7/26- Ike

[Remnant Sage]

Nope. There's no infobox stating why.

[Brave Lord]

any videos of the DLC ?

[Othin]

Nope. There's no infobox stating why.

So what does it say to indicate that it's intentional? Are you sure it's not just acknowledging it with no indication of whether or not it was supposed to happen?

[Remnant Sage]

The section states what every enemy and ally is equipped with on Hard and Lunatic. In the main walkthrough section, Vier has the Brave Axe, but Silver Axe I and Silver Axe II in Hard/Lunatic map section. Interestingly, Nintendo's guide has a funny mistake that states that Vier should have a Silver Axe. If necessary, I can scan the relevant pages.

[Othin]

The section states what every enemy and ally is equipped with on Hard and Lunatic. In the main walkthrough section, Vier has the Brave Axe, but Silver Axe I and Silver Axe II in Hard/Lunatic map section. Interestingly, Nintendo's guide has a funny mistake that states that Vier should have a Silver Axe. If necessary, I can scan the relevant pages.

That just means the guide is accurately observing the results. It means nothing about whether or not the results are supposed to happen.

I myself recorded the same changes in this site's Enemy Data section. You might as well say, "That's not a glitch. Based on Othin's guide, the game replaces the Brave Axe with forged Silver Axes on purpose." Neither source has anything to do with developer intent, and therefore neither source can be used to draw any conclusions about it.

Edited July 26, 2012 by Othin

[Remnant Sage]

I doubt it's a glitch since it doesn't result in unexpected/unstable behaviour. If it weren't intentional, then it's more likely a weapon ID error (bug) since it's affecting every Brave Axe.

[Murdok Dracul]

You can't tell, but I'm drooling over this game.

Want. Want. Want.

Also, I'm glad that even if Paris doesn't have Aether, at least Ike does. And as for the rest of the skills, we can still give him as many other-class skills as we want by Change Sealing him, so I don't think it's much of a problem.

[Book of Ereshkigal]

I doubt it's a glitch since it doesn't result in unexpected/unstable behaviour. If it weren't intentional, then it's more likely a weapon ID error (bug) since it's affecting every Brave Axe.

How do you know it replacing braves was expected? Not all glitches are unstable, either.

[Othin]

I doubt it's a glitch since it doesn't result in unexpected/unstable behaviour. If it weren't intentional, then it's more likely a weapon ID error (bug) since it's affecting every Brave Axe.

Glitch, bug, same difference: it's clearly not intentional or expected. Stability has nothing to do with it.

And yes, it's an error with how the weapons are classified. That's why I called it the Brave Axe glitch: the weapon isn't classified correctly and gives incorrect output at times.

By the way, Paris does have a conversation with Ike in LvD F. It's only a couple of lines, though, and I can't take a clear picture of the dialogue. Anyone able to record it for translation?

[Remnant Sage]

Transcribed it while commuting.

アイク：

迷いは捨てる。俺の前に立ちふさがるなら容赦はせん！

パリス：

受けて立とう。・・・その姿、その動、まさしく俺が求めてもたものだ。

ずっと目指した英雄そのものと戦えるとはこんな善びはない。いくぞっ！

I'm pretty sure I messed up a kanji or 2, but that should give a good idea. Those two seem a little too happy fighting...

[Sky Soldier]

Ike: Get rid of your doubt. To stand in my way like this, I won't hold back.

Paris: I accept your challenge...That stance, those movements, you are most certainly the one I've been looking for. There can be no greater joy than to be able to fight with the hero I've always been trying to be. Let's go!

[Angel Valentine]

Umm is Ike a hero?

[Lord Raven]

Yeah, because his base class in FE9 was meant to resemble a Mercenary and his class in FE10 was a Hero.. and Vanguard had 40 Skl which makes sense cause Heroes generally have 30 Skl, and he could use Swords/Axes like a Hero etc. Ike was meant to based off of the Mercenary -> Hero track in other words.

[VincentASM]

The "hero" in the dialogue isn't a reference to the class (勇者, yuusha, brave/hero), but the fact that Ike is a renowned saviour (英雄, eiyuu, hero/champion).

For reference, Paris also has a similar conversation with Ike in Light versus Dark (Dark Side); it's pretty clear Ike has a special significance to Paris if it wasn't already obvious.

Edited July 27, 2012 by VincentASM

[Original Alear]

EDIT: I've decided to be a little more productive with this post.

