Green Poet

Does it seem that way? Sorry if I'm being too insistent.But if you're agreeing that your ED1 read on Prims has changed, then the reason you're voting me is just for pointing out the flaws in that read? Where's the scum intent in that? And, Manix, are there reasons other than tone that make you think Prims is town?

re: defending Prims These aim to imply that you do not believe Prims to be scummy, which feels artificial because you'd just voted him and the only suggested reason that you think Prims is now town is that his tone's improved in your eyes.You're voting the same as Prims and have dropped your initial argument with him. . . why? Yes, it's ED1 and reads are liable to change quickly, but I don't get the feeling that the change you've shown wrt Prims is natural/very townie.

I blame phoneposting

In the same way, simply saying "your tone is scummy" is hardly worth consideration, since it can be used anywhere to make a case seem like more than it's not. If you're discrediting the rolespec part of your case, an empty accusation about tone being off should be treated as less than that, as it's ambiguous and can be used anywhere and said about anyone.So, to answer your question: you didn't have a good or visible reason to vote Prims. What concerns me more than your claim and this is actually how quickly you've developed a townread on Prims and why you're defending him now. "His tone is better" doesn't tell the rest of us what you're thinking and it's an extremely easy way to justify townreading someone when better reasons aren't there, which is what it looks like you're doing now.

This feels like you're going out of your way to defend a newly-made Prims townread? I'd think that "also," implying that there's more to your aforementioned case, followed by words as few as these could not constitute your strongest reason for voting Prims. Prior to the post in which you voted, you hadn't mentioned tone at all, so how is the number of times "cult recruitment" was mentioned consequential?

I'll probably be heading off soon.. Anyway, If town's doing pointless things for no visible reason, then they're probably more informed and have scum motivations. Why does it strike you as "pointless town" instead? Also, Manix may not have been able to get you lynched just with the argument of tone, but that wasn't actually his his main point of contention with you. ITP recruiter can rarely ever recruit scum on SF, which he called you out on. I also don't see why one would spend a PM on what they consider a joke, as you only have two per day. . . I think Prims is likelier scum than Manix, but that odd claim is still worth considering. ##Unvote ##Vote: Prims

He said this before admitting that he did send the message though, so it wasn't really clear to me if that was really part of what he wrote. Yeah, my bad. I couldn't tell it was a joke until Prims posted the paraphrased message containing both the cult leader claim and the request to out scumbuddies. The way Prims handled admitting that he was the sender still pings me as rather odd, though. He backed off rather quickly, and I don't see why he switched to Refa (guessing it's an RVS vote?) when he disagreed with Manix's choice to claim. Being able to read others' messages does sound like a scummy role, but it's not as though a standard investigative role would be able to tell that Manix had been scumhunting with it, so he wouldn't be under suspicion even if someone tracked him. It's not considered standard to claim solely because your role sounds scummy, is it?

If I have this straight: You sent Manix a PM asking him to join your cult, though you're saying you're not to actually cult leader. If that was the content of the message, then this: doesn't make sense. This reads like you're actually trying to start a 1v1 against Manix, but did you say anything about outing scumbuddies in the PM you sent?

Hold on. . . I'm not following. Did the PM you say you received claim to have been sent by Prims, or are you assuming that it's him based off of in-thread stuff?

##Vote: Refa I mean, really, when was actually the last time he was town?

Hmm, I see. Thanks for the advice, eclipse, BBM and Boron. I'll be sure to consider these the next time a vig claim/extra kill pops up.

/in

I honestly never thought Refa could be scum. . . gotta stop assuming people who neighborize me are town. Sorry that I upset you, Shinori. Between this game and P3M, I've been on your case a lot :<

edited missing wordsThe oversights don't feel genuine. I don't think scum would let him admit to implying that scumchat only works at night, but the lack of scum organization here is pretty consistent with the lack of turbo on either myself or Marth. ##Vote: FFM Placeholder vote until I get back.

You only got the chance to your scumbuddies during D1 in P3M. You already know that scumchats can be posted in during day phases.

Thanks, clipsey. Why's that? And do you think anyone else is scum besides Cam? Theoretically, the only reason I haven't been turbo'ed is because I am scum, in which case I would not be an acceptable target. . . so how do you know that I am? Only myself and scum should know for certain that I am town. I'm reading the post like "my (FFM's) visibly bad play > no access to scumchat > I can't be scum," as opposed to "visibly no access to scumchat > I can't be scum." I can see how the post could read like FFM trying to pretend he doesn't know how scumchats work, but I'd have to be purposely thinking along those lines in reading it. It looks bad, but calling it a lie is a bit much.

