RJWalker Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 How good is Horsea anyway? Kingdra is completely unavailable until post E4. It does come early (sort of) and Seadra's stats are pretty good but it's movepool is what you'd expect from a mono-water. All Water and Ice. Stab Surf is great and all but is that enough? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Seadra has 45 base special defence. That's pretty bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 I don't think that defenses should be too much of a concern when talking about a completely offense based Pokemon. Sure they should be considered but not too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 should sevii island 1-3 pkmn be penaltied from making us go to them? Or were the island mandatory? I think they can be skipped Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 1st) Taking psychic TM matters because its pretty damn good move many Pkmn would like for coverage. The point of coverage is to make your team able to hit a lot of types for super-effective damage, not just one specific Pokemon. In particular, you should only bother with non-stab moves when you don't have a Pokemon of the move's type. Raising Jynx, and giving the Psychic TM to Lapras or whatever not only sandbags Jynx, but hurts your team (since Lapras will miss some OHKO's due to not having STAB and lower special attack). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Having both Jynx and Lapras sandbags you in more ways than one a priori I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Lapras doesn't want Psychic, but it might want TB. Starmie, on the other hand might want it and Electabuzz/Magmar may too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 But do you see my point? I'll make it simple, so there can be no confusion. Jynx will always get TM29 if in play. This is not a point against it, because TM29 will always be used, and Jynx uses Psychic better than anyone else*, especially non-psychic types who don't get STAB. They only need the coverage when you don't have a Psychic-type in play. * Actually, Abra uses it better, but it fills the same niche as Jynx, so they're never in competition with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Kadabra as well as Hypno get natural Psychic early enough to not really need the TM that badly, while Slowpoke can be caught in the wild already knowing the move, which is when you can evolve it. I disagree with what you say about non-psychics never getting Psychic, though. Agatha's ghosts are a threat to psychics most of the time since they sometimes fail to OHKO the Gengars with Psychic but Shadow Ball does exactly that to their frail defence. Clefable doesn't fear Shadow Ball and could even Calm Mind up. Its Return also does good physical damage in the game so it can function as a mixed attacker. Teaching Jynx Psychic seems like an obvious action to carry out, but that doesn't mean there's no competition for the Psychic TM, and Jynx is likely to find itself in the same party with, say, Exeggutor, who has trouble functioning without it (Jynx can do many things just fine with just the Ice Punch). The argument "if it exists it has to take X TM, so it can't be penalised for taking X TM" is also not one I can agree to because it leads to the conclusion that somebody has to take an important TM in order to exist (Exeggutor loses even more value here). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Titamon Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 I don't see why we're even considering giving Psychic to Lapras anyway. By the time Lapras is even available Poison-types are rare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 It's obvious. THey want to counter fighting types with Lapras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 I cba to read through the whole thread, so could someone explain why Magikarp is so low? I know this is gen 3 and all, but Gyarados is still pretty good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted October 24, 2012 Author Share Posted October 24, 2012 probobly because it's a pain to raise, even though it comes early. But yeah, I think it should be right above shellder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 24, 2012 Share Posted October 24, 2012 You can catch a lv. 25 Gyarados with a Super Rod (in Vermilion at least and probably some other places too), so it should definitely be higher on the list. Dragon Dance at L50 might be a bit too late though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Testing some things in a draft. -Low Kick!Mankey wants grinding to fight Brock. -Pikachu is pretty good, natural TB and a decent amount of cheap tms to use. -Charmander is pretty damn good, it just falters a little midgame. It's only problem is that it wants rare TMs/move tutors. Spearow is very good early-midgame and is decent lategame with drill peck/steel wing/return. Drop mankey one or two spots. Raise Pikachu Drop Charmander a few slots. Raise Spearow, since it's pretty akin to RSE Tailow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 what are you smoking, mankey does not need grinding for brock unless you're trying to beat him at like L5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 what are you smoking, mankey does not need grinding for brock unless you're trying to beat him at like L5 Mankey appears at lv 5 at the highest. It is literally impossible for him to be any higher without grinding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 26, 2012 Share Posted October 26, 2012 The grinding is minimal at worst, honestly. Just switch him out and burn those Caterpies with your Charmander a couple of times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 the point is, i think you are asking too much if you expect any pokemon to be able to beat brock (or for that matter, complete the game) "without grinding" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 (edited) Of course. But you want to do as little grinding as possible. What's a reasonable level for Mankey to be? 10? That's 875 exp needed. Even after beating up every trainer in the forest, switching Mankey in every time, is only 478 experience. You'd need about 14 random battles, 28 if you switch-train. It's far better to stuff 100% of the experience you get into your starter, so you can focus on training the water-killer for the next section. Viridian forest is pretty much the worst place, in exp/min, to grind. In fact, the further you go, the more efficient it is to grind. The more of early game you can skip while obtaining minimal experience, the better. Edited October 27, 2012 by Minor Baldo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 It learns Low Kick at L6, which a party of Charmander and Mankey should cooperate towards without entering a single random encounter. Against Brock, Charmander burns Geodude (who only has Tackle), and Mankey can take on Onix at any level assuming it has Low Kick. It resists Rock Tomb and Onix's attack is so low that its other moves aren't a threat in any way, even with a level difference. It doesn't even get Screech like it did in RBY. You can beat the game without facing any random encounters, Viridian Forest isn't anything mandatory either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted October 27, 2012 Author Share Posted October 27, 2012 Rose some stuff, dropped some stuff. Also, what about those no-evo mons with good bases. Kanga Tauros Scyther Pinser Hitmonlee Hitmonchan Magmar And add Exeggcute. These mons seem to be a bit low, since they are salvageable. Unlike Paras, etc. But, I'm tired, so I won't elaborate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 27, 2012 Share Posted October 27, 2012 you are aware that changing list on whim will end up bad right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 The changes are based on an actual playthrough, rather than glorified guesswork. According to this thing, a lv. 6 Mankey is 4HKO'ing lv. 14 Onix and getting 2HKO'd in return. I'd test it in game, but my cart is in use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 28, 2012 Share Posted October 28, 2012 its kind of a tier list thing things are talked first Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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