Prims Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 typically "24 hours, extend to 48 if people haven't been online to send stuff in" works pretty well also yeah blitz the suggestion was only for NOC games Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 I thought Shinori was saying we can have no night talking on OC, I think I mis read sorry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 typically "24 hours, extend to 48 if people haven't been online to send stuff in" works pretty well How is this different from "48 hours or whenever all actions are in" >_> Also [23:14] <Kaoz> regarding the night talk, I suspect that it will change "there's always the night phase" to "there's (probably) always tomorrow".. it's not a problem with rules but with people having a shit mentality [23:16] <Kaoz> I don't mind.. although I would add that the random activity bursts are oftentimes a result of the flip and wouldn't happen during that day because... well, there was no such flip.. I do agree with this line though "if you have rulesets that give people leeway for bad play they don't have much reason to improve" [23:16] <Paperblade> yeah [23:16] <Paperblade> You could argue that [23:16] <Paperblade> if there was no night talk [23:17] <Paperblade> that activity burst would happen during the day [23:18] <Kaoz> it would, but during the next day and not during the current day, and there is not so much of a difference in those scenarios imo.. like, the only real difference is that people might (emphasis on might) vote directly if it was during the day [23:18] <Paperblade> (this is why we should just have unicycle games) [23:18] <Kaoz> (I agree, unicycle all the way) [23:19] <Paperblade> (Xenoblade is unicycle btw) [23:19] <Kaoz> (sounds good) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 a request for future NOC hosts: can we have more games with nighttalk turned off I see people talking about how SF is bad at discussion, but the rulesets used here pretty much accommodate that nighttalk is dumb, people have less reason to talk about their votes, plan ahead and get shit done during the day because "there's always the night phase". sometimes there's even an activity burst at night where people contribute more to the game than they did during the previous day phase which is complete bullshit and shouldn't happen. people should be talking when there's a lynch to be decided on, not when there are scum night actions to be decided on if you have rulesets that give people leeway for bad play they don't have much reason to improve this obviously doesn't apply to OC games, just NOC I'd push for NOC games requiring majority to lynch too but I don't think anybody would support me on that I don't care about nighttalk much, but what I am more concerned about is whether the Mafia can privately communicate with each other during the Day Phase. In another forum, the rule is that they can't, but in SF, they can talk to each other anytime, and from what I can see, that has a much bigger impact on the game than nighttalking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Mafia Daytalk is typically something that varies mod-to-mod, from my experience. I don't think there's an effect on playlevel from keeping it on or off. I prefer it on regardless of skill level (since imo it's the only aspect making scum in NOC fun :bias:), in the same way I'd probably prefer no nighttalk even if I didn't feel it subliminally promoted people to be lazy. However, Mafia Daytalk is a huge advantage to scum, as opposed to nighttalk which leans neutral. I'd personally just let it vary game-to-game. Have mods look at their set-up, then decide whether Mafia Daytalk would be balanced or not if it was turned on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Wait, SF would actually accept no mafia daytalk games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 there's nothing fundamentally wrong with them (in fact it's arguably more balanced in some set-ups) but i don't know the playerbase's actual take Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Wait, SF would actually accept no mafia daytalk games? iunno about everyone else, but I'm not opposed to the idea at all, really. From most flavor standpoints, how could the mafia even talk during the day anyway? But that's flavor, so eh. It'd be a refreshing change. And you'd really have to use the nighttime properly as mafia. But like Prims said, it should be considered on a game by game basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 iunno about everyone else, but I'm not opposed to the idea at all, really. From most flavor standpoints, how could the mafia even talk during the day anyway? But that's flavor, so eh. It'd be a refreshing change. And you'd really have to use the nighttime properly as mafia. But like Prims said, it should be considered on a game by game basis. he doesn't mean the mafia faction (I hope, because if they're not allowed to talk it's very easy to put one and one together) but rather the whole game is not allowed to daytalk and will probably vote in their role PM's or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 (edited) no, he definitely means the mafia. But it's specifically no talking between the mafia, in private, during the day. That make more sense? eg: (in a hypothetical game) During the day, everyone can talk in thread, and only in thread. We all make posts and votes in thread. Mafia is not allowed to talk in the mafia PM. During the night, only the mafia can talk in their PM, to decide on their factional kill and their role targets. No one is allowed to talk in