Ah man now you're making me type EVEN MORE. Well I kinda hesitated to respond given that the conversation seemed mostly uninterested in this topic (Ike's art and whether it's good/bad) by this point, but here is my post in spoilers if anyone wants to read it.

1) There's nothing wrong with disproportionate characters; the problem here is consistency. The Fire Emblem series has always employed semi-realistic proportions (no chibi, nothing abstract), and Ike himself has had an established design.

2) Your points about evolution and gravity are... rather unusual, let's say. I'm also not sure how they make much sense even if we assume some rather bizarre premises, since other FE characters don't have altered body types and proportions to account for this. Why would Ike be a lone case?

1) I dunno, the number of skinny girls with (relatively speaking to their waist) thunder thighs seems pretty damn high. But jesus christ I'm not an artist nor do I know much about human proportions, so I'm not gonna actually try and knock FE for realistic proportions. But I will again knock it for totally unrealistic and bizarre anatomy: people with animal ears, wings and tails who transform into animals including dragons; and, among those dragons, some can fly despite appearing extremely heavy (I mean, I'm kinda skeptical that something as powerfully built as Dheginsea could keep itself aloft...which Dheggy does. Kurthnaga straight up SWOOPS in to knock out that tower in 3-13). The idea that straight human characters should always need to have realistic proportions, solely because "The Fire Emblem series has always employed semi-realistic proportions" seems pretty absurd to me...why can't a series break its own artistic conventions?

Also, in order to be realistic, proportions should be somewhat diverse. Granted, you have an array of units with varying proportions. But uh, what are the chances that, for example, FE4 would have as many palette-swapped bosses as it does with no apparent relation to each other? Sure there are palette swaps who do have relations to each other (desert twins in FE6-7 and 10).

Oh, and then there's this.

http://s15.postimage...3ux/desktop.png

They couldn't even make 8 original NPC villagers; twin sisters is one thing but those don't have 1 pixel different between them! The proportion demographics in Thracia are really fucked! I'm pretty sure most games in the series have this problem. Meanwhile, in Mother 3 I'm pretty sure you won't run into duplicate NPCs other than ghosts and pigmasks until you start playing as Lucas somewhere around part 5. Oh...and save frogs are kinda duplicates, but they almost all have their own unique flair.

As for established designs, these are done by different artists, so I feel like there's reason to look forward both to new takes and old looks. For my part, I don't hate any of the FE concept art for diverging from the "established design" for that alone - the one I dislike, Micaiah's, I dislike more than anything else because of how her face looks (I don't really feel I can add anything that you haven't already read on that subject). Alm's DLC art is pretty far off from his established design, but I feel like there were many more accolades over that (feel like that happened with Cecilia too). My point here isn't, you should like this art and if you don't you should feel bad, it's just, "it differs from the established design" is a pretty terrible justification, IMO - not to say that because the justification is bad in my eyes, that means your opinion should change.

2) The considerations aren't quite as unusual as you seem to think. In sci-fi, ER Burroughs was wondering (and making erroneous conclusions) about the athletic capabilities a human would have on Mars's lower gravity around a century ago IIRC, and that's pretty far back and a classic (albeit John Carter's flop in theaters; didn't see it anyway). Considering his reputation, I certainly hope that Kim Stanley Robinson at least posed some ideas that aren't completely bogus on what it might be like for 2nd gen martian colonists in the "Mars" trilogy. There are probably fantasy works I've read that at least try to adopt some basic evolutionary concepts, though the only ones that come to mind at the moment more or less fall into the "fantasy-sci-fi pretending to be sci-fi pretending to be fantasy."

Bizarre premises, including altered body types, already more-or-less established in Fire Emblem include: people who transform into dragons, live hundreds of years, use books to throw fireballs, swordsmen that perform somersaulting sword strokes at 2-3 times their body height, and throw axes that curve back to them like boomerangs. And jesus, have you ever read the Osawa manga? The horseslayer the mounted boss under Shagall uses has a BLADE 1-2 times as tall as the guy wielding it is; it puts Guts from Berserk to shame. Humanoids with differing appearances are not particularly bizarre in comparison.

