Rate the Unit, Day 37: Nino

[Galenforcer]

There isn't much of a problem training people, it's just "why do that when my dudes can win right now while Nino continues to grind up more turns?"

[xblade]

just a question. if nino was switched with erk, then would you train her

[eclipse]

I dunno, I can find a way to feed her a few kills, somehow. Usually, it's because some idiot or other activated Mercy on an enemy.

[Parrhesia]

just a question. if nino was switched with erk, then would you train her

No because personality, but she'd be outstanding. Nino's bases/growths are exceptional for her level. It's just that they're still woefully inadequate THIS late in the game.

Erk would be the worst unit in the game.

[Lord Raven]

Fallacy of false analogy. Sorry, but if you're going to want to convince anyone of your position, you'll have to do a heck of a lot better.

yeah ok mr 9.9, calling her an EXP sponge because of her low level missing the fact that 66% of her joining time doesn't really help her in the slightest and 17% is iffy.

The two examples you quoted are from Serenes Forest members, one of which was Emperor Donny himself; hardly representative of a typical S-Rank run, wouldn't you say? Besides, there's an inherent bias in your position: if you think the best course of action is to go heavy on the experience early, and then ease up later on, I could say the exact opposite.

stop calling him emperor donny, not everyone hops on him. considering he makes gameplay decisions that make a lot of sense i think it's worth learning shit from him

The most correct approach, as usual, is a middle-ground approach: most people aren't going to be reaching dondon-levels of perfection during the earlygame, and Nino saves many players from a headache and a half against the most challenging rank of all.

mr god dictating the most correct approach to things

Please tone down the flamboyant language, thank you.

Swearing is flamboyant? nobody RNG abused and nonsense, its not a hard concept to grasp based on my post, also i doubt you are even offended by my "flamboyant language"

Not in my experience. But if you want to use dondon as the archetype for a "normal S-Rank run," then I suppose you're entitled to your (rather bizarre) standard.

I fail to see how Nino is much different than any other underleveled unit theorycrafting or not, considering that's exactly the concept that Bal and dondon ended up following. On top of the fact that even a Level 14 Nino can't have a field day with those armored knights because she lacks the durability + i doubt she can do more than 25 damage to 50 HP generals (and they ream her in return).

Yeah because nino helping the experience rank by her contributions in one chapter means she's invaluable for 5* experience. Meaning 9.9, better than every other unit in the game who had the ability to contribute over an entire game what Nino was unable to do for an entire game + tinking a ton of magic enemies in 2/6 chapters she's in (Cog and VoD), getting murdered in 1/6 chapters (Final), literally unable to do anything in 1/6 chapters (the Kishuna one), and generally not doing much to help in 1/6 chapters. The theorycrafting is fairly straightforward; if you tink most enemies in two chapters, get murdered in one mercilessly, and then the last one being a haven of EXP for every single unit (not just Nino), then Nino's contributions are neither unique nor necessary. Therefore, 9.9/10 is fucking ridiculous from someone who I can tell clearly knows what he's talking about.

Nino does get pushed up a couple spots in ranked play because she can contribute more than fuckboys like wallace and wil, but all she's getting is around 10-12 levels when many times it's a surplus as is.

[Terrador]

2/10

Recruits Jaffar, has chip damage, and can be used as an EXP sink and/or deathshield. Better than Wallace and Wil, but... not by much.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Terrador

[Junkhead]

Not really.

Have you tried to recruit Wallace?

Wallace. Can take a hit. Doesn't have to be from the Sniper carrying a Silver Bow.

[Smiley Jim]

If Nino joined in Chapter 14 or at least fucking anywhere before Chapter 28, then she might be useful.

Yeah, her bases are awesome for a Lv5 mage, but relative to Ch28(x) enemies, they are basically gutter leaves. And that's an apt way of putting it, especially since someone like dondon would say something worse. On offense, she has 7mag/11spd, which gives 12atk/10AS with Fire, 15atk/8AS with Thunder, and 17atk/4AS with Elfire. This is BEYOND bad. She doubles basically nothing(except like knights, and she can only do that with Thunder)and her damage, while hitting res, is sub-par even with Elfire. While 50mag/60spd growths are good, they don't change the fact that her combat is literally the Atari 2600 E.T. of the group. And DYK that Nino needs to be 20/5 on average to match Pent's base mag, and she needs to be 20/0 to match his AS base while she has Thunder equipped.

Her durability is just so horrid. 19HP/4def gets OHKO'd by 23 atk, and many enemies in BBD and NoF actually reach or exceed this, and 55HP/15def growths DO NOT help this issue. To give out an idea on how bad it can get, wyvern riders OHKO her until 10/0 on average. Again, comparing to Pent, Nino needs to be 20/6 just to have comparable durability to him, and he still wins anyway due to his +3 def support. Her magic durability isn't any prettier at base, with 7 res. While unpromoted magi really can't threaten her THAT badly(Nosferatu shamans still 2HKO until 12/0), sages OHKO her without pure water until 12/0, and Luna druids OHKO her until 15/0 regardless of how much PW she uses.

