Espinosa Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) It's a strange list if you read some of the entries, like: both of Bulbasaur's STABs What's its other STAB? Poisonpowder? Or how Thick Club is assumed on Cubone in spite of how absurdly difficult it is to attain one; being pure ground is no longer cool when Gastlies and Koffings have Levitate and without Thick Club Cubone is just a subpar ground-type. Sandslash and Geodude are about even in my book. Geodude has the better typing to check more Pokemon types and STAB for rock-type moves (good in a game with an early Rock Slide tutor) but Sandshrew is faster and enjoys an earlier evolution. Edited October 19, 2012 by Espinosa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 Citizen of serenes, I give you the wtfuckery http://www.smogon.co...rlg_ingametiers Aside from a few oddities, that seems pretty fair to me. Also, the Pokemon are only placed Alphabetically in each tier and not any other order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 I personally like how they hype Jynx against rockets. Its funny because her only psychic offense is the Psychic TM. Being tier higher than Mr.Mime is like icing on the cake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) Mr Mime's movepool is Psychic type attacks and Thunderbolt TM. Jynx has Ice Type attacks and Psychic TM. Both have a great support movepool. Jynx's S.Atk and speed is marginally better. I would say that Jynx is better than Mr.Mime but by a ever insignifcant amount. And due to their tiers being arranged alphabettically, you never know the actual placement. Jynx might be very low on the High Tier and Mime might be very high on the middle tier. They think that the placement within the tier is inconsequential and I agree with them on that matter. And if you take a closer look, the tier list there and here is quite similar. The differences are due to there being more tiers here (Top, Hi, Mid-hi, Mid, Mid-lo, Lo, Bottom, Crap) compared to just 4 (High, Middle, Low, Bottom) If you combine some of the tiers in this site (Hi and Mid-hi, Mid and Mid-lo, etc) the tiers are almost the same aside from a few odd cases. They really aren't that different. My guess? You saw a couple of really strange cases (and there are some really strange cases in that tier list) and proceeded to decry the whole thing. Edited October 19, 2012 by Ranger Jack Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) If I see a otherwise reasonable or even flat out amazing article that justifies pedophilia by teaching kids world is cold, I sure as hell will proceed to decry the whole thing. Also Mr.Mime does have noteworthy availability lead and Magical leaf for offence as well as superior ability and the fact it wants purchase tms in comparison to one offs. Superior defensive typing is neat too. Edited October 19, 2012 by Sho.M.the.Tits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 ... why would mr. mime care about defensive typing jynx likes being ice type for offense more than it doesn't like being ice type for defense (but anyway i agree that mr. mime is probably in the wrong tier) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 (edited) If I see a otherwise reasonable or even flat out amazing article that justifies pedophilia by teaching kids world is cold, I sure as hell will proceed to decry the whole thing. Wow, you went from odd tier placement to pedophilia? You need to calm down dude. And just so you know, I agree that there are some really strange placements in that list. But for the most part, that list is extremely similar to the one here. It only seems different because of the difference in the number of tiers. Edited October 19, 2012 by Ranger Jack Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 dondon) he might care about his defensive typing for he has neat special defence. This is kinda relevant when duking it out with Blane. jack) How can I calm down when I am not mad? I am merely giving an example I pulled out of my ass in 5 seconds tops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted October 19, 2012 Share Posted October 19, 2012 A very poor example then. Maybe you shouldn't have 'pulled it out your ass in 5 seconds tops'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Also Mr.Mime does have noteworthy availability lead and Magical leaf for offence as well as superior ability and the fact it wants purchase tms in comparison to one offs. Superior defensive typing is neat too. I don't get why taking the Psychic TM is a big deal. It's pointless raising a second Psychic-type in efficiency, and it's not going to do a whole lot sitting in your bag unused. Furthermore, the TM Mime wants, Thunderbolt, costs a cool 80 grand. You want to fight as few non-necessary trainers as possible, so money's tight. It