As for why Ike would look so bizarre and others were not...the truth is that I'm not sure I really see Ike's appearance as weird, except comparing the size of his upper leg between FE9 and this art (not considering FE10 art cuz pretty sure they weren't going for that). That's why I didn't say I thought his art was particularly weird in my post, BUT it's ok because other art is really weird. But again, many people with more knowledge of proportions are weighing in otherwise, so I'm not sure I can really argue with them on that, even if my opinion is maintained (I would still argue that the idea that FE characters in FE13, or FE generally, are always significantly better proportioned than this pic of Ike is dubious). It is worth noting that I'm not sure the post I quoted was actually critiquing Ike's art specifically; I was more weighing in there because of the points about the importance/lack of importance of "realistic human anatomy" in FE.

Edited July 28, 2012 by L1049

[Bryan]

Alm's DLC art is pretty far off from his established design, but I feel like there were many more accolades over that

Okay, no, it's not. I may agree with you on other points, but Alm's art is just an updated version of his old art with a new pose.

http://serenesforest.net/media/fe2illust/Arum_Maisen.jpg

http://serenesforest.net/fe13/img/dlc/003.jpg

Alm's art has screws in the exact same place in both of his codpieces.

[Momo]

I feel people are missing the point. Bad proportions, being true to the character, while these are important what matters most is if the final result looks good. Ike's art does not look good.

[Murdok Dracul]

I feel people are missing the point. Bad proportions, being true to the character, while these are important what matters most is if the final result looks good. Ike's art does not look good.

Still, that's only a matter of opinion. I think it does look good. My opinion's obviously vastly outweighed, though.

Okay, no, it's not. I may agree with you on other points, but Alm's art is just an updated version of his old art with a new pose.

http://serenesforest...Arum_Maisen.jpg

http://serenesforest...img/dlc/003.jpg

Alm's art has screws in the exact same place in both of his codpieces.

Wow, he's even using the same sword. I did not notice that.

Edited July 28, 2012 by Murdok Dracul

[Bryan]

Still, that's only a matter of opinion. I think it does look good. My opinion's obviously vastly outweighed, though.

Wow, he's even using the same sword. I did not notice that.

I thought that was the Falchion or something. If it's not, then yes, he's using the same random sword.

[eclipse]

Still, that's only a matter of opinion. I think it does look good. My opinion's obviously vastly outweighed, though.

I have my own expectations when it comes to things like proportion, and Ike's art falls outside of my expectations. I've seen complaints regarding the pose, his head, and his sword arm, all of which I agree with to some extent. If you like it, props to you.

[Murdok Dracul]

I have my own expectations when it comes to things like proportion, and Ike's art falls outside of my expectations. I've seen complaints regarding the pose, his head, and his sword arm, all of which I agree with to some extent. If you like it, props to you.

Yes, I got props! Well, that's all I was lookin' for. I'm done here.

[Lakmé]

any videos of the DLC ?

With Nosferatanking

[Shun One]

With Nosferatanking

Ike said something about Marth at the end there. I can't translate any more than that though

[VincentASM]

Nice, I didn't see this dialogue branch.

Hmm... @33:31

この異世界に来て知ったが。。。

マルスという英雄も同じらしい。

The second line, I think Ike is saying Marth is a hero who fights together with his companions.

The first line could either be a throwaway comment or something more important, but I'm not completely sure what it means or suggests. I *think* Ike is saying he knew "this" after coming to "this other world", which presumably refers to either the DLC world(s) or Krom's world. The second possibility is a bit more exciting, but I'm doubting it at the moment... is there anyone knowledgable who can shed some light?

Edited July 29, 2012 by VincentASM

[Sky Soldier]

Nice, I didn't see this dialogue branch.

Hmm... @33:31

The second line, I think Ike is saying Marth is a hero who fights together with his companions.

The first line could either be a throwaway comment or something more important, but I'm not completely sure what it means or suggests. I *think* Ike is saying he knew "this" after coming to "this other world", which presumably refers to either the DLC world(s) or Krom's world. The second possibility is a bit more exciting, but I'm doubting it at the moment... is there anyone knowledgable who can shed some light?

After this statement, Ike goes on about 'focusing on the individual' versus 'deepening bonds/teamwork' as ways to gain power and says that they are both valid viewpoints (lit. paths to walk), so the first statement is probably referring to that. The second line is 'Marth seems to be the same kind of hero (as me).' perhaps as they've both realized this?

Ike is referring to the DLC world, since Ike clearly says later on, "Are you returning to your world now? If you want, then please let me join with you...etc. etc."

Edited July 29, 2012 by Sky Soldier