I don't really have much else to say. Nino is useless. The end.

0

[BBHood217]

If I try to use her in HHM, will my sig be the result?

[Shadow Mir]

Maaaaan.

Counting votes will be a pain in the ass this time.

Please let it not be this crazy with Jaffar and the others later.

Yeah... You said exactly what I'm thinking.

In LTC/efficiency/other parameters runs... Are we that surprised she isn't useful? Level 5 mage who shows up when there are only around 5 chapters left. Bravo IS. I know you like to make growth units for people like me. Especially when they're a cute girl like Nino but c'mon!

Anywho... She gets a 3/10. Some chip damage and recruiting Jaffar is decent enough if you ask me. If you're training her she'll reach level 10 rather quickly if you want to promote her early because Night of Rescue Drop The Lord Next To Sonia exists. You can have her down the Afa's Drops to make her a tiny bit better. Then again many players GOTTA GO FAST so slowing down a tiny bit to level up cute little Nino isn't high on the priorities list. :<

Also... Why do 0/10 count? The very fact that a unit like Nino exists automatically makes her TINY bit useful so why are 0/10 allowed? I mean... She can hold stuff if your inventory is getting full and, as much as pains me to say it, a scapegoat to distract an enemy or two to bait and break enemy formations. >_>

As much as I hate to say it, I'd say that even in a casual run, she's not really worth the trouble. If this wasn't HHM discussion, I might have gone easy on her, but...

That may be but perhaps they can at least be changed to 1's or something?

It's just odd claiming that a unit has absolutely no use in a STRATEGY game like FE. >_>

Maybe, but then there's stuff like Wallace and Karla... Yeah, I'd say whatever zeros they get are well-deserved, considering that the former requires you to miss out on Geitz (and has a tendency to go Leeroy Jenkins, dying in the process before you can recruit him), and the latter requires you to raise Bartre, who we all know is god-awful, to level 5 promoted...

Edited January 26, 2012 by Metal King Slime

[Excellen Browning]

0/10 because she's the biggest detriment to your team in the game.

Also votes that deviate more than 5 points from the median or mean should be ignored in the rating to not make stupid trolls win.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Daigoji Excellen

[Anouleth]

Basically, this. It's notably harder (but I still think feasible...YES CLIPSEY I PROMISED YOU....I WILL DO THIS IN MY S RANK RUN) to train Nino in CoD, and 0 XP chapters (some of which....Value of Life and probably 19xx in particular...give nice experience) diminshing her benefit of EXP rank padding. When trained, though, she is the boss combat-wise; absolutely amazing and everything I'd want from a sage (alright, except staff rank).

Now if only combat wasn't so easy to get in FE7...

Surely any benefits to combat she accrues when trained are cancelled out by being a negative impact on combat initially?

[Sasori]

I'm givng her a 2.5/10.

I must admit i've always disliked Nino even when she was still extremely populair. I've always thought training her was way too hard and her sweet personality annoyed me. I trained her last time and I must admit she is pretty good when trained.

The problem is that she is only good for a very short amount of time and the leads she has on Erk and Pent are overkill. The earlier mage's will perform fine at endgame so there isn't any reason to train Nino.

[Refa]

OK. I have dealt with your ratings for so long.

Let me tell you one of the inner workings of the Fire Emblem community.

PEMN.

Personal Experience Means Nothing.

That's right. Anything you gain from a unit means nothing. Personal Experience when doing things like rating is like Opinions in science. You cannot support something with Personal Experience.

You do know that's it's a bit ridiculous to start spouting PEMN when the quote in question does not in fact say anything about personal experience?

And, I see dondon coming around the corner.

shitty loli mage 0/10. There you have it, the supreme amount of insight that you can only get from dondon's comments.

If those 9.9s are counted, count this:

0/10.

if not, I give her 1/10 for reasons stated.

WOOOOOW. What a radical change. A 9.9 and a 0/10 would still rate better than a 1/10. Do you not understand the concept of math? Your worse rating is better than your higher rating when you take into account the 9.9.

0/10. If that doesn't count, then 1/10.

She's unpromoted and has low bases with great growths. But joins very late and it's not worth training her.

ARGH, you guys. Why do you keep doing this? 2 0/10s + and 1 9.9/10 are STILL higher than 2 1/10s. ProTip: When your rating depends on the higher rating of someone else, make the divergence more than 1 so that you can actually make a difference.

0/10 because she's the biggest detriment to your team in the game.

