Makaze

Oh yeah the mafia would totally shoot someone who not only wouldn't die the same night they shot, but also sees who targeted them the night that they do it. Like how Also the scum counter to this was the strongman I think that Omega is the ITP and Shinorii was how the hosts balanced it

yeah the gimmick got me hardcore when I thought that Kill/Kirsche died last night (it was the role's name)

We can also rule out Kirsche if Omega flips Mafia.

So that's not the problem. The problem is he forgot HIS OWN CLAIM for the purpose of a towncred AtE.

I asked Omega to claim himself later and he did it himself when I pushed him to. See here:

I am saying something more sinister. He knows that claim, but he was making an AtE, and forgot it conflicted with his claim. IMO he would never say this without meaning it if his defense was genuine, and there is no way in hell he could reasonably be "trying to draw the NK" as both a delayer AND self-watcher. Scum would have to be idiots to shoot him.

@EvanManManMan Can you explain in detail exactly what you role does and who you've targeted and why? Any notes Gaius left would be helpful as well. I know you already said but I'm feeling lazy after all this casing.

It had to be done.

That is alright. Your role could not have killed Shinori.

I forgot to mention it but Sully's responses to my questions read definitely town and I have no more reasons to scumread him. He cannot be Mafia with anyone else in my PoE.

I have a good reason and it's related to what my role is.

The real scumtell from Snike was how he almost without warning sheeped my case on Sully, and today has not made any attempt to shade this read after I cased him, but instead, just accepted it for granted. How Snike and Satsuma both reacted to my Sully case (all the way up to EoD): This is where Snike asks Omega "Aren't you a Watcher?". This makes Omega very rarely scum with him. Read the first post by Marth, then read the bottom quote, which is just Omega's big defense zoomed in. Look for anything that seems off. Read it aloud if that helps. ALERT: I just read Snike's defense post and want to rescind my comment about him not accepting that he is being lynched. I think that Omega has to be Mafia or ITP and we are 100% safe to lynch there. Snike I am feeling less sure about. However, I think that @Snike and @SatsumaFSoysoy should give their opinions on who is the Mafia or ITP if we are both town. Unless a vig decides to claim, we definitely have an ITP, and there has to be at least one other Mafia in the game. I believe it cannot be Walrein. I just can't believe he would read so town if he was Mafia. Calling for a Mass Claim (besides me) especially for players @Walrein and @Refa. We are at a point where a vig coming out solves this scenario, so I see no reason not to claim, because even if we have a vig AND an ITP, I don't see a why you couldn't NK them. We always lynch Omega and vig Snike in this case because of Omega's claim. I am changing my vote and proposed wagon to Omega despite scumreading Snike because of this and Kill's meta reasoning. ##Vote Omega

I'm kind of shook that no one has commented on my post about Omega.

Snike has done some gas lighting and that has been all of his defenses and cases, including his association defenses with Shinori. When I was going hard at Mack and Snike to get them to see it was a T/T situation (I believed at the time) I mentioned that tonally, Snike's defenses were bad and completely unconvincing. I said I liked his reasoning, but there were a lot of things that didn't sit right with me, specifically with the way he responded to me. I figured out why. Posts like this: Are scattered throughout his ISO. He made a similar defense of Omega, which is a part of why I read him as possible scum with Snike. Let me make this clear: I don't think Snike would say things in quite this way if he were town. I think he would tell me how it is, not ask me if I "really think" that this has happened. He is trying to get me to doubt my own sanity instead of presenting what he thinks happened, and that is a extremely scummy. He could do it as town, but I do not think I would get the same terribad vibe I got from it this time. This is a dishonest way oof making the case that is used by the guilty to make their victims feel like they are crazy and they can't be reasonable unless they question it. I want to point that Snike is defending Athena here, which kind of supports Refa's case. He also cases Athena pretty hard when Shinori was doing it and I think that Shinori sheeped Snike's argument for why athen is mafia, so that seems to be a world where if Snike flips mafia, athena is cleared by almost every scum shading him. I think this is gas lighting. I wouldn't think this if he went on to make a real case, but I don't remember him doing so, and he dropped the topic when I didn't budge on my read. I think it is a 100% scum tell that instead of continuing in this logic and willingly taking the lynch, or even mentioning that he is willing to, makes Snike look very bad, and I think he is caught and is just asking town to expand their PoE insread of trying to catch the Mafia, which I think he would be doing if he really felt that eating a lynch was the right thing for the town.