would be massively inefficient to buy more than one, and surely an electric-type would get first dibs on it? Frankly I could see a tier difference between Jynx and Mr. Mime, since the former fills two niches. It depends on whether Mr. Mime can fill the electric-type niche as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 ^ It's not exactly guaranteed that one would be training an electric-type. The list as a whole isn't bad, but looking into the details makes you aware of some strange choices, like Gyarados (Magikarp) being in Low all of a sudden, or Nidorans being in different tiers. Not surprisingly since it's Smogon, the most consistent issue is how some Pokemon are evaluated (consciously or not) in relation to how they are traditionally seen in competitive context. For example, Abra's movepool is rated more highly than Flareon's (who gets 'shallow'), even though the latter gets fire-type STAB, Dig, Shadow Ball, and all the normal-type moves that hit pretty hard with that attack stat. Abra just gets Psychic-type moves and Shock Wave, though it doesn't need much else (that's the strength of its typing and stats though, not its movepool). It's essentially competitive meta inertia carried over to ingame analyses, since when people say "Flareon got no moves" they usually mean moves like Earthquake and whatnot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) Is Mr. Mime's electric niche really all that awesome though? You can save yourself the $80,000 and stick with Psybeam because most of the Flying-types will be Zubats or Golbats (midgame has a lot of Rockets in it, from the Game Corner to the graveyard and ending with Silph Co.) After you've cleared out Silph Co, you're pretty much done with the Electric-weak Pokes outside of the journey to Cinnabar.. STAB Psybeam has 97.5 BP vs Thunderbolt's 95, so Psybeam is still hitting harder than super effective Thunderbolt anyways unless it's against a Water-type (which aren't that common until late game). It really misses the awesome coverage that Jynx' Ice-type gives it (if you'd like some evidence, just ask), while Thunderbolt+Magical Leaf isn't really helping it in any of the key fights, except for maybe Lorelei. Yeah, I think Mr.Mime is in the wrong tier as well. It does have an availability lead over Jynx, ...but that's pretty much it. Mr.Mime does have a better performance against Water-types, but only if you empty out your wallet for it. Not to mention Water-types are fairly rare until the swimmers en route to Cinnabar. Also, like Espinosa said, the Smogon list is really inconsistent. For example, they say Pinsir joins late while Ponyta joins mid-game. Yet you get Pinsir before Ponyta (who requires 7 badges to get). While I don't think it's wise to disregard it completely, not everything in it should be taken as law. Edited October 20, 2012 by Piss Sick Lawyer Lucina Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 1st) Taking psychic TM matters because its pretty damn good move many Pkmn would like for coverage. 2nd) If you do not want to buy the TM you can always use Thunder. Has about same power as stab Ice punch... 3rd) Not that it exactly needs it because... 4th) Jynx has awesome coverage (as oppose to Mr.Mime)? Bitch please this is kanto. With Dark types not existing and Steel being Magnemite, Psychic type move alone has perfect coverage outside magnemite Family and other Psychics (who aren't exactly common and stab Punch isn't any better than Thunder anyway) 5th) All Ice stab does is more damage to Grass (almost always poison type so Irrelevant), Ground (generally low spe. def causes Psychic stab be plenty anyway) Flying (Thunder says hello anyway, hell even Shock wave) And Dragons (so one trainer's 3 pkmn) 6th) Speaking of Abra family, Mr.Mime has exact same movepool + potential better Electric stab + trade exp. while losing in availability (slightly) and Special Attack (20/35 in comparison to Kadabra/Alakazam) to give an idea about how absurd them having Tier worth diference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) Said one trainer's 3 Pokemon are probably bigger threats than the rest of the game. I partially agree with you. There isn't a whole tier's difference between Jynx and Mr,Mime but the smogon tiers could very well be case of Jynx being extremely low in the High Tier while Mr.Mime being very high in the Middle tier. Smogon's tier philosophy is that placement within the tier is completely irrevelant and I agree with them for the most part. Edited October 20, 2012 by Ranger Jack Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 (edited) considering those 3 take absurd damage atk power 240 to 61/70 bulk and 480 to 91/100) from unstabbed Blizzard I would hardly call them that hard. Edited October 20, 2012 by