Also votes that deviate more than 5 points from the median or mean should be ignored in the rating to not make stupid trolls win.

HOORAY FOR DEMOCRACY

Anyways, I'm going to be rating Nino, fully accounting for all of my bias'. x^0, with x equating to whatever my biased rating (or yours, should you feel inclined to use this model) of Nino is.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Refa

[Darros]

Negative 1 out of ten for having like no value and because I really disliker her.

But if you don't want to count that, zero.

[Parrhesia]

WOOOOOW. What a radical change. A 9.9 and a 0/10 would still rate better than a 1/10. Do you not understand the concept of math?

ProTip: When your rating depends on the higher rating of someone else, make the divergence more than 1 so that you can actually make a difference.

GIVE ME A NUMBER LESS THAN ZERO.

GO ON, I DARE YOU.

And no, negatives count as zeros, as expressly pointed out earlier.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Furetchen

[arvilino]

She has very little chance of contributing anything meaningful to a run beyond EXP for an S-rank(and even then in HHM due to CoD being all magic users she's not going to get as much as she could in other modes).

As a magic user she's near useless due to her late joining time and low stats, Since the vast majority of your magic users will be able to use a Physic Staff every non-combat turn (and other high ranked staves that give alot of EXP) which means she can't even catch up to their levels. So even a trained Nino is going to be far behind Pent,Lucius,Serra,Priscilla because once she promotes she won't be be gaining nearly as much EXP as your other magic users can.

0/10

[Lightli]

Ah, Nino . Ridiculously adorable, can get very strong, and oh so huggable on account of the previously mentioned adorable factor

Of course, this doesn't change the fact that she's beyond pathetic on even NM, and this being HECTOR HARD MODE...

/ 10

(that would be 0/10

[Refa]

GIVE ME A NUMBER LESS THAN ZERO.

GO ON, I DARE YOU.

And no, negatives count as zeros, as expressly pointed out earlier.

Then just rate her 0 and be done with it. There's no point pretending that you're giving her a lower score when in fact it helps her rating more than the 1/10. A variation of 1 is meaningless, if he increased the higher end score to a 2/3, it would've actually made more (not enough of, but still) of a difference.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Refa

[arvilino]

Then just rate her 0 and be done with it. There's no point pretending that you're giving her a lower score when in fact it helps her rating more than the 1/10. A variation of 1 is meaningless, if he increased the higher end score to a 2/3, it would've actually made more (not enough of, but still) of a difference.

What if they wanted to rate Nino 1/10 in the first place though? Technically "0/10 if 9.9 is counted", 4.45/10, is the closest they can get to 1/10.

Edited January 26, 2012 by arvilino

[Refa]

What if they wanted to rate Nino 1/10 in the first place though? Technically "0/10 if 9.9 is counted", 4.45/10, is the closest they can get to 1/10.

Then rate her a 1/10. The 1 point difference between the two is trivial at best when it's all averaged out.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Refa

[Kngt_Of_Titania]

Surely any benefits to combat she accrues when trained are cancelled out by being a negative impact on combat initially?

In EHM S-rank runs, it's mostly about feeding her experience for the XP rank. Her becoming a nice combat unit as a result is more a side-benefit than the actual purpose. Of course, as Horace will also tell you, FFO arena abuse can eliminate the need for her.

For HHM, training her is...a dubious venture. But I find it hard to rate her 0/10 or 1/10 just for her sheer potential. 4/10 may be too kind, tbh.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Kngt_Of_Titania

[Geriba]

I think she means your trolling, as you used to call yourself Jaffar. You can't seriously belive she deserves to be above all the other units in the game (except whatever else you'd give a 9.9 or 10). I mean, you and Tang helped create the gamefaqs S rank tier lists for fe7 and did you ever try to push Nino up that high? I think your rating should be discounted based on the improbability of your views changing this much over just a year or two.

You and I both know that discounting votes based on "probable trolling" is a slippery slope. Besides, the most ridiculous part of this topic in my eyes is far and away the influx of 0/10 votes, as if Nino seriously contributes less than Wil.

[Rewjeo]

Wil has a couple pegs he can hit that don't involve him replacing someone better than him. Not many people play Ranked, so to most people Nino has 0 value.

[Elieson]

Besides, the most ridiculous part of this topic in my eyes is far and away the influx of 0/10 votes, as if Nino seriously contributes less than Wil.

I interpret scores like that attributed to having to get her to join your team. Wil is free dmg for his joining chapter, as well as Lyn mode, which has many forced deployment parts, forcing Wil. Nino needs to be recruited before contributing to your team in her recruitment chapter.

Or, Wil can shop for you while Kent/Sain/Lyn fight. That is contributing, even if it isnt involving combat.

I would think that is why she is receiving scores lower than Wil.