10 hours left in phase, if my count is right. Will be heading off soon but I'll be up early to read and vote, if the day/game hasn't ended by then. Should I put down a placeholder vote on FFM? We already know that scum isn't able/wiling to turbo a townie with only one vote on them. Cam's inactivity is rather odd, considering how insistent he was on asking people questions until he got answers throughout the first couple days. That Shin didn't spot him doing anything N1 doesn't mean he can't be scum; mafia goons could exist and Cam could be the ninja, like FFM. Cam's play has read null to me for most of the game, though. From a rolespec-only perspective, Cam is likelier to be town than someone like FFM, but as Euklyd has said repeatedly, we shouldn't be basing our votes solely on rolespec at this point.

Probably reaching the double digits now in how many times my read on Shinori has changed throughout this game. I know, I'm bad at this. I think that scum!Shinori would've just voted me after Marth did. It was a justifiable time to do so and probably would've resulted in getting me lynched. That, and I just realized that SK!Shinori can't exist. . . so him being a 1-shot vig is more likely. I don't think he could be a mafia vig, since his N2 shot on Refa wouldn't have been nulled by Marth's safeguard. I've been townreading Marth for pretty much the entire game and now that we don't know if a hooker exists, he and Shinori aren't likely to be buddies. Going to move my vote somewhere more useful. ##Unvote I think FFM could be scum. It's WIFOMy to imagine that he was advised in scumchat to pretend to think that it was a good idea to claim VT from day start, but the feasibility of this is extended when we consider that a ninja exists, as well as potential mafia goons. Also, FFM's been keeping up with Training Filler (also in LYLO) much more intently than with this game. Granted, he's being mentored and it's a better learning experience and such for him, but I do get the feeling that he's been neglecting Almost OC, which town has no reason to do at this critical junction. Cut by FFM. I don't like the implications of this. How are any of us supposed to know you haven't been speaking in scumchat? More importantly - FFM, who is scum?

I. . . just realized something. The game has to be 4/3 right now because an SK could kill mafia tonight, but that would make it not LYLO. That also means Shinori is close to cleared town. So this: is likely to be correct. Either that, or the mafia isn't as organized as SFMM4's mafia and can't all get online at once to turbo. Or maybe they're going to wait for one more vote on either myself or town!Marth in order to preclude losing the game to an unclaimed Loved.

We didn't have colored, bolded lines at the end of our role PMs detailing what our essential role names were in SFMM4, which is why I didn't bring it up when Darros made that mistake. You should remember; you played in that game as well. Your D2 reads, with the exception of BBM, depended on whether I flipped town or scum. My scumteam guess depended on Marth-Shinori interactions and the existence of a hooker, and not if someone flipped town or scum. They're not comparable. The rest of your case makes sense and I won't argue against it because I realize and agree that I've played poorly/hypocritically for most of this game. Obviously, FMPOV, I have no idea if lynching Shinori would be a mislynch. Though, by your saying this, it looks like you think Shinori's town?

So this game is still on, nice. Scum has had 16 hours to turbo me and haven't done so, so it could be that there isn't a three-man scumteam. Or Marth is actually scum and can't win unless a townie votes me. In any case, what this tells me is that there's no harm in me voting Marth right now even if he is town, because a townie has been voted once already and the game isn't over. ##Vote: Bluedoom Will post more later.

Shinori's uncontested vigshot is still a thing. Marth could be the hooker but fakeclaiming visits to Shinori and Refa is dangerous considering he didn't know what the watcher's claims were yet. Since there's no proven hooker, my Shinori/Marth scumteam theory no longer holds. Alright, sounds good. Not much we can do if scum does pull off a turbo since it's Marth's vote on me and not yours, but at least it's something. Heading off now. In case Marth is town and there's a three-person scumteam. . . well, meh. I'm sorry. I tried.

Shinori, whom out of those three do you think is the likeliest to be scum?

Marth, if there's a three-man scumteam and you're actually town, you know they're going to go for the turbo. Try to anticipate them, because I'm done trying to convince people I'm not scum and that's literally the only way you can save the game from your vote. If any of you have OC leads that could mean anything, now's the time to out it.

Scum!Shinori doesn't need to fake commute. On N2, scum knew that one kill would be all it took to get to LYLO, and so proving N3 actions wouldn't be necessary. Claiming roleblocked means you don't need to have to give any results, either. "IF SCUM HAVE A GOD DAMN ROLE BLOCK THEN WHY BOTHER KILLING ME" So you don't actually know if you got hooked? At the start of the day you told us your action failed, and that ^ leads me to believe you were further informed that you were specifically blocked. If you'd established at the beginning of the phase that you don't know if you were roleblocked, and didn't talk as though you were roleblocked. . . then I obviously wouldn't have assumed that you were roleblocked. Like. . . you realize my case actually depends on whether or not you were blocked, right? Stop assuming I'm trying to twist your words when said words haven't been clear at all. If you're town, work with me.