Sho.M.the.Tits Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Lance uses 2 Dragonairs and 1 Dragonite in FR/LG so only one of them is a threat (and Outrage is unlikely to be the strongest move you will have taken by the end of the game). Anyway, ice-typing is useful against the Nidoroyals in Giovanni's gym as well as Rival's grass-type. Most importantly though, Jynx is cool with having Ice Punch without ever travelling to Power Plant or facing 70% accuracy. Shock Wave is not enough to OHKO Gyarados or any of Lorelei's Pokemon before some Calm Minds, and you better be using Psychic there anyway. I guess one could say that Mr Mime doesn't require the Psychic TM due to learning Psychic naturally, but still, a difference of a whole tier is unnecessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Lance uses 2 Dragonairs and 1 Dragonite in FR/LG so only one of them is a threat (and Outrage is unlikely to be the strongest move you will have taken by the end of the game). Anyway, ice-typing is useful against the Nidoroyals in Giovanni's gym as well as Rival's grass-type. Most importantly though, Jynx is cool with having Ice Punch without ever travelling to Power Plant or facing 70% accuracy. Shock Wave is not enough to OHKO Gyarados or any of Lorelei's Pokemon before some Calm Minds, and you better be using Psychic there anyway. I guess one could say that Mr Mime doesn't require the Psychic TM due to learning Psychic naturally, but still, a difference of a whole tier is unnecessary. ...as opposed to Psychic? Did you perhaps mean to say other than Nidoroyals (aka the special tanks Rhyhornx2 and Dugtrio)? other than that I see no reason to argue this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Espinosa Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 We need to assume Jynx gets Psychic first (a clever enough idea, but not compulsory really since we don't know whom else you're training). I'd probably chicken out of facing the speedy Dugtrio when I have crap defence and use something with a water-type move against Rhyhorns instead. Jynx can take Water Pulse btw, but it's probably not worth a moveslot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Of you were not assuming Jynx gets Psychic. Now it makes sense XD (why do I feel bad about not figuring that out after whining my ass of about "needing" it in the first place) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Guys, Jynx and Mime are in same tier here. Jynx just happens to be good in bossfights, and nice everywhere else. Mime is too, but wants TB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) Yeah the topic kinda derailed from the tiers on this site to theo nes on smogon, which as I pointed out are quite similar and only seem different because there are more tiers there and the Pokemon are only arranged aplhabetically. Back on topic, I seriously question Goldeen being higher than the likes of Jolteon, Electabuzz, etc. What exactly does it have? A pure water type that is physically oriented. As Seaking, it has a half decent 92 base attack. It's best Physical attack is what, Horn Attack? It gets Megahorn at the super late lvl 69. It's special attack is a really bad 65. Even then, it's moves are the usual Water type moves and Ice Type TMs. Compared to Electabuzz which is available in the Power Plant which would be late into the mid game I think. It has decent attack, good special attack and a good movepool too. It gets both Psychic and Brick Break and also starts with Thunder Punch which great. While Zapdos who is also found in the Power PLant outclasses him completely, Electabuzz is still a decent choice and is better than Seaking. Edited October 21, 2012 by Ranger Jack Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasori Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) So Magmar stats are decent while Electabuzz's stats are above avarage? Doesn't Magmar beats or ties him in everything except a few points in speed? Edited October 21, 2012 by Sasori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 Dunno anything about Seaking, that's Sho's favorite goldfish.Electabuzz could rise, but so can Magmar too-since it gets a similar movepool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I do not know why goldeen is up there honestly. Anyway it does get Secret Power/Return/Facade/Flail to use that atk stat Also considering the pure power of water moves/Blizzard, 65 is manageable. Its 5 more than what Gyarados has and Stab Surf from it is no joke either. Honestly thou I refuse to talk about Goldeen because I am far too biassed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 (edited) Dropped Goldeen, alot. Also.. WHAT ABOUT BOOMER MAGMAR RISING! No really, I find it to be decent. Edited October 21, 2012 by The Gentleman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.