I think that yes, and I think Omega was YOLOing if he is Mafia, and did not have the full support of his scum team. But I think that rolewise me makes way more sense as SK. My read on athena is going to take some time so I'll do a thorough reread after I finish casing Snike.

If Snike flips scum, it seems incredibly unlikely that Athena is mafia. Reasoning: Shinori hardcore pushed the wagon. His first post about athena: This post is bad.

l m a o alette is never mafia she literally forgot flipped scum when answering me, and said that maybe shinori was killed by the mafia

I buy this claim.

This is a hell of a good post and I give you props if you are Mafia. @Refa I think it is possible that Shinori reacted that way as theatre to justify Omega's lack of reasons for scumreading half the team. I think that hard bussing and power wolfing are not outside of Omega's wolf range and that is why he suspected me for the same things. With regard to LG, I think that any of these worlds are possible: 1. Snike is the last Mafia and EvilManManMan is ITP. 2. Snike is Mafia and Omega is the ITP. 3. Snike and Omega are the last Mafia and EvilManManMan is the ITP. 4. Snike and Omega are the last Mafia and there is a town vig who has not claimed. 5. Snike is the single last Mafia and there is a town vig who has not claimed.

In my defense you were Mafia according to Weapons.

PS I meant Kirsche could not be mafia, lg wasn't cleared by Shinori's list. my b

Snike post draft: ----- Let me start with what I think can happen. If I say something cannot happen, I believe it is not possible, and that you should seriously consider it to be a impossible in this game. These read are based solely on the behavior of the flipped scum and I have been careful not to read into the behavior of non-flipped players. That means that your reasons are not conclusive, but how consistent your reads are with the way you treat others might. These people cannot be Mafia. athena cannot be Mafia. Kirsche/Killthestory cannot be Mafia. Bibbons/Kaoz cannot be Mafia. Alette cannot be Mafia. Refa cannot be Mafia. eclipse/Baldrick cannot be Mafia. Nightmare/Mackc2 cannot be Mafia. Lord Gaius cannot be Mafia. I will explain this in depth. Walrein can be Mafia, but I townread him hardcore. Not willing to budge. Via can be Mafia, but is not. He's just not. Fable can be Mafia, but I tone read him town. Not as strong as Walrein, so I'll reread. People who could have been mafia and I have misgivings about: Snike+Satsuma can be Mafia, but not with Sully or LG. Sully can be Mafia, but not with Snike or Lord Gaius. Omega can be Mafia, with anyone. I am not going to read Omega right now, because I have all of their posts in my mind and know them fully as a case. I believe there is a logical world where the hard bussed on entry into the game. This is supported by the complete lack of follow up my Omega on any of these cases, and also the entire scumteam who was outed not making a single scumread his way because of it. More on this below. I first went and reread Fable, and everything still looks good on him. He has not been incredibly active, but all of his stuff reads town, and I just buy it, even if he's not being a game changer. Notable posts: At this point I was sure Fable was town, because I don't see JB interacting with him this way as Mafia, and tonally, he's just pure. Now to Snike. As far as I can tell, this is one of the only time Shinori gives a read on Snike. It is a strong town read. He has not spoken to Snike at this time, and he doesn't speak to him after. He mentions Snike's posts in passing but that's all. Unrelated, but I'm also ISOing Shinori while doing this, and noticed that Shinori openly challenged Sully for his claim/read. I think if this was a buddy, he'd at least show some calm in his response. This post hard clears Kirsche. I had been willing to consider Kirsche before this reread but there is no world where Shinori scumleans a third teammate especially when they are both up for the lynch. When he later says he dislikes the Junko lynch but not the Kirsche one, this is hard clearing, and I am