them to have formed. I'm currently reading their distancing from me as recognizing that I cannot be pocketed easily and refusing to engage with an impossible situation, which makes sense as a preservation strategy, but it doesn't explain why they can't form a read on me on top of it.
Snike's opinion on me feels like it could be an attempt to pocket, but he is right about my meta. If anything it feels too easy, like he isn't seriously considering me. Pocket denied, but he could just be right about me, and we'll see if his reads make sense otherwise.
I'm too lazy to explain why I'm scumreading Bluedoom, but I've been getting weird vibes and felt that their reads were not genuine since they first posted, and they have felt like an opportunist who is making moves rather than forming opinions
That's all I've got for the time being, ping me if i'm missing something -
Automated Votecount
Sunwoo (3): WeaponsofMassConstruction (56), Refa (56), Bluedoom (60)
Prims (2): Shinori (120), BBM (28)
BBM (1): Rapier (92)
Bluedoom (1): Makaze (232)
Rapier (1): Snike (4)
Refa (1): Sunwoo (84)
Shinori (1): Prims (49)
Not voting (3): Iris (4), Fire Emblem Fan (8), CT075 (8)
And with that, I should stop spamming and go to bedI will re-evaluate tomorrow and stop posting until people start to catch up to my postcount, or at least a third of it
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Just now, Sunwoo said:
???
Makaze, I really think you're tunneling on BBM for questionable reasons.
I don't get why his RVS vote on you is forced, and he voted for Prims after he returned to the thread a few pages later. It also doesn't help your case that you've been harping on BBM ever since his RVS vote ...
I am willing to table it for now. if I am right, it is for the wrong reasons, so I have no reason to keep pressuring.
You don't need to agree with me, but I'm confident that I'll be right about it in the end.
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##Vote @Bluedoom
I still want BBM gone, and the best rational explanation I can give is that their entrance felt... Off.
Reading back, it was extremely nebulous. The thinnest of reads. Now I'm deathtunneling it, and I couldn't really tell you why, except for this: BBM has not questioned my alignment. Their questions to me were meaningless (the aligned thing for example) and they have not meaningfully contributed. They are coasting on their RVS vote, which felt off to me probably because of OMGUS, but also because it felt forced, like they had to come up with an RVS vote and they picked that for the sake of having one. I think BBM was intentionally avoiding a vote that meant something, which could be me reading too much into it, but I'm comfortable doing that at this point.
Bluedoom has all kinds of weirdness and fits in with a BBM scumteam, so I'm consolidating there until something better becomes available.
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3 minutes ago, CT075 said:
okay so Iris really managed to start the game on the one day where i had to spend six hours dealing with shitty deploy scripts and also when i had friends from out of town
this thread has 9 fucking pages that i have skimmed (while i am currently intoxicated), but i'm posting to say that i do exist
some (very incomplete) thoughts (god i hate rich text):
I think we'd all benefit from Makaze articulating a little more. Shit like "BBM gives scum vibes" -- in what way? Is this a gut feeling? Is it because of his wording? Refa/Boron aren't aligned, because... vibes? Setting aside whether this is scum (see next paragraph), this is just unhelpful; am I just supposed to hear the words "scum vibes" and immediately think "oh yeah, BBM does have scum vibes! I'm voting now!" (addendum: has it been too long to make a "BBM always has scum vibes" joke? was BBM a person people said this about?)
Gun to my head, I would say that making these kinds of no-details posts are cheap and easy to fake "contribution" (whatever that means), which is more indicative of scum intent than not, but I also hold the opinion that bad town play often overlaps with scum play on paper, especially in these early stages, and Makaze isn't even the only person guilty of this ("vibes first reasoning later" indeed).
On the flip side, I really like this Marth vote by Rapier; it would have been easy to park a vote on BBM and make noncommittal comments on the rest of the game state but the logic is relatively specific (nitpicky, would like more detail on what specific opinions Marth has that are contradictory, but also maybe they were just said earlier and I'm not remembering).I don't hate this explanation by Weapons, can you go into more detail about what actions in particular tend to leak townliness, and what Boron has actually said that does not do this (or, otherwise, can you expand a little on someone who has done this?)
uhh what else, I think this post saying, quote, "I'm also just likely to forget that I had them with the next post that I read" is making excuses for something that I don't even think has happened yet? like, the claim "it's important that I write down my reads early and often so I can keep a record of the progression of my thoughts" as a response to "posting alignment reads is a bad idea" is well and good, but, your literal next sentence says that you expect them to change? How am I supposed to trust your "town ping" comments if this is the case?
I am an almost 100% gut instinct player until the late game, and even if I try to make a real explanation for my instincts, it is probably not the actual reason because I just tried to justify it logically which is just a possible reason I have the feeling instead of the actual thing which is just intuition.
My read on BBM is 100% vibes. I am still willing to die on it.
I do not expect to be sheeped based on that argument. I am not going to try and make up a case which can't exist with so little content anyway. I am confident that if I am right, actual reasons will come out of their content, and I don't need to have the evidence to be right from post #1.
On the rest of it: When it comes to complicated stuff like "X/Y are unaligned", I find that my reasons for believing this are pretty accurate, and that those reads tend to happen in real time the first time I read them. If I don't take notes, I may well get caught up in the thread and forget I even made those associations, and I have trouble keeping my thoughts straight with my feelings when it comes to those kinds of things. I'd also like to have some kind of timing tied to when I had the ideas so that I can remember why I had that idea in the first place instead of trying to think of why I had such a complicated worldview when I do try to actually explain something later in the game.
In other words, I need to show my work for myself as much as anyone, or I won't be able to follow my own thought process.
Another way to look at it is that I'm not trying to make anyone believe that I'm town, nor am I trying to make a case. I am trying to solve the game out loud.
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Automated Votecount
Sunwoo (3): WeaponsofMassConstruction, Refa, Bluedoom
Bluedoom (1): Rapier
BBM (1): Makaze
Rapier (1): Snike
Refa (1): Sunwoo
Elieson (1): Shinori
Shinori (1): Prims
Prims (1): BBM
Not voting (2): Iris, Fire Emblem FanGot it. @BBM Your post had a mention after your vote, which broke it. Fixed now.
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FWIW Both the ISO and Votal scripts have gotten much needed upgrades since start of the thread. If you plan to use them you'll want to reinstall.
(Mafia Sucks) SF Mafia: The Revival - GAME OVER, Town Wins!
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Posted
>Tells people that any case I post is going to get called out for being made up because the reasons are not why the read started
>I try to explain my reads with reasoning using stuff that happened after I had them as scum
>It happens exactly as I expect
The only way you guys are going to see that I'm right is if I force something more damning than "because Makaze said so" to come out in the thread. My options as someone who is 100% confident with something that no one else can relate to are to believe it quietly, or believe it loudly.
All of my cases in this game are going to be fabricated until we have some real evidence, such as mechanics or associatives, and I do not expect to live to endgame unless I am usefully wrong the whole game.
You will not be able to read me based on my case quality; you will have to read me based off of my accuracy