thread. Edited June 20, 2012 by Manix Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I dunno. To me, that seems to defeat the purpose of mafia being a team. I mean communication in secret is one thing, but mafia know eachother's identity, which is more than we can say for town (unless mason, neighbor, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaoz Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 Stop Crying Psych Minimafia didn't allow the mafia to talk in their PM during the day. Also I think this kind of discussion would be better suited for the HQ thread, whether the mafia should be allowed to daytalk or the town allowed to nighttalk is not exactly helpful information for the player, it's rules that change the way the game is played (which will probably mean there are things you should/shouldn't do, which in turn would be acceptable for this thread). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naglfar Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 no thread nighttalk/no day mafiatalk makes sense in flavour and forces individuals to think for themselves as well as encouraging everyone to pay attention when it counts, going to try it in raocow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) stop fucking namekilling i'm not going to reference ongoing games in here so they don't count at the moment, but the trend i've been seeing is ridiculous and it needs to stop. it's not a viable strategy, it only makes some players not want to play and it's poor sportsmanship. yeah i understand why you might do it but it's really not very fair. from now on i'm going to follow paperblade's advice and all games that i host will be anonymous OR have n0s because even though i despise n0s at least scum can get an investigation in on a good player so they actually have a fucking reason to kill them if they end up having a good role or something i'm not even that great of a player and otherwise i'd be okay with the rep i guess if it meant i actually got to play the game. again, i'm not counting ongoing games right now, but i'd like to actually live past n2 as town if that's not too much to ask. if you have a REASON for killing me, like if i've claimed a power role and/or i have ~important information~ etc then yeah, i don't care. that's just what mafia does, they want to get rid of power roles. the players here that i would personally consider good don't deserve to die early because you're scared. you won't grow as a player if you won't stand to challenge yourself. ALSO, skilled players aren't any more likely to roll a power role than anyone else. no i'm not going to point on names but it is 2am and i'm kind of irritated. and i recommend more protective roles on 'big-name' players because i don't see that happen enough. Edited June 23, 2012 by adiosToreador Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 also this didn't come out of nowhere, i was kind of in a conversation with someone and let's say i'm just a bit frustrated with the attitude of some players here Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) General best scum killing strategy for NOC: N1 - Player who looks towniest at the end of Day 1, and had the most accurate reads N2 until town starts racking up clears - Players with the best reads OR players who seem to have important power roles and can't be dealt with by lynch After town starts racking up clears - Cleared townies, with priority on players with better reads Most of the time good players fit the criterias of "look the towniest" or "have the most accurate reads". Namekilling is only actually a bad strategy if the doc nameprotects. For some reason, SF's scum does the former all the time but SF's doctors don't do the latter. I wouldn't say don't namekill, I'd say don't be dumb if you're a protective role. Edited June 23, 2012 by Prims Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 well namekilling is okay sometimes in certain circumstances but i'm tired of seeing lack of creativity in scumkills lately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prims Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 People should just start namekilling different players. I 100% endorse all Blitz policy N1 kills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 (edited) People should just start namekilling different players. I 100% endorse all Blitz policy N1 kills that isn't nice Prims, especially when there was no name killing in Shining force mafia General best scum killing strategy for NOC: N1 - Player who looks towniest at the end of Day 1, and had the most accurate reads that would be you, unless you are mafia Edited June 23, 2012 by Cap'n Flint Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Percivalé Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 i said ongoing games don't count yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Scumnori obviously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 i said ongoing games don't count yet time for name killing is over and everyone knows my alignment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Really, best thing to do is kill some townie who hasn't said much. Half the time they're a power role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 SFM is different because Bizz was like KILL ME AT YOUR OWN RISK and I was mafia and hate namekilling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 SFM is different because Bizz was like KILL ME AT YOUR OWN RISK and I was mafia and hate namekilling same here mate Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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