embarrassed for ever believing a Kirsche as mafia read. The way he reacts to Sully's claim yet again suggests this is not shading and he is making a show of how ridiculous it is, but does not scumread Sully for it. This makes Sully look good. The bolded red is JB defending Snike and Junko. This is the only post in JB's entire ISO where Snike is mentioned. Shinori tags Sully and asks him questions, the motivation of which is to get towncred and make Sully feel like he is solving. I think he would not do this to his Mafia buddies. In fact, I know he does not. Shinori tags and questions almost all of his town and scum reads, except for the actual Mafia. He questions Kirsche, but not Junko, on the Junko wagon. He lists JB as mafia, but he never tags or questions him. I don't believe Shinori does anything he doesn't have to do aside from claim to be scumreading them. Sully is town. Then he makes a sideways comment about Snike. This is possible buddying and I noticed that he never questions Snike, ever. This post is just one example where he questions all of his town reads except for Snike. Shinori never says this to Kirsche if they are both Mafia. Firstly noting that Snike is tagging his scumreads and giving lots of comments on them as he goes. This is an otherwise null post. This looks very bad on Marth/Omega if Snike is Mafia, from my POV. In addition, I want to point out that Snike does almost the exact thing to Shinori that Shinori did to him. Going to paste both statements for comparison. Shinori: "Agree with mostly all of Snike's case on Athena and I'm actually up for that lynch personally. Also I like Snike's posts a whole hell of a lot." Snike: "I agree with shinori that the kirsche accusation is unfair; tbh I think shinori's one of the townier players rn." At this point Snike has not mentioned, questioned, or otherwise interacted with Shinori. Neither has Shinori interacted with him. Shinori further shading Sully for his Kirsche vote. Red notable. Voted JB with a noted "until" for Mackc slot. Said null, but was sheeping BBM on JB. Argued Shinori town based on Meta without citing examples. Literally every other read of his has a question or example based on the actual content. His reads on the two Mafia are not direct and he has no interaction with either of them at this time. Hasn't questined JB either. Snike tells Mackc2 to be on Kaoz. This pops up very quickly as weird. See why: See the level of thought that went into this Kirsche read. As of now (in this post) I am editing post-seeing flips, so I know this was a post about a town that he was scumreading. Firstly, hardcore waffling and explanation of thoughts. Looking forward to Shinori questions. Onward. No Shinori questions. Still no interaction. I believe that based on Snike's overall play, he really should have at least @mentioned Shinori when he made this. I believe he knew he didn't need to bother. Also, this particular style of commenting on a player is unique in this game. He has not done such a notes for anyone, and all of his reads on another are much more organic and not contrived. This reads very badly to me since he has 0 questions for him: I think Snike realized he hasn't interacted with Shinori and did this to make up for the hole. This entire post is scummy. The fact that it's Satsuma making it is worse. I am seriously thinking Snike is Mafia. This is a very, very bad vote. At this time he still has not commented to, mentioned, questioned, or otherwise interacted with JB in any way -- and this argument for his vote comes extremely late, and has no organic progression from his previous reads. He is being opportunistic. This looks very bad. JB is buddying Snike while trying to pocket the person Snike is interrogating. JB makes no attempt to attack Snike in this, despite the bad vote. Now there's this case. I will get to more on tone for Snike when I can; my lunch hour has ended. ##Vote Snike

I don't think it's necessary And I don't think the placement can answer my questions In that case I will get back to my updated reads list and casing.

this is correct, lg did specifically claim a vig